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Post by mdm on Apr 18, 2023 17:18:08 GMT -5
George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. Is there an overseer over all the overseers worldwide? Not to my knowledge.
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Post by snow on Apr 18, 2023 17:18:40 GMT -5
Is there an overseer over all the overseers worldwide? Not to my knowledge. Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 17:22:38 GMT -5
George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. Is there an overseer over all the overseers worldwide? If there is, it would be a very bad idea...
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Post by snow on Apr 18, 2023 17:40:12 GMT -5
Is there an overseer over all the overseers worldwide? If there is, it would be a very bad idea... Why do you say that?
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 18, 2023 19:14:31 GMT -5
Is there an overseer over all the overseers worldwide? If there is, it would be a very bad idea... I keep hearing Ray Hoffman’s name is he considered a regional archbishop?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 21:48:44 GMT -5
If there is, it would be a very bad idea... Why do you say that? A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ.
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Post by fixit on Apr 18, 2023 22:49:09 GMT -5
In the early days I believe it was shared in the US with Jack Carroll on one side and George Walker on the other. I am not sure what the line of succession has been since they passed. No-one seems to really know who is over their overseer. George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. This guy? www.anotherstep.net/summary/constructedfilth.htm
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 19, 2023 1:25:24 GMT -5
Why have these tossers not been dealt to. A shovel applied to the back of the head with reasonable force would adjust their attitude in a positive way. I can only assume that the men folk where this happens are a bunch of pussy's.
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Post by chuck on Apr 19, 2023 1:29:11 GMT -5
Which side would you prefer to hear? In a just, rational, logical world both sides. Anything less would be the epitome of ignorance and injustice. Deu 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deu 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. Duet. 17 Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work. 2 Samuel 16 and 2 Samuel 19 The first story then the second story. You appear to favor Ziba instead of Mephibosheth. Joh 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? Exo_18:16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. Just weights are called for all through the scriptures. Even Solomons examples seem to have escaped your grasp. I do realize that might not fit in your scientific worldview and narrative of guilty until proven innocent. Your previous cries of slander on here seem a bit hypocritical at the moment. God help anyone in your Bishoprick elder... I think fixit is wiser, he only has 1 wife and zero concubines.........
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Post by chuck on Apr 19, 2023 1:52:56 GMT -5
Why have these tossers not been dealt to. A shovel applied to the back of the head with reasonable force would adjust their attitude in a positive way. I can only assume that the men folk where this happens are a bunch of pussy's. If they thought their ticket for heaven was in jeopardy they'd grow some balls I bet....but obviously the issues at hand don't stop you from being at the pointy end of the rocket ship which is an eyebrow raiser.......
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 19, 2023 2:46:30 GMT -5
In a just, rational, logical world both sides. Anything less would be the epitome of ignorance and injustice. Deu 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deu 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. Duet. 17 Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work. 2 Samuel 16 and 2 Samuel 19 The first story then the second story. You appear to favor Ziba instead of Mephibosheth. Joh 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? Exo_18:16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. Just weights are called for all through the scriptures. Even Solomons examples seem to have escaped your grasp. I do realize that might not fit in your scientific worldview and narrative of guilty until proven innocent. Your previous cries of slander on here seem a bit hypocritical at the moment. God help anyone in your Bishoprick elder... I think fixit is wiser, he only has 1 wife and zero concubines......... Bonkubines?
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Post by chuck on Apr 19, 2023 2:51:02 GMT -5
I think fixit is wiser, he only has 1 wife and zero concubines......... Bonkubines? The mind boggles.....
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Post by mdm on Apr 19, 2023 9:53:24 GMT -5
If there is, it would be a very bad idea... I keep hearing Ray Hoffman’s name is he considered a regional archbishop? I believe, based on not so recent information, that Ray Hoffman was (at least several years ago) being prepared to take Barry Barkley’s place as Eastern US overseer. He fits the mold, too.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 19, 2023 13:28:07 GMT -5
In the early days I believe it was shared in the US with Jack Carroll on one side and George Walker on the other. I am not sure what the line of succession has been since they passed. No-one seems to really know who is over their overseer. George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. There were a couple between Jack and Dale, weren't there?
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Post by snow on Apr 19, 2023 14:08:47 GMT -5
A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ. I tend to agree with that, but they really are doing exactly that with overseers aren't they? I understand that practicality makes it work better to have one person in charge, but it remains to be true that they aren't doing what Jesus told his apostles. He basically was saying they were all equal in that statement. However, I imagine that it's just one of those feel good statements and there really were apostles with more of a standing with different jobs. Someone took care of the finances for example.
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Post by mdm on Apr 19, 2023 14:15:38 GMT -5
George Walker was succeeded by Taylor Wood and then by Barry Barkley. Jack Carrol was succeeded by Dale Shultz. There were a couple between Jack and Dale, weren't there? Yes, sorry, I don't guess Dale would have replaced JC directly
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Post by snow on Apr 19, 2023 14:16:26 GMT -5
Ok. That letter just makes me so angry. Anyone who spoke out about the inhumane way the workers handled the Alberta fiasco should not be described as having the wrong spirit etc. I imagine speaking the truth about what happened was a great 'inconvenience' to those workers that were doing something that was so divisive and self serving. It's not much wonder that there are so many letters from victims saying they made workers aware of their abuse and then those workers treated them like they did Morgan and Marg. Anyone that criticizes, advocates for change gets accused of having 'the wrong spirit'. Again, I recognize that not all workers and friends are like this. I would even say they aren't the majority. But to have these guys in places of power that write letters like this one, that's just wrong and is one of the things that does need to change for the group to ever have any credibility when they say they want what is best for everyone.
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Post by fixit on Apr 19, 2023 14:47:52 GMT -5
A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ. I tend to agree with that, but they really are doing exactly that with overseers aren't they? I understand that practicality makes it work better to have one person in charge, but it remains to be true that they aren't doing what Jesus told his apostles. He basically was saying they were all equal in that statement. However, I imagine that it's just one of those feel good statements and there really were apostles with more of a standing with different jobs. Someone took care of the finances for example. Like this? Acts 6:1 Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, the Hellenists murmured against the Hebrews because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. 2 And the twelve summoned the body of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And what they said pleased the whole multitude, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Proch′orus, and Nica′nor, and Timon, and Par′menas, and Nicola′us, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 14:55:23 GMT -5
In a just, rational, logical world both sides. Anything less would be the epitome of ignorance and injustice. Deu 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Deu 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. Duet. 17 Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work. 2 Samuel 16 and 2 Samuel 19 The first story then the second story. You appear to favor Ziba instead of Mephibosheth. Joh 7:51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? Exo_18:16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. Just weights are called for all through the scriptures. Even Solomons examples seem to have escaped your grasp. I do realize that might not fit in your scientific worldview and narrative of guilty until proven innocent. Your previous cries of slander on here seem a bit hypocritical at the moment. God help anyone in your Bishoprick elder... I think fixit is wiser, he only has 1 wife and zero concubines......... What does that have to do with the price of eggs?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 15:00:11 GMT -5
A pope like figure? No good would come from that. The Apostles were told not to do that when they were arguing who was the "greatest" among them. There should never really be 1 central figure for the whole church except Christ. I tend to agree with that, but they really are doing exactly that with overseers aren't they? I understand that practicality makes it work better to have one person in charge, but it remains to be true that they aren't doing what Jesus told his apostles. He basically was saying they were all equal in that statement. However, I imagine that it's just one of those feel good statements and there really were apostles with more of a standing with different jobs. Someone took care of the finances for example. As far as I can tell, things are done by consensus or a democratic vote among everyone in clergy. There is not a single individual in charge of making "rules" and "edicts" etc..etc..
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 19, 2023 15:05:07 GMT -5
Well, this is another case where I would say... it's complicated. Dale is a super smart guy. I never confirmed this for myself, but 2X2 legend was always that he received the gold medal for his year (Engineering degree) at the U of S. That is no small achievement. He is a good Saskatchewan farm boy, as are a few of his appointees. (In the AB Oil Industry, employers always expressed hiring preferences for SK farm boys, knowing that they epitomized grounding and practicality and decency.) Listening to Dale playing the piano is a very informative experience. He plays with a timing and a precision that is, well...mathematical. Extremely mathematical. Nothing flows, but nothing is ever wrong either. When I posted earlier about workers being extremely conscious of using our resources when we were young and poor, Dale tops the list. When I posted earlier about overseer positions (from my observations) being extremely political, Dale is pretty close to the top of that list as well. I agree that Dale does not come out of the Alberta fiasco unscathed. But, in his defense, when the AB friends first contacted him, I think he sympathized with them and his heart was in the right place. Subsequent actions might have been, well, a little more political. (For snow, Dale was the one with Stanley Sharpe in his final days of treatment, etc... I know that Dale had to learn a lot from then, but whether he was able to take it onboard is another question.) Sigh. Everything in this situation of the handling CSA/SA in the 2x2's is such a mess. And I know that Dale bears some responsibility in it. But, if anyone was to pull a rabbit out of a hat at this late date, I would put my money on Dale. I was never a worker fan girl, even when I was a member. Never liked them much. Still, Dale is one (of less than a handful), that I would still have a cup of coffee with.
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Post by chuck on Apr 19, 2023 16:02:31 GMT -5
I think fixit is wiser, he only has 1 wife and zero concubines......... What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Your derogatory comments about fixit are unfounded outside of your religious yard stick.....
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Post by fixit on Apr 19, 2023 16:55:54 GMT -5
Well, this is another case where I would say... it's complicated. Dale is a super smart guy. I never confirmed this for myself, but 2X2 legend was always that he received the gold medal for his year (Engineering degree) at the U of S. That is no small achievement. He is a good Saskatchewan farm boy, as are a few of his appointees. (In the AB Oil Industry, employers always expressed hiring preferences for SK farm boys, knowing that they epitomized grounding and practicality and decency.) Listening to Dale playing the piano is a very informative experience. He plays with a timing and a precision that is, well...mathematical. Extremely mathematical. Nothing flows, but nothing is ever wrong either. When I posted earlier about workers being extremely conscious of using our resources when we were young and poor, Dale tops the list. When I posted earlier about overseer positions (from my observations) being extremely political, Dale is pretty close to the top of that list as well. I agree that Dale does not come out of the Alberta fiasco unscathed. But, in his defense, when the AB friends first contacted him, I think he sympathized with them and his heart was in the right place. Subsequent actions might have been, well, a little more political. (For snow, Dale was the one with Stanley Sharpe in his final days of treatment, etc... I know that Dale had to learn a lot from then, but whether he was able to take it onboard is another question.) Sigh. Everything in this situation of the handling CSA/SA in the 2x2's is such a mess. And I know that Dale bears some responsibility in it. But, if anyone was to pull a rabbit out of a hat at this late date, I would put my money on Dale. I was never a worker fan girl, even when I was a member. Never liked them much. Still, Dale is one (of less than a handful), that I would still have a cup of coffee with. There's politics in every organisation, and the religious kind is no exception. As a business guru used to say: "Take a look at the system, and leave the people alone". Meaning that blaming the people without fixing the system is not going to solve the problem.
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Post by snow on Apr 19, 2023 17:43:24 GMT -5
I tend to agree with that, but they really are doing exactly that with overseers aren't they? I understand that practicality makes it work better to have one person in charge, but it remains to be true that they aren't doing what Jesus told his apostles. He basically was saying they were all equal in that statement. However, I imagine that it's just one of those feel good statements and there really were apostles with more of a standing with different jobs. Someone took care of the finances for example. Like this? Acts 6:1 Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, the Hellenists murmured against the Hebrews because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. 2 And the twelve summoned the body of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And what they said pleased the whole multitude, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Proch′orus, and Nica′nor, and Timon, and Par′menas, and Nicola′us, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them. Yes, as I said practicality prevailed. I was responding to wally's post about no man being above another. But in the real world that rarely works.
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Post by snow on Apr 19, 2023 17:46:44 GMT -5
Well, this is another case where I would say... it's complicated. Dale is a super smart guy. I never confirmed this for myself, but 2X2 legend was always that he received the gold medal for his year (Engineering degree) at the U of S. That is no small achievement. He is a good Saskatchewan farm boy, as are a few of his appointees. (In the AB Oil Industry, employers always expressed hiring preferences for SK farm boys, knowing that they epitomized grounding and practicality and decency.) Listening to Dale playing the piano is a very informative experience. He plays with a timing and a precision that is, well...mathematical. Extremely mathematical. Nothing flows, but nothing is ever wrong either. When I posted earlier about workers being extremely conscious of using our resources when we were young and poor, Dale tops the list. When I posted earlier about overseer positions (from my observations) being extremely political, Dale is pretty close to the top of that list as well. I agree that Dale does not come out of the Alberta fiasco unscathed. But, in his defense, when the AB friends first contacted him, I think he sympathized with them and his heart was in the right place. Subsequent actions might have been, well, a little more political. (For snow, Dale was the one with Stanley Sharpe in his final days of treatment, etc... I know that Dale had to learn a lot from then, but whether he was able to take it onboard is another question.) Sigh. Everything in this situation of the handling CSA/SA in the 2x2's is such a mess. And I know that Dale bears some responsibility in it. But, if anyone was to pull a rabbit out of a hat at this late date, I would put my money on Dale. I was never a worker fan girl, even when I was a member. Never liked them much. Still, Dale is one (of less than a handful), that I would still have a cup of coffee with. Thanks for that SharonArnold. I sure did love Stanley Sharpe. I'm glad he was cared for in his final days.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 19, 2023 19:27:55 GMT -5
Any way you look at it, you have to respect the giant brass balls that he seems to have. Very much resembling those in the New Testament like Peter. 'After Dale Shultz became a Western US Overseer in 2005, he began "cleaning house". In 2013, he "reached out" to some D&R wives about separating from their husbands. He held up as examples three 2x2 women who chose to "make it right" by separating. Further, he mentioned that "God took care of it" for a fourth D&R wife whose husband died suddenly before they separated, perhaps inferring a warning that D&Rs who do not separate may experience dire consequences' - Kropp, Cherie. Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and It's Founder, William Irvine. 2022.
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Post by fixit on Apr 19, 2023 20:27:40 GMT -5
Any way you look at it, you have to respect the giant brass balls that he seems to have. Very much resembling those in the New Testament like Peter. 'After Dale Shultz became a Western US Overseer in 2005, he began "cleaning house". In 2013, he "reached out" to some D&R wives about separating from their husbands. He held up as examples three 2x2 women who chose to "make it right" by separating. Further, he mentioned that "God took care of it" for a fourth D&R wife whose husband died suddenly before they separated, perhaps inferring a warning that D&Rs who do not separate may experience dire consequences' - Kropp, Cherie. Preserving the Truth: The Church without a Name and It's Founder, William Irvine. 2022. Has anyone heard D&R policy preached about? I don't recall having heard a satisfactory scriptural reason for D&R couples being denied fellowship.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 21:17:45 GMT -5
What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Your derogatory comments about fixit are unfounded outside of your religious yard stick..... I know the truth is painful for some of you downunder types but suck it up...
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