Spanking

[Bert Rodgers]

Alternative said:

Perhaps an alternative you would fine attractive would be putting your thoughts down in a civil manner and defenting your point of view with some concrete data rather than belittling others in an attempt to make your point.

I am not sure we know what the motive for the post was.

BR

[Area 51]

raok said:

not said:

There is nothing subjective about this. Spanking is child abuse. It's where our society gets its first taste of violence thinking its acceptable, normal, right, even good because it is equated to love by you sick child-abusing bastards. Spanking is child abuse and this is the final word. You can't argue with cold hard facts.

I am guessing that posts like this (and the ones following) will be posted at some point to demonstrate how anti-spanking people posting here call spanking child abuse.

All of the words will be pulled out and used to demonstrate the attitude of thye anti-spanking posters.

If nothing else, it is probably a good way to kill discussion when you have nothing to offer.

Have you been hitten' the hooch again?

Sounds like you're havin' another one o' yer black helicopter moments.

Sincerely,
Elvis Presley

[oh yeah]

raok said:

caithleen said:

never mind the child spanking issue ... what about all those keyboards getting a right pounding ...

Anyone want to venture an informed opinion/link on whether or not boy- and girl-children respond differently to spanking ?

/c
[who survived The Storm. The weather one, that is ;D]

As it turns out, males are spanked more than females.

There was a study that suggested females who had been spanked by males as young girls were more accepting, in later life, of abuse from other males in their lives.

Sorry - I can't recall or find the reference.

How convenient

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

oh said:

raok said:

As it turns out, males are spanked more than females.

There was a study that suggested females who had been spanked by males as young girls were more accepting, in later life, of abuse from other males in their lives.

Sorry - I can't recall or find the reference.

How convenient

www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive

Sorry about the delay. The convenience was that I could post the information in a timely manner and then provide the reference.

[Stop Wasting Your Time]

Here's a novel concept.

How about we all raise our children as best we can and stop trying to impose our methods on other people.

Spanking children is an ancient practice as is choosing to refrain from it. The human race has not descended into chaos as a result of either. Neither is 100% successful. Neither is 100% without side-effect. People aren't perfect and neither are their practices.

Getting into the business of telling a large group of people how to and how not to raise their children is asking for disaster. Now this may run contrary to the Utopian fantasies and totalitarian dreams of some here, but they will just have to get over it.

Not everyone believes in the importance of freedom, but I do. Freedom is like anything else involving humans, it is not perfect. So let's stop trying to micro-manage the lives of others and let's put our precious time and resources to use on better, more nobler causes.

Here's one suggestion: www.missingkids.com

[calm now]

bertrodgers said:

I am not sure we know what the motive for the post was.

Yes I was a bit emotional but what other kind of response would you expect to someone's gleeful support of abusing children? I'm not like some of the sickos here who celebrate when a child is beaten by the people that say they love them.

[ursick]

Stop said:

Here's a novel concept.

How about we all raise our children as best we can and stop trying to impose our methods on other people.

Spanking children is an ancient practice as is choosing to refrain from it. The human race has not descended into chaos as a result of either. Neither is 100% successful. Neither is 100% without side-effect. People aren't perfect and neither are their practices.

Getting into the business of telling a large group of people how to and how not to raise their children is asking for disaster. Now this may run contrary to the Utopian fantasies and totalitarian dreams of some here, but they will just have to get over it.

Not everyone believes in the importance of freedom, but I do. Freedom is like anything else involving humans, it is not perfect. So let's stop trying to micro-manage the lives of others and let's put our precious time and resources to use on better, more nobler causes.

Here's one suggestion: www.missingkids.com

Taking focus away from children being abused you are just sick.

Rot in hell you nasty bastard

[setting the record straight]

raok said:

{...whining, crying, presumptuous drivel cut...}

I have read the study you referenced, despite your contrary conclusion. You are either seeing things in the study that are not there or you are not understanding the objectivity and irreproachable scientific method I am looking for in a study of such importance and far-reaching implications. You could re-read my post, but I doubt you'll see anything there you missed the first time through. You can whine and cry all you want about how I just don't get it and how I'm not reading what I don't want to see. I could say the same about you but its already understood so I'm not going to waste my time. It is simple fact that you like the studies that back up your point of view. This is convenient for you. I see them as junk science. Careful objective examination identifies them for what they are: garbage. For the record, and for your amusement most likely, I would like to state that I am actually against spanking; call it a gut thing; but would like to see some reasonable, sound, scientific evidence to back up my gut feelings.

[Please seek help]

To the loud mouthed, foul mouthed, whiner condemning frequently and condemning often all spanking parents as child abusers:

PLEASE GET PSYCHIATRIC HELP!

[to nut case]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

I think spanking is a matter of choice and no parent should give in to loud mouthed complainers who want to impose their will on other parents.

[go ahead]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

I dare you.

(sorry, I can't help picking on the mentally infirm) ;D

[OR]

raok said:

I am guessing that posts like this (and the ones following) will be posted at some point to demonstrate how anti-spanking people posting here call spanking child abuse.

You see I'm betting that NutJob (my name for him/her) was spanked as a child, possibly severly abused, and being vocal about it here is unwittingly demonstrating just what spanking, and quite possibly abuse, does to children when they reach adulthood.

[cute]

caithleen said:

never mind the child spanking issue ... what about all those keyboards getting a right pounding ...

LOL

[possibility]

bertrodgers said:

Alternative said:

Perhaps an alternative you would fine attractive would be putting your thoughts down in a civil manner and defenting your point of view with some concrete data rather than belittling others in an attempt to make your point.

I am not sure we know what the motive for the post was.

BR

Forgot his meds?

[funny]

Area said:

raok said:

I am guessing that posts like this (and the ones following) will be posted at some point to demonstrate how anti-spanking people posting here call spanking child abuse.

All of the words will be pulled out and used to demonstrate the attitude of thye anti-spanking posters.

If nothing else, it is probably a good way to kill discussion when you have nothing to offer.

Have you been hitten' the hooch again?

Sounds like you're havin' another one o' yer black helicopter moments.

Sincerely,
Elvis Presley

LOL

[four out of ten]

raok said:

www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive

Interesting article, though it's little more than an opinion piece. I would have preferred it be based a little more on science and a little less on subjective and circumstantial evidence.

[Thank you]

Stop said:

Here's a novel concept.

How about we all raise our children as best we can and stop trying to impose our methods on other people.

Spanking children is an ancient practice as is choosing to refrain from it. The human race has not descended into chaos as a result of either. Neither is 100% successful. Neither is 100% without side-effect. People aren't perfect and neither are their practices.

Getting into the business of telling a large group of people how to and how not to raise their children is asking for disaster. Now this may run contrary to the Utopian fantasies and totalitarian dreams of some here, but they will just have to get over it.

Not everyone believes in the importance of freedom, but I do. Freedom is like anything else involving humans, it is not perfect. So let's stop trying to micro-manage the lives of others and let's put our precious time and resources to use on better, more nobler causes.

Here's one suggestion: www.missingkids.com

Good advice!

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

four said:

raok said:

www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive

Interesting article, though it's little more than an opinion piece. I would have preferred it be based a little more on science and a little less on subjective and circumstantial evidence.

Did you read the papers that were referenced in the article?
The article was a summary of the data presented by a number of studies.
For example:

ihd.berkeley.edu/BaumrindPaper.pdf

Also:
Strassberg, Z., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S., & Bates, J.E. (1994). “Spanking in families and subsequent aggressive behavior toward peers by kindergarten students”. Development and Psychopathology, 6, 445-461.

All of these studies are based on data collection methods that provide as objective a view as a subject like this can yield.

[Random Acts 0f Kindness]

setting said:

raok said:

{...whining, crying, presumptuous drivel cut...}

I like the condescension - adds so much to the discussion.

I have read the study you referenced, despite your contrary conclusion. You are either seeing things in the study that are not there or you are not understanding the objectivity and irreproachable scientific method I am looking for in a study of such importance and far-reaching implications.

I do understand what you are looking for but without taking groups of children and putting them in secure settings with 24 hour surveillance and surrogate parents to administer the spankings according to the very narrow set of parameters you suggested I don't think you are going to get it.

You can whine and cry all you want about how I just don't get it and how I'm not reading what I don't want to see.

Well, let's go back and look at two things you said were missing and see if we can sort this out.

You claim:

They define spanking too broadly; hitting a child in the head with a fist and hitting a child with an open palm on a clothed but are two different things to most spanking parents, but to the administrators in charge of putting these studies together, they are one and the same.

Yet in the notes section of the article this is discussed in detail, outlining exactly what spanking was. It specifically excludes hitting with objects and states that probably most frequent form is slapping a child's hand for touching something. So, in light of the explanation in the study, your statement above is false.

You also claimed:

And second, they fail to closely scrutinize where they gather their data. The man who bloodies his child says it's "spanking" so they take his data. The man who uses an open palm on the child's clothed but says it's "spanking" so they take his data. Now why aren't the study administrators more careful about where their data comes from? Well, sometimes they just don't know. Other times, maybe they have an agenda that is better served if their own data is tainted.

Yet in the study on page 62 there is a section titled Method (as there is in most research papers) that explains where the data was obtained as well as pointing out where some of the weak points in the method.

As I stated earlier, the purpose of the study is to look at spanking as it is done in the population at large and not according to the narrow definition you wish to look at and consider to be the norm.

I could say the same about you but its already understood so I'm not going to waste my time. It is simple fact that you like the studies that back up your point of view.

I would look at any study that you wish that points out the benefits of spanking and the long term health benefits.

This is convenient for you. I see them as junk science. Careful objective examination identifies them for what they are: garbage.

However after looking again at the reasons you cave for considering this study to be flawed reveal that you were in error. Spanking was well defined and the source was not the people who were doing the spanking but the people who were spanked.

For the record, and for your amusement most likely, I would like to state that I am actually against spanking; call it a gut thing; but would like to see some reasonable, sound, scientific evidence to back up my gut feelings.

And you have yet to point out the reasons why this study does not meet these criteria given that we cannot treat people like lab rats and test with 100% control.

[to Random Acts of Kindness]

Earlier, I said: You are either seeing things in the study that are not there or you are not understanding the objectivity and irreproachable scientific method I am looking for in a study of such importance and far-reaching implications.

Your reply has shed some light on your position and I can now say: You are not understanding the objectivity and irreproachable scientific method I am looking for in a study of such importance and far-reaching implications.

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

Every scientist has their standard when it comes to what they demand from a study in terms of reliability. Some demand more than others. You are correct in that no study is 100% perfect but I trust you know that some studies come much closer to 100% than others. As it just so happens, I have higher expectations than you. Don't feel bad; I work with some who have higher expectations than I and I know how frustrating it can be to convince them of anything. Believe it or not, I know how you feel.

[davinci]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

he wishes he could do this being but a guest

[to davinci]

davinci, how could

[to davinci]

davinci, how could

[to davinci]

(Sorry about the screwed up posts)

davinci, how could anyone do it (guest or not)?

I think he's just blowing smoke.

[Taunt]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

Spanking can be an effective tool in raising children.

[Taunt]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

Spanking is a matter of parental choice.

[Taunt]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

To equate spanking with child abuse is to diminish the seriousness of real child abuse.

[Taunt]

people said:

Attention:

If the flagrant, shameless, sadistic and sickening bragging regarding the abuse of children continues in this thread, I will shut it down and report all posters IP's to the appropriate authorities.

Well, we're waiting.