forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 17, 2006 14:05:36 GMT -5
I heard from US that exs distributed handbills clamped to cars at convention places. Does someone know about success of such attempts? Maybe if only a little number of people are reached then it's a triumph. I think a lot of people need little clues in order to think with their own head.
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Post by bill poster on May 17, 2006 14:10:02 GMT -5
Do you think that such an aggressive way to spread this info is likely to be very successful. I think that most will be thrown away without being read.
What message would you send anyway?
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Post by mrleo on May 17, 2006 14:20:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't recommend it, just because it's an annoying and invasive form of advertising...and in the case of doing it on private property I would consider it trespassing. I hate finding handbills under my windshield when I park on the street or in a parking ramp in public space...regardless of whether I support fair labor practices (a recent example), I'm ultimately left with a piece of paper that I didn't ask for and that I now feel obligated to recycle.
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Post by Cherie on May 17, 2006 14:40:05 GMT -5
Yes, it has been done. I have known also of some who have picketed conventions; some have driven by and onto conv grounds with signs in the back of their pickups. There have been small and large scale mailings made. There have been flyers put under the wipers on cars while owners were at Special Mtgs. Tracts put on seats at convention. It has been said that a 1% return is the usual for mailings. It's impossible to guage the results of the above.
And one time the sister workers were held hostage in their quarters at conv. and to their horror, their captor cut off their long hair.
Just kidding!
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Post by trigger on May 17, 2006 15:40:16 GMT -5
I heard from US that exs distributed handbills clamped to cars at convention places. Does someone know about success of such attempts? Maybe if only a little number of people are reached then it's a triumph. I think a lot of people need little clues in order to think with their own head. Hi Forest, I remember flyers being tucked under the windshield wipers of cars at the odd gospel meeting and convention, the workers were very annoyed and everyone was instructed to throw them away without reading them. I also recall a letter being sent to the friends in my area and the same thing happened, the workers went nutts and ordered everyone to not open it but to burn it instead. Personally I think it's maybe not the best idea to be posting flyers because people tend to take offense and the effectivity rate isn't so high when the powers that be just tell everyone to pitch them, but maybe some people do actually read them and think about things. I, like you, wish so much that people could see things the way they are, that they could see the "truth" for what it is and be open-minded, but they seem to be so tied in that they can't, or don't seem to be able to, see anything but what they have had beaten into their heads. Trigger
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Post by eh on May 17, 2006 15:42:44 GMT -5
"that they could see the "truth" for what it is "
I see this sort of comment often here but I still don't know what its all about.
What is the truth? What truth is being hidden?
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Post by 123 on May 17, 2006 15:43:00 GMT -5
Jim Bradley has a sign in the back of his pickup that he displays at the Altamont NY convention in August.
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forest
Junior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by forest on May 17, 2006 16:14:08 GMT -5
@ trigger
Thank You. This would be only one way to tell someone a message. So which other kinds of telling others can be practiced? US or CA isn't Europe! So how do they help there others to get the "truth about the truth"?
God let us see so many things about the really truth. Otherwise we should try to help others. That will be difficult but it's needful to do. Shouldn't be that our opinion?
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 17, 2006 21:24:25 GMT -5
I honestly think distributing handbiils at a conventiopn wouldnt be a very effective way. I believe unless people are really searching for something different no matter what you tell them, They wont see it.
I believe they must become very disatisfied before they are ready to move on and to seek fulfillment someplace else.
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Post by LauraLateComer on May 17, 2006 22:21:31 GMT -5
The first time I saw a letter, I was at convention. I found the letter Sunday afternoon, sealed in an envelope, in my suitcase in the sleeping quarters. I have no idea who put it there.
Rushed, I stuffed it into my purse. Later that evening, on the way home, I decided to see what it was about. I read the first three lines or so and it struck me; "This is that poisonous letter the workers warned us about last year." I read no further. The letter got trown in a pile of 'rubble' at home.
Nearly 10 years later, I'd been spritually struggling in Truth when I came across the letter. I had forgotten I even had it.
This time, I read the whole thing, and it changed my life. Thank God, literally.
Reflecting, I realize that 10 years of my life had been largely wasted simply because I didn't take the time to read that "long" letter. It strikes me that had it been shorter and more to the point (even possible), I'd been done reading it before I'd realized what it was I'd read. (But of course, too short means it has holes and doesn't answer questions.)
I mull over this quite often; how could one write *Very Briefly* something that would cause a brain-washed cult member to research these things for themselves to discover the real truth (especially in this, the age of the internet)?
Sadly, I don't know that it's possible.
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Post by the letter on May 17, 2006 22:24:29 GMT -5
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Post by ithascome on May 17, 2006 22:50:34 GMT -5
I was turned off in the first paragraph of the above letter/link
"You are the captain of your soul, master of your fate, the only one accountable for your life, so you must have an accurate understanding of what God expects you to believe and do."
What do you think about that statement.
In contrast, Psalm 51 says, "A broken and contrite heart I will not despise."
Self-sufficient masters of their own fate, don't ask for help, don't admit failure, don't confess sins, don't' open their hands. And they aren't blessed.
It is no wonder that 2x2s would reject it.
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Post by jxr on May 18, 2006 6:03:24 GMT -5
Distribute CDs with the audio of some of the Alberta Excommunication dialogue. That would open a few ears.
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Post by Even better on May 18, 2006 6:10:03 GMT -5
Distribute CDs with the audio of some of the Alberta Excommunication dialogue. That would open a few ears. It could be even more effictive to edit them to present the worst possible side without ever mentioning why the people were asked to cease attendng meetings.
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Post by xlnt idea on May 18, 2006 7:08:20 GMT -5
Distribute CDs with the audio of some of the Alberta Excommunication dialogue. That would open a few ears. It could be even more effictive to edit them to present the worst possible side without ever mentioning why the people were asked to cease attendng meetings. What an excellent idea!
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Post by happy on May 18, 2006 7:27:02 GMT -5
Good intentions without God's leading will have little affect. Praying and yielding to God and realizing he can do ANYTHING he so desires, is the answer for me. If he chooses to use me one way or another, I pray I'm available to him.
God's timing is so very different from our impatient, human timing, IMO.
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Post by jxr on May 18, 2006 7:43:10 GMT -5
Good intentions without God's leading will have little affect. Praying and yielding to God and realizing he can do ANYTHING he so desires, is the answer for me. If he chooses to use me one way or another, I pray I'm available to him. God's timing is so very different from our impatient, human timing, IMO. So if I get the CDs mastered and pressed, you'd be willing to distribute them to all the friends in your area? Related question: How do you discern when God is wanting you to actually do something, rather than leaving it to Him to do magic? Is your willingness coloured by your world view. Like, for example. if you were "prompted" to run stark-naked through the convention grounds whilst they were in full swing, would you do it, or would your natural inhibitions prevent you from fulfilling God's wish? Would you dismiss such an urge on the basis that God wouldn't expect someone to behave like that? Not sure what running stark-naked would achieve, but really, who are we to question God's ways? Running stark-naked aside, I often wonder if the 'pray to God' attitude is a bit of a cop-out. An euphemistic way of saying let someone else deal the difficult issues or let's not talk about this taboo subject, God will find a way to resolve this. What do you think?
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Post by happy on May 18, 2006 7:48:12 GMT -5
Not sure who you are asking.....
How do I discern? I believe in spending time in prayer all day (as I go about, not at home all day). I DO believe in God's leading thru this way. I also believe in reading scriptures daily and getting familiar with God's word and thoughts on things. This may not be for you, but it works for me.
No, I won't distribute your CDs. When the books came out in the 90s, I remember many people saying they threw them out unopened. I would leave one laying on my counter, though, and if someone wished to take it, they could. A living testimony is more effective, IMO of course.
But if CDs are for you, I won't down you for it...maybe they'll have a positive affect on someone. Good luck.
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Post by happy on May 18, 2006 7:52:33 GMT -5
PS: My goal is to get MY life in order and in line with God, not anyone else's at this point. I have SOO much to learn and I have my hands full just doing that.
Maybe, JXR, you have yours in order and now you're ready to fix others. I'm not there.
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Post by jxr on May 18, 2006 8:13:29 GMT -5
The first question (distributing the CDs) was rhetorical.
I don't think I'll be bothering to mass produce CDs. I'll just hijack the PA frequency at conventions. ;D Just kidding.
It is not my nature to impose any point of view on another. What I will do though, is probe peoples sincerity.
I do agree with you on your comments about spending time in prayer, duing the day. I often wonder, however, if there is a tendency to shy away from difficult tasks by dismissing the validity of a prompting..
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Post by amazed on May 18, 2006 9:03:08 GMT -5
I was turned off in the first paragraph of the above letter/link "You are the captain of your soul, master of your fate, the only one accountable for your life, so you must have an accurate understanding of what God expects you to believe and do." What do you think about that statement. In contrast, Psalm 51 says, "A broken and contrite heart I will not despise." Self-sufficient masters of their own fate, don't ask for help, don't admit failure, don't confess sins, don't' open their hands. And they aren't blessed. It is no wonder that 2x2s would reject it. If we are not responsible for our own souls, then who is? God gives us the choice to be washed in the blood of Jesus. He does not, nor does anyone else make this choice for us.
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Post by l on May 18, 2006 9:33:08 GMT -5
Get a semi and write William irvine across it that would be good it raises questions that 2x2s have to lie about?Then on the day of convention get the semi stuck in the mud across from the convention grounds something like that!
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Post by selah on May 18, 2006 9:43:38 GMT -5
PS: My goal is to get MY life in order and in line with God, not anyone else's at this point. I have SOO much to learn and I have my hands full just doing that. Maybe, JXR, you have yours in order and now you're ready to fix others. I'm not there. Hi Happy, You are right that each of us needs to get our own lives in order, BUT will there be a day this side of heaven when we can say, "Yes, I'm done. My life is in perfect order with God. Now I can help others?" If the disciples waited to have their own lives in perfect order, we would not have had their ministry or their testimonies today. So, we must yield our lives to Him, trusting Him to complete the work He has started, while we continue to help others understand how to do that too. It's true, we need to take the beam out of our own eye, before we can see to take the splinter from another's eye, but we can't wait until we're completely perfect before we bring truth to others. Blessings, Linda
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Post by as i c it on May 18, 2006 10:16:22 GMT -5
jxr,
How do you discern when God is actually wanting you to do something?
Your conscience, for one thing, won't leave you alone. The Bible (and the Holy Spirit) will convict you --just as it does when an individual has been called into the work, and doesn't want to go. (All that individual sees and hears, everywhere he "runs": and everytime he opens his Bible, or that hymns get sung is "the work")
And you'll know--that you're guilty before God: and why. (And that "why" will be because whatever is keeping you from doing the right thing, has something to do with you--and a cost/a loss that is of this earth---which is keeping you from obeying God (and doing what is right in His eyes)
And it just won't go away... So you'll have no peace...until you do whatever it is God wants you to do (And meanwhile, you'll know...you're wrong with God...and why...and probably fear dying...)
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Post by bluejay on May 18, 2006 10:22:39 GMT -5
This is an excellent question, and one I too have thought about for some time now.
I can only speak from personal experiences, but I've found that any declaration of having God guiding my life while outside the f&w's fellowship is met by disbelief from my professing relatives. They know about the excommunications in AB. They also know personally some who were asked to leave, or who left of their own choosing. Despite having enjoyed ongoing fellowship for years with some of them .... they now feel their spirit isn't right since leaving.
After much prayer over this topic, I believe my mandate from God is to reach those in my community who know nothing about Jesus ... those who need to be told about Grace. I believe I can exhibit Christ's love for me by becoming a servant to those around me. Care about their daily needs & allow God to work through me.
Those who know about the beginnings of this fellowship & the concerns of "exes" know where to turn if and when God leads them to. There's a fine line between sharing info and being viewed as "bitter".
As for those still totally in the dark ... possibly just a very short note inviting people to take some time and check out certain books (give name and author). Include good Christian teaching books about Grace as well as others written by those who've left meetings. Also include the TTT website address.
After spending a frustrating hour last week talking with a professing relative I remarked that it wasn't profitable sharing spiritually with them -- as I believed in order for them to acknowledge God in my life they'd have to change their belief. This was the only point of agreement in the conversation, other than stating a mutual love for each other.
While it saddens me to face the reality that my spiritual journey isn't respected by professing family I love, I have complete and total joy on a daily basis through my relationship with Christ.
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Post by Cherie on May 18, 2006 10:53:39 GMT -5
RE: Running stark-naked--God DID instruct one of his prophets to walk naked for THREE years (and also to marry a prostitute). Pretty amazing. Can you imagine how HE felt?
Obadiah 20:2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
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Post by one of them on May 18, 2006 11:22:29 GMT -5
Obadiah is a book without chapters, so I did a check of keywords on Bible Gateway and found Cherie's quote in Isaiah 20.
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Post by Cherie on May 18, 2006 11:49:42 GMT -5
Thanks!
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