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Post by notwhat on Jun 2, 2006 0:18:51 GMT -5
Lifted from another thread...
To I, sjg, Jessie, and happy (and anyone else):
If a person believes that God is calling him/her to Him through the F&W fellowship, what advice would you offer that person?
Respectfully, notwhat
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Post by ozelaine on Jun 2, 2006 0:38:17 GMT -5
I would say God doesn't call people "through" a religion. God doesn't use screen doors. He calls man through the work of the Holy Spirit through Jesus alone. He is the door. If anyone tells you that you have to go through them to be saved, you can be sure that the Gospel they are preaching/proclaiming is theirs and not God's.
God's work in man is through the Gospel. The Gospel is the truth about Jesus and if we believe God's testimony about Jesus, who he is, what he came to do and who for, then we are saved.
Colossians 1:5: "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in THE WORD OF THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL."
The Word of Truth being the Gospel, is found in Ephesians 1:13: "In Whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the Word of Truth, THE GOSPEL of your salvation..."
Paul says: "...in Christ Jesus I have begotten you THROUGH THE GOSPEL" (1 Cor. 4:15).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2006 0:44:15 GMT -5
Exactly.
And if they are being lead to out their faith in anything other than Jesus, then I would question if the promoting is coming from God. Peer pressure can mislead people and we all know that Satan loves to send man to a lost eternity. What better way for Satan to work than to lead people to vainly put their faith in something other than the blood of Christ?
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Post by bluejay on Jun 2, 2006 0:51:41 GMT -5
Through personal experience, I've discovered that God can speak to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
So if the question is asking "can God call (or speak) to us if we meet with the f&w's?", I'd say yes.
Or, if the question is asking "can God speak to me through words spoken by someone in the f&w's fellowship?" , I'd say yes again.
I'm not sure if the phrasing "through the F8W's fellowship" means someone needs to believe in their doctrine in order to hear God's voice. If that's the essence of the question, then I'd say no. I don't believe it's necessary to meet with those who support an exclusive 2&2 itinerant ministry & meeting only in homes for fellowship, in order for God to speak to us.
I know I hear God's voice speaking directly to my heart, and I don't belong to the fellowship of the f&w's.
Bottom line for me is that I always want to obey God's voice, no matter how or where I hear Him.
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Post by notwhat on Jun 2, 2006 1:41:18 GMT -5
Oh dear. I suppose one would have to review the thread entitled: "Most 2x2s victums" [sic] in order to read the question in the context in which it was meant. Sorry!
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Post by happy on Jun 2, 2006 7:45:21 GMT -5
I like what OzElaine said.
I would tell a person that the fellowship is wonderful with this nice group of people. They will find many friends. I would just ask the person to weigh out the worship and the doctrines before they are taken in by the friendliness. Ask questions. I would suggest much prayer and being close to God in making a decision about any denomination. My faith in God tells me that I can't do or undo what He chooses to do.
I believe there are many wonderful people in the fellowship. I believe there are many Christians there, as well. I do not understand the doctrines and especially the exclusivity, but this is a personal choice. As soon as I have all the answers, I'll be better equiped to give others all the answers. Until then, I'll rest assured that God can do that for them and me.
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Post by sjg on Jun 2, 2006 9:54:20 GMT -5
I am not saying that 2 x 2’s can not be saved. I am saying WHEN they come to a true, saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, they will no longer be content to sit under false teaching. When a person is saved, he receives the indwelling Holy Spirit, and He enables the believer to discern between truth and error. The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, protects us from the countless delusions, and condemns the spirit of the antichrist.
1John 2:18 ……even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
When we speak of antichrist, there are three meanings. First, it may refer to the spirit underlying our culture as it opposes the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It is the system which man has built up in an effort to make himself happy without Christ. Secondly, it may refer to those people whose lives embody that spirit of opposition to Christ. Thirdly, Antichrist is the Bible’s name for a specific individual: a powerful person who will arrive someday to bring rebellion throughout the earth against Almighty God. Prior to the coming of the Antichrist, MANY antichrists will appear. These are false teachers who offer a false christ and a false gospel. Sadly, I think the workers and their theology fit the second definition---they are antichrists! I know that seems ironic when they profess to be doing things “Jesus’ way.” But examine their doctrine in light of the scriptures. Forget about going out in pairs. Forget about being unpaid and unmarried. Forget about skirts and buns. Forget that they meet in homes. Forget that they oppose church buildings. Forget that they do not believe in tithing. Bottom line is: WHAT do they teach and believe about Jesus? When a worker knocks on your door is the message they bring really any different than the Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons? John writes that “every spirit that confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh IS from God.” (I John 4:2). ANY spirit opposing the Lordship of Christ is antichrist (vs3). Jesus identified Himself with God, the Father, many times. “I and my Father are one.” “If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.” The spirit of antichrist denies the deity of Jesus, His atoning death, and the truth of God’s Word. IF Jesus Christ is not God, then who is He? IF He was just another man, our “example”~ our “pattern”… what do you have? IF Jesus is not God then we have NO way of knowing who God is or what He is like? Jesus came to bear witness to the very nature of God…loving, just, merciful, gracious, forgiving. “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God” (1 John 4:1) The Lord has given every believer the presence of the Holy Spirit, whose responsibility is to help us discern truth from error. My challenge is: ask the workers and “friends”, “do you believe that Jesus IS God?” There are only two answers. Either “yes” or “no.” There can be no middle ground here. Either Jesus IS who He says He is or He is the biggest imposter ever to live…a liar. And IF a liar then nothing He said or did could be trusted. And we would be without hope! Jesus asked the disciples, “who do you say that I am?” He is asking us the same thing today. Can you say with Peter, “Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God”? What are the basic beliefs of someone who takes the name of Christ? 1) They MUST believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. 2) They MUST believe that Jesus is the son of God, deity in human flesh, and that He is the ONLY way to salvation. 3) They must believe that He died on the cross as full payment for our sins and experienced a bodily resurrection, so that we maybe forgiven and have eternal life. 3) They MUST believe that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and seals us as children of God. 4) Finally, they MUST believe that Jesus Christ is coming again and will take us to the eternal home He has planned.
I echo a warning: 2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 14:02:00 GMT -5
Get an electronic Bible. Punch in the words FALSE APOSTLE and FALSE PROPHET. Do a study. Compare and contrast these words with what the workers believe. Ask them if Jesus is God, do they believe in the Trinity, do apostles exist today. Read the book of Isaiah and the book of John.
When you are finished with that, run as fast as you can in the opposite direction of the F&W until you can get your head on straight, praying the whole time. And whatever you do, never look back, dear. That's what I did.
The Bible says that God is not calling you to the F&W. John 6:44. God calls people to CHRIST the Lord.
Christ's forever, Jessi
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2006 14:24:29 GMT -5
I would say God doesn't call people "through" a religion. God doesn't use screen doors. He calls man through the work of the Holy Spirit through Jesus alone. He is the door. If anyone tells you that you have to go through them to be saved, you can be sure that the Gospel they are preaching/proclaiming is theirs and not God's. God's work in man is through the Gospel. The Gospel is the truth about Jesus and if we believe God's testimony about Jesus, who he is, what he came to do and who for, then we are saved. Colossians 1:5: "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in THE WORD OF THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL." The Word of Truth being the Gospel, is found in Ephesians 1:13: "In Whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the Word of Truth, THE GOSPEL of your salvation..." Paul says: "...in Christ Jesus I have begotten you THROUGH THE GOSPEL" (1 Cor. 4:15). Another place Paul said, "In the Day of when God shall judge the secret of men by Jesus Christ according to MY Gospel." (Romans 2:16) Paul wrote in (I Cor. 5:18-20) God who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the of reconciliation to wit, that God was reconciling Christ the world unto himself, not imputing their sins unto them: and has 'committed' unto us the word or reconciliation. Now then wer are "ambassador" for Christ... Paul's gospel was quite simple. Jesus is Lord. Karl
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 14:27:57 GMT -5
Amen Karl. Sorry. I was remembering the nightmare . . . All I could think of was to scream RUN! Run to the Lord. Amen.
Run.
Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 14:36:26 GMT -5
SJG: register so people can private message you.
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Jun 2, 2006 14:53:52 GMT -5
sjg:
you said "I am not saying that 2 x 2’s can not be saved. I am saying WHEN they come to a true, saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, they will no longer be content to sit under false teaching."
but what if they hear none of the false teaching thats mentioned happens in some places?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 15:03:44 GMT -5
eurp: That's not possible. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the F&W.
Jessi
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Jun 2, 2006 15:06:36 GMT -5
Jessi
I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think I've heard false teaching in the F&W. (I do fall asleep sometimes and might have missed something?)
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 15:26:49 GMT -5
If you are not 100 percent certain, then what percent is it?
Love in the Lord,
Jessi
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Post by wondering on Jun 2, 2006 15:41:33 GMT -5
I have read here for some time now, and am getting more confused than ever.
I grew up going to meetings (55 years), and have always heard that Jesus came in the flesh, and that he had the fullness of the Holy Spirit that he had in heaven. Now how does that differ from what sjg says?
"1) They MUST believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. 2) They MUST believe that Jesus is the son of God, deity in human flesh, and that He is the ONLY way to salvation. 3) They must believe that He died on the cross as full payment for our sins and experienced a bodily resurrection, so that we maybe forgiven and have eternal life. 3) They MUST believe that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and seals us as children of God. 4) Finally, they MUST believe that Jesus Christ is coming again and will take us to the eternal home He has planned."
This is what I hear while sitting in meetings, and have since I can remember.
These forget abouts from sjg, "Forget about going out in pairs. Forget about being unpaid and unmarried. Forget about skirts and buns. Forget that they meet in homes. Forget that they oppose church buildings. Forget that they do not believe in tithing," are things that I have learned to love because the Spirit was there opening my eyes and changing my heart. Yes there may be some things that people are lacking in, believe that is incorrect, but those things don't change what Jesus teachings are. That means that there is growing to be done.
I never want to get to the place that I feel better than another in any way. An attitude of impatience toward our brethren is a wrong spirit any way you look at it. We are to love them, not look down on them. Those who decide they can no longer stand to sit in meetings with us are in my "opinion" looking down on us with an attitude of "we are better than you." I don't see how that fits into loving God and his children.
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Jun 2, 2006 15:43:20 GMT -5
98.3%
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Post by ilylo on Jun 2, 2006 15:53:41 GMT -5
Those who decide they can no longer stand to sit in meetings with us are in my "opinion" looking down on us with an attitude of "we are better than you." I don't see how that fits into loving God and his children. When 2x2s look down on other churches, are you ashamed?
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Post by wondering on Jun 2, 2006 16:11:09 GMT -5
No one is to look down on another for any reason.
I would say that is un-Christ-like.
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Post by Randolph on Jun 2, 2006 16:19:40 GMT -5
What about height differential ?
How does a 6' 6" man have a conversation with a five footer ? From 15 yards away ?
Of course Lazarus had to climb up a tree to see Jesus because he was a little guy in a crowd, and because of his elevated stature Jesus saw him !
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Post by thud on Jun 2, 2006 17:02:45 GMT -5
how about weight differential?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2006 17:12:32 GMT -5
I have read here for some time now, and am getting more confused than ever. I grew up going to meetings (55 years), and have always heard that Jesus came in the flesh, and that he had the fullness of the Holy Spirit that he had in heaven. Now how does that differ from what sjg says? "1) They MUST believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. 2) They MUST believe that Jesus is the son of God, deity in human flesh, and that He is the ONLY way to salvation. 3) They must believe that He died on the cross as full payment for our sins and experienced a bodily resurrection, so that we maybe forgiven and have eternal life. 3) They MUST believe that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and seals us as children of God. 4) Finally, they MUST believe that Jesus Christ is coming again and will take us to the eternal home He has planned."This is what I hear while sitting in meetings, and have since I can remember. These forget abouts from sjg, "Forget about going out in pairs. Forget about being unpaid and unmarried. Forget about skirts and buns. Forget that they meet in homes. Forget that they oppose church buildings. Forget that they do not believe in tithing," are things that I have learned to love because the Spirit was there opening my eyes and changing my heart. Yes there may be some things that people are lacking in, believe that is incorrect, but those things don't change what Jesus teachings are. That means that there is growing to be done. I never want to get to the place that I feel better than another in any way. An attitude of impatience toward our brethren is a wrong spirit any way you look at it. We are to love them, not look down on them. Those who decide they can no longer stand to sit in meetings with us are in my "opinion" looking down on us with an attitude of "we are better than you." I don't see how that fits into loving God and his children. This may seem nitpicky, but... Jesus did not have any "fulness" of the Holy Spirit. Men get that when they are regenerated through salvation, by faith. Jesus is God. He is the unique God-man, that greek word for only begotten is monogenes- or solo, unique kind, or type. There is nor will there be, any other like Him. That might be the difference. Karl
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 17:30:07 GMT -5
eurp: I will pray for you.
Christ is King, Jessi
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Post by no on Jun 2, 2006 17:45:09 GMT -5
Those who decide they can no longer stand to sit in meetings with us are in my "opinion" looking down on us with an attitude of "we are better than you." I don't see how that fits into loving God and his children. When 2x2s look down on other churches, are you ashamed? no we don't look down on them persay, but on their doctrine as you do ours
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Post by notwhat on Jun 2, 2006 18:35:15 GMT -5
Thanks for all your responses! I am the one who professed many years ago, then left for 25 years and just started attending meetings intermittently with my Dad after my Mom died.
I have been paying close attention in gospel meetings to any reference to Jesus. I have heard that Jesus is God. I have heard about the Holy Spirit. I have sang about Jesus dying for our sins. When I look at the workers and see those qualities in them that the Bible says Jesus had, I am pretty impressed.
I do not believe there is just one way to heaven, but I think God must speak to different people in different ways, based on their ability to understand.
It all may be a moot point for me, though, as I still wrestle with the idea of an invisible guy in the sky who used to live here and then died for us and now can talk to us and be our friend. I do believe Jesus came here and died and rose again. I just cannot get the "personal relationship" thing. I have been to a number of churches, but I have yet to understand that one very important piece of Christianity.
What I do enjoy is being with the F&Ws, and their way makes as much sense to me as any other church I've been to.
(I forgot to add that I don't like the exclusivity. It sounds pompous and a little silly to me.)
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 19:19:37 GMT -5
notwhat wrote: I do not believe there is just one way to heaven, but I think God must speak to different people in different ways, based on their ability to understand.
There are not fights in a graveyard. If all are spiritually dead, no one is going to care which way.
Jesus said: I am the way, I am the door of the sheep, I am the light of the World, I AM, No one can come to the Father but through me, No one can come to me unless the Father draws him, Take up your cross and follow me. All his apostles were killed for His Name except for one. They died brutal deaths for His name. I'd say that is fairly exclusive.
Have you prayed about this?
Saved by the Christ of God (exclusively)
Jessu
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Post by Jessi on Jun 2, 2006 20:27:40 GMT -5
Thanks for all your responses! I am the one who professed many years ago, then left for 25 years and just started attending meetings intermittently with my Dad after my Mom died.
I have been paying close attention in gospel meetings to any reference to Jesus. I have heard that Jesus is God. I have heard about the Holy Spirit. I have sang about Jesus dying for our sins. When I look at the workers and see those qualities in them that the Bible says Jesus had, I am pretty impressed.
I do not believe there is just one way to heaven, but I think God must speak to different people in different ways, based on their ability to understand.
It all may be a moot point for me, though, as I still wrestle with the idea of an invisible guy in the sky who used to live here and then died for us and now can talk to us and be our friend. I do believe Jesus came here and died and rose again. I just cannot get the "personal relationship" thing. I have been to a number of churches, but I have yet to understand that one very important piece of Christianity.
What I do enjoy is being with the F&Ws, and their way makes as much sense to me as any other church I've been to.
(I forgot to add that I don't like the exclusivity. It sounds pompous and a little silly to me.) NOTWHAT: One other thing . . . particularly about exclusivity being pompous and silly, Consider Isaiah 6:1+. Isaiah was a HOLY MAN, a prophet, and in the presence of Holy God, he knew he had a dirty mouth, that he was sinful man. Please consider Isaiah 66:1-4. What helped me to understand about Who Jesus is was to understand that He is NOT MY FRIEND, but THE HOLY ONE of God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of all knowledge (Prov 1:7). King Jesus Lives, Jessi
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 2, 2006 20:56:58 GMT -5
The Gospel I preached when I was a 2x2 worker: Jesus is God the Second Person of the Godhead. The Deity of Christ. Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Son of Man. Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. Those who believe and confess Jesus as the the Savior are SAVED through Him and Him only. Jesus Christ is the door, and the way to the heavenly Father. So, Karl.... was the Gospel I preached as a 2x2 worker differently than Paul, the apostle? As long as you did not preach nor believe that the workers' ministry form is essential in salvation, you probably are okay.
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