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Post by happy on Jun 2, 2006 21:16:36 GMT -5
I HATE being preached at by someone trying to convince me of something, whether or not they are right. It is a huge turn off. I don't see the point of trying to do this to someone to keep them away from going to meetings. The inevitable question would come up, "why aren't you going", which may lead to more conversation. The original post didn't include this scenario.
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Post by ozelaine on Jun 2, 2006 22:06:21 GMT -5
Nathan, I know you don't see it this way but over all the years of discussions with you it has always come out at the end that you believe salvation is a four fold thing, and I quote:
"Faith, Messengers, Message, and Form go hand in hand. Part of the package."
So what you say above is not the whole truth. You are not being completely honest. You are lying by omission. Why can you not see that?
What you say the Gospel is, is only part of the story, you haven't included what Jesus came to do and who he did it for. And you have added form and messengers. Lots of sects get bits of truth mixed with bit's of untruth. This makes for false Gospel's. God's Gospel is 100% true and the whole of God's Gospel needs to be proclaimed for salvation.
The Gospel is NOT about believing in what HAPPENED TO the Messiah, but is about KNOWING and believing Who the Messiah IS by what the Messiah DID to save His people from their sins. Christ said: "And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou hast sent" (Jn.17:3). God says: "...Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, THAT HE UNDERSTANDETH AND KNOWETH ME..." (Jer. 9:23,24).
The true Gospel doesn't have form and messengers added, just as it doesn't have circumcision added. Faith in Christ alone (everything about Him) is the key to salvation not anything else. If anything else is added Paul says Christ has become of none effect.
Isn't that what the Bible says?
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Post by Anda on Jun 2, 2006 22:42:20 GMT -5
AND a the Workers teach that Jesus is not God and they also teach that there is no salvation outside of the Workers Church
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Post by notwhat on Jun 2, 2006 23:43:59 GMT -5
Jessi, it sounds as if you have yet to recover from the trauma of listening to the F&Ws. I am so sorry and I'm glad you've found some happiness. FYI: telling people you will pray for them in the context in which you did comes across as sort of condescending, in case you aren't aware. If whatever you've found causes you to act all holier than the rest of us, I sure don't want it!! Good grief.
Daisy, the F&W group I have attended does, in fact, preach Jesus and the blood of Christ. You must not have ever been to Tennessee to hear them.
sjg? The F&W are the anti-christ? I guess the friends and workers here don't know they are supposed to believe that Jesus is not God. Maybe that information has not gotten here yet? I'll keep listening for it. We are always the last ones to hear anything.
eurp, it looks as if you've been listening to the same people I have. The ones where you live must know the same God as the ones where I live.
Happy, you seem to have a grasp of what is helpful and what is not to a person who is trying to figure out what God wants. Thanks for your comments...
I am not the brightest crayon in the box, which may be why I am drawn to the simplicity of the F&W. I'm just trying to pay attention to the message, and I seem to want to keep going back to hear more for some reason. Can't say I've experienced that in another church, so far.
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Post by CKatz on Jun 3, 2006 0:29:25 GMT -5
Hi - I am assuming you are in TN? I would like to encourage you to keep listening with your hungry heart, and responding to the 'tug' you feel and in time, God will reveal himself to you. God sent Jesus into the world to 'show ' us how He wanted things done. He sent his deciples out to preach... two together. They are there to support each other and be a 'witness' for each other before 'men'... of God's leading. I don't ask you to 'take my word for it'....I ask you to READ AND PRAY, then READ AND PRAY some more....
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Post by notwhat unplugged on Jun 3, 2006 0:50:00 GMT -5
Yes, CKatz, I am in TN.
I have great difficulty with praying or talking to someone I cannot see, but I keep trying in hopes the prayers are going wherever they are supposed to go.
I really enjoy reading the hymns and, strangely, various ones have come into my head off and on for about a year. Some of the hymns are not in the newer version of the hymn book, so they must have been catalogued somewhere in my brain from 25+ years ago. How weird it that??
I also find it odd that I have thought of questions before a meeting and I have gotten an answer during the meeting.
I'm going to the convention grounds tomorrow with my Dad to work a bit, and I'm sure I'll be asking lots of questions of the workers there, as I am wont to do!
Thanks for the advice...
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Post by CKatz on Jun 3, 2006 0:50:29 GMT -5
Hi - I am assuming you are in TN? I would like to encourage you to keep listening with your hungry heart, and responding to the 'tug' you feel and in time, God will reveal himself to you. God sent Jesus into the world to 'show ' us how He wanted things done. He sent his deciples out to preach... two together. They are there to support each other and be a 'witness' for each other before 'men'... of God's leading. I don't ask you to 'take my word for it'....I ask you to READ AND PRAY, then READ AND PRAY some more....
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Post by sjg on Jun 3, 2006 11:56:17 GMT -5
To "notwhatunplugged" I encourage you to ask the workers ALL the questions that are on your mind---questions that have been asked on this board....but I wouldn't hold my breath that they will be answered. Questions are frowned upon and show an UNwilling spirit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2006 16:46:33 GMT -5
hey notwhat
My parents own a cabin in Gatlinburg which we have let many overseers etc use for extended periods of time as a retreat. My father worked at Oakridge for a while and s branch of my extended family has professed there since the twenties. Even though I do not currently live there, I feel very familiar with your area of the country and I have a great love for it.
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Post by notwhat on Jun 3, 2006 21:32:19 GMT -5
daisy! I live less than an hour from Gatlinburg and one half an hour from Oak Ridge. Do you happen to know the overseer in TN? He is one of the reasons I returned to meetings... Have you been to meetings here?
sjg, thanks for that advice. I am slooooowly asking questions in a non-confrontational manner.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2006 21:47:04 GMT -5
My parents know all the top oversears in the United States. I have been to meetings in Tn However it has been nearly twenty years. My family moved constantly while I was growing up, I have lived in seventeen states, as well as several places in Europe and South America. I do love your area of the country, and remember the cuisine and southern hospitality with great fondness. I think there are no cooks in the world who can tempt me like the cooks in that area!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2006 21:57:14 GMT -5
I should add Gatlinburg is one of the most beautiful places in the world, a place I truly love and feel peaceful and at home in. You are lucky to live near there! Someday I hope I can get back permanently.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 3, 2006 23:28:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry if I sounded arrogant about praying for PRBRT. I am a sinner.
I really do pray for PBBRTE - not because I feel "holier" but because I remember deception as a way of life. I feel the pain of having to cover one lie with 10 others. I feel sorry for someone who must do that.
Was I preaching? Sorry for that too. I'm a sinner.
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by notwhat on Jun 4, 2006 0:12:28 GMT -5
daisy, I am lucky and thankful to live here, despite our reputation in TN for being barefoot and stupid (or is it barefoot and pregnant?) I'd love to meet you if you come this way...
Jessi, I always think of those verses in Matthew 6:5-6 when I hear anyone say they will pray for someone who does not think exactly like they do. Yep, that sounded pretty arrogant to me. Can you just write whatever you want to and then get excused by saying "I'm a sinner?" That's pretty cool!(Sorry if that was mean-spirited...I'm a sinner!!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2006 0:40:24 GMT -5
I would like to meet you too. Perhaps it will happen someday.
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Post by Jessi on Jun 4, 2006 1:06:32 GMT -5
Notwhat: Are you a Christian?
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Post by notwhat on Jun 4, 2006 7:43:09 GMT -5
Jessi, So we are supposed to answer a question by asking one?
Okay.
Is it your understanding that arrogance is a Christ-like quality?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 4, 2006 8:57:20 GMT -5
Not what:
No. arrogance is not a Christ-like quality. But I am a sinner. I mess up sometimes. I am still in the flesh. I'm very sorry for being arrogant.
Will you forgive me, NotWhat?
Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by For Happy on Jun 4, 2006 11:07:44 GMT -5
John 9:34 (CEV) The leaders told the man, "You have been a sinner since the day you were born! Do you think you can teach us anything?" Then they said, "You can never come back into any of our meeting places!"
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Post by learning mode on Jun 4, 2006 11:52:35 GMT -5
That's scary! When you're sleeping are you nodding - that might be taken as agreement
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Post by happy on Jun 4, 2006 16:22:39 GMT -5
John 9:34 (CEV) The leaders told the man, "You have been a sinner since the day you were born! Do you think you can teach us anything?" Then they said, "You can never come back into any of our meeting places!" Am I hereby banned from the TMB? Being preached to in church differs greatly from being preached at by someone who thinks they have all the answers.
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Post by notwhat on Jun 4, 2006 19:33:36 GMT -5
Today at 9:57am, Jessi wrote: No. arrogance is not a Christ-like quality. But I am a sinner. I mess up sometimes. I am still in the flesh. I'm very sorry for being arrogant.
Will you forgive me, NotWhat?
Christ's Forever, Jessi
Of course I will! I don't hold grudges. Thank you for your apology!
The answer to your question is no, I am not a Christian if being one means I have a personal relationship with Jesus. I have never had a personal relationship with Him. It has not, thus far, been possible for me to have a personal relationship with someone or some being that I cannot see, hear, or touch. I think it's sweet that others seem to be able to have the sort of faith that allows them to do this.
The only people I have seen who have qualities I am even slightly in awe of are some in the F&W group. I have seen characteristics in some that remind me of the way Jesus was in the bible. Something is helping them to have those characteristics. I am trying to find out who it is. This is why I have had a renewed interest.
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Mother dear see here see here
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Post by Mother dear see here see here on Jun 4, 2006 20:12:57 GMT -5
Did anyone see what NB posted a while back?
"I say... those who come to God must have Faith in Him. The listeners must believe the 2x2s Itinerant workers' message"
Do you all agree with that?
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Post by Jessi on Jun 4, 2006 20:21:22 GMT -5
NOTWHAT:
Thanks for your forgiveness.
Questions: If you must see, hear or touch something in order to believe, what exactly are you looking for on the computer? Anyone could lie to you here. In fact, there is much more of a chance that you will encounter wolves here, where no one REALLY knows you.
Is it better for you somehow, the impersonal, hidden identity thing?
What is it then that you are looking for on this board if the F&Ws remind you of Jesus?
How do you know they are like Jesus? Don't you fellowship with them in person?
Christ's, Jessi
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Post by notwhat on Jun 4, 2006 21:33:00 GMT -5
Jessi wrote: Questions: If you must see, hear or touch something in order to believe, what exactly are you looking for on the computer? Anyone could lie to you here. In fact, there is much more of a chance that you will encounter wolves here, where no one REALLY knows you.
I am wondering if anyone can convince me that there is something better "out there" than the F&W. As one who was raised in the F&W, I realize I am biased in their favor. It would be a million times easier for me if I was able to just be a Baptist like almost everyone around me. I cannot. I have tried.
Is it better for you somehow, the impersonal, hidden identity thing?
It is actually better than the personal experiences I have had in churches where no one can understand my thinking and where I have become frustrated. This is much less intense and frightening for me.
What is it then that you are looking for on this board if the F&Ws remind you of Jesus?
Again, I am wondering if someone can convince me that I am absolutely wrong about the F&W so I can totally give up on the whole idea of religion. I'm pretty clear I cannot get anything out of "normal" churches. If I don't get some direction from the creator through these folks, I guess that's about it for me. I decided long ago that I was probably hell bound.
How do you know they are like Jesus? Don't you fellowship with them in person?
I don't know Jesus, but I have read about him. I have compared the overseer, workers, and friends here to what I have read about him. I see similar characteristics. Although I do not know Him, I believe that those people do, and I think He must be real to them and that He causes them to have the good qualities I see in them.
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Post by For the record on Jun 4, 2006 22:44:12 GMT -5
Did anyone see what NB posted a while back? "I say... those who come to God must have Faith in Him. The listeners must believe the 2x2s Itinerant workers' message" Do you all agree with that? I say.... those who come to God must have Faith in Him. The listeners must believe and "accept" the 2x2s Itinerant workers are called and sent by God as His messengers or God's workers who labor in His harvest field. « Last Edit: Today at 9:23pm by Nathan9 »
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Post by Jessi on Jun 5, 2006 0:11:11 GMT -5
NotWhat: Thank you for answering my questions. I have been through some of what you wrote. I was B&R. I was taught that other churches were apostate, though, that they were not saved, that no one who is not in the F&W would be saved.
When I found out about WI, I read the Bible from cover to cover and found out I knew very little about the scriptures, but I burned to know them.
Two years ago, I read the Bible again from cover to cover, while attending the first "apostate" church I ever attended in my life. The first time, it was all I could do to remain seated and not run out. I wanted to run back to what was more comfortable. NO BELIEFS AT ALL. That was better than this William Irvine failed experiment thing. But they preached Christ and they answered all my questions and they even answered the phone when I called at dinner and they prayed with me and for me, even over the phone!
But the Christ of God prays for me, he intercedes for me and I have asked for more of His Holy Spirit (Luke 11:11-13) with confidence that he will show me more and more. I love the Holy Word. I love Christ. I never felt this way before. I never WANTED to do better before.
I am not trying to PREACH ANYONE AWAY FROM THE 2x2s -- only there's one thing I know for sure. I am responsible for seeking out my own salvation and when I stand before God to be judged, I can be sure I am STANDING and not flat on my face in the dirt readying myself for the eternal fire . . . ONLY because God sees me THROUGH my advocate, Jesus Christ, not a group of people or how good I am or ANYTHING I may have said or done.
Thanks for letting me share, too. Thanks for the dialogue.
Love in Christ, Jessi
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2006 6:24:22 GMT -5
Lifted from another thread... To I, sjg, Jessie, and happy (and anyone else):
If a person believes that God is calling him/her to Him through the F&W fellowship, what advice would you offer that person?
Respectfully, notwhat What would you tell the millions and millions of Moslems that sincerly feel that God is calling them via Islam?
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