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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 3:16:12 GMT -5
I agree, but changing the dogma, "We are In and everybody else is out" is going to be a struggle. It is what the 2x2 unwritten doctrine is built on, years of indoctrination through multiple generations. It's impossible to love your neighbour with this as part of the foundation of your belief. Really-and exec's dontbhave an attitude?? What about this statement The magazine is not expensive, every 2x2 should buy one, to learn that you can escape to a happier, healthier, life away from the 2x2,s.What arrogance! I know so many committed Christian people who would tell you that their faith is the most precious thing in their lives. Do you not realise that some of us have been where you are - unbelieving, and I couldn't think of anything worse than returning to that empty shallow life. If you're happy like that -good on you but dont try and patronize believers and tell them that you know better. I am so grateful that for me-you dont! What are you on about? What am I a unbeliver in?. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 3:27:55 GMT -5
Spot on Fixit, most ex's retain 2x2 Family and Friends. There are many generous thinking 2x2's and yes we do appreciate and applaud that. Now you know that you have bagged our church on many occasions. I'm willing to show as fixit has said and have done in the past but it really grinds my gears when I see things spoken of which have not been my experience, very much opposite. And then to be told that I'm wrong. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 3:37:43 GMT -5
I find it very helpful to discuss concerns and experiences with exes. I don't recall any of them despising "Love your neighbour and all that". Rather, they despise the opposite of that. Speak, if you and I could move the fellowship closer to "Love your neighbour and all that" I think most exes would applaud. I agree, but changing the dogma, "We are In and everybody else is out" is going to be a struggle. It is what the 2x2 unwritten doctrine is built on, years of indoctrination through multiple generations. It's impossible to love your neighbour with this as part of the foundation of your belief. That is not our doctrine at all, I have never known it to be. You say it is a struggle to deal with what is not our doctrine, so where did you get this idea from? Jesus said that he would gather all who loved Him and His Father. It is up to the individual to see whether they love Him more than themselves or the world. |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 4:08:30 GMT -5
I agree, but changing the dogma, "We are In and everybody else is out" is going to be a struggle. It is what the 2x2 unwritten doctrine is built on, years of indoctrination through multiple generations. It's impossible to love your neighbour with this as part of the foundation of your belief. That is not our doctrine at all, I have never known it to be. You say it is a struggle to deal with what is not our doctrine, so where did you get this idea from? Jesus said that he would gather all who loved Him and His Father. It is up to the individual to see whether they love Him more than themselves or the world. So you don't need the 2x2 system?. |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 5:01:47 GMT -5
What are you on about? What am I a unbeliver in?. Sorry chuck - the last part of my post didnt appear?? It said 'sorry-most of this post was really for feedback (his quote in Italics) but you cant reply to 2 people at once' When I post off my phone, all sorts of strange things happen!! That's fine, which bit was directed at me so we can get at it 😁🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 8:52:40 GMT -5
What did you learn from Jesus? Isn't it the same? Love your neighbour and all that? I find it very helpful to discuss concerns and experiences with exes. I don't recall any of them despising "Love your neighbour and all that". Rather, they despise the opposite of that. Speak, if you and I could move the fellowship closer to "Love your neighbour and all that" I think most exes would applaud. Many wouldn't be 'exes' at all, and those that didn't go to meetings might not carry such a label in the first place. I see a much better future for the fellowship, but only if conversations like this are able to be had. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 8:55:59 GMT -5
Spot on Fixit, most ex's retain 2x2 Family and Friends. There are many generous thinking 2x2's and yes we do appreciate and applaud that. Now you know that you have bagged our church on many occasions. I'm willing to show as fixit has said and have done in the past but it really grinds my gears when I see things spoken of which have not been my experience, very much opposite. And then to be told that I'm wrong. Actually Speak, you speaking from your perspective has been helpful for me to realize the truth of other perspectives. It's a harder thing than it sounds. I know things get a bit testy on forums like tmb (I contribute my share of blanket statements and over generalizations), but I see it as all par for the course. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 8:58:33 GMT -5
Really-and exec's dontbhave an attitude?? What about this statement The magazine is not expensive, every 2x2 should buy one, to learn that you can escape to a happier, healthier, life away from the 2x2,s.What arrogance! I know so many committed Christian people who would tell you that their faith is the most precious thing in their lives. Do you not realise that some of us have been where you are - unbelieving, and I couldn't think of anything worse than returning to that empty shallow life. If you're happy like that -good on you but dont try and patronize believers and tell them that you know better. I am so grateful that for me-you dont! What are you on about? What am I a unbeliver in?. One major issue is the either/or mentality. You can be a believer and not 'profess' in the 2x2 system. Likewise, you can be perfectly happy within it as well. |
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 26, 2020 12:29:46 GMT -5
What did you learn from Jesus? Isn't it the same? Love your neighbour and all that? I find it very helpful to discuss concerns and experiences with exes. I don't recall any of them despising "Love your neighbour and all that". Rather, they despise the opposite of that. Speak, if you and I could move the fellowship closer to "Love your neighbour and all that" I think most exes would applaud. "Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." -James 4:4 If God considers people who pursue friendship with the worldlings to be his enemies, just imagine how wrathful he must be against you for pursuing friendship with his enemies!!! As one of the lovely hymns warns: "Long with you He pleaded, but you would not hear. Now He will not help you, though you FAINT WITH FEAR" |
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2020 15:41:54 GMT -5
Spot on Fixit, most ex's retain 2x2 Family and Friends. There are many generous thinking 2x2's and yes we do appreciate and applaud that. Now you know that you have bagged our church on many occasions. I'm willing to show as fixit has said and have done in the past but it really grinds my gears when I see things spoken of which have not been my experience, very much opposite. And then to be told that I'm wrong. TMB is not for the faint-hearted and you are appreciated for hanging in here Speak. |
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2020 15:46:16 GMT -5
Sorry chuck - the last part of my post didnt appear?? It said 'sorry-most of this post was really for feedback (his quote in Italics) but you cant reply to 2 people at once' When I post off my phone, all sorts of strange things happen!! That's fine, which bit was directed at me so we can get at it 😁🤣 Chuck: I took it that it was not you that was responded to, but rather what you had quoted. |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 19:57:55 GMT -5
What are you on about? What am I a unbeliver in?. One major issue is the either/or mentality. You can be a believer and not 'profess' in the 2x2 system. Likewise, you can be perfectly happy within it as well. I try to be very careful in saying "I believe". If you believe something you do it. So it's very boastful to run around saying "Im a believer" when often I do not do what I believe. I try to act as if there is a God, I think God is true, but to boldy say I'm a believer in this context is not true. |
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Post by iam on Jun 26, 2020 21:29:37 GMT -5
I find it very helpful to discuss concerns and experiences with exes. I don't recall any of them despising "Love your neighbour and all that". Rather, they despise the opposite of that. Speak, if you and I could move the fellowship closer to "Love your neighbour and all that" I think most exes would applaud. "Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." -James 4:4 If God considers people who pursue friendship with the worldlings to be his enemies, just imagine how wrathful he must be against you for pursuing friendship with his enemies!!! As one of the lovely hymns warns: "Long with you He pleaded, but you would not hear. Now He will not help you, though you FAINT WITH FEAR" But how many of our faith see THEMSELVES as “the world”? Just because we go to meetings we’re not the world? According to scriptures their stripes will be fewer. This should humble us and that’s not a quality we tend to produce from what I’m seeing. Chuck is right when he mentioned we say we believe but how are we DOers of what we believe? It’s hypocrisy to even say we are believers.There is much justification by fellow 2x2s on this board and otherwise for condemning “the world” when they are not DOing different with the exception of going to meetings. These are the very things that Jesus hated in his own people. Not the world, but those that considered themselves to be his people. |
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Post by iam on Jun 26, 2020 21:34:55 GMT -5
I agree, but changing the dogma, "We are In and everybody else is out" is going to be a struggle. It is what the 2x2 unwritten doctrine is built on, years of indoctrination through multiple generations. It's impossible to love your neighbour with this as part of the foundation of your belief. Really-and exec's dont have an attitude?? What about this statement earlier in this thread? The magazine is not expensive, every 2x2 should buy one, to learn that you can escape to a happier, healthier, life away from the 2x2,s.What arrogance from Redback. I know so many committed Christian people who would tell you that their faith is the most precious thing in their lives. Do you not realise that some of us have been where you are - unbelieving, and I couldn't think of anything worse than returning to that empty shallow life. If you're happy like that -good on you but dont try and patronize believers and tell them that you know better. I am so grateful that for me-you dont! Sorry -most of my post I'd directed at Redback but you cant reply to two posts at once! What about your attitude? It’s better? If you walked a mile in their shoes you wouldn’t have the shine they DO have. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 26, 2020 22:53:59 GMT -5
Spot on Fixit, most ex's retain 2x2 Family and Friends. There are many generous thinking 2x2's and yes we do appreciate and applaud that. Now you know that you have bagged our church on many occasions. I'm willing to show as fixit has said and have done in the past but it really grinds my gears when I see things spoken of which have not been my experience, very much opposite. And then to be told that I'm wrong. But surely you realize that YOU haven't heard of everything that all the others connected to the 2x2's have experienced. Do you think that because you've never heard of something that a person has to be lying? |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 23:00:49 GMT -5
That is not our doctrine at all, I have never known it to be. You say it is a struggle to deal with what is not our doctrine, so where did you get this idea from? Jesus said that he would gather all who loved Him and His Father. It is up to the individual to see whether they love Him more than themselves or the world. So you don't need the 2x2 system?. Don't have one. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 23:07:44 GMT -5
Now you know that you have bagged our church on many occasions. I'm willing to show as fixit has said and have done in the past but it really grinds my gears when I see things spoken of which have not been my experience, very much opposite. And then to be told that I'm wrong. But surely you realize that YOU haven't heard of everything that all the others connected to the 2x2's have experienced. Do you think that because you've never heard of something that a person has to be lying? So it is fine for me to be told I am wrong when I know I am not? I was talking about my experience not others. They very well may be telling the truth about their experience, they are usually given the benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 23:10:42 GMT -5
What are you on about? What am I a unbeliver in?. One major issue is the either/or mentality. You can be a believer and not 'profess' in the 2x2 system. Likewise, you can be perfectly happy within it as well. I don't know of any in the fellowship who profess in a system  I do know many who's profession is in Christ. |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 23:14:25 GMT -5
So you don't need the 2x2 system?. Don't have one. Oh that's interesting. So you would agree then, we dont need workers, meetings, missions, conventions, professing, baptism to know God then?. |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 23:16:48 GMT -5
One major issue is the either/or mentality. You can be a believer and not 'profess' in the 2x2 system. Likewise, you can be perfectly happy within it as well. I don't know of any in the fellowship who profess in a system I do know many who's profession is in Christ. "in the fellowship" 🤦♂️. Nothing to see here folks, no systems around here, move along, next question. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 23:25:00 GMT -5
Oh that's interesting. So you would agree then, we dont need workers, meetings, missions, conventions, professing, baptism to know God then?. Well according to my Bible we do? Don't ask were ask God. |
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Post by speak on Jun 26, 2020 23:25:47 GMT -5
I don't know of any in the fellowship who profess in a system I do know many who's profession is in Christ. "in the fellowship" 🤦♂️. Nothing to see here folks, no systems around here, move along, next question. Why are you a drip? |
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2020 23:41:40 GMT -5
"in the fellowship" 🤦♂️. Nothing to see here folks, no systems around here, move along, next question. Why are you a drip? What's going to happen to those "outside the fellowoship"? |
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2020 0:36:49 GMT -5
Oh that's interesting. So you would agree then, we dont need workers, meetings, missions, conventions, professing, baptism to know God then?. Well according to my Bible we do? Don't ask were ask God. So if you need all those things(which the bible does not say we need)to get to heaven, those who don't do those things are going to hell?. Your answering the question for me by all your side stepping. You can join the back line with wally and Nathan. Basically your saying those who dont see it how you do are going to hell. That's what you mean when you say un professing, not in the fellowship, outsiders, worldly and what ever other favourite lines 2x2's like to use. That's what I was telling Nathan is disgusting. Especially how it just rolls off the tongue in conversation. Anyone who doesn't see it like you is hell bound. You say you have no system. 2x2ism is a system. You have just confirmed it by saying you require all those things. Those things Paul describes as Dung!. |
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Post by speak on Jun 27, 2020 1:22:25 GMT -5
Well according to my Bible we do? Don't ask were ask God. So if you need all those things(which the bible does not say we need)to get to heaven, those who don't do those things are going to hell?. Your answering the question for me by all your side stepping. You can join the back line with wally and Nathan. Basically your saying those who dont see it how you do are going to hell. That's what you mean when you say un professing, not in the fellowship, outsiders, worldly and what ever other favourite lines 2x2's like to use. That's what I was telling Nathan is disgusting. Especially how it just rolls off the tongue in conversation. Anyone who doesn't see it like you is hell bound. You say you have no system. 2x2ism is a system. You have just confirmed it by saying you require all those things. Those things Paul describes as Dung!. Sorry but end of conversation with you. |
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Post by speak on Jun 27, 2020 1:22:47 GMT -5
What's going to happen to those "outside the fellowoship"? Ask God. |
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 28, 2020 4:23:05 GMT -5
I agree, but changing the dogma, "We are In and everybody else is out" is going to be a struggle. It is what the 2x2 unwritten doctrine is built on, years of indoctrination through multiple generations. It's impossible to love your neighbour with this as part of the foundation of your belief. That is not our doctrine at all, I have never known it to be. You say it is a struggle to deal with what is not our doctrine, so where did you get this idea from? Jesus said that he would gather all who loved Him and His Father. It is up to the individual to see whether they love Him more than themselves or the world. I don't know what 2x2 organization you belong to speak, but the one I was raised in made it very clear that this was their doctrine. Shoved down my throat since I was a child; unless you are a professing member of the church in good standing, you will not have life eternal. |
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 28, 2020 4:26:35 GMT -5
One major issue is the either/or mentality. You can be a believer and not 'profess' in the 2x2 system. Likewise, you can be perfectly happy within it as well. I don't know of any in the fellowship who profess in a system I do know many who's profession is in Christ. I know a lot in the fellowship that profess in a system. "There is none so blind as he that can not see." |
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I do know many who's profession is in Christ.