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Post by nathan02 on Nov 4, 2021 17:57:34 GMT -5
Nathan, in the recent past, on another thread, we briefly discussed these self same passages. I presented THREE independent authorities on youtubes all fully explaining what John 1 is actually saying. Also a full document showing clearly that Jesus is not the word or logos of God. I could present all these again, but you are not interested in engaging properly in these matters. I will discuss things with you word by word, one reference at a time, with genuine dialogue, but I rather suspect you do not want this. You want to dictate. Nathan is right. Always right. But you will not properly engage but rather obfuscate a debate with huge data dumps that kill any prospect of orderly debate. ** They are false and I gave you verses in John 1:1-3 and Rev. 19 where John confirm The God/Logos is Christ's name. John the apostle was the Logos/the Word God Jesus 1st cousin. Both of theirs mothers were sisters. Jesus and John had been raised up together as children. He selected John and James were the inner circle among the 12 apostles. John was Jesus closed and well beloved disciple whom Jesus love. It was Christ/God who brought him in heaven and showed him God the Father and His TRUE identity in the form of God. John the apostle KNOW more about Jesus God the Word/Logos than the 3 guys in your YouTube! |
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Post by Dan on Nov 4, 2021 20:47:38 GMT -5
God's plan is for MANKIND through the MAN Christ Jesus.
It is true that 'fallen' man cannot redeem himself. Adam needed no redemption until after he had sinned. He had a perfect relationship with God. God provided a perfect human being, whom he had raised up and preserved, to be his sacrificial lamb for the redemption of those who would believe in and follow Jesus. Whilst fallen Man cannot redeem himself, we are redeemed through a perfect man if we put our faith and trust in him. God does everything for mankind through his human being son, Jesus.
Can't respond to all you wrote, but I understand how you see it. Yes, Jesus was born flesh and blood, but I believe he descended from heaven, "There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven (John 3:13). God gave His only begotten Son (past tense). He was the Son of God prior to becoming the Son of Man, being conceived by the Holy Spirit.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by" (John 8:56-59). Why do you think the Jews sought to stone him? It wasn't because Jesus was saying that God preceded Abraham, but because he was proclaiming that he did.
We aren't redeemed by a man created 2000 years ago. We are redeemed by the Son of God who willingly stepped down from his throne and became a lowly flesh & blood servant, a sacrifice & Savior.
"Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2021 21:25:04 GMT -5
** The Son/Jesus is God the Christ in heaven! Jesus and God/the Christ are the same being. Ram wrote: Show this from scriptural references and your understanding of same!
Jesus is The Creator: John 1:3 (Jesus)Yahweh is the First and Last: Isa. 41:4 44:6 (Yahweh) Jesus is the First and Last: Rev. 1:17 2:8 & 22:13 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Lord of Lords: Deut. 10:17 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Lord of Lords: 1 Tim. 6:15 (Jesus) Yahweh is the Savior: Isa 45:21 43:11 (Yahweh)
Jesus is the Savior. John 4:42 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Light: Psa. 27:1, Isa. 60: 19-20 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Light. John 1:1-9 & 8:12 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Shepherd: Ps. 23:1 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Shepherd: John 10:11 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Glory of God: Isa. 42:8 48:11 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Glory of God: John 17:1, 5 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Redeemer: Isa. 41:14, Jer. 50:34, (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Redeemer: Rev. 5:9 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Rock: Ps. 18:2 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4 (Jesus) Yahweh is the Creator of angels: Psa. 148:5 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Creator of Angels: Col. 1:16 (Jesus) Yahweh is The I AM: Ex. 3:14 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The I AM: John 8:58 18:5,6 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Bridegroom: Isa. 62:5 Hosea 2:16 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Bridegroom: Rev. 21: 2, Matt. 25:11 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Judge: Joel 3:12 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Judge: John 5:27 Matt. 25:31-46 (Jesus) Yahweh is The Forgiver of sins: Jere. 31:34 (Yahweh)
Jesus is The Forgiver of sins: Mark 2:7, 10 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Holy One: Isa. 43:3 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Holy One: Acts 3:14 (Jesus) Both Raised the dead: 1 Sam2:6 (Yahweh) John 5:21 (Jesus) Both were Worshiped by angels: Ps. 148:2 (Yahweh) Heb. 1:6 (Jesus) Both are confessed as LORD - Every knee is going to bow and every tongue confess Isa. 45:21-23 (Yahweh); Phil2:9-11 (Jesus)
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Post by reborn on Nov 4, 2021 21:30:41 GMT -5
Can't respond to all you wrote, but I understand how you see it. Yes, Jesus was born flesh and blood, but I believe he descended from heaven, "There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven (John 3:13). God gave His only begotten Son (past tense). He was the Son of God prior to becoming the Son of Man, being conceived by the Holy Spirit.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by" (John 8:56-59). Why do you think the Jews sought to stone him? It wasn't because Jesus was saying that God preceded Abraham, but because he was proclaiming that he did.
We aren't redeemed by a man created 2000 years ago. We are redeemed by the Son of God who willingly stepped down from his throne and became a lowly flesh & blood servant, a sacrifice & Savior.
"Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
Yes!! In John - Jesus said unto them; ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. Christ Divine! I wonder if this was the verse that came to Thomas mind- Isaiah 12:12- Behold God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. |
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Post by reborn on Nov 4, 2021 22:00:50 GMT -5
Only Begotten! Think of Jesus birth- was not a normal human conception at all. When Jesus came into the world even the Angels of heaven sang! God's only begotten human being Son. A very special birth through whom God would offer salvation to the world. A special birth that meant God was with us (through his human being son). Adam was not a normal human conception either. Nor Eve. Like all births, creations, they are miracles of God. John the Baptist told the Pharisees that God could raise up children to Abraham from a pile of stones. God does the impossible. This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. The first man was created BY THE LAST ONE! |
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Post by verna on Nov 4, 2021 22:06:27 GMT -5
God's only begotten human being Son. A very special birth through whom God would offer salvation to the world. A special birth that meant God was with us (through his human being son). Adam was not a normal human conception either. Nor Eve. Like all births, creations, they are miracles of God. John the Baptist told the Pharisees that God could raise up children to Abraham from a pile of stones. God does the impossible. This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. The first man was created BY THE LAST ONE! What? No idea what you’re talking about. |
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Post by reborn on Nov 4, 2021 22:08:18 GMT -5
This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. The first man was created BY THE LAST ONE! What? No idea what you’re talking about. This truth is found in 1 Corinthians 15:45 |
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2021 22:52:12 GMT -5
What? No idea what you’re talking about. This truth is found in 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
ASV: So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. AMP So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life]. AMPC Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]. So it is also written, The first human, Adam, became a living person, and the last Adam became a spirit that gives life. CEV The first man was named Adam, and the Scriptures tell us that he was a living person. But Jesus, who may be called the last Adam, is a life-giving spirit. |
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2021 23:02:52 GMT -5
This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. The first man/Adam was created BY THE LAST ONE/Christ God! What? No idea what you’re talking about.
~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God
I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him. I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind. It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me. I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.
Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you! It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me. Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me. Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.” Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen! You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact. © Dr. Frank E. Stranges |
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Post by mountain on Nov 5, 2021 10:21:28 GMT -5
God's only begotten human being Son. A very special birth through whom God would offer salvation to the world. A special birth that meant God was with us (through his human being son). Adam was not a normal human conception either. Nor Eve. Like all births, creations, they are miracles of God. John the Baptist told the Pharisees that God could raise up children to Abraham from a pile of stones. God does the impossible. 1) This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. 2) The first man was created BY THE LAST ONE! The first part of the above is correct. The second part is false and originates in human imagination - not revelation!. Peter tells us exactly how Jesus is the quickening spirit. As part of his power and authority in Heaven and Earth, ruling on behalf of his Heavenly Father, Jesus received the Holy Ghost which he sends to his followers. This is the quickening Spirit. Acts 2 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. |
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Post by nathan02 on Nov 5, 2021 13:57:17 GMT -5
1) This is deep- The first man Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit. 2) The first man was created BY THE LAST ONE! The first part of the above is correct. The second part is false and originates in human imagination - not revelation!. Peter tells us exactly how Jesus is the quickening spirit. As part of his power and authority in Heaven and Earth, ruling on behalf of his Heavenly Father, Jesus received the Holy Ghost which he sends to his followers. This is the quickening Spirit. Acts 2 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. *** Stop fighting and kicking against the electric fence! With your bare feet, Ram. You only make a fool out of yourself. Jesus is the Son of God and God the Christ are ONE Being or Person. This is the Order Christ/God the Creator of the Universe! Came down from heaven to die for our sins on Calvary's in the person Jesus the Son of man. Therefore, Christ has become God and Man/Jesus. He was/is God/Yahweh BEFORE he incarnate in the person Jesus to die as a man for the man Adam, Eve, and their mortal humans children sins. |
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Post by mountain on Nov 5, 2021 14:50:51 GMT -5
Can't respond to all you wrote, but I understand how you see it. Yes, Jesus was born flesh and blood, but I believe he descended from heaven, "There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven (John 3:13). God gave His only begotten Son (past tense). He was the Son of God prior to becoming the Son of Man, being conceived by the Holy Spirit.
The human being Son of God, Jesus, did not exist until he was conceived in the womb of Mary, other than in the mind and plan of God since before the World began. What we must ask ourselves is....'what or who descended from Heaven?' Clearly it was not the only begotten human being Son of God, Jesus. Jesus tells us that of himself he is nothing. Only God is good and that all that Jesus said and did were his Father's (God's) words and deeds. Every time Jesus referred to God, he meant the Father and vice versa, Only God is the Father and only the Father is God.
So, what came down from Heaven? Jesus was a prepared vessel to receive his Father's Spirit. Jesus denied himself and his own will daily to allow God to control his life and express himself to the World. The human Jesus became an empty cup into which God the Father poured his spirit without measure. This is what people saw as the human being Jesus. An earthly vessel containing the spirit of God. It is the Holy Spirit of God which came down from Heaven and it is this which ascended. This is what people don't understand or grasp.
Jesus told the Pharisees that he was from above because his Father was God, whilst the Pharisees were from below because their Father was the Devil. This doe not mean that Jesus himself literally came down from Heaven or the Pharisees literally ascended from below (Hell). It is what controls a person which determines where they came from.
Jesus tells us that except a man be born from above he can in no way see the Kingdom of God, nor can they enter the Kingdom of God. He also told his disciples they were not of this world but were from above, in the same context as he was from above.
What came down from above was that which controlled Jesus's life. This applies to every true follower of Christ.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by" (John 8:56-59). Why do you think the Jews sought to stone him? It wasn't because Jesus was saying that God preceded Abraham, but because he was proclaiming that he did. I presented Nathan with three separate youtubes by far better scholars than I , all giving a perfectly understandable explanation for this. If you wish me to repost them I will. Actually the Jews sought to stone Jesus not because he said he preceded Abraham, but because they believed he was claiming to be God. Jesus didn't claim to be God, he claimed to be the son of God. Jesus existed in the mind and plan of God from the beginning. He was the Messiah to be. Abraham rejoiced to see his (the Messiah's day) in the future. Basically what Jesus was saying was 'I am he to be' or I am the Messiah.We aren't redeemed by a man created 2000 years ago. We are redeemed by the Son of God who willingly stepped down from his throne and became a lowly flesh & blood servant, a sacrifice & Savior.
And you can support your belief with scriptural references about Jesus stepping down from his throne to become lowly flesh?' I await with interest.
"Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
Thomas saw the human being Jesus (his Lord) and God the Father in Jesus. He saw two persons. Remember the Holy Spirit was there as well, but no mention of it. Did Thomas only see two parts of the trinity and overlooked the third? You need to study the preceding chapters to get a proper understanding of what Thomas actually saw. Remember John recorded what Thomas saw so that you would believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God (NOT GOD). It follows on rapidly from when Thomas said 'My Lord and My God.'
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Post by mountain on Nov 5, 2021 14:52:30 GMT -5
The first part of the above is correct. The second part is false and originates in human imagination - not revelation!. Peter tells us exactly how Jesus is the quickening spirit. As part of his power and authority in Heaven and Earth, ruling on behalf of his Heavenly Father, Jesus received the Holy Ghost which he sends to his followers. This is the quickening Spirit. Acts 2 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. *** Stop fighting and kicking against the electric fence! With your bare feet, Ram. You only make a fool out of yourself.Jesus is the Son of God and God the Christ are ONE Being or Person. This is the Order Christ/God the Creator of the Universe! Came down from heaven to die for our sins on Calvary's in the person Jesus the Son of man. Therefore, Christ has become God and Man/Jesus. He was/is God/Yahweh BEFORE he incarnate in the person Jesus to die as a man for the man Adam, Eve, and their mortal humans children sins. No matter how often you say it Nathan, you will never make a lie right! Better to be foolish in the eyes of man and wise in the eyes of God,' |
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Post by nathan02 on Nov 5, 2021 14:58:52 GMT -5
*** Stop fighting and kicking against the electric fence! With your bare feet, Ram. You only make a fool out of yourself.Jesus is the Son of God and God the Christ are ONE Being or Person. This is the Order Christ/God the Creator of the Universe! Came down from heaven to die for our sins on Calvary's in the person Jesus the Son of man. Therefore, Christ has become God and Man/Jesus. He was/is God/Yahweh BEFORE he incarnate in the person Jesus to die as a man for the man Adam, Eve, and their mortal humans children sins. No matter how often you say it Nathan, you will never make a lie right! Better to be foolish in the eyes of man and wise in the eyes of God,' *** I gave you a long list of scriptures to show you that Yahweh God/the Son in the Old Test. and Jesus the man in the New Testament are the SAME! Being/Person= God/Man. Stop fighting but yield to God's Order. |
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Post by mountain on Nov 5, 2021 15:03:06 GMT -5
No matter how often you say it Nathan, you will never make a lie right! Better to be foolish in the eyes of man and wise in the eyes of God,' *** I gave you a long list of scriptures to show you that Yahweh God/the Son in the Old Test. and Jesus the man in the New Testament are the SAME! Being/Person= God/Man. Stop fighting but yield to God's Order. Your understanding on every one of the references you quote is erroneous. You will not listen to any alternative view other than your own. I'll be honest Nathan, you believe in a very different God from myself. A very different one, my friend. Some day you will have to come to terms with it. |
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Post by nathan02 on Nov 5, 2021 15:20:27 GMT -5
*** I gave you a long list of scriptures to show you that Yahweh God/the Son in the Old Test. and Jesus the man in the New Testament are the SAME! Being/Person= God/Man. Stop fighting but yield to God's Order. Your understanding on every one of the references you quote is erroneous. You will not listen to any alternative view other than your own. I'll be honest Nathan, you believe in a very different God from myself. A very different one, my friend. Some day you will have to come to terms with it. The Godhead/Triune God that I believe are in the Bible for 4000 years. Christ/God is ETERNAL! He incarnated in the person Jesus the Man. His name or title Immanuel= God with us. You see Jesus beginning was 2000 yrs ago! As a man then he became the Son of God. In John 8:56-58 Jesus told the Pharisees he was God/Yahweh the IAM that I AM that appeared and spoke to Moses and Abraham. They said that is blasphemy! Because you are a man make yourself equal with God I AM that I AM. They picked up stones to kill him. Jesus was telling the Pharisees and the Jews the Truth that He is the God I AM that I AM standing right in front of them! and speaking to them in a human body. |
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Post by mountain on Nov 5, 2021 15:26:53 GMT -5
Your understanding on every one of the references you quote is erroneous. You will not listen to any alternative view other than your own. I'll be honest Nathan, you believe in a very different God from myself. A very different one, my friend. Some day you will have to come to terms with it. The Godhead/Triune God that I believe are in the Bible for 4000 years. Christ/God is ETERNAL! He incarnated in the person Jesus the Man. His name or title Immanuel= God with us. Yes Narthan, we're listening. Oh, tell us again about the hollow Earth......Jesus on Venus.......and some of your other Stranges stories! |
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Post by nathan02 on Nov 5, 2021 15:37:37 GMT -5
The Godhead/Triune God that I believe are in the Bible for 4000 years. Christ/God is ETERNAL! He incarnated in the person Jesus the Man. His name or title Immanuel= God with us. Yes Narthan, we're listening. Oh, tell us again about the hollow Earth......Jesus on Venus.......and some of your other Stranges stories! *** How many times do I have to tell you again and again that they are NOT Strange stories... Frank Stranges was telling the Truth like Jesus was telling the Truth He is God the 2nd Person of the Triune God. You are like the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews! Disagreeing where Jesus said He is the God I AM in the Old Test. and God Almighty in the New Test. Read Rev. 1:7-8. |
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Post by mrdobalina on Nov 5, 2021 16:15:12 GMT -5
Yes Narthan, we're listening. Oh, tell us again about the hollow Earth......Jesus on Venus.......and some of your other Stranges stories! *** How many times do I have to tell you, Frank Stranges was telling the Truth like Jesus was telling the Truth Yes, I think you are probably correct there. |
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Post by fixit on Nov 5, 2021 17:35:28 GMT -5
Frank Stranges was telling the Truth like Jesus was telling the Truth He is God the 2nd Person of the Triune God. You seem to have no idea what truth is. Jesus was telling the Truth He is God the 2nd Person of the Triune God? You'll tell them that in your Wednesday night meetings? |
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Post by nathan02 on Nov 5, 2021 17:52:24 GMT -5
Frank Stranges was telling the Truth like Jesus was telling the Truth He is God the 2nd Person of the Triune God. You seem to have no idea what truth is. Jesus was telling the Truth He is God the 2nd Person of the Triune God? You'll tell them that in your Wednesday night meetings? Yep, one of these days I will when their eyes are opened to who are the Triune God. God the Father is the God of the Most High; Christ/God our Savior is the 2nd Person of the God head and the Holy Spirit is the Third person of the Godhead. Very simple to understand if you think about it and it makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by xna on Nov 5, 2021 20:27:46 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 5, 2021 20:36:57 GMT -5
The Godhead/Triune God that I believe are in the Bible for 4000 years. Christ/God is ETERNAL! He incarnated in the person Jesus the Man. His name or title Immanuel= God with us. Yes Narthan, we're listening. Oh, tell us again about the hollow Earth......Jesus on Venus.......and some of your other Stranges stories!
Many of OUR hymns were written by such "outsiders" long before we even came about! |
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Post by rejoicing on Nov 5, 2021 21:20:16 GMT -5
** No, Christ God was the King of kings and Creator of the heavens, the earth, the Universe and all angels and beings LONG before he incarnate as Jesus the son of man and God on earth 2000 years ago. Read John 1:1-14. ALL things were created by Christ, without Him nothing was made. Christ was in the world and the world was made by Him and the world knew Him NOT. He came Unto His own people and they receive Him NOT as their Messiah/Redeemer. Nathan, in the recent past, on another thread, we briefly discussed these self same passages. I presented THREE independent authorities on youtubes all fully explaining what John 1 is actually saying. Also a full document showing clearly that Jesus is not the word or logos of God. I could present all these again, but you are not interested in engaging properly in these matters. I will discuss things with you word by word, one reference at a time, with genuine dialogue, but I rather suspect you do not want this. You want to dictate. Nathan is right. Always right. But you will not properly engage but rather obfuscate a debate with huge data dumps that kill any prospect of orderly debate. Micah 5: 2. But thou, O Bethlehem, Ephrata, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OLD, FROM EVERLASTING. |
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2021 21:38:35 GMT -5
Nathan, in the recent past, on another thread, we briefly discussed these self same passages. I presented THREE independent authorities on youtubes all fully explaining what John 1 is actually saying. Also a full document showing clearly that Jesus is not the word or logos of God. I could present all these again, but you are not interested in engaging properly in these matters. I will discuss things with you word by word, one reference at a time, with genuine dialogue, but I rather suspect you do not want this. You want to dictate. Nathan is right. Always right. But you will not properly engage but rather obfuscate a debate with huge data dumps that kill any prospect of orderly debate. Micah 5: 2. But thou, O Bethlehem, Ephrata, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OLD, FROM EVERLASTING.
Here is a picture of Chris/God and Jesus are the same Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:9-10 Daniel's Vision of the Ancient of Days Christ in the Old Testament and the Resurrected Jesus are the same Being or Person. Daniel 7:9-10 As I/Daniel continued to watch, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took His seat. His clothing was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from His presence. Thousands upon thousands attended Him, and myriads upon myriads stood before Him. The court was convened, and the books were opened.… Cross References Matthew 28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
Mark 9:3 His clothes became radiantly white, brighter than any launderer on earth could bleach them.
Revelation 1:14-18 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I/Jesus am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. |
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2021 22:00:23 GMT -5
Someone wrote: The Son of God in the Old Testament:
Any time the Old Testament Scriptures state that someone saw God, they saw the pre-incarnate Christ, Jesus himself, before he was born and lived as a human being through the virgin birth. John 1:18 states that "no man hath seen God at any time' the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (revealed) him." Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament are theologically called "Christophanies". Christ the Lord God walked, talked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.
The word "God" in the book of Genesis speaks of "Elohim/plural- Father, Christ and Holy Spirit" or the Trinity, but "the LORD, and "the LORD God", who spoke personally to Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham and many of the Old Testament prophets, is the personal and visible manifestation of God, which is Christ Jesus. The personal name of God in the Old Testament is "Yahweh", translated "LORD" (All Capitol letters) In the KJV, 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "The Lord" from heaven,
(Note:) the title "Lord" in this verse has the Greek article "the" Meaning that "The LORD", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left His home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are one and the same!
Jesus appeared personally, face to face with Moses and the Old Testament prophets of God. Ex. 33:11 where "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." Exodus 24:9-11 Moses and seventy elders of Israel "saw the God of Israel" Jesus is the visible manifestation of "The God of Israel" God, in the person of Jesus, and two angels walked up to Abraham's tent and had dinner with him before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis ch. 18 and 19.
Christ/Jesus in the "Ancient of Days", in Daniel 7: 9-14 (Notice the description is basically the same as the glorified Christ in Rev. 1:12-18. Jesus was in the cloud that followed the children of Israel through the Red Sea. 1 Cor. 10:4 - Ex. 14:14, 19 & 25. The "angel of God" literally means "the appearance of God" (Notice Jesus looked out of the cloud and shot the wheels off of Pharoah's chariots while they were in the dry bottom of the Red Sea!)
The Scriptures clearly teach that "Jesus", of the New Testament, and "Yahweh", translated "LORD", of the Old Testament, are the same person - the Second Person of the Trinity, the "revealed", or "manifest" Person of Almighty God. 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "THE Lord" from heaven, (Note: the name "Jesus" has the Greek article "the"). 1 Cor. 15:47 is stating that the "Lord", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left his home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth.
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Post by Dan on Nov 6, 2021 1:25:57 GMT -5
I still believe Jesus existed from the beginning. The theme of the entire Bible is Christ, he didn't just come into being 2000 years ago. That verse I quoted speaks for itself, "There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man".. Jesus said it point blank, "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me" (John 6:38). No interpretation necessary, he was sent and not created. Of course, his body was created because he needed a vessel to manifest the Word in the flesh, but the Word (Yeshua) existed from the beginning. "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Hebrews 13:8)
And yes, the Jews sought to stone him because they believed he was claiming to be God. They didn't misunderstand him, nor did Christ correct them, because he was in fact claiming to be the Son of God from long before Abraham.
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Post by mountain on Nov 6, 2021 5:13:23 GMT -5
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