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Post by fixit on Jan 7, 2014 20:34:22 GMT -5
Graham's letter to Alan Richardson says [Note: 'eldership of the ministry' means 'overseers'] Masterton.
Monday, January 6
This is to advise you that I will not be going to the Wellington mission field this year, or any other field.
This is a conscience decision, based on principle. What I have observed and experienced in the eldership of the ministry over the years can not be reconciled with Scripture and is not according to Christ, and I can not participate in it or support it until this iniquity is purged.
I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
I love the Gospel, the Flock, and I love our Lord Jesus. There is no other reason which would cause me to take this step; I do this solely because of the errors in the eldership which mean that I can not support this and consider myself a faithful servant of God and follower of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps the greatest cause for pessimism about the future of this fellowship is the caliber of so many who have been booted or left in disillusionment. Man-led people just go with the flow and have sweet fellowship with other man-led people. With Spirit-led people, often their conscience and higher calling gets in the way. It takes a live fish to swim upstream.
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Post by snow on Jan 7, 2014 21:21:25 GMT -5
I understand that Graham Thompson has decided that he can no longer remain a member of the ministry in good conscience due to the overseers' actions as rulers and in contradiction to the bible teachings. For many years he has drawn attention to numerous problems in the eldership (overseers) but has been faced with hostility, lack of interest and lack of change. His decision is not related to CSA matters. would you be so kind as to showing the contradictions are that is causing Graham to part with the ministry? So, now are you going to back Graham Thompson in his decision or are you going to turn on him because he has dared to speak negatively about the church and it's ministry?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 23:46:48 GMT -5
You could follow the advice you often give - simply ask Graham. Graham's letter to Alan Richardson says [Note: 'eldership of the ministry' means 'overseers'] Masterton.
Monday, January 6
This is to advise you that I will not be going to the Wellington mission field this year, or any other field.
This is a conscience decision, based on principle. What I have observed and experienced in the eldership of the ministry over the years can not be reconciled with Scripture and is not according to Christ, and I can not participate in it or support it until this iniquity is purged.
I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
I love the Gospel, the Flock, and I love our Lord Jesus. There is no other reason which would cause me to take this step; I do this solely because of the errors in the eldership which mean that I can not support this and consider myself a faithful servant of God and follower of our Lord Jesus Christ.
i would love to know how you came about that letter
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 23:50:12 GMT -5
would you be so kind as to showing the contradictions are that is causing Graham to part with the ministry? So, now are you going to back Graham Thompson in his decision or are you going to turn on him because he has dared to speak negatively about the church and it's ministry? i don't turn on family members just trying to understand what the reason for this drastic move which seems like it had been on his mind for a long time
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 23:51:35 GMT -5
would you be so kind as to showing the contradictions are that is causing Graham to part with the ministry? You could follow the advice you often give - simply ask Graham. i will
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 3:44:12 GMT -5
Is that the complete letter?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 3:50:52 GMT -5
Any info on how Alan Richardson and/or Graham Thompson will be able to support themselves when they leave the work? In general, that often depends on the rumours following them when they leave the work. If they are seen as leaving honourably, there are sometimes friends somewhere who can offer them a job at least to get them started while they get training for something. That isn't always the case though and a worker who started young and leaves in his/her 50's, it's a pretty daunting task to start over from scratch. Hopefully something works out for Mr.Thompson. I have been thinking about this too. The facts as I understand them at present are - Graham comes from down in Christchurch and has a brother Trevor living there. He also has a brother Brian living up in the North Island. So they could be used as contact points if anyone wished to offer money to Graham. He also apparently has a sister Ann who is married to Bram who has been mentioned on the Vietnam thread. It looks like, if Bram is looking to divest himself from Vietnam, that he has now got a new more worthy cause, close to home, across the Tasman Sea. Graham also has good professing cousins (like Virgo), who almost certainly will step up to the plate to provide some help as well. I am also confident Graham will have a good circle of true friends throughout the country who will be feeling for him very much at present. As Clearday says it is pretty daunting to start from scratch again, but Graham is an able, adaptable type and I am hopeful that there will be friends who will offer him some work to get him started. That seems to have happened to others who have left the NZ work in the more recent past.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Jan 8, 2014 4:57:17 GMT -5
Yes , I think it is a shame also. Obviously the head Workers there would rather leave thing under cover , like always. !!
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Post by snow on Jan 8, 2014 11:33:41 GMT -5
So, now are you going to back Graham Thompson in his decision or are you going to turn on him because he has dared to speak negatively about the church and it's ministry? i don't turn on family members just trying to understand what the reason for this drastic move which seems like it had been on his mind for a long time To put it very gently, he seems to have come to the same conclusion about the Truth that a number of people have been trying to point out for quite some time. That's what I see. He sounds like a man with integrity and a conscience and what he has run into with the others makes him to uncomfortable to carry on. I wish him all the best because it won't be easy to start over at his age. I hope he does have the support of the friends so he can make a living and carry on.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 8, 2014 13:08:23 GMT -5
Graham's letter to Alan Richardson says [Note: 'eldership of the ministry' means 'overseers'] Masterton.
Monday, January 6
This is to advise you that I will not be going to the Wellington mission field this year, or any other field.
This is a conscience decision, based on principle. What I have observed and experienced in the eldership of the ministry over the years can not be reconciled with Scripture and is not according to Christ, and I can not participate in it or support it until this iniquity is purged.
I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
I love the Gospel, the Flock, and I love our Lord Jesus. There is no other reason which would cause me to take this step; I do this solely because of the errors in the eldership which mean that I can not support this and consider myself a faithful servant of God and follower of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps the greatest cause for pessimism about the future of this fellowship is the caliber of so many who have been booted or left in disillusionment. Man-led people just go with the flow and have sweet fellowship with other man-led people. With Spirit-led people, often their conscience and higher calling gets in the way. It takes a live fish to swim upstream. It seems that the wrong people get promoted in the system: Those that support the system are highly valued Those that support Christ are not.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 8, 2014 13:15:24 GMT -5
i would love to know how you came about that letter You know, you just said a lot about the system- your first reaction is not worrying about why he quit- but more concerned about the openness of the letter being published here. As someone that has expressed admiration in the character of Graham, don't you admire the character that he is showing now? I sure am. We need more workers like him and less like the system minded workers that only care about the image of the system, rather than the truth of the system. Much like your initial reaction is concern about the image of the system with the letter being published, rather than the truth of what Graham writes or the truth of the situation. Isn't this a great day in the battle for truth? I think so!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 8, 2014 13:48:08 GMT -5
You could follow the advice you often give - simply ask Graham. Graham's letter to Alan Richardson says [Note: 'eldership of the ministry' means 'overseers'] Masterton.
Monday, January 6
This is to advise you that I will not be going to the Wellington mission field this year, or any other field.
This is a conscience decision, based on principle. What I have observed and experienced in the eldership of the ministry over the years can not be reconciled with Scripture and is not according to Christ, and I can not participate in it or support it until this iniquity is purged.
I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
I love the Gospel, the Flock, and I love our Lord Jesus. There is no other reason which would cause me to take this step; I do this solely because of the errors in the eldership which mean that I can not support this and consider myself a faithful servant of God and follower of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is leaving the work for the same reasons that some of us exes left the fellowship. I know CD is expecting to be an influence for the better by staying in and I find that amazing but know that he likely will run into a brick wall just as Graham and some of us exes have run into! But maybe his resignation might bring the light on the secret works of darkness to where other workers who are in power and want to do right, will see those things and work to correct them!
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Post by Mary on Jan 8, 2014 13:49:57 GMT -5
I wonder what 'the lie' is that he is referring to? The lie on here is sometimes referred to as them claiming to being the true church from Jesus day. Anyone have any idea of the lie? The person who he is writing to seems to know what he is talking about.
Like virgo, I also wonder how a private letter can be circulated to others. The person who put it on here is professing so isn't he breaking some sort of confidentiality.
I also wonder if it is the whole letter as it seems to not be complete. No name to say it is Graham but I don't doubt it either but it does not close off.
Graham wrote: I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 14:47:18 GMT -5
i would love to know how you came about that letter You know, you just said a lot about the system- your first reaction is not worrying about why he quit- but more concerned about the openness of the letter being published here. As someone that has expressed admiration in the character of Graham, don't you admire the character that he is showing now? I sure am. We need more workers like him and less like the system minded workers that only care about the image of the system, rather than the truth of the system. Much like your initial reaction is concern about the image of the system with the letter being published, rather than the truth of what Graham writes or the truth of the situation. Isn't this a great day in the battle for truth? I think so! no you are wrong it's about who gave the right for a private letter to be posted here did Graham give the right? did Alan give the right? if i know both of them neither would have, but then again i could be wrong you should know of all people that it has nothing to do with his or anyone elses character but Gods will and His alone frankly i know none who care about any image except that of Christ see the problem is you think you know me but you know piddly squat about me because i am very concerned why he has taken this step and how it has effected him not the ministry even though i see it as great loss in the ministry a great loss in the Kingdom
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 14:57:15 GMT -5
I wonder what 'the lie' is that he is referring to? The lie on here is sometimes referred to as them claiming to being the true church from Jesus day. Anyone have any idea of the lie? The person who he is writing to seems to know what he is talking about. Like virgo, I also wonder how a private letter can be circulated to others. The person who put it on here is professing so isn't he breaking some sort of confidentiality. I also wonder if it is the whole letter as it seems to not be complete. No name to say it is Graham but I don't doubt it either but it does not close off. Graham wrote: I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
i wonder also what the lie is maybe we maybe enlightened by the letter bearer i understood that stevenz wasn't professing but could be wrong about that, if he's not then the plot would thicken
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Post by holdmyhand on Jan 8, 2014 15:27:36 GMT -5
I have no knowledge how Graham's letter became public but if I was in Graham’s situation I would think a leaked letter addressed to the overseer would be the only way the truth regarding the reason for resignation could be made public.
Hoa was also aware of the dishonest stories and twisting of facts used to place the worker system in a good light, he was wise to write his “heart letter” when he resigned from the system, before the rumour mill had started to vilified him
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Post by stevnz on Jan 8, 2014 16:10:08 GMT -5
You know, you just said a lot about the system- your first reaction is not worrying about why he quit- but more concerned about the openness of the letter being published here. As someone that has expressed admiration in the character of Graham, don't you admire the character that he is showing now? I sure am. We need more workers like him and less like the system minded workers that only care about the image of the system, rather than the truth of the system. Much like your initial reaction is concern about the image of the system with the letter being published, rather than the truth of what Graham writes or the truth of the situation. Isn't this a great day in the battle for truth? I think so! no you are wrong it's about who gave the right for a private letter to be posted here did Graham give the right? did Alan give the right? if i know both of them neither would have, but then again i could be wrong you should know of all people that it has nothing to do with his or anyone elses character but Gods will and His alone frankly i know none who care about any image except that of Christ see the problem is you think you know me but you know piddly squat about me because i am very concerned why he has taken this step and how it has effected him not the ministry even though i see it as great loss in the ministry a great loss in the Kingdom Graham issued a transcript (full and exact) of the letter he gave to Alan Richardson by hand on Monday morning and said "I have no objection to it being shared".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 16:37:48 GMT -5
no you are wrong it's about who gave the right for a private letter to be posted here did Graham give the right? did Alan give the right? if i know both of them neither would have, but then again i could be wrong you should know of all people that it has nothing to do with his or anyone elses character but Gods will and His alone frankly i know none who care about any image except that of Christ see the problem is you think you know me but you know piddly squat about me because i am very concerned why he has taken this step and how it has effected him not the ministry even though i see it as great loss in the ministry a great loss in the Kingdom Graham issued a transcript (full and exact) of the letter he gave to Alan Richardson by hand on Monday morning and said "I have no objection to it being shared". Thank you, Sir. I do not doubt you what so ever.
Something I have found is that people who behave like snakes in the grass tend to think that is how others behave also.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:11:59 GMT -5
Only two people can release the letter, Graham or Alan, and it definitely is not going to be Alan as it reflects incredibly poorly on the 2x2 ministry. It's wise for Graham to release it as given his stance on CSA, it would be easy for the ministry leadership to create rumours and innuendo. Without release, Graham would also have been painted as "unwilling" - the standard term that is bandied about regarding anyone that leaves, particularly those who leave by issuing some type of communication. It's important that as many friends as possible in NZ see the letter - perhaps the Auckland friends can undertake this? Graham's stand for Jesus is all that matters. Our prayers and thoughts are with him - we know that Christ will protect Him. It will be interesting to see how the NZ 2x2 leadership respond - they are not well equipped in handling damage control or change management! It was a good idea for Graham to release his real reasons for leaving and thus making it somewhat difficult for 'upper management' to obscure the truth. I surely hope that Graham is given speedy help financially to get him on his feet and into the next phase of his life. I recommend a good cat upon immediately having enough shekels to support one. They add so to one's quality of life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:14:28 GMT -5
I wonder what 'the lie' is that he is referring to? The lie on here is sometimes referred to as them claiming to being the true church from Jesus day. Anyone have any idea of the lie? The person who he is writing to seems to know what he is talking about. Like virgo, I also wonder how a private letter can be circulated to others. The person who put it on here is professing so isn't he breaking some sort of confidentiality. I also wonder if it is the whole letter as it seems to not be complete. No name to say it is Graham but I don't doubt it either but it does not close off. Graham wrote: I have waited until the present to take this step in the expectation that some steps would be taken to address this issue. That being not the case, I am left with no option as I can not support the lie.
i wonder also what the lie is maybe we maybe enlightened by the letter bearer i understood that stevenz wasn't professing but could be wrong about that, if he's not then the plot would thicken Stevenz doesn't need to be professing to care about truth; nor does he need to be professing to be considered a Christian brother or good friend to whoever had the letter and permission to publish it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:37:24 GMT -5
no you are wrong it's about who gave the right for a private letter to be posted here did Graham give the right? did Alan give the right? if i know both of them neither would have, but then again i could be wrong you should know of all people that it has nothing to do with his or anyone elses character but Gods will and His alone frankly i know none who care about any image except that of Christ see the problem is you think you know me but you know piddly squat about me because i am very concerned why he has taken this step and how it has effected him not the ministry even though i see it as great loss in the ministry a great loss in the Kingdom Graham issued a transcript (full and exact) of the letter he gave to Alan Richardson by hand on Monday morning and said "I have no objection to it being shared". thank you i am happy that permission was given
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:40:24 GMT -5
i wonder also what the lie is maybe we maybe enlightened by the letter bearer i understood that stevenz wasn't professing but could be wrong about that, if he's not then the plot would thicken Stevenz doesn't need to be professing to care about truth; nor does he need to be professing to be considered a Christian brother or good friend to whoever had the letter and permission to publish it. did i say he needed to be? even ones in my own family would do the same
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Post by jondough on Jan 8, 2014 18:41:23 GMT -5
You're happy because then rumors cannot be fabricated?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:46:03 GMT -5
Graham issued a transcript (full and exact) of the letter he gave to Alan Richardson by hand on Monday morning and said "I have no objection to it being shared". Thank you, Sir. I do not doubt you what so ever.
Something I have found is that people who behave like snakes in the grass tend to think that is how others behave also.i have no objection to it's release just asking for conformation that the letter had the permission to be released that is all no need to let your imagination run riot, no doubt if you didn't want information about yourself released if it was private
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:51:37 GMT -5
You're happy because then rumors cannot be fabricated? absolutely all this thread had to do was to start with the letter and an undertaking that it was being released with permission an not started with I have just heard a strong rumour
then all this backwards and forwards would not have happened and the truth could have been had at the beginning
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:52:00 GMT -5
quote: i have no objection to it's release just asking for conformation that the letter had the permission to be released that is all no need to let your imagination run riot, no doubt if you didn't want information about yourself released if it was private
Fella, my life is an open book. I have nothing left that is "private" and make no effort to hide anything, so you are speaking for yourself, not for those of us who are trying to live as openly and honestly before all mankind as we possibly can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:54:12 GMT -5
no you are wrong it's about who gave the right for a private letter to be posted here did Graham give the right? did Alan give the right? if i know both of them neither would have, but then again i could be wrong you should know of all people that it has nothing to do with his or anyone elses character but Gods will and His alone frankly i know none who care about any image except that of Christ see the problem is you think you know me but you know piddly squat about me because i am very concerned why he has taken this step and how it has effected him not the ministry even though i see it as great loss in the ministry a great loss in the Kingdom Graham issued a transcript (full and exact) of the letter he gave to Alan Richardson by hand on Monday morning and said "I have no objection to it being shared". did he enlighten you of what the lie was in anyway
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 18:55:39 GMT -5
quote: i have no objection to it's release just asking for conformation that the letter had the permission to be released that is all no need to let your imagination run riot, no doubt if you didn't want information about yourself released if it was private
Fella, my life is an open book. I have nothing left that is "private" and make no effort to hide anything, so you are speaking for yourself, not for those of us who are trying to live as openly and honestly before all mankind as we possibly can. that is not what i was saying and you well now it
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