|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 17, 2023 0:20:11 GMT -5
Yes, good idea to read and reread Maria’s post. And yes, the fellowship is sadly full of conscious and unconscious racism. I can recall so many things that make me cringe now that I didn’t hear and I accepted it because I was ignorant and drinking the kool-aide. I am sure or many are much more aware now but do they speak up? This should also of course be an area of zero tolerance. If this horror of csa and sa ever gets addressed fully I suppose there is hope of racism being addressed with an equal sense of outrage. Then there is mysogeny. The hierarchy allowing those older to mistreat those who are younger. Isolation. Judging others. There being an ‘other.’ Intolerance of all forms including the LGBTQ. Oh and the lack of transparency regarding money. Authoritarianism. Misguided doctrine. And my sibling in the work telling me they Don’t even concern themselves much with gaining outsiders, they are just trying to keep the children. Well, no wonder some say it should just die as a religion. It is dying. If all this was removed. All this horrible stuff what would be left? I think of little groups of friends here and there and they are deceived granted but they do love each other. Maybe as this crumbles into a ruin they will continue to meet together and support one another for a time. Most will eventually drift over to other churches or just find their own peace. All would be preferable outcomes in my opinion, for what it is worth. You can hear a still small voice better away from the chaos. It was so sad to read Maria's heart wrenching post. In our country, New Zealand, we are regarded as being one of the examples of colonisation by the British as being done right, in that a Treaty with the indigenous people was signed. And over the last few decades, successive governments have tried to redress wrongs that still occurred to both the Maori and Moriori people. But that is at a legal, governance and financial level.
Conscious and unconscious racism still exists, and it the people in our church are no more exempt than any other group. In fact, Maori are under represented, and there have been very few Maori or part-Maori workers. Te Reo (Maori language) is one of the three official languages of our country, but you never hear Te Reo spoken in the church. I have never heard a worker greet people with Kia Ora, or Tena Koutou, nau mai, haere mai. (Hello, greeting to all, and welcome).
I have, however, heard workers mock the culture, myths and legends that not unlike OT Bible stories, were used to explain life, the land, and it's forming. When I do hear this, I remind them of the fact the church has no more proof of a talking snake or donkey than Maui being fished from the sea.
I have seen lovely old ladies refuse to eat food from a food outlet where the Server is of dark skin, and people preferring to not hire them, which is illegal. These same people will then praise God for his "no respector of persons" attributes. Go figure!
I have heard a Worker speak about the evils of Trans-gendering, and seen a mother rush out of the meeting in tears, because her non-professing child was in the process. I have heard another rather "camp" male worker speak about the evils of homosexuality. These workers are ignorant of genetic makeup, and what is behind someone transitioning. Foreign to me, yes, but the greatest attributes required are empathy kindness and understanding, and these things cannot and should not be attempted to be preached out of people.
Misogyny is alive and well and a number of relationships, and is simply a behavioural issue, that should be addressed. Even in the workers, why does a Sister Worker not get given the closing speaker slot at a convention meeting? Fortunately, secular education is changing society for the better, and this will filter into the church. However, it needs to be acknowledged and addressed.
Just my thoughts on Getreal's great post.
I still cringe when I hear of the worker Beryl Ludlum who used to do fake Maori facial expressions for some reason.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on May 17, 2023 0:20:13 GMT -5
It's not about accommodating sin, it's how we treat those who are born with a different genetic makeup to us, and cannot help what they are. The church has been accommodating sin with victims for a long time, already. Read Maria's post, and the racism she encountered.
We had a "Coloured" South African engineer here working in the Oil and Gas industry, and he was professing. He was telling us about the racism he endured in some American conventions. Is that not OK?
The LGBTQ+ people are still real people with real feelings, and how we treat them is a test of our Christian Spirit.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on May 17, 2023 0:21:59 GMT -5
It was so sad to read Maria's heart wrenching post. In our country, New Zealand, we are regarded as being one of the examples of colonisation by the British as being done right, in that a Treaty with the indigenous people was signed. And over the last few decades, successive governments have tried to redress wrongs that still occurred to both the Maori and Moriori people. But that is at a legal, governance and financial level.
Conscious and unconscious racism still exists, and it the people in our church are no more exempt than any other group. In fact, Maori are under represented, and there have been very few Maori or part-Maori workers. Te Reo (Maori language) is one of the three official languages of our country, but you never hear Te Reo spoken in the church. I have never heard a worker greet people with Kia Ora, or Tena Koutou, nau mai, haere mai. (Hello, greeting to all, and welcome).
I have, however, heard workers mock the culture, myths and legends that not unlike OT Bible stories, were used to explain life, the land, and it's forming. When I do hear this, I remind them of the fact the church has no more proof of a talking snake or donkey than Maui being fished from the sea.
I have seen lovely old ladies refuse to eat food from a food outlet where the Server is of dark skin, and people preferring to not hire them, which is illegal. These same people will then praise God for his "no respector of persons" attributes. Go figure!
I have heard a Worker speak about the evils of Trans-gendering, and seen a mother rush out of the meeting in tears, because her non-professing child was in the process. I have heard another rather "camp" male worker speak about the evils of homosexuality. These workers are ignorant of genetic makeup, and what is behind someone transitioning. Foreign to me, yes, but the greatest attributes required are empathy kindness and understanding, and these things cannot and should not be attempted to be preached out of people.
Misogyny is alive and well and a number of relationships, and is simply a behavioural issue, that should be addressed. Even in the workers, why does a Sister Worker not get given the closing speaker slot at a convention meeting? Fortunately, secular education is changing society for the better, and this will filter into the church. However, it needs to be acknowledged and addressed.
Just my thoughts on Getreal's great post.
I still cringe when I hear the name Beryl Ludlum who used to do fake Maori facial expressions for some reason. Ha Ha - I'd forgotten about that.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 7:25:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by cornsilk on May 18, 2023 11:06:47 GMT -5
I know Maria. She’s beautiful inside and out. I hope and pray that when she was in my home that she felt comfortable. I had no idea of what she was dealing with…. poor girl.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 18, 2023 11:36:18 GMT -5
Wally, I have a question for you. I am not gay, lesbian or trans so you can talk to me 🙂. You study a lot and research meanings of words and try to get the context right for your interpretations. Do you get frustrated with workers who know less than you and make mistakes in meetings? I remember an elder corrected me about something after a gospel meeting and I am ashamed to say I didn’t take it well. I was too proud. I was embarrassed. I believed I was inspired by god I guess. Does it bother you that workers don’t have the kind of learning about scriptures that you seem to value so highly. I remember hearing that the workers out in eastern canada were taking some class or classes about the Bible, the history of it, basics. I guess the friends got tired of them making mistakes. Do you think the workers should have some theological education? I suppose such knowledge might undermine what they have been taught? Because if you read only with a bias looking for proof of what you already believe you will not in effect not learn anything truly valid. Just curious. I don't know the workers, but why would anyone truly born of God need a theological education? And which theological education do they need as there are so many denominations now? There is one way and that's the way of Jesus, he's taught and showed us how to live perfectly before God, and those born anew don't need a theological education they have the Spirit within teaching and guiding them daily.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 20:41:01 GMT -5
Ronda Stidolph leaves the workMay 18 Ronda was in South America for quite a few years, before returning to USA. This announcement doesn't mention any reasons. It is believed that the reasons are likely to become public and also that they do not relate to CSA. Dear friends, I have voluntarily stepped aside from the Work. Someone said in a workers' mtg a long time ago, that our goal shouldn't be to stay in the Work until we die but to become like Jesus. That's a true goal for all of us! Though my position in the Body changes, my connection with the Head, Christ Jesus, and also my salvation, remains unchanged and grows richer with time. I asked someone who'd stepped aside from the Work once, "Do you feel like you have more fruit or less fruit?". His response was, "I have different fruit". That will now be a part of my journey too. Your sister, Ronda Stidolph
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 20:55:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 21:44:08 GMT -5
I don't know the workers, but why would anyone truly born of God need a theological education? And which theological education do they need as there are so many denominations now? There is one way and that's the way of Jesus, he's taught and showed us how to live perfectly before God, and those born anew don't need a theological education they have the Spirit within teaching and guiding them daily. I guess maryhig, it depends on one's reasoning. To some in meeting, it makes perfect sense that we can figure it all out ourselves or just ask the workers. But God's Word contains some wisdom on the subject, if we try to rely on God's reasoning rather than our own: 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, ...." Ephesians 4:11 "And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers," 2 Timothy 2:15 " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (KJV) Romans 12:6-7 "We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;" Where one finds these gifted teachers is not always something we instinctively know (and certainly the traditions and form of the F&W church system will color where one seeks sound teaching - rightly or wrongly). For my part, I would not want to reject anyone, anywhere, with a gift of teaching from God, simply based on my reasoning. The topic of this thread is 'Sister Workers', and some of us have discovered that it's sister workers who sometimes make the better teachers in meeting. And of course, Jesus did say "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth"! Exactly how, is in God's hands and us being open to the Spirit's leading.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on May 18, 2023 23:03:59 GMT -5
Wally, I have a question for you. I am not gay, lesbian or trans so you can talk to me 🙂. You study a lot and research meanings of words and try to get the context right for your interpretations. Do you get frustrated with workers who know less than you and make mistakes in meetings? I remember an elder corrected me about something after a gospel meeting and I am ashamed to say I didn’t take it well. I was too proud. I was embarrassed. I believed I was inspired by god I guess. Does it bother you that workers don’t have the kind of learning about scriptures that you seem to value so highly. I remember hearing that the workers out in eastern canada were taking some class or classes about the Bible, the history of it, basics. I guess the friends got tired of them making mistakes. Do you think the workers should have some theological education? I suppose such knowledge might undermine what they have been taught? Because if you read only with a bias looking for proof of what you already believe you will not in effect not learn anything truly valid. Just curious. I don't know the workers, but why would anyone truly born of God need a theological education? And which theological education do they need as there are so many denominations now? There is one way and that's the way of Jesus, he's taught and showed us how to live perfectly before God, and those born anew don't need a theological education they have the Spirit within teaching and guiding them daily. I love learning more about the Bible from others. Would you go to a trained doctor if you were sick or go-to a book, pray about it and fix yourself. Seems like you might of had some conditioning against Theological education. A trait of the 2x2s, Cooneyites and closed groups. We are all subject to error so learning from others is good. No one is so spiritually minded that they don't need to learn from others. Being closed is how cults or sects are formed.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on May 18, 2023 23:20:46 GMT -5
Jesus in the twelfth year seemed to know an awful lot - he had been taught, I'm sure. Paul had been taught.
One of the issues today is that workers do not know the history of what they are teaching, and therefore, why things are what they are. They are easy pickings for some. Some proper training can only be beneficial.
One of the issue, particularly with the fudged beginnings, is that the older ones taught the younger ones false history, and then they blithely parrot it, in ignorance. This is just one example, or where proper education would have nipped that in the bud.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I'm not absolute on it.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on May 19, 2023 6:24:24 GMT -5
Jesus in the twelfth year seemed to know an awful lot - he had been taught, I'm sure. Paul had been taught. One of the issues today is that workers do not know the history of what they are teaching, and therefore, why things are what they are. They are easy pickings for some. Some proper training can only be beneficial. One of the issue, particularly with the fudged beginnings, is that the older ones taught the younger ones false history, and then they blithely parrot it, in ignorance. This is just one example, or where proper education would have nipped that in the bud. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I'm not absolute on it. If you do some digging you will find a lot of interesting things about the Hebrew customs and why a 12yr old boy may have known as much as he did. It will also make sense why the Jesus Character disappeared and reappeared at roughly age 30 and had fishermen dropping there nets to follow him. I believe the process went something like this...Bet Sefer, Bet Talmud, Bet Midrash, the fishermen most likely dropped out at Bet Sefer or Talmud and jumped at the opportunity being asked to be the disciple of a teacher.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 19, 2023 8:11:42 GMT -5
Another Canadian letter - bullying sisters
Letter by Jonathan Freeburn to friends in Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces, dated May 18, 2023.
Dear all,
We would like to write to you today to be open and clear about inappropriate and disrespectful interpersonal behaviour that has existed and subsequently been reported in our ministry. Recently there were changes made on this staff because of behaviour that was considered inappropriate, especially for responsible workers in a field towards their younger companions. The changes made regarding these workers were made with the intention to address this behaviour and to stop it going forward. There was no intention to cast any blame or doubt on the victims of this behaviour. We have moved after thorough deliberation on these issues, wanting to gather as much balanced information as possible. In seeking the guidance of God and wanting to move prayerfully and carefully, we believe that appropriate action has been taken in each case and that all involved will be wiser and kinder going into the future.
We feel that there needs to be an extra amount of compassion and understanding for those who are feeling vulnerable, and we know that as circumstances change, this could include any one of us at critical times in our life. We all need to learn to communicate with each other and listen to each other in a way that makes us free to voice our concerns and needs. This is an atmosphere that we would like to nurture and encourage in our fellowship and especially in the ministry.
God’s ministry on the earth is made up of human beings, with a human nature prone to failure. However, this is a very serious calling and, by the grace of God given to us, we should be held accountable to a high standard of love, meekness and morality. Just as a faithful adherence to this example set by Jesus has the potential to help and encourage; anything less than this heavenly standard has the potential to cause hurt and discouragement in others. In spite of sometimes being greatly disappointed in individuals in this ministry; we still believe in our calling in this ministry and our greatest ambition is to be servants, with a faithfulness to this calling.
We know that our greatest responsibility is to keep our own life and spirit right before God, but we do feel the weight of the responsibility when making decisions about things that involve so many of you. We fear that we will sometimes fail to make the best decision, and looking back we acknowledge that sometimes this has been the case. We feel sorry for our failure in this way. We are certainly in need of your prayers, and appreciative of your mercy and understanding. Most of all, we are thankful that God is above all and sees all. If we seek His Spirit and heed it, He will lead us in the way of truth and righteousness.
With brotherly greetings, Jonathan.
|
|
|
Post by lk1243 on May 19, 2023 14:31:16 GMT -5
Jesus in the twelfth year seemed to know an awful lot - he had been taught, I'm sure. Paul had been taught. One of the issues today is that workers do not know the history of what they are teaching, and therefore, why things are what they are. They are easy pickings for some. Some proper training can only be beneficial. One of the issue, particularly with the fudged beginnings, is that the older ones taught the younger ones false history, and then they blithely parrot it, in ignorance. This is just one example, or where proper education would have nipped that in the bud. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I'm not absolute on it. If you do some digging you will find a lot of interesting things about the Hebrew customs and why a 12yr old boy may have known as much as he did. It will also make sense why the Jesus Character disappeared and reappeared at roughly age 30 and had fishermen dropping there nets to follow him. I believe the process went something like this...Bet Sefer, Bet Talmud, Bet Midrash, the fishermen most likely dropped out at Bet Sefer or Talmud and jumped at the opportunity being asked to be the disciple of a teacher. Considering the Talmud wasn't really compiled and centralized as a text until, well, hundreds of years after Christ, I find this hard to believe. But you may be right that initially the fisherman apostles realized that they were being offered a greater profession for which they were not otherwise qualified. At the same time, professions were often built into the family--to stray away from what your father did was a big risk not only financially but also socially.
|
|
|
Post by jonathan on May 19, 2023 14:42:26 GMT -5
It took a lot of faith from those first disciples to obey and follow Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on May 19, 2023 22:07:37 GMT -5
If you do some digging you will find a lot of interesting things about the Hebrew customs and why a 12yr old boy may have known as much as he did. It will also make sense why the Jesus Character disappeared and reappeared at roughly age 30 and had fishermen dropping there nets to follow him. I believe the process went something like this...Bet Sefer, Bet Talmud, Bet Midrash, the fishermen most likely dropped out at Bet Sefer or Talmud and jumped at the opportunity being asked to be the disciple of a teacher. Considering the Talmud wasn't really compiled and centralized as a text until, well, hundreds of years after Christ, I find this hard to believe. But you may be right that initially the fisherman apostles realized that they were being offered a greater profession for which they were not otherwise qualified. At the same time, professions were often built into the family--to stray away from what your father did was a big risk not only financially but also socially. Bet Talmud meant "house of learning", It was were they learnt oral interpretations of TORAH, not to be mistaken with "the Talmud" which is what you seem to be describing.
|
|
|
Post by openingact34 on May 19, 2023 22:16:41 GMT -5
Another Canadian letter - bullying sistersLetter by Jonathan Freeburn to friends in Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces, dated May 18, 2023. Dear all, We would like to write to you today to be open and clear about inappropriate and disrespectful interpersonal behaviour that has existed and subsequently been reported in our ministry. Recently there were changes made on this staff because of behaviour that was considered inappropriate, especially for responsible workers in a field towards their younger companions. The changes made regarding these workers were made with the intention to address this behaviour and to stop it going forward. There was no intention to cast any blame or doubt on the victims of this behaviour. We have moved after thorough deliberation on these issues, wanting to gather as much balanced information as possible. In seeking the guidance of God and wanting to move prayerfully and carefully, we believe that appropriate action has been taken in each case and that all involved will be wiser and kinder going into the future. We feel that there needs to be an extra amount of compassion and understanding for those who are feeling vulnerable, and we know that as circumstances change, this could include any one of us at critical times in our life. We all need to learn to communicate with each other and listen to each other in a way that makes us free to voice our concerns and needs. This is an atmosphere that we would like to nurture and encourage in our fellowship and especially in the ministry. God’s ministry on the earth is made up of human beings, with a human nature prone to failure. However, this is a very serious calling and, by the grace of God given to us, we should be held accountable to a high standard of love, meekness and morality. Just as a faithful adherence to this example set by Jesus has the potential to help and encourage; anything less than this heavenly standard has the potential to cause hurt and discouragement in others. In spite of sometimes being greatly disappointed in individuals in this ministry; we still believe in our calling in this ministry and our greatest ambition is to be servants, with a faithfulness to this calling. We know that our greatest responsibility is to keep our own life and spirit right before God, but we do feel the weight of the responsibility when making decisions about things that involve so many of you. We fear that we will sometimes fail to make the best decision, and looking back we acknowledge that sometimes this has been the case. We feel sorry for our failure in this way. We are certainly in need of your prayers, and appreciative of your mercy and understanding. Most of all, we are thankful that God is above all and sees all. If we seek His Spirit and heed it, He will lead us in the way of truth and righteousness. With brotherly greetings, Jonathan. Huh? Open and clear? So many words... but I think he is trying to say something like: "Workers might not be infallible after all, but we are still very important and holy, and getting direction straight from God"
|
|
|
Post by chuck on May 20, 2023 0:51:11 GMT -5
It took a lot of faith from those first disciples to obey and follow Jesus. Jonathan there is a valid explanation, its not just some random people blindly obeying someone. The answer is in the Hebrew customs.
|
|
|
Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 1:36:50 GMT -5
Another Canadian letter - bullying sistersLetter by Jonathan Freeburn to friends in Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces, dated May 18, 2023. Dear all, We would like to write to you today to be open and clear about inappropriate and disrespectful interpersonal behaviour that has existed and subsequently been reported in our ministry. Recently there were changes made on this staff because of behaviour that was considered inappropriate, especially for responsible workers in a field towards their younger companions. The changes made regarding these workers were made with the intention to address this behaviour and to stop it going forward. There was no intention to cast any blame or doubt on the victims of this behaviour. Yes, he needs an editor. When he says there was no intention to cast any blame or doubt, does that mean he did!?!
|
|
|
Post by margaret on May 23, 2023 15:39:30 GMT -5
This is important (and so sad), thanks, mdmSomething is rotten in Denmark. Are sexual dalliances a "perk" of leadership in this group? If not globally, in various localities? The founder, after all, was known to "sample" new Sister Workers, and early leaders, like George Walker, would most certainly have known this, but chose to remain. Is there a gentleman's agreement to look the other way as long as the system isn't put at risk? Are men promoted by other men into leadership positions based on their ability to be discrete, and/or to go along? There's an awful lot of smoke coming from the top. The dismissal of concerned sister workers who speak up is especially troubling, and imo, smacks of a "men's club" that the Sister Workers would not know about. "Pesky Sister Workers" who aren't privy to the Gentlemen's agreement? Just some thoughts. I'm not especially happy to be thinking them, but I'm seeing the possibility of profound corruption and complicity. Personally, I do not believe any human being has access to supernatural insight (e.g. "Holy Spirit"); there is NOTHING about the 2x2s that prompts me to re-think this. Potentially.Very.Rotten, IMO. like the saying goes, it’s not what you know it’s who you know. I know three overseers whom I learned were good buddies before they went into the work. Why anyone would accept the role of overseer in the ministry when it’s never been instituted by Christ here on earth, is beyond me. Must be a loophole somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 23, 2023 23:26:43 GMT -5
I don't know the workers, but why would anyone truly born of God need a theological education? And which theological education do they need as there are so many denominations now? There is one way and that's the way of Jesus, he's taught and showed us how to live perfectly before God, and those born anew don't need a theological education they have the Spirit within teaching and guiding them daily. I guess maryhig, it depends on one's reasoning. To some in meeting, it makes perfect sense that we can figure it all out ourselves or just ask the workers. But God's Word contains some wisdom on the subject, if we try to rely on God's reasoning rather than our own: 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, ...." Ephesians 4:11 "And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers," 2 Timothy 2:15 " Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (KJV) Romans 12:6-7 "We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;" Where one finds these gifted teachers is not always something we instinctively know (and certainly the traditions and form of the F&W church system will color where one seeks sound teaching - rightly or wrongly). For my part, I would not want to reject anyone, anywhere, with a gift of teaching from God, simply based on my reasoning. The topic of this thread is 'Sister Workers', and some of us have discovered that it's sister workers who sometimes make the better teachers in meeting. And of course, Jesus did say "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth"! Exactly how, is in God's hands and us being open to the Spirit's leading. Jesus said we will know them by their fruits, so we will know those guided by the Spirit by their word and life. My uncle had no theological training at all, and he was strong in God. He went out preaching with the faith that God would full his mouth just as Jesus said he would, and he did. Jesus said take no thought of how or what you should speak as it will be given to you in that hour, and that's what he did, he obeyed God in his daily life, lived by his word and opened his mouth and God filled it. I've got complete faith in God, and I know that we don't need theological training, I have the faith that God will teach and guide us in the truth, through Christ by the power of the Spirit. I'm not saying I don't go to others, we have some good teachers in our meeting, but I don't need to go to college or have exams to know God or to be taught the things of God, I need God. Who needs college when you have the author of the book walking with you daily? Also there are those who teach theology in schools and colleges that are atheists, to them it's just a job. You can teach the words of the Bible to anyone, but only God can give you wisdom and understanding in the ways and word of God. And only those truly born anew of God can know that, regardless of all the theological training and degrees that anyone has.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 23, 2023 23:27:55 GMT -5
I don't know the workers, but why would anyone truly born of God need a theological education? And which theological education do they need as there are so many denominations now? There is one way and that's the way of Jesus, he's taught and showed us how to live perfectly before God, and those born anew don't need a theological education they have the Spirit within teaching and guiding them daily. I love learning more about the Bible from others. Would you go to a trained doctor if you were sick or go-to a book, pray about it and fix yourself. Seems like you might of had some conditioning against Theological education. A trait of the 2x2s, Cooneyites and closed groups. We are all subject to error so learning from others is good. No one is so spiritually minded that they don't need to learn from others. Being closed is how cults or sects are formed. Which denomination do we get trained in?
|
|
|
Post by Grant on May 23, 2023 23:58:41 GMT -5
I love learning more about the Bible from others. Would you go to a trained doctor if you were sick or go-to a book, pray about it and fix yourself. Seems like you might of had some conditioning against Theological education. A trait of the 2x2s, Cooneyites and closed groups. We are all subject to error so learning from others is good. No one is so spiritually minded that they don't need to learn from others. Being closed is how cults or sects are formed. Which denomination do we get trained in? You don't get trained in any denomination. Some denominations might have their own college but there are plenty of non Denominational Bible colleges. The Faith Misson which William Irvine who started the 2x2s, was non denominational. What is wrong with a denomination any way? The little group the Cooneyites which you attend is a denomination with it's own set of beliefs etc. Cooney broke away from the main group and formed his own group of followers which you belong to. Why don't you have preachers, and fulfill the great commission and go into the whole world like the Bible says we should? Why would you not want to learn from past Christians. Why just those in your little group? Your beliefs are also a lot different from other Christians so is the spirit guiding you or them?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 24, 2023 2:25:36 GMT -5
Which denomination do we get trained in? You don't get trained in any denomination. Some denominations might have their own college but there are plenty of non Denominational Bible colleges. The Faith Misson which William Irvine who started the 2x2s, was non denominational. What is wrong with a denomination any way? The little group the Cooneyites which you attend is a denomination with it's own set of beliefs etc. Cooney broke away from the main group and formed his own group of followers which you belong to. Why don't you have preachers, and fulfill the great commission and go into the whole world like the Bible says we should? Why would you not want to learn from past Christians. Why just those in your little group? Your beliefs are also a lot different from other Christians so is the spirit guiding you or them? Because Jesus taught us enough we don't need anymore, we just follow him and his teachings. Don't you think that's enough? Because I know that's all we need, we couldn't have a better example than him I don't need to go to college to learn about Jesus I read the Bible and he has showed the way perfectly. What's wrong with a denomination? Many churches are nothing like the way of Jesus, what fancy robes did Jesus wear? Did he have all these gold and silver things that they use for their various man made ordinances. Did he build up money in the bank for preaching the word of God? No he didn't, he is the way he's not a part of a denomination, they are man made and there are many things wrong with many different denominations, and I don't mean the people I mean the churches they are nothing like Jesus. Just look at the kings coronation in England all that pomp and ceremony where they all took their places at different levels, utter nonsense, calling themselves right reverend and most reverend. We are not to reverence ourselves at all, we are to be unprofitable servants not build ourselves up and take high titles, that's nothing like Jesus. Where did Jesus say we are to call our ministers reverend, right reverend or most reverend or Holy father etc.? Nowhere. By the way, we don't have our own set of beliefs, we follow Jesus how he taught us to in the Bible. And as I've said before, you'll know those truly following Jesus by their fruits by the way they live. And I listen to those in our meetings for just that reason, I can see Jesus lived through them and I know they are following the true way of God.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 24, 2023 2:36:20 GMT -5
Which denomination do we get trained in? You don't get trained in any denomination. Some denominations might have their own college but there are plenty of non Denominational Bible colleges. The Faith Misson which William Irvine who started the 2x2s, was non denominational. What is wrong with a denomination any way? The little group the Cooneyites which you attend is a denomination with it's own set of beliefs etc. Cooney broke away from the main group and formed his own group of followers which you belong to. Why don't you have preachers, and fulfill the great commission and go into the whole world like the Bible says we should? Why would you not want to learn from past Christians. Why just those in your little group? Your beliefs are also a lot different from other Christians so is the spirit guiding you or them? By the way, I didn't say that I didn't want to learn from other Christians where did I say that? I said I don't believe we need to attend a theological college to know the ways of God. What about atheists teaching theology, do you agree with that? Because I've already heard that an RE teacher here is an atheist and he said it's just a job to him and there are many that believe like this, it's just a job. So is that alright? It's not just a job it's a way of life, and the people I listen to in our meetings truly believe in Jesus, love God and obey his word and try to live as Jesus taught us to live daily and that's why I listen to them, I can see it in their lives and they have wisdom and understanding in their words and I know they are preaching the truth, and not just in our meeting, but also to whoever the meet in their everyday lives.
|
|
|
Post by haggard on May 24, 2023 7:44:53 GMT -5
Another Canadian letter - bullying sistersLetter by Jonathan Freeburn to friends in Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces, dated May 18, 2023. Dear all, We would like to write to you today to be open and clear about inappropriate and disrespectful interpersonal behaviour that has existed and subsequently been reported in our ministry. Recently there were changes made on this staff because of behaviour that was considered inappropriate, especially for responsible workers in a field towards their younger companions. The changes made regarding these workers were made with the intention to address this behaviour and to stop it going forward. There was no intention to cast any blame or doubt on the victims of this behaviour. We have moved after thorough deliberation on these issues, wanting to gather as much balanced information as possible. In seeking the guidance of God and wanting to move prayerfully and carefully, we believe that appropriate action has been taken in each case and that all involved will be wiser and kinder going into the future. We feel that there needs to be an extra amount of compassion and understanding for those who are feeling vulnerable, and we know that as circumstances change, this could include any one of us at critical times in our life. We all need to learn to communicate with each other and listen to each other in a way that makes us free to voice our concerns and needs. This is an atmosphere that we would like to nurture and encourage in our fellowship and especially in the ministry. God’s ministry on the earth is made up of human beings, with a human nature prone to failure. However, this is a very serious calling and, by the grace of God given to us, we should be held accountable to a high standard of love, meekness and morality. Just as a faithful adherence to this example set by Jesus has the potential to help and encourage; anything less than this heavenly standard has the potential to cause hurt and discouragement in others. In spite of sometimes being greatly disappointed in individuals in this ministry; we still believe in our calling in this ministry and our greatest ambition is to be servants, with a faithfulness to this calling. We know that our greatest responsibility is to keep our own life and spirit right before God, but we do feel the weight of the responsibility when making decisions about things that involve so many of you. We fear that we will sometimes fail to make the best decision, and looking back we acknowledge that sometimes this has been the case. We feel sorry for our failure in this way. We are certainly in need of your prayers, and appreciative of your mercy and understanding. Most of all, we are thankful that God is above all and sees all. If we seek His Spirit and heed it, He will lead us in the way of truth and righteousness. With brotherly greetings, Jonathan. Huh? Open and clear? So many words... but I think he is trying to say something like: "Workers might not be infallible after all, but we are still very important and holy, and getting direction straight from God"
|
|
|
Post by haggard on May 24, 2023 7:58:32 GMT -5
l think what hes trying toi say is.....we arent perfect...but we still want to stay on payroll
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 24, 2023 14:54:08 GMT -5
l think what hes trying toi say is.....we arent perfect...but we still want to stay on payroll Are you a relation of Merle's?
|
|