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Post by Pragmatic on May 28, 2023 19:10:32 GMT -5
I well recall Harry Brownlee at Ngaere convention on a visit to this country, in his sermon suggesting to someone that "instead of a particular type of painting on their wall, what about a photograph of the workers on the piano?" To me that was encouraging idolatry. Of course a Michelangelo or Da Vinci art piece depicting those times, or the Last Supper, would be a no no.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 28, 2023 19:14:14 GMT -5
I well recall Harry Brownlee at Ngaere convention on a visit to this country, in his sermon suggesting to someone that "instead of a particular type of painting on their wall, what about a photograph of the workers on the piano?" To me that was encouraging idolatry. Of course a Michelangelo or Da Vinci art piece depicting those times, or the Last Supper, would be a no no. What year did Brownlee visit Ngaere?
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Post by Pragmatic on May 28, 2023 19:16:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure exactly, as those years seem blurred into one, and I was not a notebook type of person. My mother inlaw was, and we went over it with her last year, but after she passed, all those things got biffed, as we don't read shorthand! It is going back a bit though.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 28, 2023 21:56:20 GMT -5
I well recall Harry Brownlee at Ngaere convention on a visit to this country, in his sermon suggesting to someone that "instead of a particular type of painting on their wall, what about a photograph of the workers on the piano?" To me that was encouraging idolatry. Of course a Michelangelo or Da Vinci art piece depicting those times, or the Last Supper, would be a no no. In the meeting I used to go to, they advertised the sale of the annual workers' picture after Sunday morning meetings. The larger the print, the higher the price.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 22:42:42 GMT -5
I well recall Harry Brownlee at Ngaere convention on a visit to this country, in his sermon suggesting to someone that "instead of a particular type of painting on their wall, what about a photograph of the workers on the piano?" To me that was encouraging idolatry. Of course a Michelangelo or Da Vinci art piece depicting those times, or the Last Supper, would be a no no. In the meeting I used to go to, they advertised the sale of the annual workers' picture after Sunday morning meetings. The larger the print, the higher the price. Here they are provided at no charge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 1:59:01 GMT -5
In the meeting I used to go to, they advertised the sale of the annual workers' picture after Sunday morning meetings. The larger the print, the higher the price. Here they are provided at no charge. We have never been charged for a worker picture either...
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jf
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Post by jf on May 29, 2023 2:46:25 GMT -5
I well recall Harry Brownlee at Ngaere convention on a visit to this country, in his sermon suggesting to someone that "instead of a particular type of painting on their wall, what about a photograph of the workers on the piano?" To me that was encouraging idolatry. Of course a Michelangelo or Da Vinci art piece depicting those times, or the Last Supper, would be a no no. What year did Brownlee visit Ngaere? 1984
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 29, 2023 3:38:06 GMT -5
What year did Brownlee visit Ngaere? 1984 Thanks, do you know who the visiting American workers were in the late 90's, perhaps 96, 97, 98 or 99?
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Post by haggard on May 29, 2023 6:25:25 GMT -5
with all due respect,,its only fair that we use thier pics as screen savers...just to remind us of the new age definition of truth
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Post by haggard on May 29, 2023 6:29:32 GMT -5
we have a pic of Willis Propp and Merlin Howllet they have that million dollar smile...l think they just checked thier master card account
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Post by snow on May 29, 2023 12:01:00 GMT -5
I have an album of worker pictures that my mother put together. All of these would be before 2005. There is one in it that I really value and that's a picture of Stanley Lee and Stanley Sharpe when they were companions in Winnipeg in the 60's.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 29, 2023 14:27:50 GMT -5
The friends will be needing a new calander. 2023 will now be AD 0. (after Dean)
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 29, 2023 16:35:45 GMT -5
with all due respect,,its only fair that we use thier pics as screen savers...just to remind us of the new age definition of truth Still have to pay for them here . I need a new dart 🎯 board
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 29, 2023 16:39:28 GMT -5
with all due respect,,its only fair that we use thier pics as screen savers...just to remind us of the new age definition of truth Still have to pay for them here . I need a new dart 🎯 board When i am reminded of the workers this verse comes to mind. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
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Post by ForeverFree on May 29, 2023 19:24:03 GMT -5
I have an album of worker pictures that my mother put together. All of these would be before 2005. There is one in it that I really value and that's a picture of Stanley Lee and Stanley Sharpe when they were companions in Winnipeg in the 60's. Is Stanley Lee related to Saskatchewan's Sid Lee? He was put out of the work a number of years ago and was not allowed to attend fellowship meetings, but did attend some gospel meetings.
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2023 20:21:58 GMT -5
I have an album of worker pictures that my mother put together. All of these would be before 2005. There is one in it that I really value and that's a picture of Stanley Lee and Stanley Sharpe when they were companions in Winnipeg in the 60's. Aah, a rare and valuable photo of "The Stanleys"! Top of the Pops, back then
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Post by snow on May 30, 2023 13:01:27 GMT -5
I have an album of worker pictures that my mother put together. All of these would be before 2005. There is one in it that I really value and that's a picture of Stanley Lee and Stanley Sharpe when they were companions in Winnipeg in the 60's. Is Stanley Lee related to Saskatchewan's Sid Lee? He was put out of the work a number of years ago and was not allowed to attend fellowship meetings, but did attend some gospel meetings. Yes he was Stanley's Lee's brother. It was his brother along with Stanley Sharpe that made that call I believe. That was pretty unheard of back then.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 30, 2023 15:29:47 GMT -5
I try not to pull out all the pictures my parents had . Gives me nightmares
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Post by ForeverFree on May 30, 2023 20:44:38 GMT -5
Is Stanley Lee related to Saskatchewan's Sid Lee? He was put out of the work a number of years ago and was not allowed to attend fellowship meetings, but did attend some gospel meetings. Yes he was Stanley's Lee's brother. It was his brother along with Stanley Sharpe that made that call I believe. That was pretty unheard of back then. I don't know when it (or what) happened, but while I was still in meetings 30 odd years ago I asked, but it was all hush hush. A long history and culture of "don't ask, don't tell".
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Post by snow on May 30, 2023 21:15:51 GMT -5
Yes he was Stanley's Lee's brother. It was his brother along with Stanley Sharpe that made that call I believe. That was pretty unheard of back then. I don't know when it (or what) happened, but while I was still in meetings 30 odd years ago I asked, but it was all hush hush. A long history and culture of "don't ask, don't tell". I never went to meetings after I left home in 1973 so I wasn't around for whatever happened and my parents never talked about it with me if they knew. Another poster on here is the one that said that the Stanley's handled it better than to be expected back then because they did more than a surface investigation and they did make sure he wasn't a worker after that. I don't know anything more than what was posted on here.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 31, 2023 18:48:58 GMT -5
I don't know when it (or what) happened, but while I was still in meetings 30 odd years ago I asked, but it was all hush hush. A long history and culture of "don't ask, don't tell". I never went to meetings after I left home in 1973 so I wasn't around for whatever happened and my parents never talked about it with me if they knew. Another poster on here is the one that said that the Stanley's handled it better than to be expected back then because they did more than a surface investigation and they did make sure he wasn't a worker after that. I don't know anything more than what was posted on here. If you do a search for Stanley Lee and Syd Lee, you can find some of the threads where this situation was previously discussed. Here are links to a few posts: professing.proboards.com/post/468376professing.proboards.com/post/489612professing.proboards.com/post/489629To my knowledge, the situation was handled quite well for the day and the time. Of course, according to today's standards, it would have been poorly handled where the law was concerned. I do not know when mandated reporting came into effect, but I do know it was not on the radar screen at the time. There was a bit of a sentiment of relief expressed among the friends that it had not come to the attention of any of the newspapers. As well, had Syd been willing to "repent", we do not know if he would have been quietly moved to another geographic location in keeping with patterns established elsewhere. Stanley Lee probably did not handle much of the situation. He was so distraught that such a thing could have happened, especially involving his own brother. It compromised his own mental state to such a degree that he really wasn't capable of leadership after. The only criticism regarding the situation that I have ever come across was from Edgar, referenced in the above posts.
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Post by matisse on May 31, 2023 19:56:04 GMT -5
Moving towards 'Throwback Thursday', (at least in the Eastern USA). Whatever happened to Graham Thompson?
I read his letters recently, carefully, for this ADHD brain. All kinds of wisdom and heartbreaking insight, IMO.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 31, 2023 20:16:50 GMT -5
Moving towards 'Throwback Thursday', (at least in the Eastern USA). Whatever happened to Graham Thompson? I read his letters recently, carefully, for this ADHD brain. All kinds of wisdom and heartbreaking insight, IMO. I believe he is still in the church, and holding down a job in the South Island. Others may know more, and be able to PM you.
While I sympathised with what he was saying, I believe that his health suffered as a result of inaction by the oversight, and he tended to put things in writing that were better not said. If I had an employee writing things to and about me in the same vein, I would fire that employee. He isn't to be blamed however, as the situation in NSW was simply terrible, and he was the "voice crying in the wilderness".
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Post by fixit on May 31, 2023 21:27:03 GMT -5
Moving towards 'Throwback Thursday', (at least in the Eastern USA). Whatever happened to Graham Thompson? I read his letters recently, carefully, for this ADHD brain. All kinds of wisdom and heartbreaking insight, IMO. I believe he is still in the church, and holding down a job in the South Island. Others may know more, and be able to PM you. While I sympathised with what he was saying, I believe that his health suffered as a result of inaction by the oversight, and he tended to put things in writing that were better not said. If I had an employee writing things to and about me in the same vein, I would fire that employee. He isn't to be blamed however, as the situation in NSW was simply terrible, and he was the "voice crying in the wilderness".
It's not a typical employer - employee situation though is it? Graham got a job driving a refrigerated truck (no doubt a much easier employer/employee relationship), bought his own house and got on with life. No doubt the stress took its toll but it seems he got out soon enough to avoid becoming a shivering wreck like some. He's a man of integrity.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 31, 2023 21:42:30 GMT -5
I believe he is still in the church, and holding down a job in the South Island. Others may know more, and be able to PM you. While I sympathised with what he was saying, I believe that his health suffered as a result of inaction by the oversight, and he tended to put things in writing that were better not said. If I had an employee writing things to and about me in the same vein, I would fire that employee. He isn't to be blamed however, as the situation in NSW was simply terrible, and he was the "voice crying in the wilderness".
It's not a typical employer - employee situation though is it? Graham got a job driving a refrigerated truck (no doubt a much easier employer/employee relationship), bought his own house and got on with life. No doubt the stress took its toll but it seems he got out soon enough to avoid becoming a shivering wreck like some. He's a man of integrity. I agree. I talked to him not long before it all blew up, and he was genuinely weighted down with burden of it all.
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Post by fixit on May 31, 2023 22:00:50 GMT -5
I talked to him not long before it all blew up, and he was genuinely weighted down with burden of it all. Actually it was going on for a number of years before Graham resigned in Jan 2014. professing.proboards.com/thread/21634/shame-graham-thompson-leaves-workIn November 2011 Graham issued an open letter to Brothers and Sisters in Christ. In it he quoted from some of his previous correspondence, including the following from a 2007 written statement that was forwarded to the overseers in New Zealand: I do not believe in the administration manifested presently in the eldership system. I do not believe it is part of the Kingdom, nor part of the Gospel. I do not believe it has any foundation in Scripture – not in the word of the Lord nor in any parallel or precedent that can be found in the Apostles’ traditions. I have no confidence in the uprightness of any of the decisions that are being made. I believe the current administration is nothing more than a hierarchical body which pursues a very dubious agenda and it does so by political processes and without the will to do what pleases God alone.
I have come to the place where I have no allegiance or loyalty to, nor any trust in nor respect for the administration system. In fact, I feel that the only way I can preach the Gospel without making a hypocrite of myself is to denounce the eldership system completely. This is because not only does it not fit in to the standard of Truth in Jesus; it is in fact at enmity with it.In early 2008 the following statement was written to the overseers of the Ministry in the Australian states and New Zealand; I believe that the sickness in the eldership is the most serious factor affecting the health of the Fellowship today, and that it is also the greatest threat to the future of the Fellowship. In your pride, and blindness of self-delusion, you have given yourselves such a place that you obviously feel you can act with wanton disregard for the Word of God, the principles of sound judgment, and the spirit of the brotherhood. This place which you claim for yourselves is one which our Lord Jesus never took Himself – and straitly commanded His disciples never to take. You have set yourselves on a throne upon which God alone should be seated, and – not content only to rule over the Lord’s heritage – you even desire and demand that you be worshipped.
The most recent communication to the New Zealand overseer on the matter carries the observation that "Your administration system (note that I write not in reference to the true Ministry of Jesus Christ, but to you who separate yourselves and make yourselves an upper echelon above the servants of God) exhibits very strong elements of cultism, and many of the characteristics of false religion."
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Post by snow on Jun 1, 2023 12:58:00 GMT -5
I never went to meetings after I left home in 1973 so I wasn't around for whatever happened and my parents never talked about it with me if they knew. Another poster on here is the one that said that the Stanley's handled it better than to be expected back then because they did more than a surface investigation and they did make sure he wasn't a worker after that. I don't know anything more than what was posted on here. If you do a search for Stanley Lee and Syd Lee, you can find some of the threads where this situation was previously discussed. Here are links to a few posts: professing.proboards.com/post/468376professing.proboards.com/post/489612professing.proboards.com/post/489629To my knowledge, the situation was handled quite well for the day and the time. Of course, according to today's standards, it would have been poorly handled where the law was concerned. I do not know when mandated reporting came into effect, but I do know it was not on the radar screen at the time. There was a bit of a sentiment of relief expressed among the friends that it had not come to the attention of any of the newspapers. As well, had Syd been willing to "repent", we do not know if he would have been quietly moved to another geographic location in keeping with patterns established elsewhere. Stanley Lee probably did not handle much of the situation. He was so distraught that such a thing could have happened, especially involving his own brother. It compromised his own mental state to such a degree that he really wasn't capable of leadership after. The only criticism regarding the situation that I have ever come across was from Edgar, referenced in the above posts. Thank you so much Sharon. I will definitely take a look at these. Edit: Having read them I feel like it was handled pretty good for the time. I feel sorry for what it did to Stanley Lee. He was a pretty passionate worker and his sermons often were very indicative of that. I professed through Stanley Lee and knew him well. He tended to be very serious and to a young kid like me, a little grumpy, but he had a really soft side too. I was glad I got to see that side of him when he visited because I had initially been kind of scared of him.
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Post by Admin on Jun 5, 2023 18:53:51 GMT -5
Recent Workers' communication with FriendsFrom: Peggy Jansen Date: May 1, 2023 at 11:26:05 AM CDT To: Peggy Jansen, Leah Klepzig Dear Friends, In general, this is a letter Matt [Jensen] has sent to us to send to the friends in our fields. You will find three attachments included in this letter. The first document is self-explanatory. The second document is somewhat of an appendix to the first, detailing contact information within Illinois and Indiana, rather than Washington State. The third contains more Child Sexual Assault information. Due to the inappropriate behavior of some people in some other states, our attention has been brought again to the subject of child abuse within our fellowship. I feel like it would be beneficial to write to you about this subject. Some people have wondered what the workers in Illinois and Indiana are doing to make ourselves more aware of this subject. All of the workers in the Eastern States and Provinces are required to take the MinistrySafe Awareness Training every two years. This has been done for over ten years. Most of the active Illinois/Indiana workers took the training again this past February, and as of April 25, all the active workers in Illinois/Indiana have completed the training. In addition to MinistrySafe training, some workers attended a sensitivity meeting approximately ten to twelve years ago. Appropriate, interpersonal boundaries were discussed. The gleanings were shared with all the staffs in the Eastern States and Provinces. Some of the workers have also attended multi-hour workshops to better understand our responsibilities as reporters of abuse and neglect. Child abuse of any nature is a crime. Clergy are mandated reporters in the state of Illinois. Everyone is a mandated reporter in Indiana. It is against the law to not report, if there is a reasonable cause to suspect. Reporting can seem daunting, but the goal is that victims would get help as soon as possible. The other goal is that the behavior of the perpetrator would be stopped, and that they would also get professional help. We encourage you to read and understand the attached documents. We encourage you to take the MinistrySafe Awareness Training. We encourage parents to take the MinistrySafe Parent Training. We encourage you to understand your role in reporting abuse. I believe awareness will foster a safer environment for all, and will minimize the risk of this happening. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to any of us on the Illinois and Indiana staff. Please honor my request that you not forward this email, nor the attachments electronically. Please do not share this message on social media platforms. If you wish to verbally share what is written here, feel free. If you wish to print the attached documents and share them that way, feel free. And the workers in both Indiana and Illinois will be sharing these documents with those in their fields. Peggy Jansen [Address redacted] Wilmette,IL 60091 [Phone redacted]
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