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Post by nitro on May 15, 2006 21:54:44 GMT -5
Now its time to answer some questions. Are you or were you a worker?
Why do you think those who question "TRUTH" are out to slander its people?
Do you believe that God,Jesus and the holy spirit are one?
Do you believe in Grace and Mercy?
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Post by AND on May 15, 2006 22:09:39 GMT -5
And do you believe salvation can come to those who are not in your fellowship?
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 6:32:47 GMT -5
Hi Nitro You asked "Now its time to answer some questions. Are you or were you a worker?" No, I am no worker, never have been. I hail from NSW in Australia.You asked "Why do you think those who question "TRUTH" are out to slander its people? " Depends on what you mean by the Truth. We use the word often as a designation for our faith, just like "the way." Those who attack "the truth" (ie my faith) usually seek to offend the members of that faith.You asked "Do you believe that God,Jesus and the holy spirit are one?" Sure. I also believe the faithful, Christ and God are one. I also believe the Father, Word and Spirit are one. I also believe the Spirit, Water and Blood are one. John spoke of this unity.Do you believe in Grace and Mercy? Of course. There is no truth without these. But you must needs be careful what they mean. For instance, mercy is not unlimited, nor is grace.Pleased to meet you all. I have enjoyed your board. I ought to become a member.
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Post by to MC on May 16, 2006 6:37:19 GMT -5
...and you also ought to answer the question posed to you in reply #1
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 7:09:20 GMT -5
To AND You asked "And do you believe salvation can come to those who are not in your fellowship? "
That's awfully hard to answer. I bet if I threw one at you like that you wouldn't take the time?
It is written that God knows those who love him. We are not to judge anyone - but, we can judge what is right. Christ showed us what is right. It wasn't in good works or giving to the poor, but in following him. "Following" doesn't mean literally, it means example.
When I meet people who don't have any feeling for these things, or who don't want to follow Christ's example, I wonder if they would be happy in the company of God.
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Post by to MC on May 16, 2006 8:51:22 GMT -5
nice job of dodging the question.
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Post by to MC on May 16, 2006 8:52:42 GMT -5
I take that back. You didn't dodge the question. You essentially answered "NO," but it took you a long time to do so.
Thanks for clarifying your stance on the possible salvation of others outside your fellowship.
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Post by to MC on May 16, 2006 9:32:38 GMT -5
RE Following" doesn't mean literally, it means example. When I meet people who don't have any feeling for these things, or who don't want to follow Christ's example, I wonder if they would be happy in the company of God.
The truth or falseness of this statement turns on the definition being used for "Example"... Where does the Bible define Christ's example???
Why do you advocate following the NT meeting style (in homes) if following "literally" is not necessary??
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 9:47:42 GMT -5
Dodging the question One Jewish historian, when writing about the answer Jesus gave to the Herodian about the tribute money, stated that Jesus gave a vague and unsatisfactory answer. Did Jesus answer the question, or didn't he? (Render unto Caesar ....)
How about giving me an answer... Jesus spoke of a narrow way. Please, how broad can that road be? Who won't God let into His kingdom? Scientologists? Muslims? Atheists? Terrorists? Where do you draw the line, as I did in my reply.
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 9:55:47 GMT -5
To MC. There have been times when there was little if any faith in the earth. I have no doubt that people under such circumstances never had opportunity for any sort of fellowship, or to belong to any faith. I recall seeing a painting of a Canadian Indian worshipping a totem in the moonlight. I wondered if God understands what is in the heart of every person, and whether or not they want to draw near to him. Others, however, who had the Torah, or modern bible, often had opportunity to know God better, but felt no need to pursue Him.
Defining example - Jesus gave plenty. ie He went into the ministry and had no home "the son of man has no-where to lay his head" as he put it. He then sent his 12, then 70, to do the same. That is example, and it was still going strong, right to the end of the first century.
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 10:01:49 GMT -5
To MC. There have been times when there was little if any faith in the earth. I have no doubt that people under such circumstances never had opportunity for any sort of fellowship, or to belong to any faith. I recall seeing a painting of a Canadian Indian worshipping a totem in the moonlight. I wondered if God understands what is in the heart of every person, and whether or not they want to draw near to him. Others, however, who had the Torah, or modern bible, often had opportunity to know God better, but felt no need to pursue Him.
Defining example - Jesus gave plenty. ie He went into the ministry and had no home "the son of man has no-where to lay his head" as he put it. He then sent his 12, then 70, to do the same. That is example, and it was still going strong, right to the end of the first century.
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Post by Hope For All on May 16, 2006 11:54:10 GMT -5
Dear MC,
I respect and appreciate your honest answers. You stand for what you believe.
Don't let the nay sayers get you down. They only wish to trap you with their subtle retoric- but then that's what the non-believing Jews did as well.
It is pretty easy to see the spirit of Christ -vs- the spirit of the Anti-Christ on these boards.
Love, HFA
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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 12:20:45 GMT -5
Issues that disturb my peace:
a) Christ called the disciples. Among them was Peter--who was married. b) Our church had married ministers--but--for close to thirty years, we were told nothing about them: and, instead, we were told (taught: and allowed to believe) having a married ministry was one of those things that made all the other churches "wrong" (wrong-spirited)--and our church "right".
I look at the wonderful individuals who make up the ministry today...and I love and respect them. And then I look at the past--and at the lies that were told (and kept in place) to make "us"--the only "right ones" And I think about the most honest individual I know--who became part of "that"@@@@system"--and lost that honesty (because of IT)...and I get furious!!!
How dare HONESTY be destroyed!!!
I liken to a man who is a secret alcoholic. And gets married. His wife then finds out his secret sin: and is placed in a horrible position! a) They expose the sin (and hurt/harm/and cause damage to the reputation--and image-- of the one they love: or b) They keep silent. And are "forced" to become part of it: and are "foced" to lose THEIR integrity (and THEIR honesty) in order to protect the one they love.
They may be completely honest in other areas: and completely honest when it comes to their own sin--but--EVERY TIME that one area comes up....they "have to" LIE !!! (And since no lie can stand alone, more lies have to be told--in order to keep the first lie true)
Then , the kids get born. And soon, they have to lie too.
Then--when one of the kids gets sick of all the crapola--and tries to be honest--and tries to set the family on the road to recovery---THEY become the enemy!!! (Because by now a whole lot of other people have lied--and don't want to be exposed as "liars"!
I look to the Bible: and I shake my head. I look to the past: and I shake my head.
The God I know: the one I see in the Bible: is not going to let "this stuff" stand...How can He???
Honest--so very honest..and God-loving individuals---done in by a flipping system!!! (It sickens me!) And when the excommunications took place (and when excommunications are a Catholic practice--and not a Protestant one!!)...then...for the sake of the ministry...it has to stop.
Every voice speaking truth today (and raised against them now) is going before God now. And every life damaged--will increase that load of sin--and be upon them later.
What is right--is so right. And what is wrong--is so wrong.
I don't want justice or revenge or humiliation for them. All I want is them set free. They were called by God to preach the word of God. Let them preach the word of God. Freely!!! Without having to preserve a system!
The Holy Spirit--is ALL that makes them right. Or us right. Or those in our faith right. Nothing else does.
And trying to perserve that system...is just going to do us in.
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Post by kkk on May 16, 2006 12:23:37 GMT -5
He went into the ministry?
He IS the ministry!
He did not join something that was already started.
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Post by ClayRandall on May 16, 2006 12:26:37 GMT -5
MC,
Are you the author of the new website From the Beginning - Who are the VOTs?
Clay
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Post by Zorro on May 16, 2006 12:30:55 GMT -5
as i c it, The honesty and integrity you are displaying is leading you into some difficult and painful places. But have no doubt that it is GOD who is leading you. Nothing else really to say, but just know that you're not standing out in left field all alone.
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Post by amazed on May 16, 2006 12:47:14 GMT -5
as i c it, The honesty and integrity you are displaying is leading you into some difficult and painful places. But have no doubt that it is GOD who is leading you. Nothing else really to say, but just know that you're not standing out in left field all alone. Ditto.
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Post by to MC on May 16, 2006 13:38:21 GMT -5
Dodging the question One Jewish historian, when writing about the answer Jesus gave to the Herodian about the tribute money, stated that Jesus gave a vague and unsatisfactory answer. Did Jesus answer the question, or didn't he? (Render unto Caesar ....) How about giving me an answer... Jesus spoke of a narrow way. Please, how broad can that road be? Who won't God let into His kingdom? Scientologists? Muslims? Atheists? Terrorists? Where do you draw the line, as I did in my reply. The difference, sir or ma'am (whichever you may be) is that you draw the line at anyone not involved in your fellowship. You failed to include other Christians.
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Post by to Anyone on May 16, 2006 13:58:21 GMT -5
We've heard that Jesus was abut 30 years old when he began his public ministry. How do we know Jesus' public ministry covered only about 3-1/2 years?
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Post by MC ashamed on May 16, 2006 14:11:40 GMT -5
MC should be ashamed for denying salvation to other Christians who do not attend 2x2 meetings. How utterly absurd to suggest that salvation is only reserved for those in meetings!!
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Post by where on May 16, 2006 14:12:31 GMT -5
MC should be ashamed for denying salvation to other Christians who do not attend 2x2 meetings. How utterly absurd to suggest that salvation is only reserved for those in meetings!! where did they say this?
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Post by as i c it thanks on May 16, 2006 14:49:12 GMT -5
Zorro, It's nice to see you back! Thought you might have gone a-fishing, or been busy chopping off the dandelion heads each time one dared to show itself! (And thanks to you--and others--for your support) Nathan, I believe so strongly in the Holy Spirit that the emphasis on the "right system" strikes me as so unnecessary. The Holy Spirit: a) calls the workers b) calls the believers c) does the work in each one So of what use is man-made claim of "us being the only right ones" If GOD says they're not "the" right ones--for us--(our group)--then....nothing in the world is going to make them right (and acceptable) in GOD'S eyes...to be one of 'us"... They may belong elsewhere.... Should that matter to us??? (As in: do we have to call them "false" and "wrong-spirited"...just because they are not one of 'us" ) Christ didn't....and his very own words seem to say that they're on our part: (and, if they weren't, then Satan would be divided against himself--and his kingdom fall...) If I'm misreading those scriptures, then--tell me! And tell me what they're really saying...I'm willing to listen and change my stance.... Our very own ACTIONS....PROVE...our doctrine (in that area) is false. And that CHRIST speaks the truth!!! Do our workers not go and reap where other ministers and believers have sown? Do we not use the contributions (like the Bible: our hymns: concordance: and knowledge)that has come from those other churches (and other believers)--to preach the gospel: and to feed our believers? And worship with? Are they not "salt" and "light"--and helping us--in keeping the darkness (and evil) from overcoming this world?? "We" are not called to be "the evangelists" of this world. (If we were...we'd be doing it). But-- maybe others are. And then they go in: we go in: and others go in: all to reap what has been sown--with the Holy Spirit (perhaps) dividing--as He will--who belongs where... Thanks for the reminder that God's on the throne. Maybe now I can get off my Box...
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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 15:57:19 GMT -5
Nathan,
It's the LOVE found in our fellowship (for the workers, and the believers, and for God, and for truth) that keeps us in the church. We love all of what we have.
None of that--has to do with the rest of "the stuff".
With all the information that's out there, it'd surprise to find out that a fairly large number haven't investigated our beginnings: and come to the conclusion that we just started up 100 years ago: and now (inwardly) have accepted that fact.
So: why do they stay? Because of the love.
The rest--can fall away. And we'd all stay.
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 16:01:04 GMT -5
No. They stay because it is what they know. They know nothing else and so the fear of leaving is not as strong as the willingness to stay no matter their concerns over teachings or history.
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Post by do you not see on May 16, 2006 16:02:10 GMT -5
Nathan, It's the LOVE found in our fellowship (for the workers, and the believers, and for God, and for truth) that keeps us in the church. We love all of what we have. None of that--has to do with the rest of "the stuff". With all the information that's out there, it'd surprise to find out that a fairly large number haven't investigated our beginnings: and come to the conclusion that we just started up 100 years ago: and now (inwardly) have accepted that fact. So: why do they stay? Because of the love. The rest--can fall away. And we'd all stay. Do you not see. These are the signs of a C U L T! the cult aspects are what make people stay. The cult teachings has its hooks in them and it's to painful to rip them out.
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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 16:14:51 GMT -5
ppp,
Maybe (with some) you're right. But with others (like me) it'd be the love. (And I hate to see others leave...who'd love to stay...except...they reach the point where they can't).
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 16:17:37 GMT -5
ppp, Maybe (with some) you're right. But with others (like me) it'd be the love. (And I hate to see others leave...who'd love to stay...except...they reach the point where they can't). what do you love that would lead you to stay? I left because I could no longer stand the teachings. I miss the friends and workers Very Much. It is very upsetting that I do not spend as much time with them as I use to. They are my friends who I love and care for.
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Post by view on May 16, 2006 16:27:31 GMT -5
Nathan, It's the LOVE found in our fellowship (for the workers, and the believers, and for God, and for truth) that keeps us in the church. We love all of what we have. None of that--has to do with the rest of "the stuff". With all the information that's out there, it'd surprise to find out that a fairly large number haven't investigated our beginnings: and come to the conclusion that we just started up 100 years ago: and now (inwardly) have accepted that fact. So: why do they stay? Because of the love. The rest--can fall away. And we'd all stay. I agree it is the LOVE of God... what God has done for them and within their lives that make so many friends stay in the fellowship inspite of all the negative information on the Internet, anti-2x2s books are out there these days. I can remember when the Spirit of God dealt with me and touch my heart... I believe you can too. Remember, the fire purifies the God to bring the dross or the impurity to the top. God knows what He is doing. Everything is going as He has planned it. Your view is so narrow. Yes, everything he does is planned, but there is more to his kingdom then your little 2x2 box.
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