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Post by blandie on Dec 21, 2017 14:10:24 GMT -5
*** You need to read chapter 1:1 where Paul include Solar and Timothy as "WE" the apostles of Christ in chapter 2. Thanks but I did already read that - just because 2 other people are included in the header of a letter doesn't mean that everything that follows refers to all 3 - read the rest of my reply. The word 'we' isn't used in the original language of the verse you quoted - it was inserted in the kjv to make it flow easier in english - and other places where 'we' is inserted it also directly says that paul is referring to himself and not to some group of 3 people.
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2017 14:36:05 GMT -5
*** You need to read chapter 1:1 where Paul include Solar and Timothy as "WE" the apostles of Christ in chapter 2. Thanks but I did already read that - just because 2 other people are included in the header of a letter doesn't mean that everything that follows refers to all 3 - read the rest of my reply. The word 'we' isn't used in the original language of the verse you quoted - it was inserted in the kjv to make it flow easier in english - and other places where 'we' is inserted it also directly says that paul is referring to himself and not to some group of 3 people. *** Ok, Paul did NOT qualify to be called an apostle because he was NOT commission by jesus like the 12 and 70. Paul was not the disciple of Jesus from the beginning and he did NOT witness Jesus resrrection either... So, according to your belief, Paul should not qualify as an apostle but you accept him as the apostle of Christ. Your belief is how to be call an apostle all mixed up and incorrect. It doesn't make sense if you apply the instructions or qualifications in Acts 1 to replace Judas apostleship with Matthais to all future apostles then you have made the biggest error doctrine of all time.
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Post by blandie on Dec 21, 2017 15:06:00 GMT -5
*** Ok, Paul did NOT qualify to be called an apostle because he was NOT commission by jesus like the 12 and 70. Paul was not the disciple of Jesus from the beginning and he did NOT witness Jesus resrrection either... So, according to your belief, Paul should not qualify as an apostle but you accept him as the apostle of Christ. Your belief is how to be call an apostle all mixed up and incorrect. It doesn't make sense if you apply the instructions or qualifications in Acts 1 to replace Judas apostleship with Matthais to all future apostles then you have made the biggest doctrine of all time. Paul was around to witness jesus's earthly ministry - he was in jerusalem during those 3 years at the feet of the pharisees and he was directly commissioned by jesus as paul himself says and he did fill the qualifications and he did directly see the resurrected jesus - as he also says and which you may recall blinded him - and paul did exhibit the credentials/signs of a true apostle multiple times. He may or may not be numbered among the 12 - we don't know that - and tho the 11 were looking for a 12th to bear witness with them Matthias isn't specifically called an apostle and the original language just says that he was 'voted' to be 'among' or 'after' or 'with' the 11. Paul makes his own defense against those such as you who questioned his apostleship and answered your points already. Arguing from your bias that there actually ARE future apostles commissioned by jesus christ is not at all what the scriptures say.
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2017 15:38:11 GMT -5
*** Where in the gospel that you read Paul was in Jerusalem 3 yrs during Jesus 3 yrs ministry and he saw Jesus resurrection and were with Jesus from the beginning. We read about the young man Saul in Acts chapter 7 who later became Paul the apostle in Acts chapter 11 was many years from Acts 1, where Jesus ascended to heaven.
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Post by snow on Dec 21, 2017 17:14:23 GMT -5
Thanks but I did already read that - just because 2 other people are included in the header of a letter doesn't mean that everything that follows refers to all 3 - read the rest of my reply. The word 'we' isn't used in the original language of the verse you quoted - it was inserted in the kjv to make it flow easier in english - and other places where 'we' is inserted it also directly says that paul is referring to himself and not to some group of 3 people. *** Ok, Paul did NOT qualify to be called an apostle because he was NOT commission by jesus like the 12 and 70. Paul was not the disciple of Jesus from the beginning and he did NOT witness Jesus resrrection either... So, according to your belief, Paul should not qualify as an apostle but you accept him as the apostle of Christ. Your belief is how to be call an apostle all mixed up and incorrect. It doesn't make sense if you apply the instructions or qualifications in Acts 1 to replace Judas apostleship with Matthais to all future apostles then you have made the biggest error doctrine of all time. Paul made himself an apostle. The other apostles didn't accept him as one. That should tell someone something shouldn't it?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2017 21:49:12 GMT -5
Frank Viola raised a good point in So You Want to Start a House Church? (combined and revised into Reimagining Church) in chapter 11, "Wasn't Paul the Last Church Planter?", regarding the continued calling of apostles: Those words were recorded by the same John who wrote against that Diotrephes, "who loveth to have the preeminence among them", who did not receive "the brethren" who sent to work among the churches. Thats some fair sloppy thinking - by that logic we'd have to assume that because the bible says that there are false christs that there must also be true christs running around. The apostles of christ jesus are the foundation stones of the church - they still perform that function and its beyond silly to re-lay that foundation over and over - you don't get a building or a church by that and todays workers are not commissioned by jesus christ as his emissary and have not been provided by him with the attesting credentials to establish their true apostleship and do not share the qualifications that we are told true apostles of jesus have or much of any of the rest of the features of true apostles - and thats just as true for viola's pentecostal church. The twelve apostles chosen by Jesus himself are the foundation along with the prophets before Christ came down. Jesus is the foundations chief cornerstone, the apostles and prophet s all have lined up with him. Just like in the New Jerusalem there are twelve gates in the walls which represent the twelve tribes of Israel. All that was done and finished, didn't Jesus say"It is finished."?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2017 21:55:58 GMT -5
The Bible specifically says that Paul had been chosen by the Lord. He would learn all that he was to suffer for the Lord's sake. He was chosen by the Lord to take the Lord's message to the Gentiles. That alone would have indicated that Paul was physically and mentally chosen by the Lord. Mattias who was chosen by the eleven likely is not the twelve have.
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2017 22:44:37 GMT -5
*** Ok, Paul did NOT qualify to be called an apostle because he was NOT commission by jesus like the 12 and 70. Paul was not the disciple of Jesus from the beginning and he did NOT witness Jesus resrrection either... So, according to your belief, Paul should not qualify as an apostle but you accept him as the apostle of Christ. Your belief is how to be call an apostle all mixed up and incorrect. It doesn't make sense if you apply the instructions or qualifications in Acts 1 to replace Judas apostleship with Matthais to all future apostles then you have made the biggest error doctrine of all time. Paul made himself an apostle. The other apostles didn't accept him as one. That should tell someone something shouldn't it? One of the reasons, many of the Jewish apostles and disciples/followers from Jerusalem did NOT accept Paul because they thought he might be a double agent of the Pharisee tried to spy on them and hinder their progress. So, the resurrected Jesus appeared to Ananias, in a dream/vision saying that Saul is chosen vessel/apostle= sent one of him. Go and heal his eyesight, baptized and welcome him in the fellowship and the ministry.
I read that Ananias, was 1 of the 70 apostles whom Jesus sent forth in Luke 10. So, he had a good standing and testimony among the apostles so they believed his words but many apostles and believing Jews had some doubts of Paul's conversion and apostleship.
Christ/God sent Barnabas, another 1 of the 70 apostles to start Saul/Paul in the ministry Acts 11. because he believed in Paul encountered with the resurrected Jesus was TRUE and he was indeed a chosen vessel/apostle of Jesus Christ. Paul's life proved to ALL believers Jews and Gentiles alike he was indeed a true apostle of Christ until his death in Rome when he was beheaded by Nero the Emperor 68 A.D.
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Post by nathan on Dec 21, 2017 22:59:27 GMT -5
Thats some fair sloppy thinking - by that logic we'd have to assume that because the bible says that there are false christs that there must also be true christs running around. The apostles of christ jesus are the foundation stones of the church - they still perform that function and its beyond silly to re-lay that foundation over and over - you don't get a building or a church by that and todays workers are not commissioned by jesus christ as his emissary and have not been provided by him with the attesting credentials to establish their true apostleship and do not share the qualifications that we are told true apostles of jesus have or much of any of the rest of the features of true apostles - and thats just as true for viola's pentecostal church. The twelve apostles chosen by Jesus himself are the foundation along with the prophets before Christ came down. Jesus is the foundations chief cornerstone, the apostles and prophet s all have lined up with him. Just like in the New Jerusalem there are twelve gates in the walls which represent the twelve tribes of Israel. All that was done and finished, didn't Jesus say"It is finished."? Jesus paid the ransom price in full for humanity on Calvary's Cross, he said, "It is finished." The foundation of the New Testament church apostles and prophets are still in the making and it not yet finished until Jesus returns. The 12 were the first layer, and the 70 are the second layers, and many more layers of apostles need to be added on top in order for the building to be completed.
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Post by blandie on Dec 22, 2017 3:47:23 GMT -5
*** Where in the gospel that you read Paul was in Jerusalem 3 yrs during Jesus 3 yrs ministry and he saw Jesus resurrection and were with Jesus from the beginning. We read about the young man Saul in Acts chapter 7 who later became Paul the apostle in Acts chapter 11 was many years from Acts 1, where Jesus ascended to heaven.
Paul said of his education in jerusalem ' I am a jew born in tarsus of cilicia - but brought up in this city and educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strictness of the ancestral law' This would mean that he was in jerusalem long before he ever stood by while stephen was stoned or saw jesus on the road to damascus and he was very involved with the pharisee school who closely followed and examined jesus's ministry. Paul would have been 20 to 25 years old during jesus's ministry and he was still among the pharisees in jerusalem when he is first mentioned in Acts. He implies having kept updated on developments regarding jesus when a quarter century later he told king herod agrippa who was younger than him but who probably also would have known something about jesus that ' this thing was not done in a corner.' Jesus paid the ransom price in full for humanity on Calvary's Cross, he said, "It is finished." The foundation of the New Testament church apostles and prophets are still in the making and it not yet finished until Jesus returns. The 12 were the first layer, and the 70 are the second layers, and many more layers of apostles need to be added on top in order for the building to be completed.
No nathan - thats not how you build a building and if you keep laying layer after layer of foundations what you get is a USELESS mess instead of any kind of viable building.
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Post by snow on Dec 22, 2017 15:55:20 GMT -5
Paul made himself an apostle. The other apostles didn't accept him as one. That should tell someone something shouldn't it? One of the reasons, many of the Jewish apostles and disciples/followers from Jerusalem did NOT accept Paul because they thought he might be a double agent of the Pharisee tried to spy on them and hinder their progress. So, the resurrected Jesus appeared to Ananias, in a dream/vision saying that Saul is chosen vessel/apostle= sent one of him. Go and heal his eyesight, baptized and welcome him in the fellowship and the ministry.
I read that Ananias, was 1 of the 70 apostles whom Jesus sent forth in Luke 10. So, he had a good standing and testimony among the apostles so they believed his words but many apostles and believing Jews had some doubts of Paul's conversion and apostleship.
Christ/God sent Barnabas, another 1 of the 70 apostles to start Saul/Paul in the ministry Acts 11. because he believed in Paul encountered with the resurrected Jesus was TRUE and he was indeed a chosen vessel/apostle of Jesus Christ. Paul's life proved to ALL believers Jews and Gentiles alike he was indeed a true apostle of Christ until his death in Rome when he was beheaded by Nero the Emperor 68 A.D.
For some reason I always thought the only apostles were the original 12. The ones that came after them were all disciples, not apostles. You are probably right to say that they saw Paul as a spy because they also didn't agree with what he was preaching.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 16:13:38 GMT -5
Of course “workers” are apostles, the question should be, “whose?” They are chosen by workers, included by workers as workers, listed on workers lists, sent by workers (to wherever) until removed by workers. They are worker’s apostles, acknowledged by workers and those trusting in workers. To my mind, that makes and identifies whose apostles they really are. Each one MUST decide for themselves if workers are indeed their God’s apostles, or ...?
They chose to accept Tharold Sylvester as one of God’s apostles, or not, even as I once did. That is each person’s choice when, where and how to come out of such fog. Not easy, is it?
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2017 17:05:45 GMT -5
*** Where in the gospel that you read Paul was in Jerusalem 3 yrs during Jesus 3 yrs ministry and he saw Jesus resurrection and were with Jesus from the beginning. We read about the young man Saul in Acts chapter 7 who later became Paul the apostle in Acts chapter 11 was many years from Acts 1, where Jesus ascended to heaven.
Paul said of his education in jerusalem ' I am a jew born in tarsus of cilicia - but brought up in this city and educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strictness of the ancestral law' This would mean that he was in jerusalem long before he ever stood by while stephen was stoned or saw jesus on the road to damascus and he was very involved with the pharisee school who closely followed and examined jesus's ministry. Paul would have been 20 to 25 years old during jesus's ministry and he was still among the pharisees in jerusalem when he is first mentioned in Acts. He implies having kept updated on developments regarding jesus when a quarter century later he told king herod agrippa who was younger than him but who probably also would have known something about jesus that ' this thing was not done in a corner.' Jesus paid the ransom price in full for humanity on Calvary's Cross, he said, "It is finished." The foundation of the New Testament church apostles and prophets are still in the making and it not yet finished until Jesus returns. The 12 were the first layer, and the 70 are the second layers, and many more layers of apostles need to be added on top in order for the building to be completed.
No nathan - thats not how you build a building and if you keep laying layer after layer of foundations what you get is a USELESS mess instead of any kind of viable building. *** You're assuming Saul was in Jerusalem when Jesus was alive... Paul couldn't be an apostle of Jesus because he was NOT a disciple of him at any time during his earthly ministry. Saul was not a disciple so Jesus didn't apostle/sent him forth any time prior to his conversion in Acts 9. And Saul did NOT witness Jesus ascension to heaven either. According to those evidence Saul was NOT an apostle prior to his conversion in Acts 9 but became an apostle later or after Jesus resurrected. ~~~ When the builders build 100,000 sq mansion, the first they do is to lay the foundation first... The builders KNOW that mansion is NOT finished by any means but only a begining! It's not not finish until the mansion is completed. The 12 apostles were just the foundation and it does not mean the new testament finished...the new test. is Woking in progress. It will be completed when Jesus returns.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 22, 2017 18:03:45 GMT -5
Paul said of his education in jerusalem ' I am a jew born in tarsus of cilicia - but brought up in this city and educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strictness of the ancestral law' This would mean that he was in jerusalem long before he ever stood by while stephen was stoned or saw jesus on the road to damascus and he was very involved with the pharisee school who closely followed and examined jesus's ministry. Paul would have been 20 to 25 years old during jesus's ministry and he was still among the pharisees in jerusalem when he is first mentioned in Acts. He implies having kept updated on developments regarding jesus when a quarter century later he told king herod agrippa who was younger than him but who probably also would have known something about jesus that ' this thing was not done in a corner.' No nathan - thats not how you build a building and if you keep laying layer after layer of foundations what you get is a USELESS mess instead of any kind of viable building. *** You're assuming Saul was in Jerusalem when Jesus was alive... Paul couldn't be an apostle of Jesus because he was NOT a disciple of him at any time during his earthly ministry. Saul was not a disciple so Jesus didn't apostle/sent him forth any time prior to his conversion in Acts 9. And Saul did NOT witness Jesus ascension to heaven either. According to those evidence Saul was NOT an apostle prior to his conversion in Acts 9 but became an apostle later or after Jesus resurrected. ~~~ When the builders build 100,000 sq mansion, the first they do is to lay the foundation first... The builders KNOW that mansion is NOT finished by any means but only a begining! It's not not finish until the mansion is completed. The 12 apostles were just the foundation and it does not mean the new testament finished...the new test. is Woking in progress. It will be completed when Jesus returns. No, Nathan, Jesus was explicit in that the prophets of the OT and Jesus' Apostles are the foundation of Jesus' church . Read Rev. 21:14, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations and in them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.". Later in chapter it tells what precious stone each twelve were. We d done a study once about how many God-aproved prophets there are named in the Bible. I can't remember but seems like there were twelve. Nathan, all the ministry if Christian churches are in the walls if Jesus church. When Jesus said, "It is finished," he's referring to all the work the Father gave him to do, not just ministry etc. That work included Jesus preparing for his church or as Rev speaks about his bride. Foundations don't keep on piling up in any building. Fact is many foundations are not seen for they are buried upon the land where the house is to be built. So to think workers are continuing foundation building is purely wrong doctrine. As one overseer said to me one time when I'd asked him about if the workers would be rewarded more then the friends. He said, emphatically, "No.". That workers were just part of the church as others are.
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Post by nathan on Dec 22, 2017 21:15:22 GMT -5
*** You're assuming Saul was in Jerusalem when Jesus was alive... Paul couldn't be an apostle of Jesus because he was NOT a disciple of him at any time during his earthly ministry. Saul was not a disciple so Jesus didn't apostle/sent him forth any time prior to his conversion in Acts 9. And Saul did NOT witness Jesus ascension to heaven either. According to those evidence Saul was NOT an apostle prior to his conversion in Acts 9 but became an apostle later or after Jesus resurrected. ~~~ When the builders build 100,000 sq mansion, the first they do is to lay the foundation first... The builders KNOW that mansion is NOT finished by any means but only a begining! It's not not finish until the mansion is completed. The 12 apostles were just the foundation and it does not mean the new testament finished...the new test. is Woking in progress. It will be completed when Jesus returns. No, Nathan, Jesus was explicit in that the prophets of the OT and Jesus' Apostles are the foundation of Jesus' church . Read Rev. 21:14, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations and in them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.". Later in chapter it tells what precious stone each twelve were. We d done a study once about how many God-aproved prophets there are named in the Bible. I can't remember but seems like there were twelve. Nathan, all the ministry if Christian churches are in the walls if Jesus church. When Jesus said, "It is finished," he's referring to all the work the Father gave him to do, not just ministry etc. That work included Jesus preparing for his church or as Rev speaks about his bride. Foundations don't keep on piling up in any building. Fact is many foundations are not seen for they are buried upon the land where the house is to be built. So to think workers are continuing foundation building is purely wrong doctrine. As one overseer said to me one time when I'd asked him about if the workers would be rewarded more then the friends. He said, emphatically, "No.". That workers were just part of the church as others are. ~~ You gals don't get it... It seems it goes over your heads on this one. God must have blinded your vision so you can't understand what I am saying. I don't want to beat the dead horse, I'll let you go on your own merry way.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 23, 2017 18:37:50 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls if the Heavenly, Holy Jersey.
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2017 19:23:37 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls if the Heavenly, Holy Jersey. Let me try it again so you can understand better... Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone, then Jesus laid the 12 foundations= 12 apostles... then he later added another 70/72... you can call the walls, then many more apostles as the walls, windows frames.... and more walls, bricks, cements to be added on top of the foundation for the next 2000 years to complete God's New Testament Church. Only When Jesus Christ returns then the God New Testament church will be finished or completed.... There are more gentiles need to be gathered into the family of God until Jesus returns.
Jesus finished paid the ransom price on Calvary's Cross in full, but the work of gathering the Gentiles into the fold is NOT finished.
The 12 foundations without thousands and thousands of brick walls add on top with the cement, the 12 foundations is ONLY an empty slap of cement! without a complete of anything.
The 12 foundations, walls, bricks must line up with the Chief cornerstone= Jesus teaching... If it doesn't line up it will crumple soon or later.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 23, 2017 19:56:10 GMT -5
No, Nathan, Jesus was explicit in that the prophets of the OT and Jesus' Apostles are the foundation of Jesus' church . Read Rev. 21:14, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations and in them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.". Later in chapter it tells what precious stone each twelve were. We d done a study once about how many God-aproved prophets there are named in the Bible. I can't remember but seems like there were twelve. Nathan, all the ministry if Christian churches are in the walls if Jesus church. When Jesus said, "It is finished," he's referring to all the work the Father gave him to do, not just ministry etc. That work included Jesus preparing for his church or as Rev speaks about his bride. Foundations don't keep on piling up in any building. Fact is many foundations are not seen for they are buried upon the land where the house is to be built. So to think workers are continuing foundation building is purely wrong doctrine. As one overseer said to me one time when I'd asked him about if the workers would be rewarded more then the friends. He said, emphatically, "No.". That workers were just part of the church as others are. ~~ You gals don't get it... It seems it goes over your heads on this one. God must have blinded your vision so you can't understand what I am saying. I don't want to beat the dead horse, I'll let you go on your own merry way.
Nathan, Well why do you think that it is only, " You gals don't get it..?"
Do you think that the MEN do GET IT?
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2017 20:15:17 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls if the Heavenly, Holy Jersey. In Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are built together And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Paul wrote that the New Testament is built upon the foundation of the apostles (MANY through the centuries) and prophets NOT just the 12 apostles.
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2017 20:16:54 GMT -5
~~ You gals don't get it... It seems it goes over your heads on this one. God must have blinded your vision so you can't understand what I am saying. I don't want to beat the dead horse, I'll let you go on your own merry way.
Nathan, Well why do you think that it is only, " You gals don't get it..?"
Do you think that the MEN do GET IT?
I was replying to STR and Blandie posts so I said "gals" ... Yes, guys don't get it also...
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 23, 2017 20:42:49 GMT -5
Nathan said it went over you gals heads . Are you short in stature? Another scenario would be if speaker is sitting on a high horse? Alvin
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2017 20:54:11 GMT -5
Nathan said it went over you gals heads . Are you short in stature? Another scenario would be if speaker is sitting on a high horse? Alvin Nathan: hahaha.... good one Alvin, NO.... I am walking on the ground. No, high horse for me, fallen down from high horse can hurt yourself badly. I stay on the ground.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 23, 2017 20:57:26 GMT -5
Fair enuf Nathan. You did mention beating a dead horse. Maybe have to just dismount already. Lol Alvin
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Post by nathan on Dec 23, 2017 21:07:05 GMT -5
Fair enuf Nathan. You did mention beating a dead horse. Maybe have to just dismount already. Alvin Well, they keep bring back the dead horse, so we had to go for another round beating it one more time.
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Post by Grant on Dec 23, 2017 22:16:35 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls if the Heavenly, Holy Jersey. Help me out. I'm not understanding the last sentence. Where is the heavenly Jersey and a few 'ifs' when I think you mean 'of'. Don't worry, my phone messes up words too.
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Post by Grant on Dec 23, 2017 22:18:07 GMT -5
Fair enuf Nathan. You did mention beating a dead horse. Maybe have to just dismount already. Lol Alvin Did I hear my name? Someone calling me or just a sheep bleating?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 24, 2017 10:45:16 GMT -5
Nathan said it went over you gals heads . Are you short in stature? Another scenario would be if speaker is sitting on a high horse? Alvin Nathan: hahaha.... good one Alvin, NO.... I am walking on the ground. No, high horse for me, fallen down from high horse can hurt yourself badly. I stay on the ground.Well, if I broke my back from being thrown off a horses back being 6'3" when he stood flat, and when he bucked me off of that 6'3" back that was multiplied 2-3 times, it's very safe to say the scenario in moral story just might be the one who the chief cornerstone falls on. Now ,Nathan, reread your quote from Ephesians. The foundation of the prophets and Apostles are already lain and any coming after the twelve are being put into the walls. Jesus finished laying the foundation while in earth. That's why he could sat "It is finished" and why it was determined it was time for him to become the Lamb of God in order that all those who were to be in those walls were cleansed by his blood. There is NO where it says the 70 were apostle s or were part of the foundation. Read that verse over paying heed to it. I realize that there's a language barrier for you sometime s in the written words.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 24, 2017 10:48:38 GMT -5
It seems to me that Nathan, is caught up in another web if misstatement held by two by twos. The misstatement is that they've said that the workers ministry is the foundation of their church. Well now Nathan shows how that gets a wrong understanding about the biblical foundation of Jesus' church. Jesus said it was his twelve Apostles and prophets who are the foundation of his church. He also said that it was finished in the cross, which Jesus was talking about all the work that the Father had asked him to do. Revelations gives explicit information about who is the foundation of New Jerselem or heaven and it tells if only "twelve" Apostles making that foundation, each having been given a priceless gem status for their layer if foundations. Any apostle, ministry, etc after Jesus' twelve Apostles are to be part of the walls. So that if they don't line up with Jesus the chief cornerstone and the twelve Apostles then they are false prophets and will not be found in the walls of the Heavenly, Holy Jeruselem. Help me out. I'm not understanding the last sentence. Where is the heavenly Jersey and a few 'ifs' when I think you mean 'of'. Don't worry, my phone messes up words too. This is a new phone and it's twice as bad as the old one for it's thinking it knows more then I do about what I'm trying to say.
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