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Vietnam
Aug 23, 2014 13:09:57 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Aug 23, 2014 13:09:57 GMT -5
Minththanh, I've been meaning to ask when the Vietnamese ladies profess, do the workers try to get them to wear dresses? Or are they satisfied that you clothing is pretty uniform for the whole within your country? The reason I ask, is when a new female convert is made here in the US, the workers get a big bang out of the new female convert trying to put up her short hair into some kind of bun and when she quits wearing makeup and her clothing is is fashioned after the sister workers' fashion! It's been quite entertaining to listen in on the sister workers conversation about the new converts! You question reminded me the first and also the last convention that my daughter attended in Singapore in 2009. Before attending the convention, the elders told the friends that the workers wanted them to dress standardly clothes and to set example to other people when coming in Singapore. The dressing is not a problem with elderly people such as me but it is a problem to young ladies, among them there was my daughter. Sometimes sister workers contributed their ideas or reminded the friends. After the convention, on the day we returned to Viet Nam. While we were waiting the departure time, some workers and friends gathered to sing hymns. I also sat down to sing with them, holding my grandchild in my arms in order my daughter could be free her hands to pack the suitcase. After finishing packing, she went about to look for me and the child in order to bottle feed the baby and give him drug to take (the baby had fever, I and my daughter had taken him to the hospital in Singapore to see the doctor) When seeing my daughter going convention and being strenuous with the baby, uncle Châu saw Nguyện entering to look for me and the child, he was compassionate to her and asked her to join to sing the hymns. He also took the picture of that cosy place. Only a few minutes after that, a young sister worker, named Hải (English name Ruby) came and talked into my ears: “You should tell you daughter to change the dress more secretive!!!...” My daughter with blue dress holding the child, I am sitting beside with the black pullover My daughter was sitting beside me, immediately she stood up and went out the room, because she heard all that the sister worker told me. Remembering this event, my heart was still choked with emotion… I was standing between a worker and my daughter… If my dauther received any encouragement from the convention, then this young sister worker would scattered with nothing left ruthlessly Tommorrow I will tell more about what happenened after the contributing idea about the dress.
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Vietnam
Aug 23, 2014 16:34:20 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 23, 2014 16:34:20 GMT -5
Thanks, MT! I suspected something of this happens most all the time, especially in foreign fields. It would seem to me that accepting the friends in their native preferenced clothing would be appropriate. Kind of like in some countries, they don't insist that the women grow long hair....because it is too hot and long hair makes a good pest nest...etc......the natives of those countries, of course, are of the black races and their hair is always very curly and the shorter it is the tighter the curl!
If we'd look to Jesus' day what the recognized normal clothing for women and men was, then we'd get the right interpretation, I believe. Women wore robes in those days, their robes being longer and like fuller plus having part of it to be pulled up over the head when the woman would go out into public. Now men's robes supposedly were a bit shorter and were constructed so that when men had to "girt" their loins they'd reach through their legs and grab the hem of their robes and pull that through and tuck it into their belt or girdle if they're wearing one...that way they could run or work faster safer, etc. I also noticed that the fishermen and some of the gardening men stripped their robes off and I think someone had mention they wore a loincloth only!
I don't read anywhere where Jesus told any of his female followers that they needed to be sure their robes were "longer" or have the hood or scarf to cover their heads when out in public etc. Nor did he start changing the common clothing of the women. He seemed to leave those personal issues with the women and their fathers or their husbands! Paul wrote some things but we have to look at his experience was in a country and time when the Greeks were mixing with the Jewish folks, etc......from one extreme to the other seemed to be what Paul was advising against!
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Vietnam
Aug 26, 2014 5:06:00 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Aug 26, 2014 5:06:00 GMT -5
Sharontheriches, thank you for your analysing and sharing…there are many issues that we need to think of in order to see which is the most important. Which one brings us to the salvation: the dressing of clothes or the Spirit. Turning back the story of my daughter in Singapore in a convention in 2009. I knew that my daughter had done all her effort and overcome many difficulties in order to attend the convention. Now, everybody in the room could see the young worker coming between me and my daughter and talking something into my ears. Immediately after that my daughter embraced the child out of the room. I couldn’t let my daughter in such state of mind, I ran after her… Looking the picture you can see my parents and my youngest sister sitting in the opposite row, my elder sister on the left of me. When seeing me standing up running after my daughter, my younger sister yelled (perhaps she wanted to let everyone know her spirit): “you should not defend your daughter, you should stand by the workers!!!” Despite what she said, I ran after my daughter, keeping up with her at the top of the staircase. She both walked and cried. My daughter and I were not a type of talking a lot, and everything happened too fast for me to know something to talk to her. I only cried with my daughter. My daughter said: “When I want to endeavor to better myself, I will be trampled into a deep pit…why they much value the outer appearance. Until now when I retell you this story, my tears still shed, I can not express all the state of my heart at that time, the difficulties that I and my daughter experienced before, during and even after the convention. At that time my son would have an access examination into the university so my husband stayed at home with him. My daughter returned to her room in a nearby hotel, I stopped at the banister alone. A moment later, that young lady worker coming near me. When I exposed to her my daughter’s heart and ideas, she said: “Excuse me. Normally I don’t put much attention to the outside/appearance. I don’t know why today I care much about it.” In fact in that convention, there were some foreign ladies wore dresses freshly(I don’t have English word here but I think you understand) even in the gathering. I don’t defend my daughter, but I see that the dresses is not the most important thing. Otherwise, at that time it was not a fellowship gathering, it was only a sudden singing gathering to fill up the empty hours while we waited the bus to the airport. Traveling near the midday, holding the child in fever, of course my daughter had to choose the most appropriate dress in that situation, me also. With that dress it was still normal when she was on board…but a trauma has left a scar in her heart until now. Your question reminded me the verses in the Bible In Psalm 51:6 “ Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb” Jesus reminded the Pharisees . Matthew 23:27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
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Vietnam
Aug 26, 2014 11:03:21 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 26, 2014 11:03:21 GMT -5
Oh MT! Tears are running down my face for the young lady(your daughter) But I've seen similar things happen here in the states...there seemed to be some females that got the disapproving worker looks and challenges and advices, while other females just did mostly what they so well desired! There's always someone who is picked on in a group...so it would seem...it isn't fair, it isn't godly nor is it anything that God would approve of for it does NOT speak of loving one another.
Yes, the 2x2s do put a whole lot of emphasis on the outer appearances....I know that in some places that has been relaxed somewhat...but I strongly suspect when overseers are changed and field workers are changed, that those changed may well be "quietly" returned to the initial preference of some worker. I say this in regards to what happened to my cousin and his second wife...they professed, she had never known of the 2x2's, she was eventually baptize, he'd been baptized as a young child....by him having been married before they were told to wait a year before they took part in the mtg. However the younger worker knew the circumstances of my cousin's divorce which was blatant and purposeful fornication/adultery which freed my cousin to have full privilege in the mtgs. and his wife didn't have anything against here, so the young worker put them to taking full part and as soon as the wife was baptized, they partook of the wine. They went along and were good to go to mtg. but about 4-5 years after they had professed, the older worker they'd professed through went by their home and told them both that they were to stop taking the bread and wine and my cousin was not to take any part at all...his wife could choose a hymn! Talk about making for confusion! But this happens all the time....this is because they have rules but they never write them down, they just make them up as they go.
So I'm very sorry your daughter caught the attention of a sister worker who, herself, had no idea why she eanted to make such an example out of the young mother! Shame should have been hers and she should have apologized to your daughter!
Thank you for sharing more of your times within the 2x2 religion!
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Vietnam
Aug 29, 2014 18:14:44 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2014 18:14:44 GMT -5
A weekend is coming up and I'm hoping our VN friends are having a good weekend. Here in the US it is our Labor Day weekend. I always got a kick out of my husband's replies to people who often asked him what kind of special plans did we have for the Labor Day weekend. He would say "Hmmmmmmm! Labor!"
Best of weekends to you folks in VN!
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Vietnam
Aug 29, 2014 20:38:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 20:38:20 GMT -5
Minththann, Sharon, it is situations like you and others describe here that literally sicken me and make me ashamed at ever having been numbered among "workers.".
While I have no recall of having ever behaved in such a manner, I was surely influence by the same mindset. Repentance, meaning to me "rethinking, reaching a different end goal by changing direction" is something anyone with that mindset should persue, nothing difficult in it quite easy to do in fact, once one sees the need of doing so. Why, oh why am I so soon old and so late understanding? Again, to all, I am sorry.
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Vietnam
Aug 29, 2014 22:23:37 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Aug 29, 2014 22:23:37 GMT -5
Oh MT! Tears are running down my face for the young lady(your daughter) But I've seen similar things happen here in the states...there seemed to be some females that got the disapproving worker looks and challenges and advices, while other females just did mostly what they so well desired! There's always someone who is picked on in a group...so it would seem...it isn't fair, it isn't godly nor is it anything that God would approve of for it does NOT speak of loving one another. Yes, the 2x2s do put a whole lot of emphasis on the outer appearances....I know that in some places that has been relaxed somewhat...but I strongly suspect when overseers are changed and field workers are changed, that those changed may well be "quietly" returned to the initial preference of some worker. I say this in regards to what happened to my cousin and his second wife...they professed, she had never known of the 2x2's, she was eventually baptize, he'd been baptized as a young child....by him having been married before they were told to wait a year before they took part in the mtg. However the younger worker knew the circumstances of my cousin's divorce which was blatant and purposeful fornication/adultery which freed my cousin to have full privilege in the mtgs. and his wife didn't have anything against here, so the young worker put them to taking full part and as soon as the wife was baptized, they partook of the wine. They went along and were good to go to mtg. but about 4-5 years after they had professed, the older worker they'd professed through went by their home and told them both that they were to stop taking the bread and wine and my cousin was not to take any part at all...his wife could choose a hymn! Talk about making for confusion! But this happens all the time....this is because they have rules but they never write them down, they just make them up as they go. So I'm very sorry your daughter caught the attention of a sister worker who, herself, had no idea why she eanted to make such an example out of the young mother! Shame should have been hers and she should have apologized to your daughter! Thank you for sharing more of your times within the 2x2 religion! Sharon… Your sharing reminds me the case of my youngest brother. My youngest brother passed away more than two years ago. There was no more hope or chance for him except the mercy of God. He had divorced his first wife and then remarried a widow. As far as the society concerned, it was better than they lived together but continually argued and disagreed!... After remarrying the second wife, my youngest brother returned to the fellowship meetings, but a lady worker didn’t allow him…she only let him to go to the gospel meeting…He was sad and had stopped going to the meeting since then. In the eyes of many people, he wasn’t a good person, but as for me, God sees into the human hearts, and God has a lot of mercy… God always wants to draw people to Him but not hinders them. I still know clearly an elder, having a gathering in his home with the emblem…but secretly had an affair, hid his lover for himself…and always feared his secret to break out. According to you who does God have mercy to? The gentleman that was respected or the sinful man as my youngest brother who wasn’t worthy of sitting in the fellowship with 2x2 ism…
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Vietnam
Aug 30, 2014 9:44:54 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2014 9:44:54 GMT -5
Oh MT! Tears are running down my face for the young lady(your daughter) But I've seen similar things happen here in the states...there seemed to be some females that got the disapproving worker looks and challenges and advices, while other females just did mostly what they so well desired! There's always someone who is picked on in a group...so it would seem...it isn't fair, it isn't godly nor is it anything that God would approve of for it does NOT speak of loving one another. Yes, the 2x2s do put a whole lot of emphasis on the outer appearances....I know that in some places that has been relaxed somewhat...but I strongly suspect when overseers are changed and field workers are changed, that those changed may well be "quietly" returned to the initial preference of some worker. I say this in regards to what happened to my cousin and his second wife...they professed, she had never known of the 2x2's, she was eventually baptize, he'd been baptized as a young child....by him having been married before they were told to wait a year before they took part in the mtg. However the younger worker knew the circumstances of my cousin's divorce which was blatant and purposeful fornication/adultery which freed my cousin to have full privilege in the mtgs. and his wife didn't have anything against here, so the young worker put them to taking full part and as soon as the wife was baptized, they partook of the wine. They went along and were good to go to mtg. but about 4-5 years after they had professed, the older worker they'd professed through went by their home and told them both that they were to stop taking the bread and wine and my cousin was not to take any part at all...his wife could choose a hymn! Talk about making for confusion! But this happens all the time....this is because they have rules but they never write them down, they just make them up as they go. So I'm very sorry your daughter caught the attention of a sister worker who, herself, had no idea why she eanted to make such an example out of the young mother! Shame should have been hers and she should have apologized to your daughter! Thank you for sharing more of your times within the 2x2 religion! Sharon… Your sharing reminds me the case of my youngest brother. My youngest brother passed away more than two years ago. There was no more hope or chance for him except the mercy of God. He had divorced his first wife and then remarried a widow. As far as the society concerned, it was better than they lived together but continually argued and disagreed!... After remarrying the second wife, my youngest brother returned to the fellowship meetings, but a lady worker didn’t allow him…she only let him to go to the gospel meeting…He was sad and had stopped going to the meeting since then. In the eyes of many people, he wasn’t a good person, but as for me, God sees into the human hearts, and God has a lot of mercy… God always wants to draw people to Him but not hinders them. I still know clearly an elder, having a gathering in his home with the emblem…but secretly had an affair, hid his lover for himself…and always feared his secret to break out. According to you who does God have mercy to? The gentleman that was respected or the sinful man as my youngest brother who wasn’t worthy of sitting in the fellowship with 2x2 ism… I would say that the gentleman that was respected by the workers was already receiving his reward. However your youngest brother received God's greatest mercy in leading him out of something that has too much unwritten rules that change according to which worker is in the situation at the time. Now your youngest brother can seek his Father in his own way, go to other Christian based churches and/or meet with you and your group of loving Jesus' followers! It's kind of like God had to shake me loose twice! The first time I was offended by an elder and it was a horrible incident that brought it about. I can't share that because I don't want to recapture that feeling of bitterness! So I left the 2x2s, I got married outside the fellowship, was out for a bit over 20 yrs. Then things took place that I felt a need to get back in touch with God, and having been well indoctrinated by the 2x2 unwritten rules, that one has to be in the 2x2s or they're bound for hell, so I reprofessed and stayed in a bit over 20 years until I found the real beginnings of the 2x2s and then found out about all the criminal actions by the workers that had been hidden under the proverbial carpet. So again with prayer constantly to God for Him to show me that it was best for me to exit the fellowship, God gave me several signs that was what it should be....so I exited it and am not sorry. I do miss my Sun. mtg. friends, esp. the 2 elders who we'd sit and have another mtg. after everybody else left....just really doing a very indepth bible study about some things one of us might have found during the past week. So God can lead us out and lead us in...the main thing I want to do is just be willing, but I will always pray many times to God that He prove to me that that is what He wants me to do. And whether anybody wants to believe that He does or doesn't, I believe it...and it's worked for me! Thanks for sharing again, MT! I don't want us to lose contact with you lovely folks!
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Vietnam
Aug 30, 2014 9:51:47 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 30, 2014 9:51:47 GMT -5
Minththann, Sharon, it is situations like you and others describe here that literally sicken me and make me ashamed at ever having been numbered among "workers.".
While I have no recall of having ever behaved in such a manner, I was surely influence by the same mindset. Repentance, meaning to me "rethinking, reaching a different end goal by changing direction" is something anyone with that mindset should persue, nothing difficult in it quite easy to do in fact, once one sees the need of doing so. Why, oh why am I so soon old and so late understanding? Again, to all, I am sorry. Dennis, I'm sorry that the load of what the workers were taught and were to do is upon you! I feel God removed you from that which you had no control over and He has freed you of all of that sorrow and shame....please, I don't know that any of us feel that you should bear any blame in all of this. I feel terrible about the workers that have passed on into eternity that will have to come face to face of that and what may be required of them, but the workers who have reasoned the truth out for themselves before their life is over, such as you have done are not to carry that blame. It's kind of like Jesus and Stephen both said..."Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Also remember that every sin but one is forgiveable and is forgiven when one asks for that forgiveness. And I will say I can understand that sometimes we can't forgive ourselves and that God wouldn't want us to not do. A friend in another state told me one time that when I brought up that sin of mine before God over and over that it likely pains God for we haven't fully accept the forgiveness that is ours when we repent and worse thing is that we can not forgive ourselves...this would pain the heart of God, for He has made the provisions for forgiveness!
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Vietnam
Sept 1, 2014 8:57:18 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 1, 2014 8:57:18 GMT -5
Isn't it great that man looks on the outward appearance and God looks upon the heart. Thanks for sharing MT - we are praying for you all continually. Since you have started posting, have you noticed any different behaviour or attitude towards you by the folk who still go to 2x2 meetings? Have you heard of any 2x2 workers telling folk who still go to 2x2 meetings not to fellowship with you etc It is fairly typical behaviour so would be interesting to hear your experience on this. You ask question but I’m sure you have known the answer…for in my opinion you have experienced as I did. I am glad because through their behaviours to me I am sure that they have been following closely the stories I have posted on TMB. I am also glad and hope they will behave better to the native workers, they will value what the native workers had done and they will not destroy more the work of God here. In my country, we have the expression: “when we eat fruits, remember the fruit tree grower”…these overseers (Darrel Turner, Lyle Schultz…)have done the contrary. Some people said to me that they couldn’t come over my house to have a meal or stay at my house because I posted on TMB. The others told me many stories in the effect hat they didn’t agree with these overseers but didn’t include their name in the posts. How can I post if they don’t allow me to mention their real persons and their real stories. Even though I will post those that are my own experiences, and the activities of golden friends. Ross Bowden I am sure you and many others have the same joy as us to get through these experiences and discover the real truth. I have left 2x2 so it is not important how their behaviour or attitude to us is.
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Vietnam
Sept 5, 2014 5:19:13 GMT -5
Post by xuanhoan on Sept 5, 2014 5:19:13 GMT -5
Uncle Chau returned to Vietnam more than one month ago and then they expelled him to Cambodia again. I wonder why they behaved so cruel to him because his health is not good. He has had a cough. I think he will open his eyes to see the 2x2 religion is only a man made organisation.
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Vietnam
Sept 5, 2014 8:54:26 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Sept 5, 2014 8:54:26 GMT -5
Uncle Chau returned to Vietnam more than one month ago and then they expelled him to Cambodia again. I wonder why they behaved so cruel to him because his health is not good. He has had a cough. I think he will open his eyes to see the 2x2 religion is only a man made organisation. That is so sad...shipping him off to Cambodia again. Is his companion having him babysit again?
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Vietnam
Sept 5, 2014 11:57:48 GMT -5
Post by xuanhoan on Sept 5, 2014 11:57:48 GMT -5
It's a lot of waste for him to babysit in Cambodia. People in Vietnam need him to bring the gospel to them. Uncle Chau cannot speak Cambodian. His companion is worth the age of his son but has control on him. I can not understand. Every value upside down in 2x2ism.
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Post by Persona non grata on Sept 5, 2014 14:12:51 GMT -5
Perhaps, the Canadians workers believe they can solve the problems in VN without uncle Chau help. I had a nice visit with Anne M. who labored in VN at Boring convention last month. Let us wait and see how things and the gospel work go for the friends in VN. I had a nice, long with uncle Chau a few months ago in Portland. Many workers and the friends around the world have their eyes on the work progress in VN. Uncle Chau, Lyle S. and Anne have invited me to come to VN for a visit. I would love to go to VN and see many workers and friends, I have heard for many years. I haven't been back to VN since 1973. I hope you have the opportunity to visit VN again, Nathan. Best wishes!
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Post by Greg on Sept 5, 2014 15:04:25 GMT -5
Perhaps, the Canadians workers believe they can solve the problems in VN without uncle Chau help. I had a nice visit with Anne M. who labored in VN at Boring convention last month. Let us wait and see how things and the gospel work go for the friends in VN. I had a nice, long with uncle Chau a few months ago in Portland. Many workers and the friends around the world have their eyes on the work progress in VN. Uncle Chau, Lyle S. and Anne have invited me to come to VN for a visit. I would love to go to VN and see many workers and friends, I have heard for many years. I haven't been back to VN since 1973. I think a few weeks ago you were pretty sure Uncle Chau would be restored as a VN worker upon his return.
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Vietnam
Sept 5, 2014 20:18:45 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 5, 2014 20:18:45 GMT -5
Perhaps, the Canadians workers believe they can solve the problems in VN without uncle Chau help. I had a nice visit with Anne M. who labored in VN at Boring convention last month. Let us wait and see how things and the gospel work go for the friends in VN. I had a nice, long with uncle Chau a few months ago in Portland. Many workers and the friends around the world have their eyes on the work progress in VN. Uncle Chau, Lyle S. and Anne have invited me to come to VN for a visit. I would love to go to VN and see many workers and friends, I have heard for many years. I haven't been back to VN since 1973. Nathan... Anne.M is a sister worker witnessed the happenings at my house and knew things I posted on TMB because we were in her field. We saw her happiness when she first came to Vietnam…and her sadness after the mess broke out. We still appreciate her because when others dare not come to our house, she still stops by… at least she knows how we are. I think you should come to VN… everything is OK and they will stretch red carpet to welcome you…and you have the priority to meet some people who are full of zeal about worshiping 2x2ism in VN. Nathan I also would like to invite you come to our house. It is easy to find, near the center of the city. Dare you? You will hear by your own ears many recordings and many things the overseers want to conceal.
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Vietnam
Sept 5, 2014 20:43:11 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 5, 2014 20:43:11 GMT -5
By accident I knew uncle Châu would left for Cambodia only one day before. I met him and said that the next morning I wanted to see him off at the bus station. Both uncle Chau and my sister didn’t want me to come there…my sister said that she was afraid I would stir up everything…in fact I was very upset when I knew this information. Except those who serve these Canadian overseers, it seemed that everyone felt sorry for him because he was old, not in good health and having the problem with his eyes!!! Uncle Chau asked me not mention him on TMB but he didn’t tell my husband, Xuân Hoàn. I don’t know if he knew that Xuân Hoàn also a member on TMB. There are still many things relating to uncle Chau that I felt pressed, may God intervene.
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Post by Greg on Sept 5, 2014 22:19:48 GMT -5
Uncle Chau asked me not mention him on TMB but he didn’t tell my husband, Xuân Hoàn. Do not get caught up in word games. Just honor his request as fully as you can. This includes your husband.
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Vietnam
Sept 6, 2014 11:53:56 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 6, 2014 11:53:56 GMT -5
It's a lot of waste for him to babysit in Cambodia. People in Vietnam need him to bring the gospel to them. Uncle Chau cannot speak Cambodian. His companion is worth the age of his son but has control on him. I can not understand. Every value upside down in 2x2ism. American overseer Dave Schultz pressured uncle Chau to get up before hundreds of people and proclaim that he was a 2x2 strong and steady...now the overseer has sent him back to his country in shame! Why? Perhaps in the long run DS is afraid of uncle Chau and the hold that the friends have on uncle Chau in love and respect of him! The overseers are working their best to destroy the work that uncle Chau and uncle Hoa of 40 years that they led people to Christ, not to the workers and this is a strong battle for the overseers to have to face...they have to put the fear of man into those who are still of the profession of 2x2 ism! They will find that God will eventually defeat their thrust for control of such a poor people with pure hearts toward their God and Saviour! The overseers will use uncle Chau's reassertion in sermon in the USA that he is definitely strong believer in the 2x2 religion against him should he rise up and demand anything that even his health would need! This is pure torture of an elderly sick man! This would and should be taken to the leaders of VN and since uncle Chau is still the VN recognized leader of the 2x2 religion, the VN government needs to ship and deport all American and Canadian workers regardless of their intent of service in VN! They are NOT helping the souls of the 2x2 profession in VN, they are really confusing them and causing them serious problems within their country's way of taking care of their citizenas. I feel that if this keeps up that the VN authorities will dispel every American or other foreigner from the VN shores and well they should! The openness of reception of the2x2 workers has been abused over and over again.....they are lying to the government for their reason to be in VN to start with...this alone cancels any right of God's blessing on their work there in VN! Nathan, you stay out of it, and you stay at home, please! there is need that your favoritism for the 2x2 workers not get into the equation! This will only work hardship for your kith and kin in VN! Stay home! Please!
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Vietnam
Sept 6, 2014 14:13:34 GMT -5
Post by emy on Sept 6, 2014 14:13:34 GMT -5
American overseer Dave Schultz pressured uncle Chau to get up before hundreds of people and proclaim that he was a 2x2 strong and steady...now the overseer has sent him back to his country in shame! Why? Perhaps in the long run DS is afraid of uncle Chau and the hold that the friends have on uncle Chau in love and respect of him! The overseers are working their best to destroy the work that uncle Chau and uncle Hoa of 40 years that they led people to Christ, not to the workers and this is a strong battle for the overseers to have to face...they have to put the fear of man into those who are still of the profession of 2x2 ism! They will find that God will eventually defeat their thrust for control of such a poor people with pure hearts toward their God and Saviour! The overseers will use uncle Chau's reassertion in sermon in the USA that he is definitely strong believer in the 2x2 religion against him should he rise up and demand anything that even his health would need! This is pure torture of an elderly sick man! This would and should be taken to the leaders of VN and since uncle Chau is still the VN recognized leader of the 2x2 religion, the VN government needs to ship and deport all American and Canadian workers regardless of their intent of service in VN! They are NOT helping the souls of the 2x2 profession in VN, they are really confusing them and causing them serious problems within their country's way of taking care of their citizenas. I feel that if this keeps up that the VN authorities will dispel every American or other foreigner from the VN shores and well they should! The openness of reception of the2x2 workers has been abused over and over again.....they are lying to the government for their reason to be in VN to start with...this alone cancels any right of God's blessing on their work there in VN! Nathan, you stay out of it, and you stay at home, please! there is need that your favoritism for the 2x2 workers not get into the equation! This will only work hardship for your kith and kin in VN! Stay home! Please! I find the statements you made (underlined) very over the top. Do you have some reliable soources to back them up? Nathan, you stay out of it, and you stay at home, please! there is need that your favoritism for the 2x2 workers not get into the equation! This will only work hardship for your kith and kin in VN! Stay home! Please! I find this statement to Nathan arrogant and rude. Are you afraid he will look at both sides and see something different? Are his relatives even involved in any of the dispute?
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Vietnam
Sept 6, 2014 17:22:49 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 6, 2014 17:22:49 GMT -5
American overseer Dave Schultz pressured uncle Chau to get up before hundreds of people and proclaim that he was a 2x2 strong and steady...now the overseer has sent him back to his country in shame! Why? Perhaps in the long run DS is afraid of uncle Chau and the hold that the friends have on uncle Chau in love and respect of him! The overseers are working their best to destroy the work that uncle Chau and uncle Hoa of 40 years that they led people to Christ, not to the workers and this is a strong battle for the overseers to have to face...they have to put the fear of man into those who are still of the profession of 2x2 ism! They will find that God will eventually defeat their thrust for control of such a poor people with pure hearts toward their God and Saviour! The overseers will use uncle Chau's reassertion in sermon in the USA that he is definitely strong believer in the 2x2 religion against him should he rise up and demand anything that even his health would need! This is pure torture of an elderly sick man! This would and should be taken to the leaders of VN and since uncle Chau is still the VN recognized leader of the 2x2 religion, the VN government needs to ship and deport all American and Canadian workers regardless of their intent of service in VN! They are NOT helping the souls of the 2x2 profession in VN, they are really confusing them and causing them serious problems within their country's way of taking care of their citizenas. I feel that if this keeps up that the VN authorities will dispel every American or other foreigner from the VN shores and well they should! The openness of reception of the2x2 workers has been abused over and over again.....they are lying to the government for their reason to be in VN to start with...this alone cancels any right of God's blessing on their work there in VN! Nathan, you stay out of it, and you stay at home, please! there is need that your favoritism for the 2x2 workers not get into the equation! This will only work hardship for your kith and kin in VN! Stay home! Please! I find the statements you made (underlined) very over the top. Do you have some reliable soources to back them up? Nathan, you stay out of it, and you stay at home, please! there is need that your favoritism for the 2x2 workers not get into the equation! This will only work hardship for your kith and kin in VN! Stay home! Please! I find this statement to Nathan arrogant and rude. Are you afraid he will look at both sides and see something different? Are his relatives even involved in any of the dispute?
My reasons for beggin Nathan to stay out of it is what he has already done here in the states, He admitted that in his privileges to visit with the powers that are over uncle Chau as uncle Chau was in the states, that he didn't even ask questions, nor push the issue. What do you think he would do then if he were to walk into the situation in VN? OF course, he'd be quiet and allow the powers that be use his name and profession of 2x2ism against uncle Chau. Emy the biggest issue that people keep forgetting is that according to the government authorities in VN is that uncle is their recognized head of the 2x2 religion within VN! NOw we have American and Canadian workers disobeying the VN government by sending uncle Chau out of VN! Besides the lack of human compassion the poor ole fellow needs due to his age and physical health! This will only work against the 2x2 religion in VN in the long run! They are doing things that will get all evangelists from all other churches and themselves kicked out of VN....then what is to happen to those poor souls who were cared for by uncle Chau and uncle Hoa? IF the overseers were at all interested int he 2x2ism faith in the long run, they would NOT be doing what they're doing, but no all they can think about is gaining full control of the 2x2ism and if they've gotten the last profession of faith from uncle Chau in the states during a large convs. now they've silencing him by sending him to a country where he cannot say a word for he cannot speak the language! How do you think Nathan could help that situation in VN when he couldn't even begin to discuss it while uncle Chau was in the states. Nathan did not see an opportunity to discuss this with the one overseer that might be of enough power to change things...we're taking about Dale Schultz now.....so my advice is that Nathan would be NO help in VN and IF he even tried he'd be pressured until he would have to buckle down under the overseers or make even his own life miserable! Nathan is not a diplomat, Emy....he believes what he believes and we all respect him for holding to his belief, however that does not give him the right weapons to do a thing for the 2x2s or uncle Chau even in VN. The only way uncle Chau will be rescued from Cambodia is for the VN government to demand he returns to his position of head of the religion as they've assigned and that the Americans and Canadians leave him in VN! The VN government will likely be the only one who can help the old man to get to go home for his last years of life! In essence, uncle Chau was pressured to preach his profession of the 2x2 beliefs in American and now his tongue is stilled by sending him to Cambodia...so his last testimony will be what he said at conv. in the US........would you like to done that way. That is about as cruel as some tormenters do and that is to cut someone's tongue out to where they will never say another word. Can you and anybody else understand his fear of having this said on TMB? I speak from the face of it all lacking compassion of an old frail man who surely has few years but has been manipulated into being nothing more then a silent old man now!
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Vietnam
Sept 6, 2014 17:28:04 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 6, 2014 17:28:04 GMT -5
I think a few weeks ago you were pretty sure Uncle Chau would be restored as a VN worker upon his return. Yes, We (Chau and I) thought so too. VN and Cambodia workers are on the same staff and under the same Overseer. Uncle Chau will go back and forth between VN and Cambodia field. I wish they had allowed uncle Chau to stay in VN where he could be very useful there. Too bad the plan (VN gov't would not grant him visa) didn't work out for Uncle Chau to come to the USA and labor a few years back. He would have enjoyed laboring in Calf. where many Vietnamese friends are and his own family living in this state also.Emy, this is just one of the examples of why I'm begging Nathan to not go to VN with the intent to get mixed into the mix......it is evident that every place that uncle Chau would have liked to spend his last days in the work has been ripped away from him...Nathan thinking that it would be so was a false hope to uncle Chau....can you now see the why I beg Nathan not to go and get mixed up in it? The overseers are going to do what they want to do and if there is anyone but themselves that thinks or suggests a solution to a problem they will find a way to stop that up for ever and do it opposite just to prove their own controlling powers. We have some power mad folks here! It is the same as the Alberta excommunication and worse! They learned how to do that and now they're learning just how cruel and discompassionate they can be now! There certainly can be NO Godly blessing upon such behaviours, never!
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Vietnam
Sept 6, 2014 18:53:00 GMT -5
Post by Greg on Sept 6, 2014 18:53:00 GMT -5
American overseer Dave Schultz pressured uncle Chau to get up before hundreds of people and proclaim that he was a 2x2 strong and steady... How do you know this?
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Vietnam
Sept 7, 2014 1:59:08 GMT -5
Post by Roselyn T on Sept 7, 2014 1:59:08 GMT -5
The dinner at one of the Vietnamese friends home with Lyle S. and 3 Oregon workers went VERY nice. We talked about the gentle, down to earth manner of Stantley Sharpe, who was Lyle S. overseer in SK, Canada. Uncle Stanley was well loved and respected by MANY of the friends. The friends and workers still remember and talk about him. I find Lyle is very easy to talk with, very honest when I asked him questions how the two Americans workers (Mike T. and Melissa K.) who were in VN doing these days? Mike is doing better, he would like to return to VN someday if his health is improving. MK will be laboring in another country in Asia soon.
Lyle S. has heard about me, when I professed under the gospel tree on the Island of Guam.
We didn't talk or discuss anything about the situation in VN. It was a good, friendly first visit and contact with Lyle. He invites me to VN and I would love to go back there someday. Nathan you said here that "Lyle S. has heard about me, when I professed under the gospel tree on the Island of Guam." Then in your last post you said he didn't know who you were ? So which one is it ? " ~~ One of the Vietnamese friends invited me, our church elders to her home for a meal with 4 workers. Lyle S. and three other Oregon workers. I didn't go there to cause trouble, just for a meal and a chance to meet Lyle in person. Lyle didn't know who I was. I am glad to have met Lyle and found he was very down to earth, easy to talk to. I asked Lyle of different workers health and he answered me honestly. I found our visit was very pleasant and he encouraged me to visit VN because I told him the last time I was there in 1973.."
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 7, 2014 6:43:20 GMT -5
The dinner at one of the Vietnamese friends home with Lyle S. and 3 Oregon workers went VERY nice. We talked about the gentle, down to earth manner of Stantley Sharpe, who was Lyle S. overseer in SK, Canada. Uncle Stanley was well loved and respected by MANY of the friends. The friends and workers still remember and talk about him. I find Lyle is very easy to talk with, very honest when I asked him questions how the two Americans workers (Mike T. and Melissa K.) who were in VN doing these days? Mike is doing better, he would like to return to VN someday if his health is improving. MK will be laboring in another country in Asia soon.
Lyle S. has heard about me, when I professed under the gospel tree on the Island of Guam.
We didn't talk or discuss anything about the situation in VN. It was a good, friendly first visit and contact with Lyle. He invites me to VN and I would love to go back there someday. Nathan you said here that "Lyle S. has heard about me, when I professed under the gospel tree on the Island of Guam." Then in your last post you said he didn't know who you were ? So which one is it ? " ~~ One of the Vietnamese friends invited me, our church elders to her home for a meal with 4 workers. Lyle S. and three other Oregon workers. I didn't go there to cause trouble, just for a meal and a chance to meet Lyle in person. Lyle didn't know who I was. I am glad to have met Lyle and found he was very down to earth, easy to talk to. I asked Lyle of different workers health and he answered me honestly. I found our visit was very pleasant and he encouraged me to visit VN because I told him the last time I was there in 1973.." Thanks for noticing this, IS! These things have been very much all throughout the VN issue as far as NB is concerned. His loyalties are well known and I respect him for that...however he is in NO position to play peacemaker at all for he crumbles when the powers that be turn their collective eye upon him or he perceives that they may do so quickly! That's fine as long as it remains in NB's home court! But for him to go over there as some kind of emissary to broker peace between the workers who are set upon the path they've set upon and those who have weathered 40 yrs. of 2x2 fellowship without such plans and controls, there is need to keep the number of players in the field as they are, at the very least. We see where uncle Hoa has taken himself...right out of the workers' playing field and more of God's power to him, I pray! I do not feel that uncle Chau really perceives the situation correctly! He knows his purpose when he professed many years ago and like NB he is holding onto that with strong hand and feet for he feels if he doesn't then he will be bound for hell...the preaching has reached him many years ago, regardless of who preached it...whether the worker was loved or was motivated by power madness as we see in the example of the Alberta excommunication and that which has came out of VN now! Maybe somebody can explain how that while uncle Chau is in Cambodia that he is fulfilling the VN authorities legal recognition of him and his church? Doesn't sound like to me that VN and Cambodia share legal authorities, do they? No, NB has shown wavering of his thoughts and ideas all throughout this thread....he was sure of one thing, then when that didn't pan out, he would try to explain that away! This is no way to put confidence into his abilities as peace broker for the VN scandal amongst the overseers who are into just making sure they gain the control of the VN Friends and workers! Why is the control necessary? Is it just a deep seated need to be just up one manship for one worker over another? If that is the case then God surely will not bless that as it is not the spirit of a servant......and I've seen little God blessing of the workers in VN so far. I feel strongly about NB's ability to do anything more then to quietly sit back and watch the workers play their little games of gaining control......he is strong in his 2x2 profession and that is okay, but he cannot help the situation in VN due to his inability to hold to one viewpoint as IS showed above and as I've tried to show. I am not against NB, but I feel he could jeopardize uncle Chau and the friends in VN more by going there and appear friendly then have to pull back due to his perception fromt eh overseers that he isn't pleasing them! That;'s just how some 2x2s do one another....it's old hat......then NB finds himself in an uncomfortable position and will find himself sitting on the fence as far as his home workers may be concerned! I feel they cannot be all that pleased that he is on TMB nor his website either...but there's a reason they allow him to go on.....but at what expense in the long run?
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Vietnam
Sept 7, 2014 11:35:33 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 7, 2014 11:35:33 GMT -5
We have just returned from Di Linh...What a wonderful gathering of golden friends. God made our cup overflow. We can not express all our heart of grateful to God for His keeping and provision. We will share our heart and pictures when we are settled.
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Vietnam
Sept 7, 2014 22:18:51 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 7, 2014 22:18:51 GMT -5
Uncle Chau asked me not mention him on TMB but he didn’t tell my husband, Xuân Hoàn. Do not get caught up in word games. Just honor his request as fully as you can. This includes your husband. I was surprised the reason why uncle Châu didn't asked my husband not tell him on TMB, they had long time together while my husband restore his computer. One of the reasons why my husband had stroke was he so sad to see "the cruelty" of these overseers put upon uncle Châu. I think my husband was pressed on their such treatment to uncle Chau. He said to me he would share a little on TMB but when I returned from work I didn't expect he shared the event uncle Chau was expelled to Cambodia. I can't prevent him from telling the truth.
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Vietnam
Sept 7, 2014 23:29:45 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Sept 7, 2014 23:29:45 GMT -5
Nathan... Anne.M is a sister worker witnessed the happenings at my house and knew things I posted on TMB because we were in her field. We saw her happiness when she first came to Vietnam…and her sadness after the mess broke out. We still appreciate her because when others dare not come to our house, she still stops by… at least she knows how we are. I think you should come to VN… everything is OK and they will stretch red carpet to welcome you…and you have the priority to meet some people who are full of zeal about worshiping 2x2ism in VN. Nathan I also would like to invite you come to our house. It is easy to find, near the center of the city. Dare you? You will hear by your own ears many recordings and many things the overseers want to conceal. I remember you mentioned Anne on TMB so that was why I wanted to meet her in person at Boring convention last month. We discussed a little about the situation in VN. She is very special sister, down to earth, very easy to talk to. Thank you for your invitation and I would love to meet your family, parents which I have heard a lot about through the years and I'd like to see Uncle Hoa also. I appreciate for all of the wonderful, hard work you, your parents, uncle Hoa had put into the 2x2 fellowship. We still can be friends, right?Oh yes... I dare not consider anyone as my enemy. We always be friends even where we are, just only obey the teachings in the Bible and keep true with God, we will meet together in unity with Him. Nathan B
Now we long for your return, to see if you have enough courage to meet us... We will invite you a meal to meet our family, my parents and uncle Hoa as well. You will see. * Uncle Hoa is very calm, talks very litlle about himself, and never persuades any person if they don't agree with him, so he easily stops talking if he feels it wastes his time. * My father can talk with you through hours with what belongs to The Truth... just only The Truth. My mother is always silent. * My husband is very friendly in action... doesn't want to talk much even who is familiar or strange. * I can talk and answer anything you want to know, if I have time. Once again... You are welcome to VN, especially to my own family.
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