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Post by BobWilliston on May 19, 2020 0:23:55 GMT -5
There's a word for people who only see black and white. confident, predictable, sure, unambiguous, straight laced, clear, steady, unshakable... We know.
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2020 0:35:07 GMT -5
yeah but when it went to the big companies that was to ensure pay checks for employees, correct? Yes, I understand these loans turn into a gift if they don't fire the employee. Running the money thru a bank, then an employer adds risk of fraud. Who is going to audit all those employers and banks? Anytime you add links to a supply chain it costs money, slows things down, and increases the chances of errors and fraud. And all this messing with the economy prolongs a recession. ******************************************************************************** On May 6, 1939, Henry Morgenthau, Roosevelt’s treasury secretary, confirmed the total failure of the New Deal to stop the Great Depression: “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!” fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/
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Post by BobWilliston on May 19, 2020 0:43:30 GMT -5
Yes, I understand these loans turn into a gift if they don't fire the employee. Running the money thru a bank, then an employer adds risk of fraud. Who is going to audit all those employers and banks? Anytime you add links to a supply chain it costs money, slows things down, and increases the chances of errors and fraud. And all this messing with the economy prolongs a recession. ******************************************************************************** On May 6, 1939, Henry Morgenthau, Roosevelt’s treasury secretary, confirmed the total failure of the New Deal to stop the Great Depression: “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!” fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/That article doesn't address (1) why Roosevelt failed, and (2) what happened that eventually allowed him to succeed. It's not surprising -- coming from the writer and the college he teaches for.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 0:53:18 GMT -5
Yes, I understand these loans turn into a gift if they don't fire the employee. Running the money thru a bank, then an employer adds risk of fraud. Who is going to audit all those employers and banks? Anytime you add links to a supply chain it costs money, slows things down, and increases the chances of errors and fraud. And all this messing with the economy prolongs a recession. ******************************************************************************** On May 6, 1939, Henry Morgenthau, Roosevelt’s treasury secretary, confirmed the total failure of the New Deal to stop the Great Depression: “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!” fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/That is by no means the full story. Beautifully cherry picked tho.
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Post by Dan on May 19, 2020 2:29:18 GMT -5
I don't think we need change in our faith (Hebrews 13:8). The Living Word is solidified in Christ, but never stagnant. But I agree that religion (traditions of men) is a boiling pot of hypocrisy.
I've dealt with a lot of poor people, but have observed that many are needy because they're just lazy. I've offered a few of them jobs, but they prefer a handout. Many are not poor helpless widows or indigent, but simply try to walk around a simple requirement, "The worker deserves his wages." (1 Timothy 5:18). Government stimulus usually consist of taking from those who work and giving it to those who won't work, and these programs often don't differentiate between healthy lazy people who won't work from people who can't work.
The best way government can stimulate an economy is to stay out of the way of those who create prosperity (capitalism). jmo
Change is absolutely critical in our faith. Without change things go stagnant. I love what a very faithful man said at our special meetings a few years ago “this needs shaking up”. That’s honest. I love that kind of honesty. But people are AFRAID of change. And maybe people don’t work for you because you’re not at understanding people? It kind of shows in how you describe them. It’s not very merciful. Maybe you should be an employee and not an employer? There’s not much understanding in many of our people let alone mercy. Jmo. Psalm 55:19 KJV [19] God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God. We SAY we fear God but we have no changes. It’s not God that needs to change. It’s us. Because we THINK we know God but our relationships with people Jesus was a FRIEND to is critical and condemning.
The faith changes people, not vice versa. The faith is alive, but people can become stagnant. When we're called to repentance, we're called to turn from our ways and go another direction.
I've been an employee and an employer, so I relate to both sides of the coin. When people leave work for a couple months, its not because I don't understand them, its because they aren't dependable or reliable. I call a spade a spade, when someone deserts their fellow employee's & employer, I describe them as irresponsible, lazy, or whatever term fits their action.
When someone disappears from work for 2 months, they've kind of fire themselves by shirking all responsibility. Yes, I was creating prosperity for her before she took off, now the government is. And vacations are usually a week or two, not a month or two or three, or four.
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2020 2:56:18 GMT -5
And all this messing with the economy prolongs a recession. ******************************************************************************** On May 6, 1939, Henry Morgenthau, Roosevelt’s treasury secretary, confirmed the total failure of the New Deal to stop the Great Depression: “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!” fee.org/articles/fdrs-folly-how-roosevelt-and-his-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/That is by no means the full story. Beautifully cherry picked tho. No doubt nothing short of a chapter book would give the full story. There's a balance to be had. Governments can intervene too much or too little. A good question to ask is "how much are you spending per job saved?" The investment needs to boost the productivity of the country rather than just throw money around.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 19, 2020 3:15:25 GMT -5
A combination of Trickle Down and Trickle Up with the right percentages should work.
Always amuses me how the advocates of one theory deny the efficacy of the other.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 3:39:25 GMT -5
That is by no means the full story. Beautifully cherry picked tho. No doubt nothing short of a chapter book would give the full story. There's a balance to be had. Governments can intervene too much or too little. A good question to ask is "how much are you spending per job saved?" The investment needs to boost the productivity of the country rather than just throw money around. You may remember Muldoon's PEP schemes. There was a lot of people doing unproductive stuff, some productive but a lot of unproductive. However the people involved in them learnt skills and more importantly learnt routine. Hopefully they went on to better stuff.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 3:43:09 GMT -5
A combination of Trickle Down and Trickle Up with the right percentages should work. Always amuses me how the advocates of one theory deny the efficacy of the other. I much prefer the "Great Leap Backwards" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGillicuddy_Serious_Party
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2020 4:24:25 GMT -5
No doubt nothing short of a chapter book would give the full story. There's a balance to be had. Governments can intervene too much or too little. A good question to ask is "how much are you spending per job saved?" The investment needs to boost the productivity of the country rather than just throw money around. You may remember Muldoon's PEP schemes. There was a lot of people doing unproductive stuff, some productive but a lot of unproductive. However the people involved in them learnt skills and more importantly learnt routine. Hopefully they went on to better stuff. Do you remember Muldoon's skinny sheep policy? He decided sheep farmers deserved some support from the next generation of taxpayers so he paid them per head stocked. And paid dairy farmers $4 per kilo for a product returning about $2.50 in the market place. I thought those days were gone, but they're back it seems.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 4:30:57 GMT -5
You may remember Muldoon's PEP schemes. There was a lot of people doing unproductive stuff, some productive but a lot of unproductive. However the people involved in them learnt skills and more importantly learnt routine. Hopefully they went on to better stuff. Do you remember Muldoon's skinny sheep policy? He decided sheep farmers deserved some support from the next generation of taxpayers so he paid them per head stocked. And paid dairy farmers $4 per kilo for a product returning about $2.50 in the market place. I thought those days were gone, but they're back it seems. I have a feeling the reasons are slightly different to day than they were in the 70's early 80's. There is also the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994 lurking over the current govt' shoulders. Every govt. has adhered to it since Ruth Richardson wrote it and I expect this govt. will do the same once this has passed. Which may take some time. Maybe ten years? I better add that I remember the butter mountains and some of it being swapped for Lada's. The Russians must have been creaming themselves laughing over that one.
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Post by matisse on May 19, 2020 4:51:10 GMT -5
Change is absolutely critical in our faith. Without change things go stagnant. I love what a very faithful man said at our special meetings a few years ago “this needs shaking up”. That’s honest. I love that kind of honesty. But people are AFRAID of change. And maybe people don’t work for you because you’re not at understanding people? It kind of shows in how you describe them. It’s not very merciful. Maybe you should be an employee and not an employer? There’s not much understanding in many of our people let alone mercy. Jmo. Psalm 55:19 KJV [19] God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God. We SAY we fear God but we have no changes. It’s not God that needs to change. It’s us. Because we THINK we know God but our relationships with people Jesus was a FRIEND to is critical and condemning.
The faith changes people, not vice versa. The faith is alive, but people can become stagnant. When we're called to repentance, we're called to turn from our ways and go another direction.
I've been an employee and an employer, so I relate to both sides of the coin. When people leave work for a couple months, its not because I don't understand them, its because they aren't dependable or reliable. I call a spade a spade, when someone deserts their fellow employee's & employer, I describe them as irresponsible, lazy, or whatever term fits their action.
When someone disappears from work for 2 months, they've kind of fire themselves by shirking all responsibility. Yes, I was creating prosperity for her before she took off, now the government is. And vacations are usually a week or two, not a month or two or three, or four. I've only heard your side of the story.
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2020 5:00:56 GMT -5
Do you remember Muldoon's skinny sheep policy? He decided sheep farmers deserved some support from the next generation of taxpayers so he paid them per head stocked. And paid dairy farmers $4 per kilo for a product returning about $2.50 in the market place. I thought those days were gone, but they're back it seems. I have a feeling the reasons are slightly different to day than they were in the 70's early 80's. There is also the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994 lurking over the current govt' shoulders. Every govt. has adhered to it since Ruth Richardson wrote it and I expect this govt. will do the same once this has passed. Which may take some time. Maybe ten years? I better add that I remember the butter mountains and some of it being swapped for Lada's. The Russians must have been creaming themselves laughing over that one. Then it was our biggest export earner taken away (trade with the UK). Now it's our biggest export earner taken away (international tourism). They don't seem to understand that we need export-led growth. I'm not sure that this government is so mindful of the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994. www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300013538/economic-vandalism-destroys-important-legacy
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Post by ellie on May 19, 2020 5:46:45 GMT -5
When someone disappears from work for 2 months, they've kind of fire themselves by shirking all responsibility. Yes, I was creating prosperity for her before she took off, now the government is. And vacations are usually a week or two, not a month or two or three, or four.
Two months is a drop in the ocean. Some companies allow a year or even more of unpaid holiday leave. One of my colleagues recently sold all her possessions and took many months off to both travel and spend time in her home country. I only took a month and a 3 week break
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Post by ellie on May 19, 2020 6:01:03 GMT -5
I have a feeling the reasons are slightly different to day than they were in the 70's early 80's. There is also the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994 lurking over the current govt' shoulders. Every govt. has adhered to it since Ruth Richardson wrote it and I expect this govt. will do the same once this has passed. Which may take some time. Maybe ten years? I better add that I remember the butter mountains and some of it being swapped for Lada's. The Russians must have been creaming themselves laughing over that one. Then it was our biggest export earner taken away (trade with the UK). Now it's our biggest export earner taken away (international tourism). They don't seem to understand that we need export-led growth. There is a huge push to open trans-tasman borders asap. I doubt it will happen, but there's even discussion of opening for ski-season. Assuming we don't have a big case spike now lockdown is easing here, be prepared to be inundated with Aussies in the not too distant future!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 13:17:09 GMT -5
Then it was our biggest export earner taken away (trade with the UK). Now it's our biggest export earner taken away (international tourism). They don't seem to understand that we need export-led growth. There is a huge push to open trans-tasman borders asap. I doubt it will happen, but there's even discussion of opening for ski-season. Assuming we don't have a big case spike now lockdown is easing here, be prepared to be inundated with Aussies in the not too distant future! From what I can gather the ski fields around me are aiming to open. With reduced patronage I doubt that having all of them open will be economically viable. There are about seven I think within cooee of me. Remarkables, Cadrona, Treble Cone, Ohau, Roundill, Fox Peak and Mt Dobson. I have touring gear so do not need a lift and much prefer back country skiing on untracked and ungroomed snow.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2020 13:21:29 GMT -5
I have a feeling the reasons are slightly different to day than they were in the 70's early 80's. There is also the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994 lurking over the current govt' shoulders. Every govt. has adhered to it since Ruth Richardson wrote it and I expect this govt. will do the same once this has passed. Which may take some time. Maybe ten years? I better add that I remember the butter mountains and some of it being swapped for Lada's. The Russians must have been creaming themselves laughing over that one. Then it was our biggest export earner taken away (trade with the UK). Now it's our biggest export earner taken away (international tourism). They don't seem to understand that we need export-led growth. I'm not sure that this government is so mindful of the Fiscal Responsibility Act 1994. www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300013538/economic-vandalism-destroys-important-legacyI believe that they do recognize the importance of exports. They also recognize the importance of lives which is why there has been a strong emphasis on keeping people safe during these dangerous times. Watch a country such as the USA dig itself a hole because of their different attitude to this.
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2020 14:55:55 GMT -5
Then it was our biggest export earner taken away (trade with the UK). Now it's our biggest export earner taken away (international tourism). They don't seem to understand that we need export-led growth. There is a huge push to open trans-tasman borders asap. I doubt it will happen, but there's even discussion of opening for ski-season. Assuming we don't have a big case spike now lockdown is easing here, be prepared to be inundated with Aussies in the not too distant future! Come on over. We speak English. And understand Australian.
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Post by Dan on May 19, 2020 20:13:40 GMT -5
The faith changes people, not vice versa. The faith is alive, but people can become stagnant. When we're called to repentance, we're called to turn from our ways and go another direction.
I've been an employee and an employer, so I relate to both sides of the coin. When people leave work for a couple months, its not because I don't understand them, its because they aren't dependable or reliable. I call a spade a spade, when someone deserts their fellow employee's & employer, I describe them as irresponsible, lazy, or whatever term fits their action.
When someone disappears from work for 2 months, they've kind of fire themselves by shirking all responsibility. Yes, I was creating prosperity for her before she took off, now the government is. And vacations are usually a week or two, not a month or two or three, or four. I've only heard your side of the story.
True
When someone disappears from work for 2 months, they've kind of fire themselves by shirking all responsibility. Yes, I was creating prosperity for her before she took off, now the government is. And vacations are usually a week or two, not a month or two or three, or four.
Two months is a drop in the ocean. Some companies allow a year or even more of unpaid holiday leave. One of my colleagues recently sold all her possessions and took many months off to both travel and spend time in her home country. I only took a month and a 3 week break
I don't know where you work, but are they accepting applications?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 19, 2020 20:57:26 GMT -5
I don't know where you work, but are they accepting applications? You'd have to leave the US for that.
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Post by ellie on May 20, 2020 0:36:06 GMT -5
There is a huge push to open trans-tasman borders asap. I doubt it will happen, but there's even discussion of opening for ski-season. Assuming we don't have a big case spike now lockdown is easing here, be prepared to be inundated with Aussies in the not too distant future! Come on over. We speak English. And understand Australian. We are pushing domestic tourism for our July school holidays so if all goes well I'd guess there will be some Aus-NZ arrangement in Aug.
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Post by ellie on May 20, 2020 0:50:09 GMT -5
I've only heard your side of the story. True
Two months is a drop in the ocean. Some companies allow a year or even more of unpaid holiday leave. One of my colleagues recently sold all her possessions and took many months off to both travel and spend time in her home country. I only took a month and a 3 week break I don't know where you work, but are they accepting applications? Well, we had a new guy join about 2 weeks ago. No Americans yet.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 20, 2020 0:56:26 GMT -5
True
I don't know where you work, but are they accepting applications? Well, we had a new guy join about 2 weeks ago. No Americans yet. Around here several people depend on people from the USA for their livlihood. However because of how risky the USA has become, it will be a long time before anyone from the USA is welcome here.
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Post by ellie on May 20, 2020 1:10:20 GMT -5
Well, we had a new guy join about 2 weeks ago. No Americans yet. Around here several people depend on people from the USA for their livlihood. However because of how risky the USA has become, it will be a long time before anyone from the USA is welcome here. Let's hope they find alternatives. I can't really see any regular travel from the US opening prior to the completion of a vaccination program here.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 20, 2020 3:38:09 GMT -5
Around here several people depend on people from the USA for their livlihood. However because of how risky the USA has become, it will be a long time before anyone from the USA is welcome here. Let's hope they find alternatives. I can't really see any regular travel from the US opening prior to the completion of a vaccination program here. I think you’re right Ellie. The US just doesn’t have it’s act together on Covid. Unless there is mass vaccination or something similar to what is available for HIV, travel to and from there is going to be so awkward. The possibility of a trans Tasman bubble is being worked on by our two countries, and we’re also looking at a bubble with the Pacific Islands, as there are many families split between NZ and the islands.
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