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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 3:14:41 GMT -5
Ive asked a couple of times on TMB what is meant by this statement.
Its not something ive heard before in meetings nor in other churches ive attended.
Could some one enlighten me please?
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 2, 2014 3:44:03 GMT -5
I will second that bubbles..... maybe review will be kind enough to enlighten us ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 2, 2014 4:03:46 GMT -5
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Post by holdmyhand on Sept 2, 2014 5:56:44 GMT -5
If that is the only reference it does quite change the picture
review005 quote:
I note your inability to include the spiritual dimension baptism in the spirit that members of the fellowship have in their support of the ministry. With that included it quite changes the picture you present!
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 6:02:20 GMT -5
Baptism in the holy spirit. I understand. I didnt know workers and friends believe that scripture? Or have things changed? I doubt that is what review005 meant.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 6:04:35 GMT -5
If that is the only reference it does quite change the picture review005 quote:
I note your inability to include the spiritual dimension baptism in the spirit that members of the fellowship have in their support of the ministry. With that included it quite changes the picture you present!
Hmh The reconstructed wouldnt make sense.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 6:05:41 GMT -5
I meant reconstructed sentence wouldnt make sense.
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 7:52:35 GMT -5
If that is the only reference it does quite change the picture review005 quote:
I note your inability to include the spiritual dimension baptism in the spirit that members of the fellowship have in their support of the ministry. With that included it quite changes the picture you present!
Holdmyhand ~ Perhaps we should share that paragraph verbatim for all to see what is contained within this description?
www.ccr.org.au/about-ccr/baptism-in-the-spirit.html
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 8:02:10 GMT -5
The previous article comes from the Catholic Chrismatic Renewal movement within their church. Here are some of the gifts of the Spirit that become manifest within people who experience this deeper spiritual dimension from the same article.
www.ccr.org.au/about-ccr/gifts-of-the-spirit.html
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 8:16:33 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on Sept 2, 2014 9:45:48 GMT -5
Take any useful phrase and someone will put it in a nice, tidy box for you, which is how I view the CCR reference.
"Deeper spiritual dimension" could mean many different things. If someone used that phrase I would ask for more specifics.
I will add though that "worker support" and "deeper spiritual dimension" do not necessarily go together in my view. To obtain a "deeper spiritual dimension" in the Christian context, almost certainly will mean closer personal contact with God in some way. "Worker support" often has more to do with the busy-ness of life, activity, the social sphere, and so on, all things which can take one away from the "spiritual dimension".
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Post by xna on Sept 2, 2014 11:44:12 GMT -5
Ive asked a couple of times on TMB what is meant by this statement. Its not something ive heard before in meetings nor in other churches ive attended. Could some one enlighten me please? Here is how your brain & mind works. So far science hasn't found a spirt or soul. As for soul or spirit workings, pick the one story you like best, or make up you own. youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoY
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 12:15:56 GMT -5
Baptism in the holy spirit. I understand. I didnt know workers and friends believe that scripture? Or have things changed? I doubt that is what review005 meant. Bubbles ~ If they do, that's new to me, too? I remember the Holy Spirit being described as some sort of "force" within ~ perhaps like in Star Wars trilogy ~ "the force be with you" sort of thing. I also highly doubt they are connected to anything with chrismatic connotations, too?
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Post by emy on Sept 2, 2014 13:45:18 GMT -5
Baptism in the holy spirit. I understand. I didnt know workers and friends believe that scripture? Or have things changed? I doubt that is what review005 meant. To the best of my knowledge, yes, the workers believe in baptism in the Holy Spirit. That would be when a believer is indwelt by the Spirit. However, I think the thought is that it can be a gradual process and not necessarily something that happens in one fell swoop. The sudden change is not ruled out, of course.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 14:01:20 GMT -5
Take any useful phrase and someone will put it in a nice, tidy box for you, which is how I view the CCR reference. "Deeper spiritual dimension" could mean many different things. If someone used that phrase I would ask for more specifics. I will add though that "worker support" and "deeper spiritual dimension" do not necessarily go together in my view. To obtain a "deeper spiritual dimension" in the Christian context, almost certainly will mean closer personal contact with God in some way. "Worker support" often has more to do with the busy-ness of life, activity, the social sphere, and so on, all things which can take one away from the "spiritual dimension". Im with you there. If you take the words 'deeper spiritual'my mind thinks of topics like 'deep calling unto deep' or abiding' or 'entering his throne room boldly to find him in the secret place' or 'intimacy' etc. Dimensions? Is there deeper dimensions? Possibly. We are multidimensional beings. (Im sure that will go down like a lump of lead.) 'Spiritual dimensions' yes. I comprehend that. There is only one physical dimension I know and thats the 3rd dimension. Getting back to reviews comment it stil doesnt make sense in relation to giving to workers. You dont need to be 'deep' to give. You dont need to be a mature christian to give. And you dont need to Be in another dimension either. JMT
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Post by kencoolidge on Sept 2, 2014 14:17:08 GMT -5
Ive asked a couple of times on TMB what is meant by this statement. Its not something ive heard before in meetings nor in other churches ive attended. Could some one enlighten me please? Here is how your brain & mind works. So far science hasn't found a spirt or soul. As for soul or spirit workings, pick the one story you like best, or make up you own. youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoYxna Here is some science about the brain and often critisized practice www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEcken
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Post by kencoolidge on Sept 2, 2014 14:27:17 GMT -5
Baptism in the holy spirit. I understand. I didnt know workers and friends believe that scripture? Or have things changed? I doubt that is what review005 meant. To the best of my knowledge, yes, the workers believe in baptism in the Holy Spirit. That would be when a believer is indwelt by the Spirit. However, I think the thought is that it can be a gradual process and not necessarily something that happens in one fell swoop. The sudden change is not ruled out, of course. Bubbles The day of pentecost it seems it was one swell foop for the apostles. For three years the apostles tramped around witnessing all of Jesus ministry then on the day of pentecost they got plugged in. I know there were signs and wonders done by the apostles while Jesus was alive but I think this deeper realationship many have alluded to here on this thread was what they experienced. Peter,James and John and all the others were differnt men because of this event. One thing that is needful for all of us which the workers always did a good job was the need for a complete surrender that this conversion might take place. Without the complete surrender serving God is an abstract thing at best. JMT ken
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Post by emy on Sept 2, 2014 14:29:00 GMT -5
I like this, Faune.
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Post by xna on Sept 2, 2014 15:16:03 GMT -5
Ken, I have seen that video before, and am happy to see work done in this area. Clearly people can enter into altered states. In these altered states physical changes occur and can be observed. There are documented positive benefits from both mediation and prayer, but so far it’s all natural - physical, and not supernatural. I have Hindu friend that reminds me that in part he believes because of the many amazing physical acts done by Buddhist & Hindu monks. He has seen this many times in India, and to him this is proof of gods. To claim the cause is a god or spirit at work still takes a leap of faith. www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAHiYhe1F4 www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/05/how-you-can-train-your-mi_n_3688660.html
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2014 15:21:47 GMT -5
Do any of you believe that this "Deeper spiritual dimension" survives death?
If so, how? In what form?
As xna posted, did you look at the link that he posted?
youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoY
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 15:46:45 GMT -5
Take any useful phrase and someone will put it in a nice, tidy box for you, which is how I view the CCR reference. "Deeper spiritual dimension" could mean many different things. If someone used that phrase I would ask for more specifics. I will add though that "worker support" and "deeper spiritual dimension" do not necessarily go together in my view. To obtain a "deeper spiritual dimension" in the Christian context, almost certainly will mean closer personal contact with God in some way. "Worker support" often has more to do with the busy-ness of life, activity, the social sphere, and so on, all things which can take one away from the "spiritual dimension". What Hat ~ I totally agree with you! In fact, the title of this thread brought back to memory a thread entitled, "For Christians" and created by our dear Shushy in the past. I really enjoyed that thread and it definitely speak clearly of a "deeper spiritual dimension" in the form of closer personal contact with God in some way. Here's the link for anybody who wants to check it out to see what I mean. In fact, I resurrected it today for comparison purposes, since it clearly defines what it means to have "the Kingdom of God" on the inside of you.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21186/christians?page=1
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 16:03:11 GMT -5
Do any of you believe that this "Deeper spiritual dimension" survives death?
If so, how? In what form?
As xna posted, did you look at the link that he posted?youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoY DMG ~ You know what, that actually happened me back in February 2012, but I was having a complete heart block manifesting itself and needed a pacemaker installed to keep me beating at a normal heart rate. My heart rate dropped to 32 and started decreasing even further until emergency surgery corrected the condition.
No doubt people can control their pulse rate through Yoga meditation, too, but what exactly does this prove in relation to this topic being discussed? I would not equate this action on the same level with a "deeper spiritual dimension" which is more like a state of mind one enters into when in deep prayer or meditation? The healing or comforting effect that transcends ones soul and the peace of mind that remains is definitely more like a connection with God in Heaven than anything else, IMHO?
I'm not sure if you are talking about altered states of the mind in the form of swooning or being "slain in the spirit" as you see with these TV evangelists, like Benny Hinn? What I'm talking about has nothing to do with some frenzied state of mind due to emotionalism, but rather is a "spiritual connection" between God and ourselves, resulting in a new outlook on life. I believe this may be what Bubbles was trying to describe earlier, too? However, she can correct me, if I'm wrong?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2014 16:32:18 GMT -5
If that is the only reference it does quite change the picture review005 quote:
I note your inability to include the spiritual dimension baptism in the spirit that members of the fellowship have in their support of the ministry. With that included it quite changes the picture you present!
Holdmyhand ~ Perhaps we should share that paragraph verbatim for all to see what is contained within this description?
www.ccr.org.au/about-ccr/baptism-in-the-spirit.html
I believe most workers and friends believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit...I've heard Acts 1,2,3 preached on many times.....however to correlate money matters between workers and friends to the gift of the Holy Spirit kind of bother me....mainly because Jesus has said that we are to render unto whoever's subscription is on the money and to render unto God the things that are God's. Otherwords, I take it Jesus was saying keep the natural money needs and actions out of the spiritual for God is spirit and money isn't going to buy or sell Him. What Jesus did recccommend us to do was to Love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds and souls. And to love our neighbors. So maybe "review" can put it into ministerial words how this baptism of the HOly Spirit causes the friends to enter into a deeper level of whatever with the workers and thus their monetary gifts are that...gifts OR they are given to God. I want to know how one gives God money!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2014 16:37:56 GMT -5
Baptism in the holy spirit. I understand. I didnt know workers and friends believe that scripture? Or have things changed? I doubt that is what review005 meant. To the best of my knowledge, yes, the workers believe in baptism in the Holy Spirit. That would be when a believer is indwelt by the Spirit. However, I think the thought is that it can be a gradual process and not necessarily something that happens in one fell swoop. The sudden change is not ruled out, of course. I think Emy has it pretty close to right here! I've heard it mentioned by worker and elder friends alike that Jesus was baptized in full by the Holy Spirit or he was embued in full with the Holy Spirit....but that we would not be able to withstand being embued 100 per cent by the Holy Spirit...though no one has brought out what would happen. It was just that we couldn't withstand it. Also some have thought when we are baptized with fire, that that is something to do with the Holy Spirit or simpler explanation is that the Holy Spirit "tests" us in our deeds, words, etc?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2014 16:46:56 GMT -5
Do any of you believe that this "Deeper spiritual dimension" survives death?
If so, how? In what form?
As xna posted, did you look at the link that he posted?youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoY DMG ~ You know what, that actually happened me back in February 2012, but I was having a complete heart block manifesting itself and needed a pacemaker installed to keep me beating at a normal heart rate. My heart rate dropped to 32 and started decreasing even further until emergency surgery corrected the condition.
No doubt people can control their pulse rate through Yoga meditation, too, but what exactly does this prove in relation to this topic being discussed? I would not equate this action on the same level with a "deeper spiritual dimension" which is more like a state of mind one enters into when in deep prayer or meditation? The healing or comforting effect that transcends ones soul and the peace of mind that remains is definitely more like a connection with God in Heaven than anything else, IMHO?
I'm not sure if you are talking about altered states of the mind in the form of swooning or being "slain in the spirit" as you see with these TV evangelists, like Benny Hinn? What I'm talking about has nothing to do with some frenzied state of mind due to emotionalism, but rather is a "spiritual connection" between God and ourselves, resulting in a new outlook on life. I believe this may be what Bubbles was trying to describe earlier, too? However, she can correct me, if I'm wrong?
I agree, Faune...a stronger or deeper spiritual connection is entirely an individual matter....it is the very depth of the intimate relationship people have with their God/Saviour! Until I had my vision of a "living Saviour", I don't think I had any idea that my relationship could be any deeper then the legalistic ways 2x2ism dictates! Now that is sad, however losing the one person who had accepted me entirely as I was, sent me into a search for that closer relationship with my SAviour as I knew that it was one relationship that NO one could take away from me...Only I was the one who could screw that relationship up! And I think that as I sought to understand and know Jesus as he was while on earth, that I'd faced some of the same things he'd gone through, then had my vision, and went through some of the worst things he went through...such as having one of your closest people betray you...that if it weren't for having had the vision of a living Christ I strongly suspect my religiousness would have gone out the window....feeling that God had forsook me, etc sometimes people get into things like that!
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Post by faune on Sept 2, 2014 17:21:31 GMT -5
Ive asked a couple of times on TMB what is meant by this statement. Its not something ive heard before in meetings nor in other churches ive attended. Could some one enlighten me please? Here is how your brain & mind works. So far science hasn't found a spirt or soul. As for soul or spirit workings, pick the one story you like best, or make up you own. youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoYXna ~ What you shared reminded me of a blog I just read on the same matter. However, simply because something cannot be physically measured in ounces as part of the body weight, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exists? Until somebody can actually prove otherwise, I believe I will hold on to my belief in a soul and spirit inside this human temple of a mine called the body.
gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2008/07/why-i-dont-believe-in-the-soul.html
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Post by xna on Sept 2, 2014 17:48:18 GMT -5
Here is how your brain & mind works. So far science hasn't found a spirt or soul. As for soul or spirit workings, pick the one story you like best, or make up you own. youtu.be/oDcZkrl-eoYXna ~ What you shared reminded me of a blog I just read on the same matter. However, simply because something cannot be physically measured in ounces as part of the body weight, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exists? Until somebody can actually prove otherwise, I believe I will hold on to my belief in a soul and spirit inside this human temple of a mine called the body.
gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2008/07/why-i-dont-believe-in-the-soul.html
faune WHOO. ... Danger ... Reading Greta's blog is hardcore feminist atheism. ;-) They have been looking for evidence of a soul for a long time. I think PBS did a special on Duncan MacDougall which first took a stab at it from a scientific approach. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)
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Post by bubbles on Sept 2, 2014 18:09:39 GMT -5
Xna
Maybe we should take this up in couple mths whn I have internet instead of mobile.
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