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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 24, 2017 11:14:07 GMT -5
Ephesians 2:20-22 ... fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God;. And are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone; in whom ALL the building fitly framed together "groweth"(means continuing to grow) unto an holy temple in the Lord; In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The verse you quoted speaks if a finished foundation and it's reference to whom is in that foundation is Rev. 21:14. I Cor.3:11 says in fact, For other foundation can no man lay that that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
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Post by nathan on Dec 24, 2017 13:07:18 GMT -5
Well, if I broke my back from being thrown off a horses back being 6'3" when he stood flat, and when he bucked me off of that 6'3" back that was multiplied 2-3 times, it's very safe to say the scenario in moral story just might be the one who the chief cornerstone falls on. Now ,Nathan, reread your quote from Ephesians. The foundation of the prophets and Apostles are already lain and any coming after the twelve are being put into the walls. Jesus finished laying the foundation while in earth. That's why he could sat "It is finished" and why it was determined it was time for him to become the Lamb of God in order that all those who were to be in those walls were cleansed by his blood. There is NO where it says the 70 were apostle s or were part of the foundation. Read that verse over paying heed to it. I realize that there's a language barrier for you sometime s in the written words. There is no language barrier, you either don't understand or blind to the facts. The 12 apostles are the foundation of the New Testament church of God and Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone, the 70 apostles, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas and the rest of the apostles through the centuries, and saints are the bricks and mortars that to be added on the foundation. Paul explained so clearly in his epistles...
Paul wrote in I Cor. 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
~~ Nathan: The apostles (12, 70, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas, and ALL the apostles through down the centuries) prophets (All the followers of Christ through the centuries) are God's building. Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone! The New Testament spiritual House of God is NOT finished, there are more Gentiles believers are to be gathered in from many nations, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Eph 2: 19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
~~ Nathan: The foundation of the New Testament church is DONE! Jesus laid it down, which was the 12 apostles and He is the cornerstone and every builder must line up with His/teachings. The apostles and followers of Christ through the centuries are the master builders like Paul, Timothy, Silas and of the New Testament Church of God. We have 0ver 2000 yrs church history of apostles and Jesus followers builders of the New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship.
Have you read chapter V, of the Pilgrim Church book? My companion Jay W. and I heard early church historian professor, who gave a lecture on this in Oregon 1989-90 VERY amazing information about the history of Peter Waldo and those who existed 1000 yrs before him that followed Matthew 19:21 the perfect/apostles . It was my beginning in learning about the Vaudois/Waldenses a few months later when one of the friends gave us this book The Pilgrim Church at preps convention and I have studied about them for over 30 years.
gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
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Post by snow on Dec 24, 2017 15:25:46 GMT -5
Well, if I broke my back from being thrown off a horses back being 6'3" when he stood flat, and when he bucked me off of that 6'3" back that was multiplied 2-3 times, it's very safe to say the scenario in moral story just might be the one who the chief cornerstone falls on. Now ,Nathan, reread your quote from Ephesians. The foundation of the prophets and Apostles are already lain and any coming after the twelve are being put into the walls. Jesus finished laying the foundation while in earth. That's why he could sat "It is finished" and why it was determined it was time for him to become the Lamb of God in order that all those who were to be in those walls were cleansed by his blood. There is NO where it says the 70 were apostle s or were part of the foundation. Read that verse over paying heed to it. I realize that there's a language barrier for you sometime s in the written words. I don't think I can count the amount of times I've been thrown. My mom and her sisters were all horse women. My aunts (non professing) used to compete in trail rides until well into their 80's. They were all amazing women and managed a lot of trophies between the two of them! Mom even rode a couple of time in her 80's after her hip replacement.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 24, 2017 19:02:34 GMT -5
Well, if I broke my back from being thrown off a horses back being 6'3" when he stood flat, and when he bucked me off of that 6'3" back that was multiplied 2-3 times, it's very safe to say the scenario in moral story just might be the one who the chief cornerstone falls on. Now ,Nathan, reread your quote from Ephesians. The foundation of the prophets and Apostles are already lain and any coming after the twelve are being put into the walls. Jesus finished laying the foundation while in earth. That's why he could sat "It is finished" and why it was determined it was time for him to become the Lamb of God in order that all those who were to be in those walls were cleansed by his blood. There is NO where it says the 70 were apostle s or were part of the foundation. Read that verse over paying heed to it. I realize that there's a language barrier for you sometime s in the written words. There is no language barrier, you either don't understand or blind to the facts. The 12 apostles are the foundation of the New Testament church of God and Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone, the 70 apostles, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas and the rest of the apostles through the centuries, and saints are the bricks and mortars that to be added on the foundation. Paul explained so clearly in his epistles...
Paul wrote in I Cor. 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
~~ Nathan: The apostles (12, 70, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas, and ALL the apostles through down the centuries) prophets (All the followers of Christ through the centuries) are God's building. Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone! The New Testament spiritual House of God is NOT finished, there are more Gentiles believers are to be gathered in from many nations, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Eph 2: 19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
~~ Nathan: The foundation of the New Testament church is DONE! Jesus laid it down, which was the 12 apostles and He is the cornerstone and every builder must line up with His/teachings. The apostles and followers of Christ through the centuries are the master builders like Paul, Timothy, Silas and of the New Testament Church of God. We have 0ver 2000 yrs church history of apostles and Jesus followers builders of the New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship.
Have you read chapter V, of the Pilgrim Church book? My companion Jay W. and I heard early church historian professor, who gave a lecture on this in Oregon 1989-90 VERY amazing information about the history of Peter Waldo and those who existed 1000 yrs before him that followed Matthew 19:21 the perfect/apostles . It was my beginning in learning about the Vaudois/Waldenses a few months later when one of the friends gave us this book The Pilgrim Church at preps convention and I have studied about them for over 30 years.
gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
I've not said the building was finished, I said that the foundation is finished before Jesus was crucified. It was vital that the New Testament Covenant have a solid foundation before Jesus was crucified. He did do, when Peter and the other Apostles told Jesus they knew he was the Messiah sent from God, Jesus told them then that the foundation was built on by the prophets and Apostles, himself being the chief cornerstone. After he was assured that the twelve Apostles were knowledgeable about Jesus, then Jesus began to tell them about his coming crucifixion. He knew that the foundation was secured and sound when those Twelve Apostles knew he was sent from the Father. They would be able to go into all the world and tell the gospel story after the Resurrection and the baptism by the Holy Spirit. The walls are still growing and will until Jesus returns.
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Post by nathan on Dec 24, 2017 19:29:45 GMT -5
There is no language barrier, you either don't understand or blind to the facts. The 12 apostles are the foundation of the New Testament church of God and Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone, the 70 apostles, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas and the rest of the apostles through the centuries, and saints are the bricks and mortars that to be added on the foundation. Paul explained so clearly in his epistles...
Paul wrote in I Cor. 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
~~ Nathan: The apostles (12, 70, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Silas, and ALL the apostles through down the centuries) prophets (All the followers of Christ through the centuries) are God's building. Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone! The New Testament spiritual House of God is NOT finished, there are more Gentiles believers are to be gathered in from many nations, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Eph 2: 19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
~~ Nathan: The foundation of the New Testament church is DONE! Jesus laid it down, which was the 12 apostles and He is the cornerstone and every builder must line up with His/teachings. The apostles and followers of Christ through the centuries are the master builders like Paul, Timothy, Silas and of the New Testament Church of God. We have 0ver 2000 yrs church history of apostles and Jesus followers builders of the New Testament apostolic ministry and fellowship.
Have you read chapter V, of the Pilgrim Church book? My companion Jay W. and I heard early church historian professor, who gave a lecture on this in Oregon 1989-90 VERY amazing information about the history of Peter Waldo and those who existed 1000 yrs before him that followed Matthew 19:21 the perfect/apostles . It was my beginning in learning about the Vaudois/Waldenses a few months later when one of the friends gave us this book The Pilgrim Church at preps convention and I have studied about them for over 30 years.
gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
I've not said the building was finished, I said that the foundation is finished before Jesus was crucified. It was vital that the New Testament Covenant have a solid foundation before Jesus was crucified. He did do, when Peter and the other Apostles told Jesus they knew he was the Messiah sent from God, Jesus told them then that the foundation was built on by the prophets and Apostles, himself being the chief cornerstone. After he was assured that the twelve Apostles were knowledgeable about Jesus, then Jesus began to tell them about his coming crucifixion. He knew that the foundation was secured and sound when those Twelve Apostles knew he was sent from the Father. They would be able to go into all the world and tell the gospel story after the Resurrection and the baptism by the Holy Spirit. The walls are still growing and will until Jesus returns. Well, This is what you believe then I have I say "Amen" because that is how I understand it also. The Walls of apostles and prophets/followers of Christ are still growing/building up on this spiritual Temple of God until Jesus returns. He hasn't come back to earth to reign as King of kings for 2000 yrs... Only God the Father knows when is the time for the Gentiles believers opportunity in hearing the gospel comes to an end.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 24, 2017 21:02:13 GMT -5
The foundation that Paul was speaking about him laying is not the same foundation that I've been talking about. That foundation Paul said he laid was the basic gospel message of Jesus Christ. He mentioned that others would be helping to make that gospel foundation stronger in the converts. The workers lay this basic gospel foundation in new converts.
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Post by Gene on Dec 24, 2017 21:07:51 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls if the Heavenly, Holy Jersey. Help me out. I'm not understanding the last sentence. Where is the heavenly Jersey and a few 'ifs' when I think you mean 'of'. Don't worry, my phone messes up words too. I think the heavenly Jersey (New, that is) is somewhere west of the NJ turnpike. Anything east of the turnpike is more hellish than heavenly.
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Post by nathan on Dec 24, 2017 21:14:44 GMT -5
The foundation that Paul was speaking about him laying is not the same foundation that I've been talking about. That foundation Paul said he laid was the basic gospel message of Jesus Christ. He mentioned that others would be helping to make that gospel foundation stronger in the converts. The workers lay this basic gospel foundation in new converts. Paul the master builder, he built/add on the 12 foundations that Jesus Christ put down on the New Testament temple of the Lord, but he/Paul kept his eye focus constantly line up with the chief corner/Jesus to make sure everything was in the correct formation.
The workers, the friends and ALL Christians should be like Paul... Keep their eyes mainly focus their gospel/doctrines to line up on Jesus Christ the chief corner stone. If they don't line up with the teachings of Jesus Christ then they just built on wood, hay, and straws... and it will be all burn up in smoke and all of their HARD works will be all in vain as Paul wrote it in I Cor. 3:11-15.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 28, 2017 21:33:03 GMT -5
Nathan. Have you even considered the size of that new city? It is 12,000 furlongs square. A furlong is o.125 miles. That would make that new city 1500 miles square. Well to put that in perspective , the US is about 3000 miles coast to coast. the new city with the twelve foundations already there is going to take a lot of people to build those walls to that measurement, so I'd think that the walls are what the believers, ministry and all are doing. Mean culpa Wally, My calculation was way off. Didn't get the dot oin right place.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:03:58 GMT -5
Nathan. Have you even considered the size of that new city? It is 12,000 furlongs square. A furlong is 2 miles. That would make that new city 24,000 miles square. Well to put that in perspective , the earth is just a few miles more then 24,900 miles circumference. So just flatten the earth out into a Square to be 24,900 miles in every direction, the new city with the twelve foundations already there is going to take a lot of people to build those walls to that measurement, so I'd think that the walls are what the believers, ministry and all are doing. a furlong is equal to 1/8 of a mile that makes the city about 1500 miles on each side...
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Post by nathan on Dec 29, 2017 0:26:03 GMT -5
Nathan. Have you even considered the size of that new city? It is 12,000 furlongs square. A furlong is 2 miles. That would make that new city 24,000 miles square. Well to put that in perspective , the earth is just a few miles more then 24,900 miles circumference. So just flatten the earth out into a Square to be 24,900 miles in every direction, the new city with the twelve foundations already there is going to take a lot of people to build those walls to that measurement, so I'd think that the walls are what the believers, ministry and all are doing. John the apostle gave us some hints of the New heavenly city of Jerusalem with the 12 foundations of the apostles built upon the apostles, prophets, Jesus Two and Two apostolic and believers ministry through the centuries. Revelation chapter 11.
Revelation 11:1-4, 10 And there was given me/John a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city/Jerusalem shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (be in control of the Gentiles/Romans/Arabs/English until 1948 the Jews got their independence and became a nation.)And I will give power unto my two witnesses, (Jesus Two and Two apostolic ministry through the centuries until the Gentiles area/time in hearing the gospel be fulfilled) these are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.... and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 2000 years ago, Paul wrote in Eph 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
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Post by nathan on Dec 29, 2017 0:36:51 GMT -5
Nathan. Have you even considered the size of that new city? It is 12,000 furlongs square. A furlong is 2 miles. That would make that new city 24,000 miles square. Well to put that in perspective , the earth is just a few miles more then 24,900 miles circumference. So just flatten the earth out into a Square to be 24,900 miles in every direction, the new city with the twelve foundations already there is going to take a lot of people to build those walls to that measurement, so I'd think that the walls are what the believers, ministry and all are doing. a furlong is equal to 1/8 of a mile that makes the city about 1500 miles on each side... The Immensity of the New Jerusalem
Posted on March 7, 2011 by Robert Rouse
The city described in Revelation 21:9-27 is amazingly vivid and also somewhat strange. It has great walls, many gates, pure glassy gold, precious stones, and light that shines forever. In the next chapter, Rev. 22, we find out more about God’s throne, the river of life, and the tree of life. We are only in this world for a time; it is eternity which we must prepare for…do you know what it might be like? In this article we’ll examine just one aspect of the New Jerusalem: its sheer size. For some time now, I have been at a loss to imagine a golden city with twelve foundations as described in verses 19-20. When revisiting this passage recently, it noticed that the city is described as a CUBE with each side being of equal length (Rev 21:16). Its measurements are 12,000 furlongs (or stadia) on each side (Rev 21:16), which converts to around 1,380 miles. Just how big is that? The illustration below compares the size of this city to Planet Earth: soulliberty.com/the-immensity-of-the-new-jerusalem/~~ Semitic civilizations referred to the god Saturn as “El” who is the supreme deity and represented by a black cube. If you look at the etymology of the word Kabbalah, Kabba = cube and alah (allah) means God, so you get the Cube of God.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 29, 2017 2:18:54 GMT -5
Help me out. I'm not understanding the last sentence. Where is the heavenly Jersey and a few 'ifs' when I think you mean 'of'. Don't worry, my phone messes up words too. I think the heavenly Jersey (New, that is) is somewhere west of the NJ turnpike. Anything east of the turnpike is more hellish than heavenly. Really, Gene?
With all the lovely coast line?
I really loved Long Beach Island when I was out in Philadelphia, but I am sure I would hardly recognize it now. That's one of the problems of getting old.
Some times you'd rather have just the memory of a place rather than a revisit.
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Post by Gene on Dec 29, 2017 7:03:37 GMT -5
You're right, there are aspects of the Jersey Shore that are pleasant, but there are just SO MANY people and so much traffic that it takes a lot of the joy out of it. I'd rather live on a farm near Peoria
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 2, 2018 18:03:59 GMT -5
Help me out. I'm not understanding the last sentence. Where is the heavenly Jersey and a few 'ifs' when I think you mean 'of'. Don't worry, my phone messes up words too. I think the heavenly Jersey (New, that is) is somewhere west of the NJ turnpike. Anything east of the turnpike is more hellish than heavenly. Can Sub-Zero temps be "hellish"? Gene, hope you're alright in this article weather. We're even having temps in the teens. Kinda rare for us. Been many years anyhoo. Last year our regular temps were 40-50 degrees every day. And one light snow. This year we've already had a light freezing rain. Luckily it was when the blast first hit us and streets were still warm enough that sheet of ice quickly melted.
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Post by Gene on Jan 2, 2018 18:40:30 GMT -5
I think the heavenly Jersey (New, that is) is somewhere west of the NJ turnpike. Anything east of the turnpike is more hellish than heavenly. Can Sub-Zero temps be "hellish"? Gene, hope you're alright in this article weather. We're even having temps in the teens. Kinda rare for us. Been many years anyhoo. Last year our regular temps were 40-50 degrees every day. And one light snow. This year we've already had a light freezing rain. Luckily it was when the blast first hit us and streets were still warm enough that sheet of ice quickly melted. Yes, doing fine, thanks. I grew up in northern Iowa, so kind of learned from before I could dress myself how to bundle up and go outside and play
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