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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 19, 2023 21:31:19 GMT -5
Any way you look at it, you have to respect the giant brass balls that he seems to have. Very much resembling those in the New Testament like Peter. 'After Dale Shultz became a Western US Overseer in 2005, he began "cleaning house". In 2013, he "reached out" to some D&R wives about separating from their husbands. He held up as examples three 2x2 women who chose to "make it right" by separating. Further, he mentioned that "God took care of it" for a fourth D&R wife whose husband died suddenly before they separated, perhaps inferring a warning that D&Rs who do not separate may experience dire consequences' - Kropp, Cherie. Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and It's Founder, William Irvine. 2022. Too bad he didn't show the same dedication to cleaning up the predators within his ministry. Straining at gnats and still swallowing camels.
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Post by margaret on Apr 21, 2023 22:26:06 GMT -5
A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ. Neither should there be one central figure for each state/province/country but Christ for that matter. Who were the “overseers” of the apostles? Jesus didn’t appoint overseers. Man loves to be in control and Jesus knew that.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 21, 2023 22:39:08 GMT -5
Again who are the current overseers of Canada and the West US and the East US? And Mexico and Europe? And Australia? And does anyone know if Ray Hoffman is one of the overseers of overseers?
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Post by neighbour on Apr 21, 2023 22:47:08 GMT -5
Again who are the current overseers of Canada and the West US and the East US? And Mexico and Europe? And Australia? And does anyone know if Ray Hoffman is one of the overseers of overseers? The overseer of Ontario is Carson Wallace (succeeded Carson Cowan). Wayne Hutchison was the overseer of the atlantic provinces (succeeded Bill Bryant) until he was moved recently. Barry Barkley and Ray Hoffman are the overseers of overseers in the US/Canada, but Ray seems to be overseeing Atlantic Canada these days. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/barkley.php
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 21, 2023 23:22:27 GMT -5
Great! Where can this information be found since everyone here is afraid to post names. Yes please... The overseers seem well known.... Who is the man on top? Ray Hoffman is probably the closest thing to the man on top. His influence goes pretty far. He has partial training as a Catholic Priest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 1:49:17 GMT -5
A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ. Neither should there be one central figure for each state/province/country but Christ for that matter. Who were the “overseers” of the apostles? Jesus didn’t appoint overseers. Man loves to be in control and Jesus knew that. That idea would have come from the OT when Moses father-in-law had him break things up into smaller groups so he (a central figure) wouldn't get overloaded. A state overseer can't do as much damage cause he's only in charge of 1 state not the entire 2x2 group. Same for province and countries. Although the ones in charge of countries could possibly wreck a country. There is some breaking down into small groups in the NT with Bishops and Deacons. It wouldn't be a stretch to include all clergy in that style.
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Post by christiansburg on May 7, 2023 20:21:16 GMT -5
We do but there is nothing beneficial in knowing those details. It comes down to state and local worker assignments and what they can offer to us spiritually. While there tends to be some differences of opinions on some doctrinal points the most important thing is that we have a personal relationship with our Savior. Long ago it was decided that it was too much for only a few to take full responsibility. Why would it not be beneficial for a sexually abused person to know who the abusive state overseer’s overseer is? You see, here we go again. You initially said nothing about needing to know because of a a sexually abuse overseer. All you ask about was does anyone know the hierarchy. We are all aware of CSA and if you had asked about that in your beginning questions I would have answered you differently.
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Post by getreal on May 7, 2023 21:21:38 GMT -5
The east and west of canada and us have operated almost as 2 separate religions for years and years no, more so in the us when the division happened in regards to how divorce and remarriage and taking part in meeting was handled. This separation for years has been a blemish on the idea of unity as in not. Prominence and influence amongst overseers is unwritten and fluid. Dale Shultz is at the top world wide or very close. There is a reason he moved from sask to california where the money is. He is respected and is overseer of the highest pop of friends and workers in the world. Merlin Affleck is his protege. Is this not well known?
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Post by luke2236 on May 7, 2023 23:37:25 GMT -5
Why would it not be beneficial for a sexually abused person to know who the abusive state overseer’s overseer is? You see, here we go again. You initially said nothing about needing to know because of a a sexually abuse overseer. All you ask about was does anyone know the hierarchy. We are all aware of CSA and if you had asked about that in your beginning questions I would have answered you differently. You are dead wrong. Just own it instead of twisting lies. You said, “We do but there is nothing beneficial in knowing those details.” I gave you a beneficial reason… That is all. That is the problem with absolute answers “nothing beneficial”… there is benefit to knowing things! Start asking questions instead of downplaying that things aren’t important.
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Post by butterfingers on May 7, 2023 23:47:32 GMT -5
You see, here we go again. You initially said nothing about needing to know because of a a sexually abuse overseer. All you ask about was does anyone know the hierarchy. We are all aware of CSA and if you had asked about that in your beginning questions I would have answered you differently. You are dead wrong. Just own it instead of twisting lies. You said, “We do but there is nothing beneficial in knowing those details.” I gave you a beneficial reason… That is all. That is the problem with absolute answers “nothing beneficial”… there is benefit to knowing things! Start asking questions instead of downplaying that things aren’t important. Open your eyes..........!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by jonathan on May 20, 2023 8:30:25 GMT -5
The east and west of canada and us have operated almost as 2 separate religions for years and years no, more so in the us when the division happened in regards to how divorce and remarriage and taking part in meeting was handled. This separation for years has been a blemish on the idea of unity as in not. Prominence and influence amongst overseers is unwritten and fluid. Dale Shultz is at the top world wide or very close. There is a reason he moved from sask to california where the money is. He is respected and is overseer of the highest pop of friends and workers in the world. Merlin Affleck is his protege. Is this not well known? What a scary thought that MA cozies up to DS? May the good Lord have mercy on us!
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Post by SharonArnold on May 20, 2023 10:29:17 GMT -5
The east and west of canada and us have operated almost as 2 separate religions for years and years no, more so in the us when the division happened in regards to how divorce and remarriage and taking part in meeting was handled. This separation for years has been a blemish on the idea of unity as in not. Prominence and influence amongst overseers is unwritten and fluid. Dale Shultz is at the top world wide or very close. There is a reason he moved from sask to california where the money is. He is respected and is overseer of the highest pop of friends and workers in the world. Merlin Affleck is his protege. Is this not well known? What a scary thought that MA cozies up to DS? May the good Lord have mercy on us! Of course he does. As a protegee and appointee, he is part of DS's power structure, giving loyalty and taking direction. He's not the only one either. Of course, they would never explain it quite in these terms, at least in their own minds.
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Post by jonathan on May 20, 2023 10:36:38 GMT -5
The brotherhood, right?
Will be interesting to see how many of them will remain standing....
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Post by mdm on May 20, 2023 10:37:01 GMT -5
We do but there is nothing beneficial in knowing those details. It comes down to state and local worker assignments and what they can offer to us spiritually. While there tends to be some differences of opinions on some doctrinal points the most important thing is that we have a personal relationship with our Savior. Long ago it was decided that it was too much for only a few to take full responsibility. Why would it not be beneficial for a sexually abused person to know who the abusive state overseer’s overseer is? So that the the overseer’s overseer can avoid accountability. He makes the decisions, and then hides behind the curtain of “I don’t exist,” “it wasn’t me ”…
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 2:37:24 GMT -5
This is fun. The point is, world wide there are just a few top dogs and I guarantee you, if he is at all still lucid Dale Schultz is the top or next to. But he is getting old. He was always so skinny and weak looking. I remember during special meetings I once sent him a case of Ensure liquid supplement. Yes, I was unusual. I heard he appreciated the gesture.
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Post by snow on May 22, 2023 20:08:58 GMT -5
This is fun. The point is, world wide there are just a few top dogs and I guarantee you, if he is at all still lucid Dale Schultz is the top or next to. But he is getting old. He was always so skinny and weak looking. I remember during special meetings I once sent him a case of Ensure liquid supplement. Yes, I was unusual. I heard he appreciated the gesture. Well from the looks of things he helped cover for John Vanderberg. wingsfortruth.info/2023/05/18/john-vandenberg-clarification/Back in January of 2023, Sheri Autrey was working on her case and was informed there had been child sex assault allegations against John. The allegations involved sex assault against a 14 year-old girl in Mexico in the early 2000’s. This information was given by a very credible source who was close to the situation at the time. Since January 2023, it has been brought to our attention that at least ten workers knew of this particular crime and participated in the cover up. Dale Shultz was instrumental in preventing the reporting of John Vandenberg’s crimes to law enforcement.
Sheri also learned that many years ago, one of the friends saw pictures of John with young children. This caused enough alarm that the friend personally mailed a letter to John to address her concerns after seeing the body language displayed just in pictures. We too have seen pictures of John with many children when he was in the Philippines this year for Convention. In light of the allegations against him, these photos are equally troubling.
We were recently informed that some of the friends reported John to CPS and Rob Newman is aware of that reporting as he stated in his letter.
For 17 years, multiple workers have known that John Vandenberg committed sex crimes against a child. They did not report it. They did not notify you. Therefore, countless children were offered as living sacrifices.
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Post by christiansburg on May 22, 2023 20:45:14 GMT -5
Yes please... The overseers seem well known.... Who is the man on top? Ray Hoffman is probably the closest thing to the man on top. His influence goes pretty far. He has partial training as a Catholic Priest. I don't think Ray H. has any training as a Catholic Priest. He was a member of the Catholic church until in his early twenties. Was in college studying to be a chiropractor during that time.
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Post by mdm on May 22, 2023 21:26:20 GMT -5
I don't think Ray H. has any training as a Catholic Priest. He was a member of the Catholic church until in his early twenties. Was in college studying to be a chiropractor during that time. Interesting, he claimed otherwise while preaching at our convention. Unless he *intended* to become a priest and the story got embellished. I've heard the same, including that his goal was to become the Pope.
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Post by margaret on May 23, 2023 0:21:08 GMT -5
The east and west of canada and us have operated almost as 2 separate religions for years and years no, more so in the us when the division happened in regards to how divorce and remarriage and taking part in meeting was handled. This separation for years has been a blemish on the idea of unity as in not. Prominence and influence amongst overseers is unwritten and fluid. Dale Shultz is at the top world wide or very close. There is a reason he moved from sask to california where the money is. He is respected and is overseer of the highest pop of friends and workers in the world. Merlin Affleck is his protege. Is this not well known? What a scary thought that MA cozies up to DS? May the good Lord have mercy on us! That’s not all who MA is cozied up with. Bad influences abound because iniquity abounds. Same with many other overseers. If you are ever tempted by the office of an overseer, run as far away as you can. The first will be last
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Post by BobWilliston on May 24, 2023 0:12:18 GMT -5
Ray Hoffman is probably the closest thing to the man on top. His influence goes pretty far. He has partial training as a Catholic Priest. I don't think Ray H. has any training as a Catholic Priest. He was a member of the Catholic church until in his early twenties. Was in college studying to be a chiropractor during that time. You're missing what he did between high school and chiropractic in his 20's.
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Post by christiansburg on May 24, 2023 7:54:07 GMT -5
I don't think Ray H. has any training as a Catholic Priest. He was a member of the Catholic church until in his early twenties. Was in college studying to be a chiropractor during that time. You're missing what he did between high school and chiropractic in his 20's. OK. Do you know where he was during that time. He was in our home a few days about 7 years ago. Never mentioned it. He only talked about being as an altar boy. Says it was a bad experience for him.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 24, 2023 23:40:41 GMT -5
You're missing what he did between high school and chiropractic in his 20's. OK. Do you know where he was during that time. He was in our home a few days about 7 years ago. Never mentioned it. He only talked about being as an altar boy. Says it was a bad experience for him. He was in a seminary learning to be a priest -- then quit and turned to chiropractic. I don't know the man personally, but I know people who know him VERY WELL.
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Post by luke2236 on Jun 4, 2023 21:17:09 GMT -5
Ray Hoffman is probably the closest thing to the man on top. His influence goes pretty far. He has partial training as a Catholic Priest. I don't think Ray H. has any training as a Catholic Priest. He was a member of the Catholic church until in his early twenties. Was in college studying to be a chiropractor during that time. He was in my home when he told me this. He could have been lying I guess.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 4, 2023 22:04:20 GMT -5
The east and west of canada and us have operated almost as 2 separate religions for years and years no, more so in the us when the division happened in regards to how divorce and remarriage and taking part in meeting was handled. This separation for years has been a blemish on the idea of unity as in not. Prominence and influence amongst overseers is unwritten and fluid. Dale Shultz is at the top world wide or very close. There is a reason he moved from sask to california where the money is. He is respected and is overseer of the highest pop of friends and workers in the world. Merlin Affleck is his protege. Is this not well known? What a scary thought that MA cozies up to DS? May the good Lord have mercy on us! They're both Saskatchewan farm boys and Merlin would have known Dale all of his life.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 4, 2023 22:10:29 GMT -5
Again who are the current overseers of Canada and the West US and the East US? And Mexico and Europe? And Australia? And does anyone know if Ray Hoffman is one of the overseers of overseers? The overseer of Ontario is Carson Wallace (succeeded Carson Cowan). Wayne Hutchison was the overseer of the atlantic provinces (succeeded Bill Bryant) until he was moved recently. Barry Barkley and Ray Hoffman are the overseers of overseers in the US/Canada, but Ray seems to be overseeing Atlantic Canada these days. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/barkley.phpWhere was Wayne moved to?
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Post by getreal on Jun 4, 2023 22:14:22 GMT -5
Merlin and Dale are as close as can be. Dale was Merlin’s first companion. I was in Merlin’s first gospel meeting. Had lunch with him before. I know them both extremely well. Warts and all.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 4, 2023 22:15:02 GMT -5
George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. There were a couple between Jack and Dale, weren't there? I think Jack Price may have been included in there.
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Post by getreal on Jun 4, 2023 22:19:23 GMT -5
Stanley Sharpe preceded Dale Schultz. Jack price after.
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