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Post by mister on Aug 6, 2006 15:23:54 GMT -5
Few workers can really excite a crowd. Leslie White and a few others are worth listening to but most will put you to sleep. They lack public speaking skills. Boring, dull and saying the same old thing meeting after meeting. Why put themselves and others through this?
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Post by Roy on Aug 6, 2006 16:12:29 GMT -5
The Gospel is to be spoken as a Living Witness. It's the message not the messenger that counts! Would you prefer a digitized speach? Perhaps what we all really need is relevant messages for todays situations.
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Post by seekingtruth on Aug 6, 2006 18:07:10 GMT -5
Who says that all those who teach of Jesus need public speaking skills? The most important thing is for them to have knowledge of what they're teaching, an overflowing heart, and to be totally sincere. The person who knows what they're talking about is comfortable talking about it. An overflowing heart just pours forth. Sincerity is visable. Seems to me that that is what's lacking. There are lots of people who aren't trained speakers but get them started on a topic they know, understand and love and they are most most interesting and informed.
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Post by just me on Aug 6, 2006 20:21:28 GMT -5
Quote "Who says that all those who teach of Jesus need public speaking skills? The most important thing is for them to have knowledge of what they're teaching, an overflowing heart, and to be totally sincere. The person who knows what they're talking about is comfortable talking about it. An overflowing heart just pours forth. Sincerity is visable. Seems to me that that is what's lacking. There are lots of people who aren't trained speakers but get them started on a topic they know, understand and love and they are most most interesting and informed. " end quote uh yea, THAT would pretty much BE the definition of public speaking skills most of the best speakers ARE NOT trained in this area, they are just talking about things they are excited about, AND knowledgable about. and to Roy, you are right, the message IS the most important part, BUT when the speaker puts you to sleep, did you really HEAR the message?
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Me
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Post by Me on Aug 6, 2006 20:41:30 GMT -5
Few workers can really excite a crowd. Leslie White and a few others are worth listening to but most will put you to sleep. They lack public speaking skills. Boring, dull and saying the same old thing meeting after meeting. Why put themselves and others through this? i have no trouble understanding what is what is being said whether they have great or no public speaking skills. i wonder what public speaking skills Peter, Luke, Mark,John etc had?
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Post by a believer on Aug 6, 2006 21:35:08 GMT -5
Few workers can really excite a crowd. Leslie White and a few others are worth listening to but most will put you to sleep. They lack public speaking skills. Boring, dull and saying the same old thing meeting after meeting. Why put themselves and others through this? i have no trouble understanding what is what is being said whether they have great or no public speaking skills. i wonder what public speaking skills Peter, Luke, Mark,John etc had? I am sure they had plenty. Jesus certainly had the crowds flocking to hear him and I am sure his speaking skills were not amiss as we do not see people flocking to hear the workers.
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Post by GuestS on Aug 6, 2006 21:52:28 GMT -5
"Few workers can really excite a crowd."
Boy, is that the understatement of the year! NO workers can really excite a crowd. They have NOTHING to share. Falsehoods can NEVER be exciting. And that's the problem....they are speaking to a "crowd" and not a "church" (body of believers). When they (the workers) refuse to attend any type of seminary or theological training how could they have any SKILLS? Most have never even been to college of any sort. Part of the problem lies in them not being able to speak from notes. They are expected to stand up there and WING it. That is NOT teaching!
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Post by Hi6 on Aug 8, 2006 7:22:00 GMT -5
I used to be embarassed when certain workers would preach funerals in our field. Especially ones where the deceased was well known in the community. The soft monotone voices..Crowd daydreaming. Come on...PREACH the gospel with enthusiasm!
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Post by Listening on Aug 8, 2006 8:53:01 GMT -5
Some workers are so captivating in their speaking that you could hear a pin drop in the meeting. These are not the majority, but some of them - you'd never find a more interesting, relevant and entertaining speaker anywhere.
This is because they are speaking from the heart, not some diatribe learned at a seminary, not some notes that are cobbled together from internet research, not some recycled sermon of someone else, no, what we hear is real, its life.
So, while some are the most boring, soporific speakers, some thers are the mostest, the best.
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Post by Brick on Aug 8, 2006 9:25:16 GMT -5
Amen. I often give thanks at conventions and such for the lives that have been lived that makes the words of those few the word of God. You can't really speak it if you don't live by it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2006 10:05:53 GMT -5
Amen. I often give thanks at conventions and such for the lives that have been lived that makes the words of those few the word of God. You can't really speak it if you don't live by it. This quote brings up again exclusivity of the 2 x 2's. Are you saying that the preachers others of us listen to don't live Godly lives?
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Post by REALLY on Aug 8, 2006 10:11:34 GMT -5
This is because they are speaking from the heart, not some diatribe learned at a seminary, not some notes that are cobbled together from internet research, not some recycled sermon of someone else, no, what we hear is real, its life. quote] You know not of what you speak. Have you ever heard Dale Spencer-repeat and repeat his stock sermons? This was discussed recently. Many of the workers have stock sermons-especially for when they go on convention rounds. You heard worker x speaking on this here, if you traveled you heard him speak the same sermon there and a few other places too. Don't you talk to this board about "recycled sermons". Let me tell you one more thing-I'd rather listen to many of the "worldly" pastors than sit one moment in a meeting led by Willis Propp, Jim Knipe and the likes of them.
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Post by Brick on Aug 8, 2006 10:15:56 GMT -5
This quote brings up again exclusivity of the 2 x 2's. Are you saying that the preachers others of us listen to don't live Godly lives? No. I usually listen to non-2X2 preachers in the car or on line, but I am still just as thankful. But we were talking specifically about workers in the 2X2 ministry, were we not?
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 8, 2006 10:37:47 GMT -5
Bill Clinton is a skillful public speaker, [and a skillful politician]. Is that good or bad?
Ministers do more than speak in public, thankfully.
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Post by Brick on Aug 8, 2006 10:44:10 GMT -5
One of the nicest, humblest, and most sincere workers that I know is a sincerely boring speaker. It isn't that he lacks conviction or knowledge, he just doesn't articulate them well. However, his out of meeting personality compensates for his lack of oratory ability. A true case of actions and spirit speaking louder than words.
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 8, 2006 10:45:41 GMT -5
One of the nicest, humblest, and most sincere workers that I know is a sincerely boring speaker. It isn't that he lacks conviction or knowledge, he just doesn't articulate them well. However, his out of meeting personality compensates for his lack of oratory ability. A true case of actions and spirit speaking louder than words. Amen! I like to think about Moses...also.
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Post by Brick on Aug 8, 2006 10:53:24 GMT -5
Have you ever heard Dale Spencer-repeat and repeat his stock sermons? I'll be hearing him in a couple of days. Wanna give me a preview?
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 8, 2006 13:39:34 GMT -5
We all have different talents. Some people are more comfortable and better equipped when it comes to public speaking. This goes for the workers too.
Some workers do better in one-on-one talks. Everyone has a different style, and a different strength.
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 8, 2006 14:52:52 GMT -5
"Boy, is that the understatement of the year! NO workers can really excite a crowd. They have NOTHING to share."
These statements preclude any credibility. Clearly to emphasis "NO", and "Nothing" means this person is a TROLL
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Post by hotdog on Aug 8, 2006 15:05:44 GMT -5
Dale loves to tell his testimony. How he was going to be a false preacher but his aunt insisted that he go to convention. He made "his choice" and offered for the work at his first convention. How he got a revelation that this is God's true way and the men in the front of the room are "God's true servants!"
Dennis Kinnan, Jerome Frandle, Dale Spencer, and Charles Steffen are good at recycling sermons.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 8, 2006 15:32:11 GMT -5
Well, I'm sure I "recycle" my testimony... but I'm just so thankful for what God has done for me!
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Post by Zorro on Aug 8, 2006 16:35:20 GMT -5
This is because they are speaking from the heart, not some diatribe learned at a seminary, not some notes that are cobbled together from internet research, not some recycled sermon of someone else, no, what we hear is real, its life.
This thread is very close to a "religous" version of "my dad's bigger than your dad". This comment clearly indicates someone has bought the company line, but I'll just politely call the company line a "stretch". So far, every single experience I've had since leaving has been extremely positive, the majority overwhelmingly powerful. I haven't heard anything that I disagreed with and have seen the gospel delivered very clearly, simply and relevantly. Once upon a time, I can hear myself saying exactly what was quoted above......I can't believe how I used to think that.....and how wrong I was.
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Post by Simple on Aug 8, 2006 18:30:04 GMT -5
Amen. I often give thanks at conventions and such for the lives that have been lived that makes the words of those few the word of God. You can't really speak it if you don't live by it. So have the workers reached a level of sustained closeness to God that other Christians have not attained? Why are they so blind to the work and glory of God in other Christians then? They have no peers, but they have sold you on themselves...............mission accomplished eh!! Why are the whited sepulchers (workers) bearing witness to themselves continually? So focused on the outer appearance and blind to the spiritual Truth? Ravenous wolves dressed as lambs, to fool the flesh of the unborn legions following [glow=red,2,300]them[/glow].
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 9, 2006 1:36:07 GMT -5
Zorro said ...
"I haven't heard anything that I disagreed with ..."
Sounds like "every one who agrees with me is right"
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Post by Zorro on Aug 9, 2006 7:37:19 GMT -5
Zorro said ...
"I haven't heard anything that I disagreed with ..."
Sounds like "every one who agrees with me is right"
That's a sad and shallow response, Eurp. Could it possibly mean anything else? Perhaps it means that the 2x2 notions that everything outside is false and there is no unity to be found anywhere but in the 2x2 fellowship.....is a myth? The fact is that there is widespread unity in the orthodox beliefs of the body of Christ. Everywhere I've been there is unity regarding Christ's deity, the Trinity, salvation by grace and faith alone, the atonement, etc. I understand that it's easier to take a personal swipe at me than consider the reality outside your personal experience, but hey....knock yourself out.
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Post by Brick on Aug 9, 2006 7:38:50 GMT -5
So have the workers reached a level of sustained closeness to God that other Christians have not attained? I suppose that one would have to possess perfect judgment and also the ability to assess the motive of all of their actions and thoughts to be able to make that determination. In my statement, I never made a comparison of workers to ANYONE ELSE. Nor did I extend my gratitude to God for the life of every worker. Let's have a bit less sarcasm and a little more reality, s'il vous plait.
Merci
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 9, 2006 8:10:24 GMT -5
Zorro said " Everywhere I've been there is unity regarding Christ's deity, the Trinity, salvation by grace and faith alone, the atonement, etc. "
That might be your experience, I can't deny it, but your experence cannot be extrapolated to become the experience that all would (or have) had. Incidently its not my experience. I've found some unity, and a lot of disunity on these doctrinal points.
and "I understand that it's easier to take a personal swipe at me than consider the reality outside your personal experience, but hey....knock yourself out."
Well, its OK for you to ignore the experience of others but not me?
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Post by Zorro on Aug 9, 2006 9:03:22 GMT -5
Zorro said " Everywhere I've been there is unity regarding Christ's deity, the Trinity, salvation by grace and faith alone, the atonement, etc. "
That might be your experience, I can't deny it, but your experence cannot be extrapolated to become the experience that all would (or have) had. Incidently its not my experience. I've found some unity, and a lot of disunity on these doctrinal points.
You are correct that as individuals we should not extrapolate our personal experiences to define those of the whole....and I haven't done that. You are the one that made the projection onto me personally.
"I understand that it's easier to take a personal swipe at me than consider the reality outside your personal experience, but hey....knock yourself out."
Well, its OK for you to ignore the experience of others but not me?
Nowhere have I discounted the experiences of anyone else. The fact is that you resorted to a personal swipe and now feel the need to defend yourself. I'd just encourage you to be a little more reflective.
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