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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 16:47:38 GMT -5
Nathan, Good! You mean I'm supposed to be on here??? (What a relief! And...is it okay if I now get "off" ) Maybe it's all a test to see who really loves God..and who really loves something else: and all the lovers of truth are dong what is right in God's sight. So: what "dross" do you think is being burnt away? "ppp", What I love is all the fruit of the spirit that I see in everyone. And the Spirit of the meetings. And the sincerity. And the "oneness" of "the family". (All caused by the love: and the obedience to the Holy Spirit). Maybe all of what is happening (or all of what has happened) is to do away with anything not of the spirit--so that the Spirit can be seen more clearly).
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 17:38:08 GMT -5
Could you give a general example of such fruit?
the spirit OF the meetings?
Are you referring to the HOLY SPIRIT who is the third person in the trinity?
What exactly do you mean by the spirit OF the meetings?
You can find the same sort of feelings in the Mormon church and the Jehovah Witness church. But does that mean they are of God or preaching the word of God?
I think you need to rethink this one.
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Post by feeling on May 16, 2006 18:21:37 GMT -5
You can find the same sort of feelings in ..... church. But does that mean they are of God or preaching the word of God? I think you need to rethink this one. Yes, I also have seen your feelings ppp. But that doesn't mean you are right. You should rethink your feelings .
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 18:23:54 GMT -5
Yes, I also have seen your feelings ppp. But that doesn't mean you are right. You should rethink your feelings . huh? What are you talking about?
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Post by huhh on May 16, 2006 18:32:14 GMT -5
[quote author=ppp board=general You can find the same sort of feelings in ..... church. But does that mean they are of God or preaching the word of God? I think you need to rethink this one. , what you mean? rethink feelings?? How do you know my feelings??
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Post by dudu on May 16, 2006 18:37:34 GMT -5
rethink the idea that their feelings are an indicator of anything valuable.
The feeling of sincerity and oneness of the church family are the same feelings cult groups like the LDS church and the JW feel every day. So how does such feelings justify anything if groups such as the ones listed also have the same feelings?
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 18:38:47 GMT -5
is that what I said? I only know what's posted.
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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 18:46:19 GMT -5
ppp,
The fruit of the Spirit: love, patience, and forgiveness: forbearance (and the rest)--all present in my those in my church
The Spirit of the meeting: is the Holy Spirit's presence which shows in the spirit of others as they pray and give their testimony
The sincerity is as they go before God--in the meetings: and the Holy Spirit is what makes us love one another: and care for one another--and even forgive one another...in obedience to Him.
This is just the short list....
As to the other groups you mentioned--I don't know. I've never been there
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Post by huhh on May 16, 2006 18:46:29 GMT -5
rethink the idea that their feelings are an indicator of anything valuable. The feeling of sincerity and oneness of the church family are the same feelings cult groups like the LDS church and the JW feel every day. So how does such feelings justify anything if groups such as the ones listed also have the same feelings? You are only proving that your feelings are the same as those churches. Jesus's love is a different love than the false churches, so how can you say that the love of Jesus is the same as the false churches??
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 18:54:12 GMT -5
I have felt the same. But often these were only directed towards those who were following 2x2ism. Now there are some who direct such fruit towards everyone, no matter if they are in the fellowship or not. But in my experiences such fruit is only intended for those who follow 2x2ism.
Often we hear about the spirit of this or that. It is a misnomer to use such language in place of God the Holy Spirit who is the third part in the Holy Trinity.
I believe Dennis or someone else once wrote about “the spirit of the meetings” and basically said that such an idea was actually the feeling and comfort one felt during the service rather then God himself. I would tend to agree on some level.
I would ask that you pay close attention to people’s testimony and prayers after this. I wouldn’t ask for you to look for errors or things that would trip people up, but instead look for where the focus is. Is it on Jesus Christ alone? Or is it focused on how wonderful the 2x2 system is and how thankful they are to be a part of the belief system. I did this for a while before leaving and was shocked at where the focus really was.
Could you give an example of such forgiveness?
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Post by dudu on May 16, 2006 18:55:09 GMT -5
rethink the idea that their feelings are an indicator of anything valuable. The feeling of sincerity and oneness of the church family are the same feelings cult groups like the LDS church and the JW feel every day. So how does such feelings justify anything if groups such as the ones listed also have the same feelings? You are only proving that your feelings are the same as those churches. Jesus's love is a different love than the false churches, so how can you say that the love of Jesus is the same as the false churches?? Are we not all talking about false churches here? what is the difference between the false LDS church and the false Workers church?
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Post by as i c it on May 16, 2006 19:19:44 GMT -5
ppp,
Could I give an example of forgiveness? Sure! I have all the gentleness of a Clydsdale horse walking on eggs--and everyone has to forgive me...all the time.
Nothing speaks louder to me than forgiveness--because in the world--they (often) don't want to forgive.
Jesus said: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (And that's often the case....people offend without others even knowing it: or meaning to do so.) And then, of course, there are those who have deliberately done wrong and need forgiveness).
The world's attitude is to "want to" hold a grudge. The true Christians is to "want to" forgive--and be forgiven. And I constantly test the spirits of those in my meetings to make sure that they're "true Christians". And--they pass!!
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Post by ppp on May 16, 2006 19:34:12 GMT -5
I was looking for more of an example you would find in your meeting. This is what I think will happen. Over time you will still love your meeting and respect those in your meeting. But the truth you find out and what has been exposed about the fellowship will eat away at your comfort level with those in power over the friends. You will grow to have concerns and learn that not everything you had hoped for in the fellowship is true. I see you going down the same path happy has gone down in the last two or so years.
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 23:18:08 GMT -5
ok kkk - semantics. He established a ministry. I am reminded of George Washington, it was said "he defined the presidency by stepping into it."
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 16, 2006 23:25:28 GMT -5
Hi to Anyone. That's a good question. Don't know I think it is calculated from the number of time He went to Jerusalem. Here is another vague'ish aspect of the Christ. His ministry cannot have been too long, and couldn't have been too short. So, maybe three years is ok.
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Post by to Anyone on May 17, 2006 6:49:28 GMT -5
What about: Jesus 3.5 yr public ministry is measured by the No. of passovers mentioned in the gospels.
John 2:13 = Passover #1; John 5:1 = Passover #2; John 6:4 = Passover #3 (Jesus doesn't attend thsi one) John 11:55-56 & 12:1 = Passover #4
Jesus had already started his ministry (when he left Galiliee to go to Jordan to be baptized of John about 6 months previous to the first passover, which was held in Mar/Apr of each year.
Ever heard a worker mention this?
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Post by MildlyCurious on May 17, 2006 9:30:31 GMT -5
To "to anyone" Re number of passovers. The trouble is the gospels are not necessarily chronological or sequential, and bits and pieces may be out of order.
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Post by amica on May 20, 2006 5:14:18 GMT -5
:-/Im one of those ex workers from Australia..........I could tell you a few stories. Ive been on both sides of the fence. I tell you one hasn't lived until thay have experienced the inside of a workers life. "I tell you"
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Post by ozelaine on May 20, 2006 8:23:35 GMT -5
Interesting that although there seems so much emphasis on the form of ministry there is very little focus on the Gospel message that the ministers proclaim.
Even if an angel preaches, it could be a wrong Gospel Paul warns us. Doesn't this indicate that discerning what Gospel is preached is far more important than the messengers credentials?
I won't listen to anyone because of their credentials but I will listen to anyone who preaches the true Jesus.
2X2 ministers might be going 2 and 2 but their Gospel is far from being true.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on May 20, 2006 13:59:59 GMT -5
To "to anyone" Re number of passovers. The trouble is the gospels are not necessarily chronological or sequential, and bits and pieces may be out of order. One theory is the gospels of Mathhew, Mark, and Luke are set up in a one year time frame. This would coincide with worship service in a one year's time. Apparently John's gospel is the only one that indicates a longer time period.
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Walter
Junior Member
Posts: 108
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Post by Walter on May 20, 2006 15:10:26 GMT -5
To Clydsdale ppp,Could I give an example of forgiveness? Sure! I have all the gentleness of a Clydsdale horse walking on eggs--and everyone has to forgive me...all the time. Nothing speaks louder to me than forgiveness--because in the world--they (often) don't want to forgive Jesus said: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (And that's often the case....people offend without others even knowing it: or meaning to do so.) And then, of course, there are those who have deliberately done wrong and need forgiveness). The world's attitude is to "want to" hold a grudge. The true Christians is to "want to" forgive--and be forgiven. And I constantly test the spirits of those in my meetings to make sure that they're "true Christians". And--they pass!! Nothing speaks louder to me than forgiveness--because in the world--they (often) don't want to forgive.So are you saying unforgiving workers are of the World ?? The true Christians is to "want to" forgive--and be forgiven.And when they don"t there not Christians?? And I constantly test the spirits of those in my meetings to make sure that they're "true Christians". and--they pass!!Please explain HOW you do this test and do you use this same test on the workers?.
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Post by wanting to learn on May 20, 2006 15:13:37 GMT -5
"I won't listen to anyone because of their credentials but I will listen to anyone who preaches the true Jesus. "
How can I tell if someone is preaching the "true Jesus". I hear so much and its so variable.
I can't rely on man to tell me if what i hear is the "true Jesus" as they all claim they are true.
Its not possible for a human to discriminate it seems.
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Post by guesty on May 20, 2006 19:15:34 GMT -5
Somebody "tests" the spirits of other people? That has got to be a joke.
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Post by as i c it on May 20, 2006 19:40:47 GMT -5
guesty,
It was!!! (in a sense). I don't actually have an agenda to test anyone's spirit...but sometimes, without trying to, I can do things which others could take offence to (if they wanted to). And since they don't take offence, or hold things against me, they "pass".
Walter,
You ask tough questions. I said I was a clydsdale--which means I only have big hooves--not a big brain!!
So: let's ask Linda those questions. She's balanced in nature and scripture...and we should get a very fair and impartial answer from her.
As to testing the workers: I think I just have a natural ability to test everyone I come into contact with. I mean, I don't even have to try...
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Post by as i c it on May 20, 2006 21:09:47 GMT -5
Walter,
Christians are told to forgive. It's not an option. It's a command. Failure to do so doesn't bring just one sin with it--it brings all kinds of sin with it....and all of those sins fall into the category of hate and evil. And disobedience to God. And REFUSAL to submit unto Him.
So if a worker chooses not to forgive, then they have chosen to not submit their will to what they know is God's: and have willingly chosen to be disobedient to Him. Whereas, "the world" doesn't even think of God...doesn't have the Holy Spirit to urge him unto obedience: soooo... No. The worker would not be of the world.
If they don't want to forgive and be forgiven, then can still be Christians....just not obedient ones...in that area, anyways...and at that point in time
The test is really more like leaving myself open to where if they wanted to judge me, they could. More like an attitude of accepting me as I am, faults and all.
I was thinking more along the line of two Christians having a misunderstanding when I wrote about the forgiveness area. If the two are true Christians, then both will want to submit to God and do what they know is right in God's eyes. Therefore, both will be more willing to extend and accept reasonableness to each other--so that there might be peace between them.
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Post by amica on May 21, 2006 3:42:37 GMT -5
:'(Thats right a true christian is someone that lives it. Truth is truth whether we believe it or not. It all comes down to being more like Christ forgiving,loving,caring and giving time to those around us. Unfortuantly there are those that don't know what it is to "live" let alone "forgive" and the narrow minded people are those that are set in their ways and think that "the way " is the only way. I look at "the way" as the way with Jesus not a religion,cult or some 2x2 religion. There are those that misinterprut the meaning of the way............as being the only way the truth, the friends the ministry. There has to be a ministry and a following but can't we see that it has to line up with Jesus not some tradition thts been formed by men not Jesus!!
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Post by amica on May 21, 2006 3:46:21 GMT -5
:'(Thats right a true Christian is someone that lives it. Truth is truth whether we believe it or not. It all comes down to being more like Christ forgiving,loving,caring and giving time to those around us. Unfortunately there are those that don't know what it is to "live" let alone "forgive" and the narrow minded people are those that are set in their ways and think that "the way " is the only way. I look at "the way" as the way with Jesus not a religion,cult or some 2x2 religion. There are those that misinterpret the meaning of the way............as being the only way the truth, the friends the ministry. There has to be a ministry and a following but can't we see that it has to line up with Jesus not some tradition thats been formed by men not Jesus!!
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Post by amica on May 21, 2006 3:47:04 GMT -5
:'(Thats right a true Christian is someone that lives it. Truth is truth whether we believe it or not. It all comes down to being more like Christ forgiving,loving,caring and giving time to those around us. Unfortunately there are those that don't know what it is to "live" let alone "forgive" and the narrow minded people are those that are set in their ways and think that "the way " is the only way. I look at "the way" as the way with Jesus not a religion,cult or some 2x2 religion. There are those that misinterpret the meaning of the way............as being the only way the truth, the friends the ministry. There has to be a ministry and a following but can't we see that it has to line up with Jesus not some tradition thats been formed by man not Jesus!!
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