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Post by kiwi on Dec 30, 2008 18:39:52 GMT -5
Do you believe people that go to other churches are Christians? I ask because when I was a 2x2, I didn't believe they were. I thought they were fake Christians in false churches. What about freespirits question
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Post by kiwi on Dec 30, 2008 18:42:33 GMT -5
Do you mean "in" or "out" of the fellowship ? He was a nut who bolted to Jerusalem ! A nut and a bolt can only come together in a screwed up "movement !" Doesn't have to be in or out. So What happens with your statement if it was God who moved him?
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Post by freespirit on Dec 30, 2008 18:44:44 GMT -5
Do you believe people that go to other churches are Christians? I ask because when I was a 2x2, I didn't believe they were. I thought they were fake Christians in false churches. What about freespirits question Maybe it will make Bert's list of unanswered questions. ;D fs
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2008 18:45:28 GMT -5
If it doesn't matter whether he was moved in or out, what exactly are you asking ?
God moved him where ? how ? For what purpose ?
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Post by Sharon on Dec 30, 2008 19:31:36 GMT -5
If William Irvine was ever called of God, he would have been in touch with God. Why then did he come up with these gospels that proved to be false. William Irvine was nothing like John the baptist. John said "I must decrease" WI said I must increase You stun me with some of your statements Nathan. ~~~ In the beginning WI must be humble, godly man if he wasn't Eddy Cooney, Jack Carrol's brothers and sister and some of the Faith Mission worker/preachers would have NOT follow him.
If WI had preached false doctrines a NUT from the start he would not have too many followers!
When I was in the work I heard only good thing about WI... I didn't hear the negative side why he left the work.It is my understanding from other "facts" then what we've been spoonfed that William Irvine was NOT the leader at the very beginning, that there is even questions that there were other men already "workers" before he became one or at least there were other men that simultaneously were workers. However it is true that he forcefully took leadership for a short period of time until others were able to determine his very immorality and gained enough strength in numbers to override him. It was his immorality that got him excommunicated, not his mental deviation as far as spiritual things were concerned. And as an afterthought, medically I'd have to wonder if his mental abberations were not caused by some STD which some are known to cause! And as to Eddie Cooney...he was with the other workers for a lot longer then WI and could have stayed with them, but his biggest problem was he wanted to go wherever the notion took him regardless of where the need was at the moment...thus the other workers were not able to work with him and E. Cooney removed himself and went his own direction.
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Post by kiwi on Dec 30, 2008 20:32:48 GMT -5
If it doesn't matter whether he was moved in or out, what exactly are you asking ? God moved him where ? how ? For what purpose ? Read the question again please. [What happens with your statement if it was God who moved him?]
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Post by alia on Dec 30, 2008 21:22:52 GMT -5
Re. Irvines immorality...this can in fact be related to a mental illness...bipolar patients when in a manic state or hypomanic state can be hypersexual..overindulge with re. to that as well as spending and other things etc. with no regard for the consequences. They also can develop delusions (fixed false beliefs) and I would say he could very well have suffered from "delusions of grandeur". Many mental health patients are preoccupied with religion. Bipolar patients can fluctuate...their illness is not in a constant steady state and if he was more hypomanic originally, he could well have fooled many people and the hypomania would indeed have fueled his enthusuasm and ability to influence others.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 30, 2008 21:27:28 GMT -5
I think alia is saying that Jesus was bipolar.
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Post by alia on Dec 30, 2008 21:36:38 GMT -5
Re. Irvines immorality...this can in fact be related to a mental illness...bipolar patients when in a manic state or hypomanic state can be hypersexual..overindulge with re. to that as well as spending and other things etc. with no regard for the consequences. They also can develop delusions (fixed false beliefs) and I would say he could very well have suffered from "delusions of grandeur". Many mental health patients are preoccupied with religion. Bipolar patients can fluctuate...their illness is not in a constant steady state and if he was more hypomanic originally, he could well have fooled many people and the hypomania would indeed have fueled his enthusuasm and ability to influence others. No, dietcoke, I was explaining that Irvines immorality could have been related to a mental illness. Jesus was without sin.
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Post by alia on Dec 30, 2008 21:38:49 GMT -5
[/quote] It is my understanding from other "facts" then what we've been spoonfed that William Irvine was NOT the leader at the very beginning, that there is even questions that there were other men already "workers" before he became one or at least there were other men that simultaneously were workers. However it is true that he forcefully took leadership for a short period of time until others were able to determine his very immorality and gained enough strength in numbers to override him. It was his immorality that got him excommunicated, not his mental deviation as far as spiritual things were concerned. And as an afterthought, medically I'd have to wonder if his mental abberations were not caused by some STD which some are known to cause! And as to Eddie Cooney...he was with the other workers for a lot longer then WI and could have stayed with them, but his biggest problem was he wanted to go wherever the notion took him regardless of where the need was at the moment...thus the other workers were not able to work with him and E. Cooney removed himself and went his own direction.[/quote] I was responding to this.
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Post by alia on Dec 30, 2008 21:51:03 GMT -5
Also, I must add...re. people with emotional problems/mental illness etc. and a preoccupation with things of a spiritual nature...I don't believe that that is always a bad thing or pathological. "Blessed are the poor in spirit".
If you are always "happy"....how do you feel your need for God...will you ignore the knock??
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Post by freespirit on Dec 30, 2008 22:16:54 GMT -5
I think alia is saying that Jesus was bipolar. Behave, DC! ;D fs
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Post by Sharon on Dec 31, 2008 10:49:29 GMT -5
What I was trying to explain that mental abberations often accompanying other symptoms of STD...such as gonnorrhea, syphlis and some of the more recent discovered STD's. Often when the STD is brought under control or eradicated then the mental abberations also abate.
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H.A.S.
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God loves us all. Yes, even you.
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 31, 2008 10:51:57 GMT -5
I don't have a church that I belong too... Why do you not go to church? Being with other believers can be so very uplifting and helpful in our path of life. fs All in good time. I've only been out of the 2x2 church for a little over a year.
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 31, 2008 10:58:49 GMT -5
Do you believe people that go to other churches are Christians? I ask because when I was a 2x2, I didn't believe they were. I thought they were fake Christians in false churches. What about freespirits question You might have missed it, but I answered it in the follow up post. ==>"I also don't label people based on the church they attend".
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 31, 2008 11:21:32 GMT -5
~~~ Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED. and how shall they believe in him of whom they have NOT heard? And how shall they hear WITHOUT a preacher? Preachers are important in spreading the message, but don't forget that faith can come by reading too. ~~~ Sorry, bro... the gospel didn't end when the Jews rejected Jesus and killed him.... Peter, John, James and the rest of the 12 and 70 apostles continued preaching the gospel to the Jews until the city of Jersusalem was destroyed by the Romans in A.D. 70. That Gospel, not the Gospel ended. See? You missed it again. Read Luke 22 and think of it in context to history. The mission changed from one of "what's going to happen" to one of "this is what happened". WI made the mistake of believing that he was continuing the work that Jesus commisioned in Matt 10, but he missed the part where Jesus changed the commision in Luke 22. Anyway, that's for another thread as I don't want to hijack this one anymore than I already have.
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Post by freespirit on Dec 31, 2008 11:29:55 GMT -5
WI proved himself to be a corrupt and false prophet (look it up Todd), so that would mean this church is the fruit of a false/corrupt prophet. Who can tell me what Jesus said a corrupt tree produces? vs. You might have missed it, but I answered it in the follow up post. ==>"I also don't label people based on the church they attend". HAS, do you think that all the friends are corrupt or do you not label people based on which church we attend? Which is it? All in good time. I've only been out of the 2x2 church for a little over a year. I hope you find a good bible-based church which uplifts and encourages you to have a close walk with God. It is important IMO to be around other believers and come together for worship. freespirit
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 31, 2008 12:00:48 GMT -5
HAS, do you think that all the friends are corrupt or do you not label people based on which church we attend? Which is it? No, I do not think that all the friends are corrupt. I do not think that most of them are corrupt. In fact, there is a good chance that none of them are corrupt. When I talk about the 2x2 church, I'm talking about the 2x2 system, message, doctrine, and history. Now, when I say I do not label people based on the church they attend, I mean that I do not think going to church makes you a Christian. In other words the place you worship does not make you a Christian. When I was a 2x2 I believed only the friends were Christians. Therefore, I will not make the same mistake I made as a 2x2 and start labeling people Christian based on where they worship. I'm really not trying to talk in riddles, and I'm sorry if I've confused you.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 31, 2008 14:07:58 GMT -5
Here's a simple way of explaining it.
Going to a church (any church) does not make you a Christian. Just as standing in a garage does not make you a car.
The problem with the 2x2 church is that it regards itself as the only true garage.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 31, 2008 14:34:40 GMT -5
Between H.A.S. and you, nathan, he isn't the one who is confused.
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jan 1, 2009 20:33:17 GMT -5
Here's a simple way of explaining it. Going to a church (any church) does not make you a Christian. Just as standing in a garage does not make you a car. The problem with the 2x2 church is that it regards itself as the only true garage. ilylo; you are like those that missed the boat, because it looks like the car left the garage and your all alone. Don't know if you were the garbage can that someone forgot to empty or what? The odour is something else. Or maybe part of the fixture and weren’t taken?
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Post by ilylo on Jan 1, 2009 21:15:30 GMT -5
Understandably, your response is to direct a personal insult towards me. Perhaps next time you should come with a comment about the topic instead. Otherwise, make like a clam.
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Post by ilylo on Jan 1, 2009 21:52:18 GMT -5
LOL! You're funny.
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jan 1, 2009 21:52:58 GMT -5
Understandably, your response is to direct a personal insult towards me. Perhaps next time you should come with a comment about the topic instead. Otherwise, make like a clam. Just answer the question you started this one.
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Post by ilylo on Jan 1, 2009 21:56:39 GMT -5
...yet here you are bickering at your computer.
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jan 1, 2009 21:59:38 GMT -5
Are you really that lost for an answer?
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Post by ilylo on Jan 1, 2009 22:00:38 GMT -5
No, I'm just not in the mood to talk to a hypocrite.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jan 1, 2009 22:04:35 GMT -5
No, I'm just not in the mood to talk to a hypocrite. Thank You; now what did you call your self again
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