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Post by Jessi on Jun 5, 2006 22:13:52 GMT -5
CONCERNING GOD’S HOLY WORD:
Psalm 138:2 - . . . for thou has magnified thy word above all thy name.
The Bible is the WORD of God and therefore Christ in that the Words written there are HIS. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1). Salvation only comes through the Holy Spirit's regeneration when we realize that that blood of the perfect Lamb of God is the only true sacrifice for sin.
Most of the information we have about Jesus is from the Bible. Why believe just some of it and not all, since it was written by man? Jesus’ words were not written by Jesus, but by inspired men, so if we rely “only on the words of Jesus”, we are also relying on man to relay them to us.
It’s all about Jesus, from Genesis 1. The Bible is not necessary to know there is a God. The fact that there is a God is given every person by means of a conscience, which God has put in all men through his common grace (Rom 1:19-21). But who He really is and all his attributes can be found in His love letter to those who are his.
One who doesn’t REALLY want to know the truth will not find answers they are looking for in the Bible. Because if they don’t want to know, they are not His (John 6:44, His sheep know his voice). The Holy Spirit teaches his children. So, one has to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and actually have the Holy Spirit (Be a Christian) to understand the Holy Word (John 16:13, I Cor 2:6).
II Peter 1:20-21 – Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. (21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost.
MOVED in this sense is that man had no choice. God moved him to write what HE spoke--while man was the intrument to physically pen the words, NONE of it was their will, but God's. He is sovereign and Holy and Righteous and Just. His judgements are true. If there is something I don't understand, I have faith that He is right, no matter what (Ps 19:9).
Concerning whether this way is cruel, Romans 9 says that God will have mercy on whomever he will. His common grace is that he doesn’t kill me instantly for being a deceitful, disobedient sinner as he killed Uzzah, just for TOUCHING His ark (II Sam 6:6).
I never really knew any of Holy God's attributes because I listened to people who told me that the "Bible is just a book" and "No one has to read a silly book to be saved" and God SURELY would not be so cruel as to make people do something as mundane as study a book to get to Him. And more cruel because SOME can read it all day long and never understand. He is much more powerful than a book, no?
Where do we get most of the information that we discuss here on these boards? I would say we get it from the Bible. But SURELY it can't be the way to get to know God. SURELY there is a more personal way that God wants to us to know Him.
And Satan said the Eve, “You will not SURELY die.”
Grace to you & peace with God
Christ’s Forever, Jessi
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Post by Surprised on Jun 7, 2006 1:48:37 GMT -5
As can be seen from the so-called Skeptics Annotated Bible. Most of the annotations are just plain stupid, and would easily be resolved if the "writers" of the site were prepared to actually interact with historical research on its own terms instead of on terms that they would refuse to apply to any of their darlings, say, evolutionary theory. It is intellectual hypocrisy and the site deserves no more credit than to be considered a piece of mean-spirited satire. I am surprised at your response Rob. Leaving aside the annotations there are still a fair number of contradictions. If the bible is to be considered inerrant there should be none. 2 Samuel 10:18 - 1 Chronicles 19:18 Jeremiah 52:22 - 2 Kings 25:17 Mark 15:25 - John 19:14-16 These are little points but direct contradictions. You can blame the contradiction on whatever you wish but in all translations they do contradict. Important? Not to me. But inerrant does have a meaning.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 7, 2006 4:51:45 GMT -5
It would not be possible for me to go through each contradiction. I chose one and studied it out (I didn't have an answer at the ready for each one) to prove that one can reason through contradictions to the point where they no longer are a concern.
I am content in my belief that there are only apparent contradictions because I made a HUGE study of this two years ago and was bent on proving that the Bible had MAN'S errors all over it and it was therefore errant.
But I was wrong. I cannot prove my point in no uncertain terms because the lists are too long for one person to go through them all. I was just trying to prove that there are answers if one is willing to study. Bible study is hard work. No one ever promised me that the Christian life would be easy.
There are some hard sayings in the Bible, things "difficult to the understood" (II Pet 3:16). Jesus said hard things. The Bible is hard. No question about it. But I long to know it, I burn for the answers -- and so, will continue to pray to God for the Truth.
The simple gospel message is not difficult. A child could understand it. No inhibitions to faith there--unless one hasn't the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth. But there are other things that provoke in man something he despises and must kick against. I believe it is the sovereignty of God.
Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by Just wondering on Jun 7, 2006 8:15:01 GMT -5
I wonder how many on this board...
Criticize or condemn organized religion because it takes the imperfection and corruption of man and applies it to God...
but...
cannot or will not acknowledge that the imperfection and corruption of man has influenced the development of the bible.
Man corrupts everything he touches; organized religion is no exception and neither is the bible.
Organized religion has its place, but it can be a false God.
The bible has its place, but it can be a false God too.
When I question the bible, I am not questioning God, I am questioning an earth-bound imperfect book in an earth-bound imperfect language.
The bottom line is... Faith.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 7, 2006 20:27:48 GMT -5
Faith in what?
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Post by Really on Jun 7, 2006 21:00:38 GMT -5
Jessi wrote:
Good question. The difference in the cultural status of men and women during this time may offer the best explanation.
The Gospel of Luke is basically an interview of Mary.
Really
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Post by Jessi on Jun 7, 2006 21:44:35 GMT -5
It is?
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Post by Just wondering on Jun 7, 2006 21:53:00 GMT -5
Faith in the only thing that man cannot corrupt... ...the love and saving grace of Christ Jesus.
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Post by slither on Jun 8, 2006 2:09:40 GMT -5
And Satan said to Eve, “You will not SURELY die.” Let's see, this was back when snakes could talk to humans, right? Don't s'pose there's any mythology mixed up in that "inerrant" Bible, is there?
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Post by a believer on Jun 8, 2006 3:51:35 GMT -5
Snakes can do all sorts of things when they are controlled by God. Don't you believe in miracles? Dead men come alive again too. Do you believe that Jesus raised the dead?
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Post by a believer on Jun 8, 2006 3:53:21 GMT -5
God parted the Red Sea for Moses and his people to cross over..... many more miracles throughout history by the power of God.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 8, 2006 5:02:05 GMT -5
How can you pick and choose what to believe? You speak of Jesus. Basic knowledge of Jesus comes from the Bible, no? Men wrote the Bible. If the Bible is errant, how do you know which words are right?
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by Just wondering on Jun 8, 2006 8:52:22 GMT -5
How can you pick and choose what to believe? You speak of Jesus. Basic knowledge of Jesus comes from the Bible, no? Men wrote the Bible. If the Bible is errant, how do you know which words are right? Literal bible contradictions do exist. What we do with them is up to us. I will not make excuses for them and I will not employ all manner of linguistic trickery to cover them up. I will, however, pray, and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit when I encounter a conflict in the written word. Without prayer and the Holy Spirit, the bible is just a collection of words.
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Post by ClayRandall on Jun 8, 2006 9:17:27 GMT -5
Man corrupts everything he touches; organized religion is no exception and neither is the bible. And neither is individual man an exception from corruption. So, what to do, what to do.....?
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Post by Just wondering on Jun 8, 2006 9:56:55 GMT -5
And neither is individual man an exception from corruption. So, what to do, what to do.....? Trust in Jesus.
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Post by ClayRandall on Jun 8, 2006 12:53:57 GMT -5
And neither is individual man an exception from corruption. So, what to do, what to do.....? Of course you should trust in Jesus. Faith is a verb...
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Post by Troublemaker on Jun 8, 2006 13:16:59 GMT -5
I thought it was a proper noun.
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Post by Improper on Jun 8, 2006 13:27:09 GMT -5
I thought it was a proper noun. It is a noun but hardly proper.
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Post by ilylo on Jun 8, 2006 13:28:58 GMT -5
Really? faith - n. 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust. 3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. 4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. 5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith. 6. A set of principles or beliefs. Source: dictionary.reference.com/search?q=faith
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Post by Even better on Jun 8, 2006 13:34:22 GMT -5
How can you pick and choose what to believe? You speak of Jesus. Basic knowledge of Jesus comes from the Bible, no? Men wrote the Bible. If the Bible is errant, how do you know which words are right? Christ's, Jessi The bible records that the earth stopped spinning, reversed, stopped stopped spinning again, and restarted spinning in the original direction all without leaving a trave of the event and without any of the physical consequences being recorded. Think about it - could it be a myth recorded as an object lesson? Or were all of the known laws of physics suddenly put on hold? Think of what this would do to the water in the oceans? Or the crust of the earth? Or people standing on the surface watching the sundial shadow? Inerrant? You need a lot of spin.
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Post by Rob O on Jun 8, 2006 19:07:38 GMT -5
So you believe God could get the universe up and running but He doesn't have enough power to intervene in this way without leaving any trace? Is that about it?
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Post by Rob O on Jun 8, 2006 19:39:12 GMT -5
What those who like to throw out contradictions never seem to acknowledge is that a real contradiction is a real logical inconsistency. As Jessi pointed out, there are many seeming contradictions in scripture.
But a contradiction can only be real, and not just seeming, if and only if, no logically possible explanations are available. An explanation may not be entirely satisfactory and may open more questions, but a logical contradiction cannot exist if at least one logically possible resolution is available. (Imagine if science tried to progress by claiming something was really contradictory and then discarding any futher attempts at understanding. And imagine if science said, "Well, we don't currently have an explanation so there can't possibly be one.")
So for any supposed contradiction there are immediately a number of options:
1) A contradiction really exists 2) An explanation may be available but we are missing a datum or data that would enable us to find a satisfactory solution. 3) The problem may only exist in English and be resolved easily if one approaches the underlying Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek 4) The problem may appear exist because one is reading the passage anachronistically and expecting documents from antiquity to display exactly the same properties as modern documents of the same or similar genre 5) A problem may only appear to exist (especially with numbers) where one writer uses exact figures and another writer recording the same incident rounds off figures 6) A transmission error/corruption has occurred
The problem is that it is extremely difficult to prove a real contradiction. One would think a little humility in the minds of researchers would be useful, but nooooo, they would rather arrogate the benefit of the doubt for themselves rather than leave it with the text where it belongs.
But inerrant does have a meaning.
Yes, and it's normally left with the autographs where it belongs. Another problem arises when believers attempt to force inerrancy onto any particular translation.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 9, 2006 6:08:00 GMT -5
My realization that there were so many copies of the autographs helped change my mind about the inerrancy of scripture. That, and my understanding of the immense find of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
My whole life, while I kept coming back to it and reading it, I could not agree that it was inerrant. I fought against much of what it contained . . . and lived a life opposing the words therein.
However, when I began to understand how many copies have been found (they were, after all, peoples' Bibles), among other proofs, I came to a conclusion that while God chose not to preserve every word, He was present in the inspiration, or breathing out of the autographs and the Bible(s) I have in my hands are inspired (ESV, NASB, NKJV, etc.).
I agree with Rob concerning the different versions. The King James translators did not believe that their translation was the only inspired word of God. Preachers like Charles Spurgeon and G. Campbell Morgan used several different translations available at the time.
The King James called the Holy Spirit an IT. The NKJV corrects this!
The Mormons or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that the King James is “correct . . . insofar as it is properly translated.” Much like “Reformed Egyptian” I guess.
Christ’s,
Jessi
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100 versions of the 1
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Post by 100 versions of the 1 on Jun 9, 2006 8:23:05 GMT -5
If the bible is so infallable, why does it need to exist in so many English translations?
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Post by bible on Jun 9, 2006 9:22:04 GMT -5
Some will say JKV is best but it is more difficult to understand these other translations like the NLT and NIV really clear things up and these other then KJV have a scholarly blessing
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Post by ClayRandall on Jun 9, 2006 10:20:30 GMT -5
I thought it was a proper noun. Did it strike anyone as odd that I would stop in the middle of a discussion to give an unrelated grammar lesson on verbs, adverbs, nouns, etc? What's next - Sesame Street? I was speaking rhetorically, people! P.S. This post brought to you by the letters "D" and "A"
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Post by Proper noun on Jun 9, 2006 12:07:27 GMT -5
My dog's name is Faith.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 9, 2006 17:54:31 GMT -5
Proper Noun, is your dog a Christian?
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