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Atheism
Dec 16, 2012 23:13:24 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 16, 2012 23:13:24 GMT -5
Again, this is what you believe but can you show that it is true? The fact that mankind believes he is real is evidence that he is real . . . The list of things that mankind believes and has believed is long and varied, from Helios driving his quadriga across the sky (when Apollo was too busy) to Aegaeus being responsible for storms at sea. People believing in myths is nothing new nor does it offer much in the line of proof. So the story goes.
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Atheism
Dec 16, 2012 23:18:02 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 16, 2012 23:18:02 GMT -5
I did. The maker of heaven and earth. Is your god omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnibenevolent?
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Atheism
Dec 16, 2012 23:21:16 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 16, 2012 23:21:16 GMT -5
People are looking for the answer to questions, no doubt. But "Why are we here?" is not a question that everyone is asking. Sure it is. Geo-political conflict would be non-existent if it were not so. You will have to explain how/why this is true.
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 13:15:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 13:15:40 GMT -5
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 13:27:22 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 17, 2012 13:27:22 GMT -5
Do people really wonder about this? Why would anyone think there was a point of man's existence?
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 15:05:06 GMT -5
Post by emy on Dec 17, 2012 15:05:06 GMT -5
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 15:34:14 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 17, 2012 15:34:14 GMT -5
True, when people are anxious, worried about what is happening & they feel incapable of controlling their environment, they are much more inclined to find something to take control and most of the time it is a god
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 16:02:01 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 16:02:01 GMT -5
Very interesting , emy. I zoomed in on this: It may be that in Dr. Barber's data, intelligence, as measured by standardized intelligence tests, is correlated with atheism, but atheism is not necessarily indicative of higher intelligence. It is typically indicative of a certain deftness with left-brain functions, but may not include highly evolved right-brain or whole-brain capacity, or what might be called heart-brain capacity. (I am told there is good research now suggesting the existence of an intelligence field that is heart-based rather than brain-based, though I have not yet read any of that research.) Regular meditation has been shown to boost intellectual functioning, and highly trained meditators, such as Buddhist monks, have been shown to exhibit superior brain function and greater control over their physiology and emotions than typical humans.
Atheists tend to take only physically-perceivable phenomena as their data. Then they apply left-brain-based reasoning and logic to interpret it. This can be viewed as a limited way of operating in the world since there are many phenomena that cannot be perceived or explained by the limited sensing capacities of the physical organs and the limited logic of the brain-mind. As science advances--for example, as it is now doing in the realms of quantum and related physics fields--atheism will eventually go out the window too, because it's just one more limited viewpoint, like anything else.
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 16:40:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 16:40:56 GMT -5
Do people really wonder about this? Why would anyone think there was a point of man's existence? I am sure lots of believers do. I believe that God created us in His own image for His glory, for His pleasure and for a purpose. He blessed man and asked him to increase, multiply and replenish the earth after He destroyed it with a flood, because of man's wickedness. Eccl 12:13 may well be a reference point also. The whole duty of man and man doing God's will.
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Atheism
Dec 17, 2012 20:43:44 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 17, 2012 20:43:44 GMT -5
I am told there is good research now suggesting the existence of an intelligence field that is heart-based rather than brain-based, though I have not yet read any of that research. From the opening paragraph of a heart-based intelligence paper: Today we know that the physical heart is also the seat of many important human qualities. Our perceptions, mental and emotional attitudes, immune system, reaction times, and decision-making abilities are all directly related to the health of our heart. It is clear here they are talking about the physical heart, an organ mostly composed of muscles, and linking it to perception, emotions, mental attitudes, immune system, etc. How does this apply or not apply to atheists? Atheists are simply people who do not believe in god or gods. How they access data and use it has nothing to do with their belief in paranormal beings. I noticed that Nigel Barber did not reference any sources to back up his views.
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Atheism
Dec 18, 2012 8:21:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 8:21:25 GMT -5
"Atheists are simply people who do not believe in god or gods. How they access data and use it has nothing to do with their belief in paranormal beings". rat, and here I am believing all this time that they use it to promote their beliefs which deny the existence of paranormal beings, like Almighty God; but up to the present time they cannot offer any proof that God does not exist. Am I mistaken in my belief?
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Atheism
Dec 18, 2012 20:13:33 GMT -5
Post by Gene on Dec 18, 2012 20:13:33 GMT -5
"Atheists are simply people who do not believe in god or gods. How they access data and use it has nothing to do with their belief in paranormal beings". rat, and here I am believing all this time that they use it to promote their beliefs which deny the existence of paranormal beings, like Almighty God; but up to the present time they cannot offer any proof that God does not exist. Am I mistaken in my belief? Partaker, can you believe that there are atheists who don't give a rat's ass (sorry, rational - couldn't resist) what the theists believe? That it's absolutely fine if you believe whatever you want to believe about whatever god you choose to believe in? That they're not out to 'convert' you to atheism? That their only concern is that YOUR belief not infringe upon THEIR right to NOT believe... and live their lives accordingly? And that they're quite willing to confess they cannot prove that god does not exist.... and furthermore, will be quite happy to confess that god does exist when the evidence points to that conclusion, to their satisfaction?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 0:18:42 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 0:18:42 GMT -5
I did. The maker of heaven and earth. Is your god omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnibenevolent? Why would you ask me to draw your conclusions for you, he's your God too.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 0:21:01 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 0:21:01 GMT -5
Sure it is. Geo-political conflict would be non-existent if it were not so. You will have to explain how/why this is true. Are you saying it's all for nothing? May I ask at this time, why many of your 15k plus posts interrogate the nature of God?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 0:24:56 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 0:24:56 GMT -5
The fact that mankind believes he is real is evidence that he is real . . . The list of things that mankind believes and has believed is long and varied, from Helios driving his quadriga across the sky (when Apollo was too busy) to Aegaeus being responsible for storms at sea. People believing in myths is nothing new nor does it offer much in the line of proof. You're saying it's a myth that mankind is real? That he is a projection of something more permanent than the finite occasion of his life. So the story goes. Are you depressed or what?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 0:37:20 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 0:37:20 GMT -5
While atheists are big fans of evolution they commonly dismiss the evolutionary influence of myths and prefer to assail the Christian myth (story) as a conspiracy. How do they begin to make such an assertion given their non-teleological interpretation of evolution?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 0:45:21 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 19, 2012 0:45:21 GMT -5
People are looking for the answer to questions, no doubt. But "Why are we here?" is not a question that everyone is asking. Sure it is. Geo-political conflict would be non-existent if it were not so. In a passive or latent sense, it is true for those who are removed from the imminent, political theatre as well. Look, Lee!
You throw out these convoluted supposedly intelligent statements & when someone asks to explain- you just reply with questions instead of explaining!
Why don't you just explain what you meant in your statement?
Because you can't I expect! You just threw a bunch of words together as a smoke screen-well known as a the "smoke screen" fallacy.
Now just explain what you meant by that statement you said above!
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 1:19:35 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 1:19:35 GMT -5
Sure it is. Geo-political conflict would be non-existent if it were not so. In a passive or latent sense, it is true for those who are removed from the imminent, political theatre as well. Look, Lee!
You throw out these convoluted supposedly intelligent statements & when someone asks to explain- you just reply with questions instead of explaining!
Why don't you just explain what you meant in your statement?
Because you can't I expect! You just threw a bunch of words together as a smoke screen-well known as a the "smoke screen" fallacy.
Now just explain what you meant by that statement you said above!Do not both parties of the US presume to offer the better vision for America and ultimately, for humanity? And when the UN speaks, is it not according to it's vision for a better world? When nations engage in civil and international conflict is it not ultimately about their respective visions for posterity?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 5:32:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 5:32:42 GMT -5
"Atheists are simply people who do not believe in god or gods. How they access data and use it has nothing to do with their belief in paranormal beings". rat, and here I am believing all this time that they use it to promote their beliefs which deny the existence of paranormal beings, like Almighty God; but up to the present time they cannot offer any proof that God does not exist. Am I mistaken in my belief? Partaker, can you believe that there are atheists who don't give a rat's ass (sorry, rational - couldn't resist) what the theists believe? That it's absolutely fine if you believe whatever you want to believe about whatever god you choose to believe in? That they're not out to 'convert' you to atheism? That their only concern is that YOUR belief not infringe upon THEIR right to NOT believe... and live their lives accordingly? And that they're quite willing to confess they cannot prove that god does not exist.... and furthermore, will be quite happy to confess that god does exist when the evidence points to that conclusion, to their satisfaction? Yes, I do believe and accept that people have a right disagree with whatever; but I have encountered some so-called atheists who have daringly told me that I am foolish to believe that their is a God as mentioned in the Bible. They boldly declared that there is no God. However when I ask them to prove it they waffle on about scientific achievements that indicate that there is no God. Give me a break!! PS: I have also been asked when am I going to wake up out of my slumber and realize that there is no God.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 7:02:15 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 7:02:15 GMT -5
"Atheists are simply people who do not believe in god or gods. How they access data and use it has nothing to do with their belief in paranormal beings". rat, and here I am believing all this time that they use it to promote their beliefs which deny the existence of paranormal beings, like Almighty God; but up to the present time they cannot offer any proof that God does not exist. Am I mistaken in my belief? I am not obligated to to prove to you that your god does not exist. You are not obligated to prove that gryphons do not exist. However, if you care define your god and claim that s/he does exist I will be glad to discuss the possibilities with you. I, on the other hand, will not be putting forth the claim that there are gryphons roaming the land. And, since I am not making that extraordinary claim, I will not be supporting it.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 7:03:30 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 7:03:30 GMT -5
Partaker, can you believe that there are atheists who don't give a rat's ass (sorry, rational - couldn't resist) what the theists believe? That it's absolutely fine if you believe whatever you want to believe about whatever god you choose to believe in? That they're not out to 'convert' you to atheism? That their only concern is that YOUR belief not infringe upon THEIR right to NOT believe... and live their lives accordingly? And that they're quite willing to confess they cannot prove that god does not exist.... and furthermore, will be quite happy to confess that god does exist when the evidence points to that conclusion, to their satisfaction? I think that sums it up quite nicely.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 7:13:34 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 7:13:34 GMT -5
The list of things that mankind believes and has believed is long and varied, from Helios driving his quadriga across the sky (when Apollo was too busy) to Aegaeus being responsible for storms at sea. People believing in myths is nothing new nor does it offer much in the line of proof. You're saying it's a myth that mankind is real? No, I was pointing out that what mankind believes does not offer much in the line of proof.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 7:18:23 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 7:18:23 GMT -5
While atheists are big fans of evolution they commonly dismiss the evolutionary influence of myths and prefer to assail the Christian myth (story) as a conspiracy. How do they begin to make such an assertion given their non-teleological interpretation of evolution? Evolution has nothing to do with a person's belief in a paranormal being. Many theists also believe in the theory of evolution. The christian story may or may not be a myth. Like the existence of god there is little, outside of the bible, that offers support for the claims. There are many other myths that have much better evidence yet people regard them as myths.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 10:21:16 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 10:21:16 GMT -5
While atheists are big fans of evolution they commonly dismiss the evolutionary influence of myths and prefer to assail the Christian myth (story) as a conspiracy. How do they begin to make such an assertion given their non-teleological interpretation of evolution? Evolution has nothing to do with a person's belief in a paranormal being. Depends if you're a theist or not. Many theists also believe in the theory of evolution. Not with the same assumptions or absense of them as the atheist does. The christian story may or may not be a myth. Speak the truth. You don't believe Jesus died and rose again. Like the existence of god there is little, outside of the bible, that offers support for the claims. Yes... . we've all been advised now by atheists that the Bible is bunk. There are many other myths that have much better evidence yet people regard them as myths. A myth is a theory of god and or of cosmology/existence. What are you trying to say?
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 10:25:10 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 19, 2012 10:25:10 GMT -5
Atheism is an internally contradictory position for in seeking to deny the existence of God its practicioners must first assume the objectivity of God ... it is the epitomy of absurdity. Like scientists, it is theists who are advancing and testing their theories of God.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 11:47:42 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 11:47:42 GMT -5
Evolution has nothing to do with a person's belief in a paranormal being. Depends if you're a theist or not. Not with the same assumptions or absense of them as the atheist does. Can you explain what the difference might be? To my recollection the theory of evolution doesn't revolve around whether there is a god or not. No, I don't. And I don't think the earth stopped spinning, reversed itself, stopped a second time, and then continues to rotate while the people stood calmly watching the shadow of the sundial. I don't know anyone who has said the bible is all bunk. It certainly contains errors and some of the stories simply don't hold up when examined. You seem to have defined myth very narrowly. myth1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature. 2. stories or matter of this kind. 3. any invented story, idea, or concept. 4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person. 5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. What I am saying is that there are other myths that have much better historical support.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 11:53:08 GMT -5
Post by rational on Dec 19, 2012 11:53:08 GMT -5
Atheism is an internally contradictory position for in seeking to deny the existence of God its practicioners must first assume the objectivity of God ... it is the epitomy of absurdity. There is no reason why atheists assume the objectivity of god. Remember, without a belief in god I have to go by the definitions supplied by theists. Theists claim their god exists and often attribute things to their god that they can not prove. It is possible that both theists and atheists are testing and searching for some evidence of god. The difference is that theists believe their god exists without evidence and atheists are waiting for the evidence for the extraordinary claims made by theists.
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Atheism
Dec 19, 2012 17:40:15 GMT -5
Post by dlb5674 on Dec 19, 2012 17:40:15 GMT -5
Atheism is an internally contradictory position for in seeking to deny the existence of God its practicioners must first assume the objectivity of God ... it is the epitomy of absurdity. There is no reason why atheists assume the objectivity of god. Remember, without a belief in god I have to go by the definitions supplied by theists. Theists claim their god exists and often attribute things to their god that they can not prove. It is possible that both theists and atheists are testing and searching for some evidence of god. The difference is that theists believe their god exists without evidence and atheists are waiting for the evidence for the extraordinary claims made by theists. And yet, atheists will not indicate "what" evidence they are waiting for.
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