|
Post by speak on Feb 17, 2021 16:34:29 GMT -5
Don't know where you have been listening but I surely have been taught of God's grace, of His Spirit, of His love, of His Compassion. It is through His Spirit He teaches of His grace they go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other. Grace says you did nothing to deserve it, so why do you need 2x2 tradition and rituals?. You said yourself that you need it. If you need it what was grace for? What 2x2 tradition and rituals? Where did I state I needed 2x2 tradition and rituals?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 16:39:06 GMT -5
John 18:31: "Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death" The Romans gave the Jewish authorities jurisdiction over religious affairs but stopping short of putting anyone to death. The Romans reserved that privilege for themselves. So if Jesus said to stone the woman he would have been accused of breaking Roman law. If he had said don't stone her, he would have been accused of breaking Jewish law. If he had said they were being a bit mean wanting to stone her, the Wallys and the Nathans of the day would have accused him of being wishy washy and promoting love at the expense of truth. at no time during that event did Jesus lie about her condition nor die he lie and say there wasn't a law for her condition...he never loved at the expense of truth...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 16:43:48 GMT -5
according to the law YES. then that little bit about Christ having the power to forgive sins happened. that did not however change her previous condition she was found in before Christ intervened...good try though atheist Condemned by the law... hmmmm a bit like you condemn me by your law. Luckily it's not worth tuppence. She was never condemned in the first place. The lamb was slain when wally?. Jesus said there will never be enough witnesses to condemn her, so how was she condemned?. while there is life there is hope and the Holy Spirit can work miracles. you could always surprise us and turn it around from the current direction you are headed in though. i wonder if that will ever be? that is not biblical chuck... good try atheist
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Feb 17, 2021 17:05:43 GMT -5
It seems to me quite simple why people created the idea of there being something called a "Grace of god" and why they want to believe that it exists.
This is what the Bible says about grace of God.
"Grace" means the "favor and love of God" is "freely" given even if it not "merited" by anything the person has done to deserve it.
Most all people realize that they do not always "merit" favor or love and also know nothing is ever really "free." Someone, somewhere always has to pay the piper.
Therefore they had to also create a surrogate to pay the piper for them and that was Jesus who "sacrificed his life and shed his blood."
So by making themselves free of having to pay for their mistakes themselves, -they still have to believe in "Jesus" the "son of the god who has given them "Grace!"
So the circle of the web is completed.
They are still caught up in a web and the web is their own creation.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 17, 2021 17:18:52 GMT -5
I always thought, as we all sang together, "Just as I am ...." How many of you guys actually believe this? I suspect some workers wouldn't select that hymn on a Saturday night.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Feb 17, 2021 17:38:04 GMT -5
I always thought, as we all sang together, "Just as I am ...." How many of you guys actually believe this? I suspect some workers wouldn't select that hymn on a Saturday night. Wally and Nathan don't seem to comprehend the words they sing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 17:59:41 GMT -5
I always thought, as we all sang together, "Just as I am ...." How many of you guys actually believe this? I suspect some workers wouldn't select that hymn on a Saturday night. Wally and Nathan don't seem to comprehend the words they sing. better than corrupting them as you do....good try though
|
|
|
Post by speak on Feb 17, 2021 18:30:59 GMT -5
Wally and Nathan don't seem to comprehend the words they sing. better than corrupting them as you do....good try though How is he corrupting them?
|
|
|
Post by openingact34 on Feb 17, 2021 18:32:17 GMT -5
I always thought, as we all sang together, "Just as I am ...." How many of you guys actually believe this? I suspect some workers wouldn't select that hymn on a Saturday night. I can't find the exact quote, but one of the prominent pioneering workers preached that it was the job of the ministry to let the right people into the kingdom, and keep the wrong ones out. You can profess just as you are, but the workers don't have to accept you that way. You may have to fix things and then come back just as you are. Or just go away.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 18:44:58 GMT -5
better than corrupting them as you do....good try though How is he corrupting them? selective application....
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Feb 17, 2021 18:48:59 GMT -5
Grace says you did nothing to deserve it, so why do you need 2x2 tradition and rituals?. You said yourself that you need it. If you need it what was grace for? What 2x2 tradition and rituals? Where did I state I needed 2x2 tradition and rituals? So you dont need meetings, missions, special meetings, conventions, professing, workers, baptism by the workers?
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Feb 17, 2021 19:03:27 GMT -5
Condemned by the law... hmmmm a bit like you condemn me by your law. Luckily it's not worth tuppence. She was never condemned in the first place. The lamb was slain when wally?. Jesus said there will never be enough witnesses to condemn her, so how was she condemned?. while there is life there is hope and the Holy Spirit can work miracles. you could always surprise us and turn it around from the current direction you are headed in though. i wonder if that will ever be? that is not biblical chuck... good try atheist I thought that might make you balk, bit like "will I burn of I don't see it like you?", quite confronting when you have to answer according to your convictions. Anytime you balk you bring out the HS wally. Like Nathan thats a copout.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 19:16:01 GMT -5
while there is life there is hope and the Holy Spirit can work miracles. you could always surprise us and turn it around from the current direction you are headed in though. i wonder if that will ever be? that is not biblical chuck... good try atheist I thought that might make you balk, bit like "will I burn of I don't see it like you?", quite confronting when you have to answer according to your convictions. Anytime you balk you bring out the HS wally. Like Nathan thats a copout. hmmm rejection or scorn of the Holy Spirit is NOT that good of an idea there chuck... my convictions are fine thank you... good try though atheist
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Feb 17, 2021 19:31:29 GMT -5
I thought that might make you balk, bit like "will I burn of I don't see it like you?", quite confronting when you have to answer according to your convictions. Anytime you balk you bring out the HS wally. Like Nathan thats a copout. hmmm rejection or scorn of the Holy Spirit is NOT that good of an idea there chuck... my convictions are fine thank you... good try though atheist With the attitude you have to others in your own church, it was probably just as well that you didn't become a Worker @wally ! Your posts are so full of self righteousness and of course you can never be wrong ! You are showing some great "fruits of the Spirit....not ! nathan needs to be careful of being pushed out of the position of "God" !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 19:42:57 GMT -5
hmmm rejection or scorn of the Holy Spirit is NOT that good of an idea there chuck... my convictions are fine thank you... good try though atheist With the attitude you have to others in your own church, it was probably just as well that you didn't become a Worker @wally ! Your posts are so full of self righteousness and of course you can never be wrong ! You are showing some great "fruits of the Spirit....not ! nathan needs to be careful of being pushed out of the position of "God" ! God works in mysterious ways, his will be done....you might want to take care of those personal issues you have rather than blaming others for them though...
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Feb 17, 2021 19:47:47 GMT -5
With the attitude you have to others in your own church, it was probably just as well that you didn't become a Worker @wally ! Your posts are so full of self righteousness and of course you can never be wrong ! You are showing some great "fruits of the Spirit....not ! nathan needs to be careful of being pushed out of the position of "God" ! God works in mysterious ways, his will be done....you might want to take care of those personal issues you have rather than blaming others for them though... Projecting again are you @wally ! Good try though !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 19:55:52 GMT -5
God works in mysterious ways, his will be done....you might want to take care of those personal issues you have rather than blaming others for them though... Projecting again are you @wally ! Good try though ! careful you are starting to sound like me(that could be good or could be bad depending)....
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Feb 17, 2021 19:59:03 GMT -5
God works in mysterious ways, his will be done....you might want to take care of those personal issues you have rather than blaming others for them though... Projecting again are you @wally ! Good try though ! ** Wally, just saying... the truth you need to take care of those personal issues that you have in your life like bitterness, unforgiveness, and broken records! Hey, you are improving, less and less of the broken record, Good job.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Feb 17, 2021 20:02:38 GMT -5
I thought that might make you balk, bit like "will I burn of I don't see it like you?", quite confronting when you have to answer according to your convictions. Anytime you balk you bring out the HS wally. Like Nathan thats a copout. hmmm rejection or scorn of the Holy Spirit is NOT that good of an idea there chuck... my convictions are fine thank you... good try though atheist The rejection of the Holy Spirit would be for example. Warning people not to sin so God won't condemn them.(opposite to what he actually say's)
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Feb 17, 2021 20:15:17 GMT -5
It seems to me quite simple why people created the idea of there being something called a "Grace of god" and why they want to believe that it exists.
This is what the Bible says about grace of God.
"Grace" means the "favor and love of God" is "freely" given even if it not "merited" by anything the person has done to deserve it.
Most all people realize that they do not always "merit" favor or love and also know nothing is ever really "free." Someone, somewhere always has to pay the piper.
Therefore they had to also create a surrogate to pay the piper for them and that was Jesus who "sacrificed his life and shed his blood."
So by making themselves free of having to pay for their mistakes themselves, -they still have to believe in "Jesus" the "son of the god who has given them "Grace!"
So the circle of the web is completed.
They are still caught up in a web and the web is their own creation.
The narrative of scripture say's otherwise, It say's that's what God was like all along, Christ believed he had to show it because we didn't believe it, and then we still reject it. Grace, it has always been.... Who created the surrogate?
|
|
|
Post by speak on Feb 17, 2021 21:42:08 GMT -5
What 2x2 tradition and rituals? Where did I state I needed 2x2 tradition and rituals? So you dont need meetings, missions, special meetings, conventions, professing, workers, baptism by the workers? Since when have those been tradition and rituals?
|
|
|
Post by speak on Feb 17, 2021 21:44:42 GMT -5
How is he corrupting them? selective application.... What a load of rot
|
|
rob
New Member
Posts: 48
|
Post by rob on Feb 17, 2021 22:02:35 GMT -5
So you dont need meetings, missions, special meetings, conventions, professing, workers, baptism by the workers? Since when have those been tradition and rituals? Since the workers made them essential for salvation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 22:11:25 GMT -5
Since when have those been tradition and rituals? Since the workers made them essential for salvation. professing and baptism by workers (living witness doctrine) was seen as essential for salvation since Irvine the founder. Strict attendance to meetings is one of those "if you're really professing, you'll do it" things. Plausible denability in case anyone asks.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 17, 2021 22:31:55 GMT -5
Projecting again are you @wally ! Good try though ! ** Wally, just saying... the truth you need to take care of those personal issues that you have in your life like bitterness, unforgiveness, and broken records! Hey, you are improving, less and less of the broken record, Good job.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 17, 2021 22:36:19 GMT -5
I always thought, as we all sang together, "Just as I am ...." How many of you guys actually believe this? I suspect some workers wouldn't select that hymn on a Saturday night. I can't find the exact quote, but one of the prominent pioneering workers preached that it was the job of the ministry to let the right people into the kingdom, and keep the wrong ones out. You can profess just as you are, but the workers don't have to accept you that way. You may have to fix things and then come back just as you are. Or just go away. I had never heard of such a thing until I moved here to the west coast at the age of 40. We were told that in a meeting, and I frankly thought it was offensive. Like they even had the power to do such a thing!!
|
|
|
Post by speak on Feb 17, 2021 23:01:00 GMT -5
Since when have those been tradition and rituals? Since the workers made them essential for salvation. Never heard such rubbish.
|
|
rob
New Member
Posts: 48
|
Post by rob on Feb 18, 2021 1:01:06 GMT -5
Since the workers made them essential for salvation. Never heard such rubbish. I agree that it’s rubbish, but unfortunately I and others have heard it.
|
|