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Post by rational on Oct 1, 2014 21:19:24 GMT -5
God is in control every second of the day. When We become ill , it is God's hand that heals us and if it is our time to leave this earth then we will not be healed no matter how hard the medics try to save us. So you believe that it was also god's hand that makes us ill and then, sometimes, heals us? I was looking at a medical book from the 50's that showed children in iron lungs and with leg braces. Can you think of a reason why god would choose to harm people like that? Of course, if the medics do heal the patient then it must have not been gods time for the person to go! I struggle with this kind of reasoning. Falsifiability or refutability of a claim is so important when looking for truth.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 1, 2014 21:59:48 GMT -5
You say you believe he answers prayers. Then you cast doubt by referring to sculduggery around faith healing. Is that enough to stop asking for answers? People give these answers as a reason not to lay hands on the sick. Not to believe for a miracle for their child. Etc doubt and unbelief always follow as defence not to try. I was trying to challenge your thinking further.. I was also half asleep. I think im awake now.
Ok, I think that I will leave at that, because I really do not follow your line of argument. Highlighting the recorded news of dishonesty practiced by some in connection in the area of fath healing in not a deliberate tactic on my part to cast doubt about faith healing in general it is more or less to highlight a possible pit fall.
Okey dokey..if mine is highlighted its a fluke. Dont know how to do that on this bit of technology
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 2, 2014 3:07:33 GMT -5
Nathan, when you were a worker did you believe you were a modern day Apostle ? Yes, I recognized my calling was a modern day apostle= Sent one. I was planning to become a Pentecostal preacher before I met the workers on the island of Guam in 1978. It was through God's revelation I knew the workers were the apostles in the 21st Century so, I became a 2x2 worker/apostl instead a Pentecostal preacher. So now that you are not a worker what happened to the calling to be an apostle ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 3:30:32 GMT -5
It is most interesting that many modern day miracles are claimed to be performed not by Jesus, but by the Virgin Mary, and the claim normally comes from Roman Catholics around the world. Is that due to a religious denominationl connection, one might ask? I agree with everything you said here, partaker (the whole post' not just the little bit above; and think yes, you have been misunderstood subsequently). I personally know of people who have been healed. But I am also very sceptical of many claims, especially those seen by tele-evangelists, and especially where money is involved. I think we should all have a healthy scepticism and not accept any healing claims at face-value. Yes, there are also other powers which can do miracles, this is attested to in the Bible. Some 'miracles' are wishful thinking. Some are deceit and skulduggery. Some are witchcraft. Do we pray for healing from God? Absolutely. I've seen the results of such prayers when medically speaking there was no hope. Does he always heal? No. But then again he's not just some big button in the sky to push for whatever we want. I shudder to think what would happen if he answered all of our prayers all of the time. If Christians always had their prayers answered exactly as they asked they would be the most insufferable, self-righteous, non-compassionate people on earth. The reality is, Christians are still subject to the same fallen world as everybody else. Sometimes God chooses to work a miracle, but I think this is not the 'norm'. Jesus himself never used miracles as an end in themselves, he only used them to prove his authority and point to himself as the one sent by God. Also, God has given us brains, intelligence, skills and knowledge to develop and use. We should be getting out there and using skills and knowledge to improve health and hygiene and cures around the world, not just praying for miraculous intervention. If he's already given us what we need in a practical sense for prevention and cure, why not use them? (I'm not arguing about anything here, just thinking aloud, I'm sure you agree with some of my thoughts here). Are the workers apostles? I don't recall hearing them call themselves such. I would generally reserve the term specifically for those who were in Jesus' direct ministry at the time of the new testament. The workers probably feel they have the same type of ministry as the apostles, but don't think they call themselves such, and have never claimed to perform miracles (that I recall). Thank you for your support and understanding. I was beginning to think that there was something wrong with my trend of thought, however it seems like we are both on the same planet. Yes I endorse everything you have written here. I think that some folks just read the stuff on here and before thinking it through they begin to critique based on their perception of what has been written rather on what has actually been written. It is called ill conceived perception. You see what you want to see. I think I will withdraw from the forum again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 3:47:00 GMT -5
God is in control every second of the day. When We become ill , it is God's hand that heals us and if it is our time to leave this earth then we will not be healed no matter how hard the medics try to save us. So you believe that it was also god's hand that makes us ill and then, sometimes, heals us? I was looking at a medical book from the 50's that showed children in iron lungs and with leg braces. Can you think of a reason why god would choose to harm people like that? Of course, if the medics do heal the patient then it must have not been gods time for the person to go! I struggle with this kind of reasoning. Falsifiability or refutability of a claim is so important when looking for truth. My dear friend, you are entitled to your opinion as an atheist, and I am entitled to mine as a believer, you do not have to accept anything I write here, let us agree to disagree.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 2, 2014 5:52:57 GMT -5
Partaker
As I said in pm I dont want you to leave tmb. I feel responsible for my response this morning to your post. I do value and appreciate your comments here. Fwiw I dont condone ministries who use anything that is freely given by the holy spirit as a money maker Ive worked with large ministries and seen what finance comes in and where it goes.
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Post by rational on Oct 2, 2014 7:50:33 GMT -5
So you believe that it was also god's hand that makes us ill and then, sometimes, heals us? I was looking at a medical book from the 50's that showed children in iron lungs and with leg braces. Can you think of a reason why god would choose to harm people like that? Of course, if the medics do heal the patient then it must have not been gods time for the person to go! I struggle with this kind of reasoning. Falsifiability or refutability of a claim is so important when looking for truth. My dear friend, you are entitled to your opinion as an atheist, and I am entitled to mine as a believer, you do not have to accept anything I write here, let us agree to disagree. I was looking for an explanation from you if/why you held the beliefs as you expressed them. I did not expect you to try to convert me to your way of thinking any more than I would attempt to convert you to my way of thinking. They are. of course, your beliefs and you do not owe me, or anyone, an explanation. I was just looking for more details on the foundation of your belief.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 10:41:48 GMT -5
Partaker As I said in pm I dont want you to leave tmb. I feel responsible for my response this morning to your post. I do value and appreciate your comments here. Fwiw I dont condone ministries who use anything that is freely given by the holy spirit as a money maker Ive worked with large ministries and seen what finance comes in and where it goes. Please don't worry yourself about it, I have responded to your PM. May God richly bless you , and take good care of yourself. Partaker.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 14:18:20 GMT -5
So now that you are not a worker what happened to the calling to be an apostle ? My calling hasn't changed for me... the different is that I am NOT active in the 2x2 Itinerant travelling minister group. My calling is still the same and that's to teach, and share with others the gospel of Christ. like I am doing on TMB and my 2x2 message board. I have talked and share the gospel message to hundreds, thousands and thousands of people where I work than I did when I was in the work. I have over 200,000 viewers on my 2x2 website/message board over the last 15 yrs. Many people have learned about Jesus Truth and Way, and quite a few people have come to convention, gospel meetings through my website/message board, some ex-2x2 have returned to the fellowship.
Use the talent/gifts God has given you it doesn't matter whether you are a worker/apostle or the friend/saint. Invest/share the knowledge God has given you. Cast your bread on the water and it will multiply. Don't hide your light! Be light and salt in this dark world.
Remember the parable of the 10 talents? the one who received the 1 talent went and buried it, the 5 and 10 talents invested and they double the investment. When master/Jesus returns he punished the one buried his talent and rewards the ones who double their talent/gift. Jesus reveals when He and His people returns to reign on the earth as King of king and LORD of lords the 1000 yrs reign. He will the reward the faithful and punished the unfaithful servants by casting him/her in outer darkness. The faithful will rule over many cities as rulers in Jesus kingdom on the earth.
The Greatest ability is Dependability. Share the gift, God's wisdom, revelation of Jesus Christ to anyone who you come in contact with... Whether your calling is a worker/apostle or a follower/friend of Jesus. Find ways to reach the multitude, do some volunteer work in the community, find jobs where you can share your light, etc . Jesus final commission to his apostles and followers, " Go, and TEACH all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. TEACH them to Observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always unto the end." (Matt 28:19-20)
Good on you Nathan, let your light so shine that others may see your good work and Glorify the Father.You are no longer a worker but you are sort of an ambassador for Christ. Keep up the good work and reap the reward.i admire your enthusiasm, brother.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 14:32:16 GMT -5
I firmly believe that God answers prayers and that prayers is a mighty source of power; however, I am also aware that there is a certain amount of dishonesty and skulduggery surrounding so-called faith healing. A lot of it has been exposed on YouTube where secret cameras have been deliberately set up to capture the trickery involved in some cases. It appears that a lot of it is to do with money making. It is said that the love of money is the root of all evil. Some people part with their hard earned money but they are not healed. Witch doctors claim to be able to heal people too, does God have anything to do with witch doctors? I doubt that very much. So who do witch doctors pray to in order to bring about the so called healings? Ok, let me guess, the devil, satan, beelzebub? I suppose the devil looks after his own. It is most interesting that many modern day miracles are claimed to be performed not by Jesus, but by the Virgin Mary, and the claim normally comes from Roman Catholics around the world. Is that due to a religious denominationl connection, one might ask? Does it seem a bit odd that one can believe that a 'god' will answer prayers and "heal" someone but only if it is the GOD in whom they believe?
If the "healing" is done by Witch doctors, then it has to be because any "healing" done is due to devil, satan, or beelzebub?
It does not seem odd to me at all, the reason for that is that I believe in Almighty God, creator of Heaven and Earth and all that is within; apparently you do not believe in that same Almighty God and so it would seem odd to you. It is as simple as that in a nut shell.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 17:58:41 GMT -5
Good on you Nathan, let your light so shine that others may see your good work and Glorify the Father. You are no longer a worker but you are sort of an ambassador for Christ. Keep up the good work and reap the reward. L admire your enthusiasm, brother. Thank you, brother. I hope you, and others 2x2s on TMB continue to share your lights, belief, faith in God on here. ALL of us are ambassadors for Christ.You are most welcome, keep on keeping on. United in Christ we stand, divided we fall. We must not allow the Devil or any body else steal our joy .Come brothers on.......and sisters also.
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 2, 2014 21:13:39 GMT -5
Good on you Nathan, let your light so shine that others may see your good work and Glorify the Father. You are no longer a worker but you are sort of an ambassador for Christ. Keep up the good work and reap the reward. L admire your enthusiasm, brother. Thank you, brother. I hope you, and others 2x2s on TMB continue to share your lights, belief, faith in God on here. ALL of us are ambassadors for Christ.So what about ex's on TMB that believe in God, can people only share their light if they are 2x2's ?
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logain
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Post by logain on Oct 3, 2014 0:33:00 GMT -5
Not all workers refer to themselves as apostles but some do.
The ones that do are the type that are 100% confident that they are called of God into His one true way and being that they (exclusively) are guided by the Holy Spirit, any decisions in life and any interpretation of scripture that they make are as close to infallible as any since Christ.
Other are not so confident as to refer to the apostles in the bible like they would of peers.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 2:06:47 GMT -5
Not all workers refer to themselves as apostles but some do. The ones that do are the type that are 100% confident that they are called of God into His one true way and being that they (exclusively) are guided by the Holy Spirit, any decisions in life and any interpretation of scripture that they make are as close to infallible as any since Christ. Other are not so confident as to refer to the apostles in the bible like they would of peers. How does God speak to the workers?
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Post by withlove on Oct 3, 2014 8:53:24 GMT -5
"Drainpipe of the lord" has made my day. Possibly my month. Thank you, bubbles!
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Post by Greg on Oct 3, 2014 9:05:58 GMT -5
How does God speak to the workers? From my own experiences..... through dreams, from reading the word of God, learning from others, the workers and those with God's knowlege like many here on TMB, and through meditation.What about the still, small voice?
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Post by rational on Oct 3, 2014 9:10:04 GMT -5
How does God speak to the workers? How does God speak to anyone the workers?
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Post by rational on Oct 3, 2014 9:26:01 GMT -5
From my own experiences..... through dreams, from reading the word of God, learning from others, the workers and those with God's knowlege like many here on TMB, and through meditation. What about the still, small voice? How can it be distinguished from an auditory hallucination? The mother who hears the still small voice of 'god' that says to kill her children so they will not sin and end up in hell or the man on the street who hears the still small voice that says give the homeless person $10. Abraham said he heard a voice that told him to kill his son so he obeyed what he heard. Boyce Singleton Jr. heard god tell him to kill his pregnant wife so he obeyed what he heard. He was more successful in his task than Abraham.
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Post by rational on Oct 3, 2014 11:40:03 GMT -5
There are voices people hear.... either from God or the devil.... The devil speak to people in voices too, so be very careful in which voice you hear and believe. It is God's voice when it leads you closer to Him. Satan's voice is leading people further from God's will and His presence. Let's just address two recorded cases: Abraham said he heard a voice that told him to kill his son so he obeyed what he heard. Boyce Singleton Jr. heard god tell him to kill his pregnant wife so he obeyed what he heard. He was more successful in his task than Abraham.Both claimed god told them to kill their children. Was Satan speaking to Abraham? You can exchange the Boyce story with the story of the woman who heard god tell her to kill her children to save them. There are many examples. Remember, god works in mysterious ways. God's mind is not man's mind. Man cannot comprehand the works of god. If you believe that people hear the voice of god how can you discount one but not the other?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 13:37:23 GMT -5
"Drainpipe of the lord" has made my day. Possibly my month. Thank you, bubbles! Great thats why I wrote it.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 13:45:20 GMT -5
How does God speak to the workers? From my own experiences..... through dreams, from reading the word of God, learning from others, the workers and those with God's knowlege like many here on TMB, many times thoughts, ideas come through meditation on the spiritual things.Nate I dont ever remember workers discussing or teaching on this topic. You are the first I think. I doubt very much they are the only ones who hear. When I was a young teen I told a sister worker while she was preaching I saw a bright light glowing out of her head..lol I didnt see it on anyone else. Wondering now if I freaked her out
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 14:32:19 GMT -5
Nate I dont ever remember workers discussing or teaching on this topic. You are the first I think. I doubt very much they are the only ones who hear. When I was a young teen I told a sister worker while she was preaching I saw a bright light glowing out of her head..lol I didnt see it on anyone else. Wondering now if I freaked her out Each of us have an aura/glow or Chi engergy within us that sometimes people can see. You're a unique person Bubbles, you see and understanding things others do NOT see. You, Anna, and snow have that gift. Let me find out on this topic and post it on here.Chi energy.... heals. Amazing video of a man with mighty energy of Chi with his hands, and within his body. He can set things on fire with his hands. www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9QShakras? I didnt know what it was. I thought it might have been god?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 15:11:15 GMT -5
Shakras? I didnt know what it was. I thought it might have been god? I believe Chi and Shakras are the same thing but called it differently in different languages.www.bing.com/images/search?q=chakras%3f&qpvt=Shakras%3f&FORM=IGREChi is an inner energy within us. Sometimes we see Halo on the angels, Jesus, Mary and eastern teachers Buddha paintings.Demonstrating the Power of Chi from a Kung Fu master. Power drill couldn't penetrate his head! www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOXnjtSRYSk God put the Chi energy within us. The brain is an amazing thing by using the Chi energy it can heal the body.when i trained in tae kwon do i was never able to harness chi/ki like i wanted too...very interesting...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2014 15:46:10 GMT -5
From my own experiences..... through dreams, from reading the word of God, learning from others, the workers and those with God's knowlege like many here on TMB, many times thoughts, ideas come through meditation on the spiritual things. Nate I dont ever remember workers discussing or teaching on this topic. You are the first I think. I doubt very much they are the only ones who hear. When I was a young teen I told a sister worker while she was preaching I saw a bright light glowing out of her head..lol I didnt see it on anyone else. Wondering now if I freaked her out Bubbles are sure that the bright light glowing out of her head wasn't just the sun behind her head or a bright electric lamp?
Maybe you were having a migraine headache that also produces such auras.
Could even be a petite mal seizure?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:36:42 GMT -5
when i trained in tae kwon do i was never able to harness chi/ki like i wanted too...very interesting... How long did you take Taekwondo? It takes years of practice to attain the Chi energy. The Shaolin monks, Qi Gong masters, and other masters have known the secret of the Chi energy for thousands years in China. They showed some of the most amazing demonstration inner Chi is for real. about 1 -1/2 years just a baby in it really...
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 18:05:05 GMT -5
Nate I dont ever remember workers discussing or teaching on this topic. You are the first I think. I doubt very much they are the only ones who hear. When I was a young teen I told a sister worker while she was preaching I saw a bright light glowing out of her head..lol I didnt see it on anyone else. Wondering now if I freaked her out Bubbles are sure that the bright light glowing out of her head wasn't just the sun behind her head or a bright electric lamp?
Maybe you were having a migraine headache that also produces such auras.
Could even be a petite mal seizure?
Sometimes I could shake you. NO. Didnt get migranes. Afternoon mission. Remembered something else too. In summer I squinted a lot in the sun one reason was everything had light beams people trees cars so I would squint to view the perspective properly. Yes dimmichgood u can acknowledge im peculiar.it matters not a jot.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 18:08:19 GMT -5
Nate Read about chakras did a test a while back. Havent read about chi yet. Seen a bit on energy fields. We were always told that stuff was demonic in church.
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Post by xna on Oct 3, 2014 18:21:09 GMT -5
Yes dimmichgood u can acknowledge im peculiar.it matters not a jot. Sounds like Synesthesia"... many of the individuals claiming to see the aura of people – traditionally called healers or quacks – actually present the neuropsychological phenomenon known as synesthesia." In neurological terms, synesthesia is due to cross-wiring in the brain of some people called synesthetes. In other words, synesthetes have more synaptic connections than “normal” people. www.sci-news.com/medicine/article00298.html
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