IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
|
Post by IQ on May 20, 2006 1:35:20 GMT -5
Has the truth about the "truth" set you free?
Really?
Has it?
|
|
|
Post by as i c it on May 20, 2006 3:11:41 GMT -5
InnocentQ,
In what way? Could you be more specific please.
|
|
|
Post by ozelaine on May 20, 2006 4:41:42 GMT -5
InnocentQ,
No, the truth about the F&W's hasn't set me free but the truth about the Gospel of Jesus Christ has.
Being set free is all about Jesus finding me and revealing the truth of His Gospel to me. Belief in the true Gospel is what brings true liberty.
"According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world..."
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
|
|
|
Post by ThisIs on May 20, 2006 7:48:36 GMT -5
Has the truth about the "truth" set you free? Really? Has it? This is a parrot of one of Nathans dreams. On his website he has a little blurb of the same question. He hope many will publish and allow him to post but it has not worked out.
|
|
|
Post by selah on May 20, 2006 8:25:53 GMT -5
I agree with OzElaine.
Many of the f&w feel that our continued involvement (through these boards etc.) demonstrates that we are still "attached", or that we are not "free".
Some even think that it's because of a suppressed desire to return to meetings. It has even been said to me in person, that the reason I do what I do is because I "know" what is really right and my conscience is bothering me.
I hope someday the f&w who feel this way, will understand that the real motivation is LOVE.
When I first left the meetings, I was so sad for not having their acceptance anymore. Those who considered me their sister, now rejected that bond. Because of their beliefs, they thought I had rejected them as my brethren....I hadn't....I had just rejected some of the beliefs.
Desiring that acceptance caused me to hunger for fellowship with them. It was not my longing for the "perfect way". I knew the perfect way, and His name is Jesus. But I wanted them to see that I hadn't left Him at all.
Soon the emphasis shifted from desiring their acceptance (I knew God accepted me, and that's all I needed) to longing for them to enjoy God's all-encompasing and unconditional love for themselves.
I thought maybe reality would loose them into His perfect love. Maybe if they discovered that their fellowship was not really different from other churches in its imperfections, it would jog their thinking. Because I loved them so much, I wanted them to see clearly, and I felt the only way they could, would be for the fellowship to acknowledge its error, just like other churches. It had so often claimed to be the "perfect way"...so I hoped they would see nothing is perfect, save Jesus Christ Himself.
That didn't seem to work, because to many of them I was "mud-slinging".
Then I tried focusing on Jesus Christ, the truth, the way and the life. By lifting Him up, surely the f&w would recognize it's not about the framework of fellowship and worship, but about the Savior of the world and our love for Him.
They thought I was giving Him "lip service".
Trying to build bridges of communication can sometimes be misconstrued as the "enemy sneaking in".
So, since our motivations can be so easily misunderstood, should we give up?
So many have said, "If you're happy with what you have, why do you keep hanging around these boards?"
The answer is LOVE. Love for God, love for His truth (Jesus), love for YOU, the f&w.
We are free in Christ, but forever bound in the bonds of love for all people (I particularly love the f&w because they're "my people"), especially for the sake of the gospel.
Blessings, Linda
|
|
|
Post by love on May 20, 2006 8:54:41 GMT -5
"Soon the emphasis shifted from desiring their acceptance (I knew God accepted me, and that's all I needed) to longing for them to enjoy God's all-encompasing and unconditional love for themselves."
This seems to imply (as many do) that 2x2s do not enjoy Gods love. It extends by logic to saying that 2x2s are not saved. This is virtually an escape from one group that excludes others, to another that assumed the former is lost.
|
|
IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
|
Post by IQ on May 20, 2006 12:17:20 GMT -5
InnocentQ, In what way? Could you be more specific please. Has the truth = the history and other profound items brought to light. about the "truth" = the 2x2s, fellowship, workers and friends. set you free = peace, serenity, hope, love, rest... If so, by what means?
|
|
IQ
Senior Member
Posts: 942
|
Post by IQ on May 20, 2006 12:18:53 GMT -5
Has the truth about the "truth" set you free? Really? Has it? This is a parrot of one of Nathans dreams. On his website he has a little blurb of the same question. He hope many will publish and allow him to post but it has not worked out. Are we being paranoid? If not, please explain. Better yet, explain why you felt the need to post your reply!
|
|
|
Post by absolutely on May 20, 2006 12:51:07 GMT -5
InnocentQ, In what way? Could you be more specific please. Has the truth = the history and other profound items brought to light. about the "truth" = the 2x2s, fellowship, workers and friends. set you free = peace, serenity, hope, love, rest... If so, by what means? It drove me into prayer and study. I found the true gospel of grace, and found out that because of Jesus I could please God now and forever. I received God's free gift through faith in Jesus. I have real purspose and joy now. I have security, I have an anchor that holds, and i know that God loved me, flaws and all, enough to give His Son for me. Now life is lighter, my burden of sin, of being unpleasing to God, has been carried away and killed on the Cross by Jesus! I am free! And I am His and nothing can change that. me
|
|
|
Post by not sure on May 20, 2006 13:12:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure what is meant by the "truth" about the truth.
Is there something I should know that I don't?
|
|
|
Post by selah on May 20, 2006 14:27:30 GMT -5
"Soon the emphasis shifted from desiring their acceptance (I knew God accepted me, and that's all I needed) to longing for them to enjoy God's all-encompasing and unconditional love for themselves." This seems to imply (as many do) that 2x2s do not enjoy Gods love. It extends by logic to saying that 2x2s are not saved. This is virtually an escape from one group that excludes others, to another that assumed the former is lost. Yes, it does "seem" to imply that, but that is not what I meant, so please let me clarify. I know that I was in the f&w fellowship. I know that I did enjoy God's love while I was there. I also know that I placed limits on God's love, because of my perception of it. Do all the f&w have that incorrect perception? No...but there are many that do, and I was one of them. So my desire for "them" to experience His "unconditional" love is obviously for those within the f&w who have not done so already. I do NOT assume the f&w are lost. First, I do not believe in "groups" being lost or found. It's always concerning individuals. I believe FIRMLY that anyone who is regenerated by the Holy Spirit is saved. I know f&w who have definitely had this experience. If you have experienced the new birth; if you have been born of the Spirit and if you are a new creature in Christ, and declare that He is Lord, I accept you as my brother/sister in Christ, no matter what group you belong to. Blessings, Linda
|
|
|
Post by love on May 20, 2006 14:49:29 GMT -5
Linda thanks for your clarification of my misunderstanding (and perhaps unwarranted extrapolation) of your post.
Your views of who is saved are similar to mine and those to many 2x2s.
|
|
|
Post by a believer on May 20, 2006 18:33:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure what is meant by the "truth" about the truth. Is there something I should know that I don't? The truth you should know is that this is not the way of of, but that it is just another group/another church started by a man. Yes the truth you should know is that this group (the workers church as some call it) was not started by Jesus on the shores of Galilee as the workers claim but it was in fact started 100 years ago by a man named William in Irvine in Ireland. You should know that no group or belonging to a particular group can give you salvation, only Jesus can offer you salvation and he has done that, He did it when he died on the Cross. This group is just another group but a very exclusive one that claims that one can only obtain salvation through their group and that all other groups/churches are false. Yes, you should know that that statement is false.
|
|
|
Post by ilylo on May 20, 2006 19:04:16 GMT -5
Has the truth about the "truth" set you free? Free from what?
|
|
|
Post by James Bradley on May 21, 2006 14:32:10 GMT -5
Dear Nathan, I was a Roman CatholiHONKYTONK-HOEDOWN-WHOOPTYDOOil I was 24 and I met the truth though a couple of Professing people that were in New Paltz and I attended meetings in Middletown New York. I went to 3 meetings and I professed in a convention (Altamont) The couple whom I am still friends with is the Jones's. Being a part of the friends was what I though was a great experience. I professed for twenty five years and lived in many states, New York and Penn, Pa. I am a Correction Officer and did visit Ed Williams, to invite him back to meetings. He left probably 1 and 1/2 eariler, Ed was gracious but told me of the truth's beginnings and told me to investigate and then ask the workers about what I had investigated. I did this and found out about William Irvine and how he was the first worker, I thought that the first worker was Jesus, because "Jesus Christ" and the work were one in the same. But they are not, I asked Charles Steffen about William Irvine, he was cool about William Irvine but he said that he knew of such a man. Now that might seem inconsequential, but if Charles Steffen knew of such a man, that "WAS" and I found out that William Irvine had the first convention and sent out many workers, even to the USA but also many parts of the globe. Now this is fine and good, but if he was the first worker, then they lied to me and one lie is also many lies, like the worker is the only one who can preach the word of God, thats False, but little lies. The Jones told me the "Stump" theory, which contradict that Jesus was the first worker and that He had another 12 workers and then 40 more. All Contradictions. The truth is the great "Gnosticism" meaning it produces knowledge but not the TRUTH. Nathan, what I mean is look the Truth up, investigate it, know it not take the workers point of view, because if you do then you are just like the Catholics who take the priest point of view. They (the Catholics) don't enter in the veil only the priest does, but the veil was rent in twain, Matt 27:51. Look it up........Jim Bradley
|
|
zing
Junior Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by zing on May 21, 2006 23:46:24 GMT -5
I was always free... or so I thought From childhood I avoided anything to do with the 'truth, friends & workers'... I honestly prayed to God... but thought Jesus was an evil character, due to the fact that I honestly thought 'The Truth' were portraying him... now that I am beginning to understand the real Jesus & Holy Spirit, and roles / purposes, I have begun to realize that this important link not taught to me, has inhibited my true freedom, because I was always looking over my shoulder, and wondering what was going on. Also knowing the real truth about 'The Truth' is having the effect of peeling off layers and layers of burden... guilt, confusion, abuse and parts of me that are not working because of spin-off effects of being taught wrong.. which I had no idea were even there. It is a real freeing feeling, and I would say that the feeling is of having a huge burden lifted off my shoulders...someone else's burden.... which was placed on me, or that I placed on myself unknowingly... I know longer feel that I have to, in any way, carry that burden, nor enable the ones still burdened with 'The Truth'
|
|
|
Post by spiderman on May 22, 2006 8:42:18 GMT -5
Has the truth about the "truth" set you free? Really? Has it? Hi Q, You know me and I know you as well. I also know exactly what you mean. In my case, ( I can only speak for myself) the truth about the "truth" has indeed set me free. I'm am not bitter. I know people are talking about me and my family and what a shame it is that we've lost our faith, and to a certain degree that hurts, but we fully expected as much. To be free to welcome other Christians as a part of the body of Christ is truly a blessing of this freedom. Not being bound by the traditions set forth in the "Living Witness Doctrine" will open up an entirely scripture driven picture of Jesus, one without the Pharisaical teachings of the worker's "only way ism". So in short, yes. It Has. Really.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2006 8:58:45 GMT -5
One of the most precious freedoms I have gained since our exit from 2x2ism is the freedom to appreciate, learn from, and value the spiritual beauties in the folks we live amongst and work with in daily life.
It is important in the 2x2 mindset to regard all non-proffessing folks as "poor lost things that just need to get to meetings and proffess" and it would be 2x2 heritics to admire spiritual qualities in neighbors and acquaintences if they don't go to meetings.
Now I can love and appreciate folks, without having to try and figure out how I can get them to meetings first!!
|
|
|
Post by amazed on May 22, 2006 9:22:45 GMT -5
One thing that I admire about "worldy" Christians is that they openly profess to love Christ and the blessings they receive from God. I want so much to be able to openly, vocally, say the things that are in my heart but being b&r in a home where you never spoke about Jesus in public it is another hard thing to get past.
|
|
|
Post by Herbie on May 22, 2006 12:44:01 GMT -5
"It is important in the 2x2 mindset to regard all non-proffessing folks as "poor lost things that just need to get to meetings and proffess" and it would be 2x2 heritics to admire spiritual qualities in neighbors and acquaintences if they don't go to meetings. "
Actually there are many 2x2s who have no such attitudes, contrary to Edgars posting.
"One of the most precious freedoms I have gained since our exit from 2x2ism is the freedom to appreciate, learn from, and value the spiritual beauties in the folks we live amongst and work with in daily life."
And there are many 2x23s who don't need to leave to do this.
|
|
|
Post by Zorro on May 22, 2006 13:36:00 GMT -5
Actually there are many 2x2s who have no such attitudes, contrary to Edgars posting.
Personally, I think you are being liberal with the use of the word "many". In 30 years, my personal observation would be that "a few" would be appropriate. I have heard F&Ws openly describe people they've never met before as lost, "many" times. In fact, I've been informed that I, myself, have been declared lost and of the anti-Christ by people who don't even know me. They do know I've left the fellowship and, apparently, that's all they need to know.
|
|
|
Post by happy on May 22, 2006 13:51:30 GMT -5
The truth has completely complicated my life, honestly. At times, I could be classified into that famous "bitter" catagory for not knowing sooner, for all the rules that aren't biblical, for the lack of people being willing to talk...which comes across as lack of concern...etc. etc.
I was at a church service recently where the pastor gave the invitation for any who hadn't been saved, to come and declare Jesus as their savior. They didn't have to join the church, which kind of surprised me. Same with baptism. He would meet with the person and discuss what it means to them, then baptize. but they didn't have to join HIS church. Sure made me think.
|
|
|
Post by spiderman on May 22, 2006 13:54:44 GMT -5
"It is important in the 2x2 mindset to regard all non-proffessing folks as "poor lost things that just need to get to meetings and proffess" and it would be 2x2 heritics to admire spiritual qualities in neighbors and acquaintences if they don't go to meetings. " Actually there are many 2x2s who have no such attitudes, contrary to Edgars posting. "One of the most precious freedoms I have gained since our exit from 2x2ism is the freedom to appreciate, learn from, and value the spiritual beauties in the folks we live amongst and work with in daily life." And there are many 2x23s who don't need to leave to do this. Hi Herbie, I think "many" might be relative to where you are. When you look at the whole fellowship at once, you see many different ideas, doctrines, practices, rules(spoken and unspoken). You see differences among workers on major issues. But there is one issue that stands out as THE most consistent among the F&W's and that is exclusivity. As the overseer of Iowa said at a special meeting this year, "Look, we all know that this is the only right way, we just don't have to go around TELLING people that!" You can stay until you're dead and think whatever you want to think and the likelihood is that no one will bother you. But I just did not want to be involved in an exclusive Christian cult. I'm not mad, bitter, or upset with anyone. I'm just gone.
|
|
|
Post by Herbie on May 22, 2006 15:09:08 GMT -5
Spiderman said "I'm not mad, bitter, or upset with anyone. I'm just gone."
Well, you're not gone, you're still at it here on this board.
Yes, I speak relative to when I am, as I imagine you do from where you are.
But your experience not being in accord doesn't make yours wrong, and mine right, or vice versa.
But for either of us to state that ALL are black or ALL are white is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by studylearning on May 22, 2006 15:18:19 GMT -5
"It is important in the 2x2 mindset to regard all non-proffessing folks as "poor lost things that just need to get to meetings and proffess" and it would be 2x2 heritics to admire spiritual qualities in neighbors and acquaintences if they don't go to meetings. " Actually there are many 2x2s who have no such attitudes, contrary to Edgar's posting."One of the most precious freedoms I have gained since our exit from 2x2ism is the freedom to appreciate, learn from, and value the spiritual beauties in the folks we live amongst and work with in daily life." And there are many 2x23s who don't need to leave to do this. As far as my experiences, your statements regarding Edgar's post are just not true. In just the last few weeks I had workers say to me, "You can't really believe that people in other churches have salvation do you?" My response was of course why would you not? With reference to others outside the fellowship of F&W, they are all considered wrong. The F&W speak of them as "well yes they are very good people and have good morals, but, they just don't have the real thing." Note: By default it was made known to me that I was welcome to continue in the F&W so long as I don't speak of those outside the fellowship of the F&W being saved. If I continued saying things good about others in other fellowship my testimony was considered "not edifying". How sad that those who I have fellowship with so long and many many years do not see that they have reduced the Glory of God through Jesus into a worship turned in on themselves. I was also not to speak of God incarnate. They do not teach that. i.e. God the Son being the full embodiment of God in God the Son. Since Jesus is fully diety as part of the God Head He is fully God. I it is also not taught nor do the F&W believe in the Trinity. Ask one worker and tell me what they believe in these three areas? You will get so many anwers that it will spin in any direction but the truth.
|
|
|
Post by Herbie on May 22, 2006 16:02:56 GMT -5
you would not want me to deny your experience, but you wish to deny the experiences of others?
In MY experience its as I stated. Thats not to say that its like that everywhere. But its like that in several places I have first hand knowledge of.
|
|
|
Post by you bet on May 22, 2006 17:34:11 GMT -5
To answer the original question....
Y E S ! ! !
|
|
|
Post by bluejay on May 22, 2006 18:00:26 GMT -5
One of the most precious freedoms I have gained since our exit from 2x2ism is the freedom to appreciate, learn from, and value the spiritual beauties in the folks we live amongst and work with in daily life. It is important in the 2x2 mindset to regard all non-proffessing folks as "poor lost things that just need to get to meetings and proffess" and it would be 2x2 heritics to admire spiritual qualities in neighbors and acquaintences if they don't go to meetings. Now I can love and appreciate folks, without having to try and figure out how I can get them to meetings first!! Edgar I totally agree! I had bought so totally the exclusive doctrine that I had been unable to see God in the lives of anyone if they didn't attend meetings. Once I became filled with the Holy Spirit it was like I was seeing with new eyes and hearing with new ears. Even now ... six years later it still brings tears of joy to my eyes when I worship and share with those who in the past I would have considered "lost". God is working in my community through many different people from many different churches. It's a wonderful thing to be able to see His hand in the small daily events in my life. So yes - the truth about "the truth" did set me free .... free to be able to seriously & honestly check out the info I had found here on line. To balance what I was reading with what I'd been taught, and to see truth, real truth, in the Gospel story. Never in a million years did I expect the outcome to be what it has been. Thanks be to God for His mercy and Grace.
|
|