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Post by my two cents on Aug 28, 2007 14:01:11 GMT -5
Kathy,
I think the publicity (due to the net) has ended the possibility of the past policy of simply sweeping the matter under the rug, and moving the worker to a new field.
Especially in this case, where the outside authorities have become involved. And where there's sure to be a newspaper article bringing public awareness, of any forthcoming conviction.
Such publicity will also create a greater awareness within those within our group--that sexual predators may, indeed, also be found lurking among us.
And esteemed worker or not...I'm sure believers will agree that such a crime must be properly dealt with--and done so in a fashion that is in accordance with our laws and justice system.
Furthermore, while we are taught to forgive others, I highly doubt anyone will want Tim (or accept Tim) as "their" worker--and allow him to be in their home, and around their children.
Plus everyone knows (by now) that true and complete rehab isn't possible for such offenders.
Therefore, Tim's days in the work are over. And it now falls upon those in leadership to take care of any of the sheep who may have been done any damage by him.
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Post by las logged out on Aug 28, 2007 15:13:13 GMT -5
Kathy, I think the publicity (due to the net) has ended the possibility of the past policy of simply sweeping the matter under the rug, and moving the worker to a new field. Especially in this case, where the outside authorities have become involved. And where there's sure to be a newspaper article bringing public awareness, of any forthcoming conviction. Such publicity will also create a greater awareness within those within our group--that sexual predators may, indeed, also be found lurking among us. And esteemed worker or not...I'm sure believers will agree that such a crime must be properly dealt with--and done so in a fashion that is in accordance with our laws and justice system. Furthermore, while we are taught to forgive others, I highly doubt anyone will want Tim (or accept Tim) as "their" worker--and allow him to be in their home, and around their children. Plus everyone knows (by now) that true and complete rehab isn't possible for such offenders. Therefore, Tim's days in the work are over. And it now falls upon those in leadership to take care of any of the sheep who may have been done any damage by him. Had no idea things were this bad in the truth |
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get your facts straight
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Post by get your facts straight on Aug 28, 2007 15:35:57 GMT -5
[/quote] I am sure you are aware that there is no comparison between homosexualility and pedophilia. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles. Also, homosexuality is not a crime in this country. Can't imagine how you got this confused. There is a real danger during situations like this that ignorance dominates. |
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Post by twitch on Aug 28, 2007 16:33:27 GMT -5
I see that there is a mix of hope and doubt expressed about how this episode will play out overall and within the 2x2 group. Very understandable.
I have just heard (on good authority- ok, a worker ) that there has been a decision (could be world wide?) made pretty recently that these sort of things must be handled openly in future. No hiding. This Minnesota case may well be the first one to be handled in this way.
Whether we are 2X2 or not, we should all be glad if that is the way it pans out.
My plea would also be if this happens let's be understanding if it is not handled totally smoothly on this first such occasion- there will be things to learn along the way. If it is handled a bit awkwardly it does not mean there must be something sinister going on - it could well be learning along the way by people who are new to this way of working.
My plea would be that the 2X2s be prepared to openly admit that these happenings have been major problems, have been very poorly handled in the past and the previous stance indefensible. 2X2s have every reason to feel pretty small about how these things have been handled historically.
Similarly if there is an attempt to do deal with this openly, I''d urge the ex 2x2 s to be generous and supportive even if it feels it is being handled rather inefficiently. For the sake of the greater good going forward , I'd urge them to be supportive and try to leave past injustices unmentioned for the present . This case is so important to get right at present, that hopefully we can all approve the general direction taken (if done openly), and not let any good become diluted and sidetracked by pointing away to the long line of past injustices.
Our focus at present should be that this case is handle right.
Not sure if I've communicated this well but hope the general thought makes sense.
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Post by To Twitch on Aug 28, 2007 17:17:47 GMT -5
This will play a lot better if they'd take this opportunity to drop the "God's only true ministry" bit, too. That's the falsehood that all past cover-ups have been built upon. It's pretty hard to expose serious wrongs of this nature while still holding yourself up as "God's only true ministers". Some people will have a hard time buying that. The fellowship is going to lose more members anyway so they may as well come clean all the way.
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Post by homosexual on Aug 28, 2007 18:21:59 GMT -5
just because a worker may be a homosexual doesn't mean he will corner your little boys and fondle them-there is a vast difference between pedophiles and homosexuals.
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Post by twitch on Aug 28, 2007 18:31:32 GMT -5
Too much to cope with at once !
If this case is openly communicated as we would all like, then that will be enough challenge until that case is bedded down.
Don't think your idea is likely to reach the same level of unity world wide !!!
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Post by Mary Lincoln on Aug 28, 2007 18:38:33 GMT -5
This afternoon my husband John and I, along with Scott Ross, met with Lyle Schober and Craig Winquist about this issue at my request. Lyle is the head worker in MN and Craig was Tim's companion. I won't attempt to outline the entire 1 1/2 hour meeting, but here is a summary: - Neither Lyle nor Craig had read the Criminal Complaint, so we provided them a copy which they read. - We expressed our concern and anger that this issue has not been properly handled thus far -- families that Tim has been with have not been notified. - I gave Lyle a sample letter of what I would expect the church to send out. - I was struck that Lyle and Craig seemed seriously out of touch with the reality of child molestation and standard procedures. - I was also impressed at Lyle's attention to our concern and acknowledgement that things needed to be handled differently. - I advised Lyle that I would like the notification to families to come from him, but that if it didn't, I would take the next steps myself. - Lyle seemed open to sending out the letter and saw the value of doing so. He seemed to have no objections to the letter I drafted. - Lyle seems to be more proactive than I would have expected about this issue, even though he seems to still be lacking the basic knowledge that most people "in the world" have. He had a meeting with his staff during the past year about child molestation, and let them know their responsibilities were to report anything they saw to the authorities without trying to determine the truth of the matter themselves (Tim was at this meeting). - We talked at length about how issues like this have been covered up in the past and that lasting and severe damage had been done because of this. Lyle agreed. - I plan on calling Lyle in two days to determine what action he will be taking. - Scott printed out the entire thread on Child Molestation - Minnesota so they could see that how much attention this is getting. At that time there were over 2,000 hits after just two days. If you don't know what this is about, please read the thread entitled Child Molestation - Minnesota. Juli |
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Post by Henry on Aug 28, 2007 18:52:27 GMT -5
Did Mary Lincoln do Abe in? lol
This is not a laughing matter and needs to be taken in a serious consideration.
A side note:
I am sure all workers at some point in their lives are "horney". How is this situation resolved? Is this what preps is all about and convention is just a cover?
It's becoming clear that the 2x2 ministry has it's dirty shorts problems.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 28, 2007 19:20:45 GMT -5
[ I do not know about him having "NO remorse" I have been told that he was threatening to kill himself. Yes, I agree Tim is mentally unstable. I wonder if this will be his plea.
I read in the complaint, that he basicly blamed the children for his actions... as he says he gave in to them.... I think a Prosecuting Attorney would have a field day with this statement. It is all very sad.
I think we should pray for Tim as well as the children involved. In fact we should pray for every child that has been abused in one way or the other. For those that have so wronged them I pray for their healing - these are very sick people.
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Post by Noticed on Aug 28, 2007 19:33:13 GMT -5
I am sure you are aware that there is no comparison between homosexualility and pedophilia. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles. Also, homosexuality is not a crime in this country. Can't imagine how you got this confused. There is a real danger during situations like this that ignorance dominates. [/quote] It looks to me like it was a typo and they meant to say "Some of my friends and I are putting an article on children molestation, homosexual-ITY within the ministry and fellowship." Isn't homosexuality equally rejected as a perversion? The OT deals rather harshly with those who practice it, to put it mildly. It seems like REQUIRING 2x2 preachers as well as Catholic priests to be married would cut down on the numbers of all sex offenders in these particular cults. |
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Post by Dale on Aug 28, 2007 20:33:24 GMT -5
Lyle was in my field for 2 years and I got to know him fairly well. ..I don't know of anyone who I'd think of as more honest and willing to do what's necessary, and right..he's a wise, gentle spirited man who always reminded me of my dad. .. .. it's possible he may take some heat from on up the line to do something else..hopefully he'll stand true to the needs of this family, and/or others to come! .. thanks you guys for pushing the accountability and openness factor here! Are you related to the Deraad worker? |
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Post by To ithascome on Aug 28, 2007 20:57:44 GMT -5
ithascome-----where did you read the complaint?
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Post by my two cents on Aug 28, 2007 20:58:41 GMT -5
ithascome,
If Tim is basically blaming the children for his wrong-doing: and saying that he gave in to them...then...the guy's a lying, deceptive, piece of garbage who's STILL unwilling to get honest with himself--and hold HIMSELF accountable for HIS OWN wrong-doings!
And any remorse he's feeling is that he got caught! And exposed! And will now get punished for it!
Not because he did (in his eyes and own self-justification system) any wrong himself!
What do you do when someone's conscience is so dead that they can even blame an innocent child--after they did such a wrong to that child--and their conscience hasn't even got enough life in it, to convict them?
Truly sad. And truly sad to think he was trusted, by anyone.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 28, 2007 21:02:21 GMT -5
You can get a copy of it if you wish... it is a matter of public record.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 28, 2007 21:10:39 GMT -5
ithascome, If Tim is basically blaming the children for his wrong-doing: and saying that he gave in to them...then...the guy's a lying, deceptive, piece of garbage who's STILL unwilling to get honest with himself--and hold HIMSELF accountable for HIS OWN wrong-doings! And any remorse he's feeling is that he got caught! And exposed! And will now get punished for it! Not because he did (in his eyes and own self-justification system) any wrong himself! What do you do when someone's conscience is so dead that they can even blame an innocent child--after they did such a wrong to that child--and their conscience hasn't even got enough life in it, to convict them? Truly sad. And truly sad to think he was trusted, by anyone. And sad to think he was preaching the gospel and people were listening and believing!!!! |
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Post by Hmm on Aug 28, 2007 21:23:32 GMT -5
Not only preaching but probably deciding who was saved and who wasn't
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Aug 29, 2007 0:28:10 GMT -5
Lyle was in my field for 2 years and I got to know him fairly well. ..I don't know of anyone who I'd think of as more honest and willing to do what's necessary, and right..he's a wise, gentle spirited man who always reminded me of my dad. .. .. it's possible he may take some heat from on up the line to do something else..hopefully he'll stand true to the needs of this family, and/or others to come! .. thanks you guys for pushing the accountability and openness factor here! Are you related to the Deraad worker? yes |
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Post by ithascome on Aug 29, 2007 0:58:12 GMT -5
Yes there is a 25 year imprisonment and/or $35,000.00 fine.... if convicted. He will probably get less than a full penality if it is his first conviction.
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Post by rolls eyes on Aug 29, 2007 8:44:57 GMT -5
I am sure you are aware that there is no comparison between homosexualility and pedophilia. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles. Also, homosexuality is not a crime in this country. Can't imagine how you got this confused. There is a real danger during situations like this that ignorance dominates. It looks to me like it was a typo and they meant to say "Some of my friends and I are putting an article on children molestation, homosexual-ITY within the ministry and fellowship." Isn't homosexuality equally rejected as a perversion? The OT deals rather harshly with those who practice it, to put it mildly. It seems like REQUIRING 2x2 preachers as well as Catholic priests to be married would cut down on the numbers of all sex offenders in these particular cults.[/quote] Actually, the majority of child molestation cases are commited by married men, so I'm not sure how requiring someone to be married would help. Speaking of equally rejected perversions, whatever that means, eating pork was dealt with harshly. Menstration, dress codes etc. If we're looking for justification for hatred and intolerance, the old testament is the place. Really quite a vile book. Did you have bacon for breakfast this morning?
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Post by rolls eyes on Aug 29, 2007 8:48:27 GMT -5
I am sure you are aware that there is no comparison between homosexualility and pedophilia. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles. Also, homosexuality is not a crime in this country. Can't imagine how you got this confused. There is a real danger during situations like this that ignorance dominates. . Actually, the majority of child molestation cases are commited by married men, so I'm not sure how requiring someone to be married would help [/quote] Speaking of equally rejected perversions, whatever that means, eating pork was dealt with harshly. Menstration, dress codes etc. If we're looking for justification for hatred and intolerance, the old testament is the place. Really quite a vile book. Did you have bacon for breakfast this morning?
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Post by wondering on Aug 29, 2007 8:55:09 GMT -5
John D. - Was that yes for being related to Dale with real enthusiasm. Old dry, humor Dale.
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Post by Need Some Help on Aug 29, 2007 9:53:03 GMT -5
If it is not too much trouble, would someone please tell me how I can read the complaint? Anything I try to search for they want money. (I am new at computers and don't really know what I amd doing--trying to learn.)
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 29, 2007 10:28:54 GMT -5
Howdy need some help.. My email is: bescottross@aol.com If you would like to email me and give me a good reason you want to know, I would be able to help you out. Here are bad reasons- You want to view something negative because he's a worker. You have a desire to post this information out here on the TMB for people to pick apart. Good reasons You have children and are worried about time they spent with Tim. You are professing and want to know if anything is being covered up. You want to do what you can to help spread this info to others who might be affected by Tim's actions. Feel free to email me- anyone. It doesn't mean I will get back to you. It is hard to tell a persons motives via the TMB, but if you give me a GOOD reason in your email to me, I will be sure you get the info. As pointed out this is public information that anyone can get, but I do not want to be party to a 'witch hunt' here on the TMB. A request with no reason given will not be responded to. Any request needs a valid email address. Scott  |
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Post by Need Some Help on Aug 29, 2007 10:43:58 GMT -5
I had read previous posts and comments about the filed complaint, I just thought it was something you could pull up from " free public records" and read. Some of the comments on here were just enough to make me want to read the complaint. Some have posted that the info was "Public Record", that was what I was referring too. Sorry, nevermind.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 29, 2007 11:11:32 GMT -5
This is the info on how to get this as Juliette posted on the other thread Of course everyone is entitled to their day in court.
I believe that the responsiblity to protect children is the first priority. That's why I believe that it's important that all families who have been in contact with Tim know what he has been charged with NOW so that they can have conversations with their children TODAY.
A copy of the criminal complaint against Tim can be obtained by asking for it from the Douglas County Court Administrator and paying $5. The phone number for more information about this is 320-762-3033. Reading a copy of this complaint will put your mind at ease about the importance of having a conversation with children who have been with Tim NOW instead of months from now when this is resolved. Perhaps this will help. Scott |
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Post by WARNING on Aug 29, 2007 12:26:58 GMT -5
A copy of the criminal complaint against Tim can be obtained by asking for it from the Douglas County Court Administrator and paying $5. The phone number for more information about this is 320-762-3033. Reading a copy of this complaint will put your mind at ease about the importance of having a conversation with children who have been with Tim NOW instead of months from now when this is resolved.
I've read the criminal complaint.
While it could be worse, people should be warned that IT IS NO EASY READ.
It is not an easy thing to read something like this without wanting to visit some form of violence on the perpetrator.
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Post by EricWright on Aug 29, 2007 13:14:39 GMT -5
I profess and don't want to "make trouble" as it is usually put but I know our elder(in the metro) has not been contacted about this "issue" and my parents who are elders outside the metro have not been contacted .
Most of their meeting has young families in it. This is alarming to me becuase one of those girls who is about 13 has been writing Tim and building a close realtionship with him. "Tim" is her favorite worker. My heart stopped when I learned the ages of his victims.
Perhaps Lyle is GOING to contact all the elders, but so far he must not have had to time to contact ALL of the elders in the state. Again, I don't think we need to be dramatic about this or stir up trouble but I agree people are watching closely.
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