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Post by kiwi on Dec 22, 2008 16:27:22 GMT -5
I guess what befuddles me is that there's absolutely 'ZERO' attempts to recapture those that might have lost out. Their willingness to let others, that at one point in time were cherished within the fold, die away, with the ease and unconcernedness like a drop of sweat falling from their noses. And yet they are supposed to be those compassionate Shepherds. Their dispositions seems to be "Oh, TOUGH LUCK." How on earth can you possibibly know there is no attempt? Ever heard of prayer? or does God play no part in it? I feel sorry for those who make such sweeping statements, imagine what would have to said to God when He asks why
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Dec 22, 2008 16:36:10 GMT -5
I have witnessed this fact as well, save the zero attempts though. Because oft times other have tried with some succes.
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Post by peridot on Dec 22, 2008 18:54:27 GMT -5
Lin, You joined the TMB about the same time as I did; is this when you learned the history of William Irvine? how did you learn of the history?
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Post by Sharon on Dec 22, 2008 19:02:14 GMT -5
Nathan, you should tell of some specific cases of this. It would be inspiring to know of the f&w's who have been suffering for the gospel in this manner. ~~~ I know a sister worker in Asia was put in prison, severely mistreated because she was at a certain location at the wrong time visiting the friends. The friends and workers were put in prison, questioning, interogated for gathering together. Some visitors were forbidden to return.
The friends in South Africa are suffering horribly from their own countries men as we speak.
The workers in Greece were beaten severely. The Germans workers suffered terribly during WW II.
Leo Stancliff, Willie J, and other workers were POW during WW II in the Philippines.Wasn't it one of the bro. workers in Africa that was captured and drug through the streets...he died...I wish I could remember his name. His older co. had gone a different direction and managed to escape at that time....that was about 15-20 yrs. ago?
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 19:06:56 GMT -5
Lin, You joined the TMB about the same time as I did; is this when you learned the history of William Irvine? how did you learn of the history? I learned of it over 40 years ago,before TMB was even thought of.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 20:21:21 GMT -5
Lin, You joined the TMB about the same time as I did; is this when you learned the history of William Irvine? how did you learn of the history? I learned of it over 40 years ago,before TMB was even thought of. After learning the history, how many people did you tell? And what exactly did you tell them?
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 20:22:28 GMT -5
It didn't bother me at all, simply because I knew what I had in my heart did not come from a person. What others have taught me, I appreciate. the thing I appreciate most is to search the scriptures for something that is my own.
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 20:33:44 GMT -5
Matt 10 I didn't discuss it with many and don't now. It's only here that I do discuss it. The reason is I don't see it as a part of my salvation. My salvation is a gift from God,and it only came from God. There is no man on earth that has the capability to give me salvation. Someone can encourage you to seek, and knock.,but the actual seeking and knocking we have to do ourselves. I discussed this with our son when he was about 18. He hears it now as if it's a new story,but it's not to him
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 20:46:51 GMT -5
Lin - when I was a 2x2, my salvation came via a 2x2 worker standing on a 2x2 platform in a 2x2 gospel meeting. This was the only mechanism for salvation. You could go to the Baptist church and try to obtain salvation but you would still end up in the 2x2 hell. You could carry out great works for the poor and give your body to be burned but if you weren't found in a 2x2 meeting on a Sunday morning your sacrifice would all be in vain. You could abide by the ten commandments and love thy enemy as thyself but if you didn't profess in a 2x2 meeting you would spend eternity in the bosom of satan. Perhaps things have changed - are you telling me that the Living Witness Doctrine has proved to be a flawed doctine and that the non-2x2 clergy are no longer bound for hell?
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 22, 2008 21:03:57 GMT -5
Lin, You joined the TMB about the same time as I did; is this when you learned the history of William Irvine? how did you learn of the history? I learned of it over 40 years ago,before TMB was even thought of. Was that before or after you went in the work, Lin??? Who told you?
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:04:44 GMT -5
We have good friends who are part of a Baptist congregation,and they often talk about witnessing to people. I believe anyone that God has given salvation to would surely be a witness. Jesus said "let your light so shine that you can glorify your father in heaven". so I don't see being a witness is a flawed doctrine.
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:13:44 GMT -5
I don't know what who when or how have to do with it.
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:20:52 GMT -5
Nathan That has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't make us any wiser,better. Everything we do should be considered a service, not a position
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:23:39 GMT -5
Peridot A man by the name of Arthur Benton. Someone again who was a contemporary of some of this history,and did not preach the doctrine that is claimed to have been preached
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 22, 2008 21:24:40 GMT -5
We have good friends who are part of a Baptist congregation,and they often talk about witnessing to people. I believe anyone that God has given salvation to would surely be a witness. Jesus said "let your light so shine that you can glorify your father in heaven". so I don't see being a witness is a flawed doctrine. Equivocation - you know full well what Matt 10 meant by "Living Witness Doctrine." Using Todd's tricks? You're not fooling anyone.
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:27:16 GMT -5
12 years
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Post by peridot on Dec 22, 2008 21:28:19 GMT -5
thanks,lin, if he did preach other doctrine that was surely to your benefit. Forty years ago was a long time ago. :-) Was that before or after you went in the work? (It doesn't matter how long you were in the work, any sacrifice is worthy)
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:37:25 GMT -5
I just looked it up on the search and it said The Roman Catholic Church has it, that's why they believe the pope is infallible
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Post by lin on Dec 22, 2008 21:44:02 GMT -5
I know this Nathan. I was answering Cherie's post.Keep up with the program
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 22, 2008 21:49:28 GMT -5
We have good friends who are part of a Baptist congregation,and they often talk about witnessing to people. I believe anyone that God has given salvation to would surely be a witness. Jesus said "let your light so shine that you can glorify your father in heaven". so I don't see being a witness is a flawed doctrine. Equivocation - you know full well what Matt 10 meant by "Living Witness Doctrine." Using Todd's tricks? You're not fooling anyone. Strawman - a way of fooling yourself. You are not all knowing Cherie, you cannot read the hearts and minds of others, especially over an internet board - so the safe thing to do is let God be the judge of what he hasn't given to man to judge, what God alone can and will judge.
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Post by ilylo on Dec 22, 2008 21:50:50 GMT -5
She didn't have to read his mind. His post on the forum is quite legible.
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Post by ithascome on Dec 22, 2008 21:53:51 GMT -5
They should repent. Repentance requires taking in a whole new point of view; looking at it God's way. Repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action.
While repentance is not a work that earns salvation, repentance unto salvation does result in works. It is impossible to truly and fully change your mind without that causing a change in action.
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 22, 2008 21:57:36 GMT -5
RE: Living Witness Doctrine Lin wrote: I just looked it up on the search and it said The Roman Catholic Church has it, that's why they believe the pope is infallible Try this one: The Living Witness DoctrineIt's where you got the info you posted about below on an earlier thread: Lin wrote:Re: Exclusivity VS. Difference! « Reply #25 on Oct 27, 2008, 5:26pm »
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 22, 2008 22:34:18 GMT -5
Peridot A man by the name of Arthur Benton. Someone again who was a contemporary of some of this history,and did not preach the doctrine that is claimed to have been preached Would this be the same Arthur Benton quoted in Chapter 17 of my book? www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_book/17wmibook.php "WASHINGTON, D.C.: Arthur Benton said: There are some blacks in the Washington DC area, but we have nothing to do with them."
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 22, 2008 22:43:05 GMT -5
Condemnation without investigation... Jesse??? See copy of post #87 above by Lin...
Cherie wrote:
Jesse wrote:
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 23, 2008 2:30:22 GMT -5
Condemnation without investigation... Jesse??? Nope, just making an objective observation.
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 23, 2008 16:03:47 GMT -5
Oh, yes, some of these are sound ideas, but, how do you expect the average friend to react? I expect the average friend will leave. Is the survival of this little church a reason to lie to the members? "Oh Yeah, OK then, right, we will all suddenly forget what we were told before and switch to believe this new stuff." I doubt it!!!! How do you expect them to just swallow the past untruths and accept that what they are now being told is the truth?? No. Why should anyone ever accept what someone is telling them is the truth from God? There's a lot at stake here. There has been a great deal of trust invested, in the way, in the workers, the workers' word. It will not be easy to rectify and reasons will be required. Like WHY had all this not been known and revealed before? Families have been broken up in favour of going along with what workers taught. The bottom will fall out of friends'lives if they are to be disillusioned of the former facts as they have come to know them. If this way can't survive the truth; then maybe it should never have existed in the first place. Members in the past have been excluded from fellowship for questioning the workers. Now, you think they can tell the remaining friends that the questions were valid and sweep it all under the carpet again to continue with a different story? ? Are you implying that the workers, who have no problem pointing out the wrong in others, have too much pride to admit they were wrong about something? If the people were naive and trusting the first time, they will not be the second time. Mission Accomplished. They will be outraged. Except for the ones who have known all along and sneakily kept it to themselves. You can use the word sneakily; I'll use the word cowardly.
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Dec 23, 2008 16:07:03 GMT -5
If the people were naive and trusting the first time, they will not be the second time. They will be outraged. Except for the ones who have known all along and sneakily kept it to themselves. "Sneakily kept it to themselves" is a bit harsh. We've discussed what senior workers could do, and what parents could do. What could junior workers and elders do to avoid being accused of "sneakily keeping it to themselves"? Tell the truth.
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