time
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Post by time on Apr 24, 2006 10:04:02 GMT -5
I find it interesting by all the differences that I see in Truth because of were people live. For instance the workers, so many here find them distant and secretive. My experience is that they have been friendly and open. I am not in Truth but my best friend of 35 years has been for 16 years and not once have the workers told him that he should discontinue our friendship. I have gone to meetings, preps and to conventions on and off for many years and have always been welcomed, with no pressure to join. I am from Wisconsin so for me I find Truth vary friendly as well as all the people I have met.
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Post by Onlooker on Apr 24, 2006 10:21:02 GMT -5
You have to remember though, that many posts here are written by people who have left for various reasons.
They will naturally not show the 2x2s in a good light. That doesn't brand them bitter, as some do, but lets be realistic, they're not going to say "they are a great bunch, but I left".
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Post by but I left on Apr 24, 2006 15:54:03 GMT -5
The Friends are a great bunch (as a whole), but I left.....I think a lot of people who were former members of the F&W sect would say the same thing. In fact, many have posted here that they still have a great Love for the Friends.
One of the "various reasons" for leaving a "great bunch of people" is that by staying, we would be saying that we agree with the claims of the Leadership. This would be an intolerable hypocrisy.
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Post by as i c it on Apr 24, 2006 18:55:07 GMT -5
but I left,
Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place.
(One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.)
If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth---
the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life.
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Post by Bryantulip on Apr 24, 2006 19:02:07 GMT -5
OH? The Friends and Workers are a great bunch of people... and I left the fellowship...  |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 24, 2006 20:27:15 GMT -5
I should have added "sad" to my above statement...because I find it sad what took place...
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Post by Ileft2 on Apr 24, 2006 21:57:36 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. You just nailed it-it is all about works and good people and almost never about Christ! "All good things come from above..."Its not in man to direct his steps aright"and self righteous garbage that unfairly burdens people with the commandments of men instead of acknowledging and lifting up the God who made them. I'm thankful to be free of that. I notice,especially after attending the potluck this past weekend,that the "good honest people" are still the same good,honest people they were before they left.Now they are happy,free,good honest people. |
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Post by Ileft2 on Apr 24, 2006 22:01:12 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. You just nailed it-it is all about works and good people and almost never about Christ! Remember-"All good things come from above..."Its not in man to direct his steps aright"Those good traits are from God but the credit is given to people(workers)and turned into self righteous garbage that unfairly burdens people with the commandments of men instead of acknowledging and lifting up the God who made them. I'm thankful to be free of that. I notice,especially after attending the potluck this past weekend,that the "good honest people" are still the same good,honest people they were before they left.Now they are happy,free,good honest people. |
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Post by Ileft2 on Apr 24, 2006 22:03:35 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. You just nailed it-it is all about works and good people and almost never about Christ! "All good things come from above..."Its not in man to direct his steps aright"and self righteous garbage that unfairly burdens people with the commandments of men instead of acknowledging and lifting up the God who made them. I'm thankful to be free of that. I notice,especially after attending the potluck this past weekend,that the "good honest people" are still the same good,honest people they were before they left.Now they are happy,free,good honest people. Sorry for the duplicte post- I meant to post the second one after editing and I goofed.  |
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Post by Gene on Apr 24, 2006 22:05:21 GMT -5
You just nailed it-it is all about works and good people and almost never about Christ! "All good things come from above..."Its not in man to direct his steps aright"and self righteous garbage that unfairly burdens people with the commandments of men instead of acknowledging and lifting up the God who made them. I'm thankful to be free of that. I notice,especially after attending the potluck this past weekend,that the "good honest people" are still the same good,honest people they were before they left.Now they are happy,free,good honest people. Sorry for the duplicte post- I meant to post the second one after editing and I goofed. No problem, but ah, the bliss of registration -- it allows you to go back and modify and even DELETE your own posts! |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 24, 2006 23:17:43 GMT -5
Ileft2,
I'm glad you enjoyed the potluck--with friends--who are now your friends because of the fellowship. Maybe you can give the workers a bit (just a wee bit) of credit for teaching (preaching) and....somehow....providing "the right spirit" that enabled the Holy Spirit to
create a love for others....that made your friendship possible.
Or did the Holy Spirit just come into your life after you left???
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Post by spiderman on Apr 25, 2006 7:02:39 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. As I see it, they didn't start with the truth. There was a lot of clergy bashing from the beginning and it got worse from there. They intermingle truth with fiction and the friends then join hand in hand and agree. Then at some point they agreed to cover up Irvine, Kerr, Cooney etc and many many workers down through the decades were complicit. Like you said, some are innocent, and I do give them credit for all the good teaching I've received. Here's my problem though. If some do have the Holy Spirit, they're are not the only ones, but that is their claim and that's why we had to leave. We do still love the friends and workers, how could we not? But being free to seek and worship the God of the bible and Jesus his Son, and asking the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and make us new, without the bondage and trappings of the commandments of men, is worth the leaving. |
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 25, 2006 8:19:31 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. As I see it, they didn't start with the truth. There was a lot of clergy bashing from the beginning and it got worse from there. They intermingle truth with fiction and the friends then join hand in hand and agree. Like you said, some are innocent, and I do give them credit for all the good teaching I've received. Here's my problem though. If some do have the Holy Spirit, they're are not the only ones, but that is their claim and that's why we had to leave. We do still love the friends and workers, how could we not? But being free to seek and worship the God of the bible and Jesus his Son, and asking the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and make us new, without the bondage and trappings of the commandments of men, is worth the leaving. I doubt any of the workers today preach like Ed Cooney? Look at all the newspaper articles...!! |
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Post by Capital question on Apr 25, 2006 10:07:14 GMT -5
I doubt any of the workers today preach like Ed Cooney? Look at all the newspaper articles...!! Just wondering why you don't use a capital W when you write about the Workers. You know that the word "Worker" is a title when used is this sense...... |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 25, 2006 15:08:18 GMT -5
Hellow Spiderman! Good to see you're back (and your front) from the pictures taken during your potluck.!!
First: I understand why you left. The Holy Spirit works...and there you are ("guilty"--with knowledge--and "no choice" left) IF you want peace--between yourself and God. (And seeing as we're talking about your soul and eternity...ya gotta do what ya gotta do...)
I...ended up "here" for the same reason....
I've grieved over the entire situation . Past/present/and that yet to come...because that "ball of destruction"...once it started a-rolling...affected everyone it has come into contact with. And...it's still a-rolling...and going to affect more...
I've been enraged/and pained...after overdosing on all the effects (past/present/future--which I know, "will" come..."has to" come...because of all the knowledge out there): and I've said some terrible/unfair/ completely wrong things--which I now regret--because I see us ALL as victims---
I wanted "it" to stop.
Well, I've learned a few things: and that no matter who we are (or where we are) the whole lot of us have a whole lot more in common because of "this thing".!
1. Each individual who came to knowledge (about whatever) has had to deal with it--somehow.
2. Each of us--increased our load of sin. We all judged...right/wrong...and did "things" (to cope with it...somehow)
And if (somehow) a whole "List of Sins" was laid out before all of us (worker/believer/and ex): and we were all told to pick up our load (for every sin/wrong thing said/done/or thought) because of the effect its had on us...ALL of us would(no doubt) end up having to take a fairly large load home.
3. So--we all need to forgive and be forgiven.
The workers (of today) were not THE CAUSE of all of it . They just ended up having to cope with it--like us. And...ALL the flack (with rightfully belongs to the past "others") has been flack that they've had to endure--and have had to answer to...
Yes...I know...wrong has been done...(but..it's been done by ALL).
So: I give them full credit for even being around today--and "taking it".
(Hmmm...do you think my posting belongs on this thread???)
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Post by but on Apr 25, 2006 16:20:50 GMT -5
but I left, Ironic, isn't it??!! THEY are the ones who taught us to be honest: and want honesty: in our relationship with God --and within our church: and then--it was that "need" for honesty that...caused the problems that took place. (One has to give them credit for all the right that they did. And it's a shame that a decision made before their time, and when most of them had absolutely nothing to do with that decision--ended up affecting everyone's life as it did.) If only the "original decision-makers" had stuck to the truth--- the "reality" of what was...AS it was....none of this would have happened...or affected anyone's life. but what difference does it make? is ones salvation dependent on knowing? |
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Post by It makes a difference on Apr 25, 2006 16:38:14 GMT -5
but what difference does it make? is ones salvation dependent on knowing? The fact is, we now know. Why belong to a group who's Leaders have made a policy of deception over decades? How does a "Friend" explain to interested "outsiders" that many in the older generation are laboring under a delusion. Furthermore, the Workers perpetuated the myth that the oldsters still believe. Salvation is not dependent on membership in a specific group. I cannot belong to a group who's leaders deceived my grandparents and parents and then me. If the Workers can't tell the truth, where do they get off calling themselves "The Truth"? |
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Post by disguested on Apr 25, 2006 17:05:01 GMT -5
Ileft2, I'm glad you enjoyed the potluck--with friends--who are now your friends because of the fellowship. Maybe you can give the workers a bit (just a wee bit) of credit for teaching (preaching) and....somehow....providing "the right spirit" that enabled the Holy Spirit to create a love for others....that made your friendship possible. Or did the Holy Spirit just come into your life after you left??? The Holy Spirit was working in me BEFORE I came to meeting. The workers do not control the workings of the Spirit. I give full credit to my parents for teaching me about unconditional love, respect and God, living it before me. (Don't even get me started about the scandalous, dishonest behavior committed by workers and current 2 x 2's.) These wonderful people at the potluck happened to be in the same physical spot as I had been, same as other wonderful people that I know-who by the way, never have gone to meeting and I count among my friends. We happened to meet some of these at Malcom or Boyden instead of la leche, college or Starbucks. |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 25, 2006 18:22:10 GMT -5
Okay "disguested"  , I'm not out to put down those at the potluck--or anyone else.--for any reason. I was simply saying that even if there was a truckload of "wrong" in (or with) the fellowship, there must have been "something" good take place. And--I see it did. You "just happened" to end up at Malcom or Boyden (the same physical spot) at the same time: and on the same days: and "just happened" to have "something' in common with those you met... Well, good. I'm glad you all met. I "know" a few of those individuals through the net...(and, don't tell anyone...in your camp or mine...but...I kinda like them too--even if we don't agree on everything) |
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Post by bowhunter on Apr 25, 2006 19:50:30 GMT -5
Ileft2, I'm glad you enjoyed the potluck--with friends--who are now your friends because of the fellowship. Maybe you can give the workers a bit (just a wee bit) of credit for teaching (preaching) and....somehow....providing "the right spirit" that enabled the Holy Spirit to create a love for others....that made your friendship possible. Or did the Holy Spirit just come into your life after you left??? The Holy Spirit entered me when I recieved Jesus at age 14.The 2x2 system hindered proper growth for many years.My parents and grandparents were the biggest influence in my learning to love,behave, etc .About 8 years ago,He(Holy Spirit) started stirring me to see that much of what I had learnened in the System was false and damaging.He gently led me and my wife to a place where we could find freedom in His grace. Yes,I met many good people while in the system.I have and continue to meet more since leaving.God has planted many good people in my life. I can credit a few workers for some enlightening tidbits over the years-but I can also credit certain of the Friends,my Methodist grandmother and my mother who loved God. Why does a worker,who is supposed to be emulating Christ (humility,no guile,no pride) seek for accolades? Just curious. Ileft2 aka Bowhunter  |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 25, 2006 21:11:05 GMT -5
Bowhunter,
I'm having difficulty answering your question--because I can't think of any worker that I've known--or know--who I'd classify as "seeking accolades". The ones I've met have had a sincere care for our souls: are wonderful individuals: and deserve our love (and respect)--not only because they are ministers (and therefore, deserving the same respect and love you'd give any minister)--but--also--because that's what they also give unto us.
I know...this sounds like I'm a "parrot"....but...trust me...I've never been a "worker worshipper". And while I admit that I've said some horrible things (due to what I've read on the net--and in REACTION to those things) --I'd defend any of the ones I know--and I'd be honest in my defence--because they'd deserve it.
I'm not dismissing your experience...I just can't relate to it..(Sorry)
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Post by that on Apr 25, 2006 21:24:54 GMT -5
but what difference does it make? is ones salvation dependent on knowing? The fact is, we now know. Why belong to a group who's Leaders have made a policy of deception over decades? How does a "Friend" explain to interested "outsiders" that many in the older generation are laboring under a delusion. Furthermore, the Workers perpetuated the myth that the oldsters still believe. Salvation is not dependent on membership in a specific group. I cannot belong to a group who's leaders deceived my grandparents and parents and then me. If the Workers can't tell the truth, where do they get off calling themselves "The Truth"? that is not what I asaked  |
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Post by sme on Apr 25, 2006 21:33:00 GMT -5
Granted, I did not spend fifty years in the work, but I can tell you there are worker worshippers out there. It does not take long to note the worker worshippers or brown-nosers (the two are not always the same). There are those workers who seek attention and special notice and there are those who do not. There are those 'peasants' who worship the ground workers tread upon and there are those folks who do not.
It is utterly disgusting to go to someone's house expecting to have a day of peace and solitude, but be idolized. It is sickening to hear people quote a worker word for word instead of exclaiming how God spoke to them or how the Holy Spirit led them. If a worker is humble, he does not grandstand. Many do.
My observations,
Hawk
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Post by sme on Apr 25, 2006 21:55:58 GMT -5
Worker is not capitalized in the Middle of a Sentence any more than any of these Words should be capitalized. 'Worker' is an identifier, not a proper noun. The son of Joe is not the same as the Son of David. You know immediately who I am referring to when I say Son of David. But it would not be proper to type 'the Worker Joe' in a sentence unless you worship the worker whose name is Joe. Your brother Sam is not capitalized, except for his proper name, unless you are Mormon. When you refer to your mom or dad, it is capitalized if used as a name - my Mom is married to my Dad (Judy is married to Jose). But 'parents' is not capitalized at any time.
Putting 'worker' in a sentence is similar to minister, preacher, dude in a white robe, etc. None of them is capitalized. Furthermore, when a worker is mentioned in a funeral leaflet, he is referred to as 'Minister Hank Williams' or 'Mr. Hank Williams.' I have never seen 'Worker Hank Williams' in type on anything professional. The term 'worker' is used by innies as a reference or identification tool, not a name. Worker is not capitalized grammatically.
Hawk
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Me
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Post by Me on Apr 25, 2006 22:08:49 GMT -5
Granted, I did not spend fifty years in the work, but I can tell you there are worker worshippers out there. It does not take long to note the worker worshippers or brown-nosers (the two are not always the same). There are those workers who seek attention and special notice and there are those who do not. There are those 'peasants' who worship the ground workers tread upon and there are those folks who do not. It is utterly disgusting to go to someone's house expecting to have a day of peace and solitude, but be idolized. It is sickening to hear people quote a worker word for word instead of exclaiming how God spoke to them or how the Holy Spirit led them. If a worker is humble, he does not grandstand. Many do. My observations, Hawk I'm sorry but i have not seen what you state. and again is your or my salvation dependent on those things. |
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Post by sme on Apr 25, 2006 22:41:59 GMT -5
Whether you have seen it or not makes no difference - I have. There is no need to be sorry.
Is your second statement supposed to be a question? If so, I am simply replying to above posts, not declaring matters of salvation. "Again"? I don't know what you are talking about.
(I have no idea why I'm replying to this post - I usually don't bother.)
Hawk
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Post by accolades on Apr 25, 2006 23:23:26 GMT -5
Bowhunter, I'm having difficulty answering your question--because I can't think of any worker that I've known--or know--who I'd classify as "seeking accolades". The ones I've met have had a sincere care for our souls: are wonderful individuals: and deserve our love (and respect)--not only because they are ministers (and therefore, deserving the same respect and love you'd give any minister)--but--also--because that's what they also give unto us. I know...this sounds like I'm a "parrot"....but...trust me...I've never been a "worker worshipper". And while I admit that I've said some horrible things (due to what I've read on the net--and in REACTION to those things) --I'd defend any of the ones I know--and I'd be honest in my defence--because they'd deserve it. I'm not dismissing your experience...I just can't relate to it..(Sorry) ******* I too am at a loss-you state-as per your quote above- "seeking accolades" and yet-read your post-quoted below Re: Difference by Region « Reply #10 on Yesterday at 12:17am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ileft2, I'm glad you enjoyed the potluck--with friends--who are now your friends because of the fellowship. Maybe you can give the workers a bit (just a wee bit) of credit for teaching (preaching) and....somehow....providing "the right spirit" that enabled the Holy Spirit to create a love for others....that made your friendship possible. You, as i c it, are trying to get accolades for the workers. |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 26, 2006 1:11:58 GMT -5
accolades,
My response to Bowhunter was honest. I really can't think of any workers who are in the work because they're looking for accolades.
But with my response to him in the other post (Ileft2 one) I was trying to get some accolades
(acknowledgement) that some good had taken place because of the fellowship and workers.
(I haven't re-read what was posted before the post that you've quoted--but I think it was pretty negative...and thought a little positive might balance the thread out..)
The workers (that I know) aren't evil and they're not out to do evil. Wrongs (in the past) may have been done: doctrinal issues may prove frustrating--but--on an individual basis (and simply as individuals)...they deserve respect and appreciation.
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