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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 14:44:24 GMT -5
Paul perverted Jesus gospel imo. Jesus was about love and acceptance of others etc. Paul was the opposite. He divided Christians, he said many hateful things and was totally against women and their rights. Jesus was for women and their rights. I often think it's really too bad that the Pauline mindset is the one that made it into mainstream Christianity instead of Jesus version. ** Pauline doctrines are from Christ Jesus himself. Christ gave John the apostle, Paul a clear understanding of the Godhead/Triune God so, they could share it with the world. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Luke, John Mark and those lime them whom God and Christ raised up to encourage the 12 apostle to let go of Moses Old Testament laws, animals rituals sacrifices and so on and have their faith and trust in Christ Jesus who SAVES us and NOT by obeying Moses Old Testament books of laws, which couldn't SAVE anyone who practices. In Acts 15 the 12 apostles, Paul, Barnabas, the church elders in Jerusalem came together to discuss of the problem about some were teachings for the Gentiles to be SAVED they must keep some of Moses teachings also. Paul and Barnabas disagreed with them, Peter and James agree with Paul's understanding! It's Faith in Christ Jesus SAVES and NOT observing Moses laws. It seems to me the believers in Rome in Paul's days did NOT want to keep observing the Laws of Moses and many of the Old testament rituals, the New testament teachings of Jesus and they many pagans religions practices within the way of their worship... Eventually they became known in the 3rd century as the Rome Catholic Church. In Rome there were a group of believers Christians, they were Paul's converts/followers opposed where the RCC were doing and heading in the WRONG path. These true believers wanted to follow Christ Jesus New Testament pattern and apostolic ministry. By the end of the 4th century Paul's followers were chased out of Rome and they went to Alps valley mountain near France, they became known as the Vaudois. They and those like them scattered throughout Europe and continued preaching Christ Jesus New Testament teachings and the apostolic ministry like we read in the gospel of Matthew 10 and Luke 10. The RCC sent their own army and crusade to wipe them out from the face of the earth for over 1500 years. This history was foretold by John the apostle in Rev. Chapters 11,12, and 13. Paul never got anything from Jesus. The world would be much better if Jesus teachings vs Paul's teachings were the ones that Christianity followed. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 14:47:26 GMT -5
Paul perverted Jesus gospel imo. Jesus was about love and acceptance of others etc. Paul was the opposite. He divided Christians, he said many hateful things and was totally against women and their rights. Jesus was for women and their rights. I often think it's really too bad that the Pauline mindset is the one that made it into mainstream Christianity instead of Jesus version. Funny how 2 people can read the same books and come away with a completely different impression. To me, Paul was no different than Jesus, he just elaborated on what Jesus taught and didn't introduce a different version. I don't recall anything hateful against women.
You don't find him telling women to shut up in church hateful? Jesus supported women, actually telling them things he didn't tell his male apostles. Paul told women to go home and ask their husbands to explain, like they were second tier citizens that should be seen but not heard. That's one example of the difference between Jesus and Paul. |
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 14:48:59 GMT -5
It’s a long running superstition of mankind that he can do or say something to gain eternal life. To be sure, they’re related, but it’s best to rest the question over salvation on God. It minimizes or eliminates conflicts of interest regarding inquiries into the truth. I’m fine with this letting God decide were it not for the threat of eternal torture. That’s just cruelty. Like “ya- just do your best. But if you get it wrong I’ll torture you forever in the worst ways imaginable”. ** The Lake of fire/Separation from God's presence forever, was a place prepared by God to Punish Satan and 1/3 of the fallen angels who by their own free will and choosing to rebel and fight against God, Christ and 3/4 of the angels in heaven. In the garden of Eden, God had told Adam and Eve if they choose to serve Satan/the forbidden fruit as their god and master then they will DIE as mortal beings and end up in the same lake of fire with him for eternity. Today, God and Christ offer mankind similar choice if people choose to partake the tree of life/Accepting Jesus as your Savior then God will Restore our Immoral Spirit of Christ So, we/believerd can rule and reign with Him for 1000 years and live forever with God. If we reject Jesus/the tree of eternal life then we will end up in the same lake of fire with Satan. People join Satan in the lake of fire by choice when they say NO! To Jesus as their Savior, Christ died for our sins on Calvary so we can LIVE forever with God. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 14:50:56 GMT -5
It’s a long running superstition of mankind that he can do or say something to gain eternal life. To be sure, they’re related, but it’s best to rest the question over salvation on God. It minimizes or eliminates conflicts of interest regarding inquiries into the truth. I’m fine with this letting God decide were it not for the threat of eternal torture. That’s just cruelty. Like “ya- just do your best. But if you get it wrong I’ll torture you forever in the worst ways imaginable”. But he loves you! What parent would torture their kid for eternity for doing something they didn't like? |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Sept 29, 2022 14:55:14 GMT -5
** Pauline doctrines are from Christ Jesus himself. Christ gave John the apostle, Paul a clear understanding of the Godhead/Triune God so, they could share it with the world. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Luke, John Mark and those lime them whom God and Christ raised up to encourage the 12 apostle to let go of Moses Old Testament laws, animals rituals sacrifices and so on and have their faith and trust in Christ Jesus who SAVES us and NOT by obeying Moses Old Testament books of laws, which couldn't SAVE anyone who practices. In Acts 15 the 12 apostles, Paul, Barnabas, the church elders in Jerusalem came together to discuss of the problem about some were teachings for the Gentiles to be SAVED they must keep some of Moses teachings also. Paul and Barnabas disagreed with them, Peter and James agree with Paul's understanding! It's Faith in Christ Jesus SAVES and NOT observing Moses laws. It seems to me the believers in Rome in Paul's days did NOT want to keep observing the Laws of Moses and many of the Old testament rituals, the New testament teachings of Jesus and they many pagans religions practices within the way of their worship... Eventually they became known in the 3rd century as the Rome Catholic Church. In Rome there were a group of believers Christians, they were Paul's converts/followers opposed where the RCC were doing and heading in the WRONG path. These true believers wanted to follow Christ Jesus New Testament pattern and apostolic ministry. By the end of the 4th century Paul's followers were chased out of Rome and they went to Alps valley mountain near France, they became known as the Vaudois. They and those like them scattered throughout Europe and continued preaching Christ Jesus New Testament teachings and the apostolic ministry like we read in the gospel of Matthew 10 and Luke 10. The RCC sent their own army and crusade to wipe them out from the face of the earth for over 1500 years. This history was foretold by John the apostle in Rev. Chapters 11,12, and 13. Paul never got anything from Jesus. The world would be much better if Jesus teachings vs Paul's teachings were the ones that Christianity followed. You need to read the epistle, where he wrote he got the Lord Christ's Communion from His teaching. Paul got the 2x2 apostolic ministry from Jesus, the communion to be held in the homes of believers on Sunday/first day of the week to commemorate his life, death and sacrificed for our sins and the the resurrection of believers. |
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2022 15:02:21 GMT -5
Paul never got anything from Jesus. The world would be much better if Jesus teachings vs Paul's teachings were the ones that Christianity followed. You need to read the epistle, where he wrote he got the Lord Christ's Communion from His teaching. Paul got the 2x2 apostolic ministry from Jesus, the communion to be held in the homes of believers on Sunday/first day of the week to commemorate his life, death and sacrificed for our sins and the the resurrection of believers. I have read the whole bible. The NT more than once. I have studied the history of the bible, the NT etc. I am fully aware of what they say. Paul never got his 2x2 apostolic ministry from Jesus. Jesus sent his apostles out in whatever numbers worked for each mission they were sent on. Paul took bits and pieces of the apostolic message and then added his own ideas. I agree that he was responsible for the way Christianity went. He's the founder of much of what Christians believe today. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 16:51:17 GMT -5
That's not scripture -- that's presupposition. It's eisegesis. Eisegesis brings various ideas or presuppositions together into a coherent, aggregated form that's relatable and understandable. That's called conjecture. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2022 16:54:56 GMT -5
Actually, Bob votes against his own best interests frequently, especially when it will protect the less privileged. There's more pleasure in giving than receiving? Please recall, when I wrote 'best interests', I placed 'best' in quotations. For instance, some people think it's in their "best" interest and society's "best" interest to allow and perform transgender operations on minors. I wish I could recall the founding father quote that used this phrase 'best interest'. It used the word 'best' in a skeptical sense. The idea was that our constitution was designed to restrain people and politicians from despotically ruling and taking advantage of others, even when, and especially when sometimes, they thought they were doing the right thing. The problem is that your interpretation is the traditional "what is best for WASP Americans is best for everyone". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2022 18:14:31 GMT -5
You need to read the epistle, where he wrote he got the Lord Christ's Communion from His teaching. Paul got the 2x2 apostolic ministry from Jesus, the communion to be held in the homes of believers on Sunday/first day of the week to commemorate his life, death and sacrificed for our sins and the the resurrection of believers. I have read the whole bible. The NT more than once. I have studied the history of the bible, the NT etc. I am fully aware of what they say. Paul never got his 2x2 apostolic ministry from Jesus. Jesus sent his apostles out in whatever numbers worked for each mission they were sent on. Paul took bits and pieces of the apostolic message and then added his own ideas. I agree that he was responsible for the way Christianity went. He's the founder of much of what Christians believe today. That is not accurate. From Scripture we know at first the Jesus and his apostles moved around as a group of twelve although there is not a lot of info to say they did or did not separate into pairs to preach. Then Jesus sent out the 70 2x2 and that appears to be his last word on the matter that we go by. For the rest of the NT they went out in 1-2-3-4 I believe, but Paul went more with the 2x2 method. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2022 23:37:23 GMT -5
It’s a long running superstition of mankind that he can do or say something to gain eternal life. To be sure, they’re related, but it’s best to rest the question over salvation on God. It minimizes or eliminates conflicts of interest regarding inquiries into the truth. I’m fine with this letting God decide were it not for the threat of eternal torture. That’s just cruelty. Like “ya- just do your best. But if you get it wrong I’ll torture you forever in the worst ways imaginable”. Im not a fan of the eternal torment teaching. But, I am a fan of teaching consequences. I also believe in the kingdom of heaven, a citizenry with whom every earthling with have an accounting. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2022 23:45:20 GMT -5
There's more pleasure in giving than receiving? Please recall, when I wrote 'best interests', I placed 'best' in quotations. For instance, some people think it's in their "best" interest and society's "best" interest to allow and perform transgender operations on minors. I wish I could recall the founding father quote that used this phrase 'best interest'. It used the word 'best' in a skeptical sense. The idea was that our constitution was designed to restrain people and politicians from despotically ruling and taking advantage of others, even when, and especially when sometimes, they thought they were doing the right thing. The problem is that your interpretation is the traditional "what is best for WASP Americans is best for everyone". WASPs shouldn’t be ashamed of the positives of their culture. Within every culture, there are wheat and tares, and wheat and tare ideas. You’re not into pogroms, are you? We were talking about American governance, and its superior qualities for restraining tyranny. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2022 23:53:46 GMT -5
It's eisegesis. Eisegesis brings various ideas or presuppositions together into a coherent, aggregated form that's relatable and understandable. That's called conjecture. Thats not as cogent a word as eisegesis. If you don’t believe in God, I suppose conjecture is sufficient. It’s like insisting football is a sport, so it should be referred to as “sport”. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 29, 2022 23:56:07 GMT -5
That's called conjecture. Thats not as cogent a word as eisegesis. If you don’t believe in God, I suppose conjecture is sufficient. It’s like insisting football is a sport, so it should be referred to as “sport”. Football is not sport. It is a game that people play. Sports are horse racing, and motor racing and the like. Everything where people play with balls is a game. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 30, 2022 0:06:13 GMT -5
Funny how 2 people can read the same books and come away with a completely different impression. To me, Paul was no different than Jesus, he just elaborated on what Jesus taught and didn't introduce a different version. I don't recall anything hateful against women.
You don't find him telling women to shut up in church hateful? Jesus supported women, actually telling them things he didn't tell his male apostles. Paul told women to go home and ask their husbands to explain, like they were second tier citizens that should be seen but not heard. That's one example of the difference between Jesus and Paul.
Its important to understand that in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul was writing to a disruptive church in Corinth. The meetings were chaos, everyone speaking at once, and in different languages with no interpreters. Paul wrote; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). So Paul told the men to keep quiet prior to telling the women. I believe Paul was trying to encourage an atmosphere of learning instead of confusion. Paul wrote; "Let all things be done unto edifying.. for God is not the author of confusion.. Let all things be done decently and in order" (vs 26,33 & 40). So it seems evident that Paul was trying to eliminate everyone talking at once because the chatter and questions were disruptive. Even today, imagine that if everyone talked at once in a service, the primary speaker could not be heard. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn" (1 Corinthians 14:31).
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 30, 2022 0:10:40 GMT -5
You don't find him telling women to shut up in church hateful? Jesus supported women, actually telling them things he didn't tell his male apostles. Paul told women to go home and ask their husbands to explain, like they were second tier citizens that should be seen but not heard. That's one example of the difference between Jesus and Paul.
Its important to understand that in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul was writing to a disruptive church in Corinth. The meetings were chaos, everyone speaking at once, and in different languages with no interpreters. Paul wrote; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). So Paul told the men to keep quiet prior to telling the women. I believe Paul was trying to encourage an atmosphere of learning instead of confusion. Paul wrote; "Let all things be done unto edifying.. for God is not the author of confusion.. Let all things be done decently and in order" (vs 26,33 & 40). So it seems evident that Paul was trying to eliminate everyone talking at once because the chatter and questions were disruptive. Even today, imagine that if everyone talked at once in a service, the primary speaker could not be heard. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn" (1 Corinthians 14:31).
It is not at all important to understand Corinthians or any other bit of the buybull. If you want to follow the mythology laid out in the buybull then that is fine. When you start insisting your church or your country or other countries be guided by the principles laid out in that pile of bull sh-e then that is not fine. Underrstand the difference. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2022 0:16:32 GMT -5
The problem is that your interpretation is the traditional "what is best for WASP Americans is best for everyone". WASPs shouldn’t be ashamed of the positives of their culture. Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2022 0:21:47 GMT -5
That's called conjecture. Thats not as cogent a word as eisegesis. If you don’t believe in God, I suppose conjecture is sufficient. It’s like insisting football is a sport, so it should be referred to as “sport”. Same thing. On my side the wheel is turning clockwise. On your side it has to be going counterclockwise. Thus we agree it is the exact same thing. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 30, 2022 0:25:55 GMT -5
WASPs shouldn’t be ashamed of the positives of their culture. Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. We were talking about American governance, and its superior qualities for restraining tyranny. [/quote] You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. [/quote] iT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE REMINDED OF WHY THE PURITANS CAME TO THE AMERICAS. THEIR HISTORY TELLS THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF PERSECUTION. WHAT THEY DO NOT TELL YOU IS THAT THEY WERE THE ONES DOING THE PERSECUTING AND THEY WERE TOLD TO QUIT THAT BEHAVIOUR. THEY WENT TO HOLLAND AND TRIED THE SAME TRICK. THEY GOT SHOWN THE EXIT THERE TOO. THEIR TRICKS STILL SEEM TO BE ALIVE AND DOING WELL IN THE USA. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 30, 2022 0:26:28 GMT -5
Its important to understand that in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul was writing to a disruptive church in Corinth. The meetings were chaos, everyone speaking at once, and in different languages with no interpreters. Paul wrote; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). So Paul told the men to keep quiet prior to telling the women. I believe Paul was trying to encourage an atmosphere of learning instead of confusion. Paul wrote; "Let all things be done unto edifying.. for God is not the author of confusion.. Let all things be done decently and in order" (vs 26,33 & 40). So it seems evident that Paul was trying to eliminate everyone talking at once because the chatter and questions were disruptive. Even today, imagine that if everyone talked at once in a service, the primary speaker could not be heard. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn" (1 Corinthians 14:31).
It is not at all important to understand Corinthians or any other bit of the buybull. If you want to follow the mythology laid out in the buybull then that is fine. When you start insisting your church or your country or other countries be guided by the principles laid out in that pile of bull sh-e then that is not fine. Underrstand the difference.
Its very important to understand what your reading. People who have ears to hear but don't listen, understand nothing, i.e; Landing on the moon might seem like mythology, but it becomes a reality when one understands how it was done.
The church in Corinth was established by Paul, so he was fully authorized to guide the parishioners on how to conduct a respectful and productive meeting. Understand the difference? I'm guessing "No" 
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 30, 2022 0:26:54 GMT -5
pARDON MY POSTS AT THE MOMENT. IT SEEMS MY KEYBOARD NEEDS HELP.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 30, 2022 0:28:27 GMT -5
i AM TELLING HISTORY AS IT IS.
NOT WHAT PASSES FOR HISTORY IN THE USA EDUCATIONAL CURRICULUM.
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Post by Lee on Sept 30, 2022 0:28:48 GMT -5
Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. We were talking about American governance, and its superior qualities for restraining tyranny. You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. [/quote] iT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE REMINDED OF WHY THE PURITANS CAME TO THE AMERICAS. THEIR HISTORY TELLS THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF PERSECUTION. WHAT THEY DO NOT TELL YOU IS THAT THEY WERE THE ONES DOING THE PERSECUTING AND THEY WERE TOLD TO QUIT THAT BEHAVIOUR. THEY WENT TO HOLLAND AND TRIED THE SAME TRICK. THEY GOT SHOWN THE EXIT THERE TOO. THEIR TRICKS STILL SEEM TO BE ALIVE AND DOING WELL IN THE USA. [/quote]The puritans weren’t all bad. And you’re not all good. Don’t be a bigot. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 30, 2022 0:29:40 GMT -5
Thats not as cogent a word as eisegesis. If you don’t believe in God, I suppose conjecture is sufficient. It’s like insisting football is a sport, so it should be referred to as “sport”. Same thing. On my side the wheel is turning clockwise. On your side it has to be going counterclockwise. Thus we agree it is the exact same thing. Jesus is not impressed with small talk. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2022 0:33:27 GMT -5
Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. iT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE REMINDED OF WHY THE PURITANS CAME TO THE AMERICAS. THEIR HISTORY TELLS THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF PERSECUTION. WHAT THEY DO NOT TELL YOU IS THAT THEY WERE THE ONES DOING THE PERSECUTING AND THEY WERE TOLD TO QUIT THAT BEHAVIOUR. THEY WENT TO HOLLAND AND TRIED THE SAME TRICK. THEY GOT SHOWN THE EXIT THERE TOO. THEIR TRICKS STILL SEEM TO BE ALIVE AND DOING WELL IN THE USA. The first amendment was designed to control such fanatics. At least the British know how to have a state religion and a secular democracy. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 30, 2022 0:33:30 GMT -5
WASPs shouldn’t be ashamed of the positives of their culture. Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. WASP WASP WASP ……. I’m more into qualities than I’m into culture and race. You should get more into Jesus. The deep state’s playing you for a fool. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 30, 2022 0:35:49 GMT -5
i AM TELLING HISTORY AS IT IS. NOT WHAT PASSES FOR HISTORY IN THE USA EDUCATIONAL CURRICULUM. LOL. America doesn’t teach history any more. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 30, 2022 0:36:54 GMT -5
iT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO BE REMINDED OF WHY THE PURITANS CAME TO THE AMERICAS. THEIR HISTORY TELLS THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF PERSECUTION. WHAT THEY DO NOT TELL YOU IS THAT THEY WERE THE ONES DOING THE PERSECUTING AND THEY WERE TOLD TO QUIT THAT BEHAVIOUR. THEY WENT TO HOLLAND AND TRIED THE SAME TRICK. THEY GOT SHOWN THE EXIT THERE TOO. THEIR TRICKS STILL SEEM TO BE ALIVE AND DOING WELL IN THE USA. The first amendment was designed to control such fanatics. At least the British know how to have a state religion and a secular democracy. Right. A state religion complementary to the deep state. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2022 0:38:44 GMT -5
Of course not. But that doesn't give them title to being the most virtuous. Neither is it a virtue for them to legislate other cultures into submission -- heck, they even marginalized Catholics and Irish immigrants. But you somehow don't accept that non-WASP culture can be as virtuous as yours. I don't consider you racist -- I think you're easily led by xenophobic rhetoric. Minority thinkers and ethnics do not conduct pogroms. You do your fair share of complaining about the American government. But WASP superiority dictates that non-WASPs don't get respected for their complaints. WASP WASP WASP ……. I’m more into qualities than I’m into culture and race. You should get more into Jesus. The deep state’s playing you for a fool. I know what you're into. It's more politics than Jesus. |
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