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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 23:58:10 GMT -5
its all there in black and white for anyone to read. i'll agree to disagree with your position. i don't follow people all that much i follow what God/Christ said and what the Holy Spirit moves me to do. Jesus was a fairly blunt individual he didn't pull any punches when dealing with folks i choose to do the same. i call it tough love and some people get riled up over that, so be it. do i detect a bit of wavering when it comes to the truth from you? thats not a good place to be in my estimation. Christ i don't believe ever dealt with an atheist so i doubt he finds them all that interesting. he was surrounded by God believers or pagan god believers from what i see in the bible. he was interested in changing sinners into God/Christ followers though. maybe you don't know what Jesus did in the bible either. never said anything about condemning anyone just denouncing their actions. come now Jesus never condoned sin he never participated in sin he loved the sinner and hated the sin. Yes he certainly went after pharisees and sadducees an scribes but he also called out just about every sin that he could too. Paul said with such a one not to eat, Christ said to treat someone as a heathen if they don't stop doing what they are doing after a few attempts at correction. then he also said let the tares grow. so when confronted with what appears to be conflicting scripture seek balance meaning a little of both. but above and beyond that Christ never forced charity and charity certainly isn't any kind of economic plan. [br If people here are the heathen then those verses you quoted make you quite the hypocrite, which Jesus condemned and do I ever GET how Jesus must have felt. But really what it all boils down to is you can’t see where you’re wrong therefore you can’t admit you’re wrong therefore you can’t change. Am I wavering? I feel like I am changing slightly to be less hypocritical. Change can look like wavering until it settles. We NEED change in our faith. It’s stagnant. Many are recognizing that here and are hoping and longing for change. We’re producing too many hypocrites that staunchly adhere to the traditions of men. how does quoting scripture make me a hypocrite when i have adhered to them? how is adhering to scripture a tradition of men? let me guess your also wavering on whats in the bible? faith in Christ is never stagnant...
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 0:00:08 GMT -5
I do not agree that Christ showed tough love. Tough love is an oxymoron, not love at all. This the type of love Christ had and we should all encompass it within our lives.
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 New International Version (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 IT DOES NOT DISHONOUR OTHERS, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 0:37:23 GMT -5
We are so fortunate to have Scott Morrison as our Prime Minister in Australia. He is very much a practising Christian, shows it by his actions.
Liked some comments that he made when addressing a Hillsong conference.
Morrison said while freedom of belief in Australia was fundamental, Christians needed to prioritise love over judgments and lectures. “That’s what we all need. That’s what our country needs. That’s what our nation needs. That’s what we’re here to do as Christians. Not here to judge. Not here to lecture. Just here to show the amazing love of God.
“My job is the same as yours: love God, love people. We’ve all got the same job.”
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2020 1:25:15 GMT -5
What day of the week should we meet for weekly fellowship? Should we accept blood transfusions? What is the mark of the beast? Should we serve in the military? Should we have wine or unfermented grape juice for communion? Should we have fellowship in buildings that are not homes? 1st day of the week....mat 28, mar 16, luke 24 john 20 there is nothing in the bible about transfusions for or against so do what you believe the HS wants you too.... it will be a mark in the hand or the forehead, you wont be able to do much without it... start in rev 13 and go forward from there John the baptists addressed this and its apparently a yes....luke 3 most likely wine...luke 22 no....acts 7 Some would argue that it's black and white to meet on the Sabbath and pagan to meet on Sunday. JWs argue that it's black and white to refuse to consume blood. There are many religious black and white interpretations of the mark of the beast. It was black and white for most W&F to refuse military service in some countries. If its black and white to have wine for communion, why do many meetings have grape juice instead? Workers arrange meetings in buildings other than homes. Are you sure it's black and white?
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2020 3:13:12 GMT -5
1st day of the week....mat 28, mar 16, luke 24 john 20 there is nothing in the bible about transfusions for or against so do what you believe the HS wants you too.... it will be a mark in the hand or the forehead, you wont be able to do much without it... start in rev 13 and go forward from there John the baptists addressed this and its apparently a yes....luke 3 most likely wine...luke 22 no....acts 7 Some would argue that it's black and white to meet on the Sabbath and pagan to meet on Sunday. JWs argue that it's black and white to refuse to consume blood. There are many religious black and white interpretations of the mark of the beast. It was black and white for most W&F to refuse military service in some countries. If its black and white to have wine for communion, why do many meetings have grape juice instead? Workers arrange meetings in buildings other than homes. Are you sure it's black and white? All the workers have done is to say temples made by hands apply to halls made for Christians to worship in and changed it to a home made by hands into a temple for people to worship in. Christians meet anywhere for fellowship be it a a home, a building, anywhere, but by saying one must worship in the home defeats the purpose and has made the home into a temple. The home, conventions or halls that is. God does not dwell in temples made by hands, be it a home or building but he dwells within the heart. Not a home or any kind of building made by man, is what it means.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2020 4:03:27 GMT -5
its all there in black and white for anyone to read. i'll agree to disagree with your position. i don't follow people all that much i follow what God/Christ said and what the Holy Spirit moves me to do. Jesus was a fairly blunt individual he didn't pull any punches when dealing with folks i choose to do the same. i call it tough love and some people get riled up over that, so be it. do i detect a bit of wavering when it comes to the truth from you? thats not a good place to be in my estimation. Christ i don't believe ever dealt with an atheist so i doubt he finds them all that interesting. he was surrounded by God believers or pagan god believers from what i see in the bible. he was interested in changing sinners into God/Christ followers though. maybe you don't know what Jesus did in the bible either. never said anything about condemning anyone just denouncing their actions. come now Jesus never condoned sin he never participated in sin he loved the sinner and hated the sin. Yes he certainly went after pharisees and sadducees an scribes but he also called out just about every sin that he could too. Paul said with such a one not to eat, Christ said to treat someone as a heathen if they don't stop doing what they are doing after a few attempts at correction. then he also said let the tares grow. so when confronted with what appears to be conflicting scripture seek balance meaning a little of both. but above and beyond that Christ never forced charity and charity certainly isn't any kind of economic plan. Luke 18:11-14 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
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Post by iam on May 18, 2020 7:36:52 GMT -5
[br If people here are the heathen then those verses you quoted make you quite the hypocrite, which Jesus condemned and do I ever GET how Jesus must have felt. But really what it all boils down to is you can’t see where you’re wrong therefore you can’t admit you’re wrong therefore you can’t change. Am I wavering? I feel like I am changing slightly to be less hypocritical. Change can look like wavering until it settles. We NEED change in our faith. It’s stagnant. Many are recognizing that here and are hoping and longing for change. We’re producing too many hypocrites that staunchly adhere to the traditions of men. how does quoting scripture make me a hypocrite when i have adhered to them? how is adhering to scripture a tradition of men? let me guess your also wavering on whats in the bible? faith in Christ is never stagnant... Wally you are far off. But you have the form, alright. The workers have been warning us for awhile about just having the form. That’s not enough. No WONDER Jesus said to his own people that the publicans and the harlots would make it heaven before us. Such staunch belief in their ancestors and one another but completely ignorant of the Christ. I’m not wavering at all from my belief in Jesus. it’s just that you’re not understanding. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Ignorance is bliss.
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Post by iam on May 18, 2020 7:53:26 GMT -5
We NEED change in our faith. It’s stagnant. Many are recognizing that here and are hoping and longing for change. We’re producing too many hypocrites that staunchly adhere to the traditions of men.
I don't think we need change in our faith (Hebrews 13:8). The Living Word is solidified in Christ, but never stagnant. But I agree that religion (traditions of men) is a boiling pot of hypocrisy.
I've dealt with a lot of poor people, but have observed that many are needy because they're just lazy. I've offered a few of them jobs, but they prefer a handout. Many are not poor helpless widows or indigent, but simply try to walk around a simple requirement, "The worker deserves his wages." (1 Timothy 5:18). Government stimulus usually consist of taking from those who work and giving it to those who won't work, and these programs often don't differentiate between healthy lazy people who won't work from people who can't work.
The best way government can stimulate an economy is to stay out of the way of those who create prosperity (capitalism). jmo
Change is absolutely critical in our faith. Without change things go stagnant. I love what a very faithful man said at our special meetings a few years ago “this needs shaking up”. That’s honest. I love that kind of honesty. But people are AFRAID of change. And maybe people don’t work for you because you’re not at understanding people? It kind of shows in how you describe them. It’s not very merciful. Maybe you should be an employee and not an employer? There’s not much understanding in many of our people let alone mercy. Jmo. Psalm 55:19 KJV [19] God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God. We SAY we fear God but we have no changes. It’s not God that needs to change. It’s us. Because we THINK we know God but our relationships with people Jesus was a FRIEND to is critical and condemning.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 14:21:07 GMT -5
how does quoting scripture make me a hypocrite when i have adhered to them? how is adhering to scripture a tradition of men? let me guess your also wavering on whats in the bible? faith in Christ is never stagnant... Wally you are far off. But you have the form, alright. The workers have been warning us for awhile about just having the form. That’s not enough. No WONDER Jesus said to his own people that the publicans and the harlots would make it heaven before us. Such staunch belief in their ancestors and one another but completely ignorant of the Christ. I’m not wavering at all from my belief in Jesus. it’s just that you’re not understanding. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Ignorance is bliss. by their fruits you shall know them...wavering is wavering no rocket science here to determine that....
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 14:24:58 GMT -5
1st day of the week....mat 28, mar 16, luke 24 john 20 there is nothing in the bible about transfusions for or against so do what you believe the HS wants you too.... it will be a mark in the hand or the forehead, you wont be able to do much without it... start in rev 13 and go forward from there John the baptists addressed this and its apparently a yes....luke 3 most likely wine...luke 22 no....acts 7 Some would argue that it's black and white to meet on the Sabbath and pagan to meet on Sunday. JWs argue that it's black and white to refuse to consume blood. There are many religious black and white interpretations of the mark of the beast. It was black and white for most W&F to refuse military service in some countries. If its black and white to have wine for communion, why do many meetings have grape juice instead? Workers arrange meetings in buildings other than homes. Are you sure it's black and white? this is where discernment comes in...i suspect you need some...
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 14:25:50 GMT -5
its all there in black and white for anyone to read. i'll agree to disagree with your position. i don't follow people all that much i follow what God/Christ said and what the Holy Spirit moves me to do. Jesus was a fairly blunt individual he didn't pull any punches when dealing with folks i choose to do the same. i call it tough love and some people get riled up over that, so be it. do i detect a bit of wavering when it comes to the truth from you? thats not a good place to be in my estimation. Christ i don't believe ever dealt with an atheist so i doubt he finds them all that interesting. he was surrounded by God believers or pagan god believers from what i see in the bible. he was interested in changing sinners into God/Christ followers though. maybe you don't know what Jesus did in the bible either. never said anything about condemning anyone just denouncing their actions. come now Jesus never condoned sin he never participated in sin he loved the sinner and hated the sin. Yes he certainly went after pharisees and sadducees an scribes but he also called out just about every sin that he could too. Paul said with such a one not to eat, Christ said to treat someone as a heathen if they don't stop doing what they are doing after a few attempts at correction. then he also said let the tares grow. so when confronted with what appears to be conflicting scripture seek balance meaning a little of both. but above and beyond that Christ never forced charity and charity certainly isn't any kind of economic plan. Luke 18:11-14 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. i've never made such a prayer in my whole life...i'm good with God....
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Post by Lee on May 18, 2020 15:01:04 GMT -5
The poor you always have with you.
Here you have the human condition, irrespective of the preacher or the politician.
Here is what the poor provides for you:
The poor is a floor for the value of the dollar.
The poor is a floor for the value of your behavior.
Without the poor, who would we be?
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2020 15:17:22 GMT -5
Some would argue that it's black and white to meet on the Sabbath and pagan to meet on Sunday. JWs argue that it's black and white to refuse to consume blood. There are many religious black and white interpretations of the mark of the beast. It was black and white for most W&F to refuse military service in some countries. If its black and white to have wine for communion, why do many meetings have grape juice instead? Workers arrange meetings in buildings other than homes. Are you sure it's black and white? this is where discernment comes in...i suspect you need some... Thank you! You have just confirmed that the bible is not so black and white after all.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 17:20:00 GMT -5
Some people may need to acquire a robe and walk around like they did over 2,000 years ago in the Middle East. Where laws & punishment were rigid; the order of the day. Where ‘attack’ and killing were the way to go with problem solving & communication.
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Post by xna on May 18, 2020 17:25:11 GMT -5
Simple math. Cares Act spending 2 trillion One time $1,200 check went to those families with an adjusted gross income of less than 75K of which there are about 100 million such families. 2T divided by 100M is $20,000 per family! BUT these families only got from 6% -12% of that money. The other 94% was diverted to companies. If you were laid off you had it better than being unemployed or retired.
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Post by matisse on May 18, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
We NEED change in our faith. It’s stagnant. Many are recognizing that here and are hoping and longing for change. We’re producing too many hypocrites that staunchly adhere to the traditions of men.
I don't think we need change in our faith (Hebrews 13:8). The Living Word is solidified in Christ, but never stagnant. But I agree that religion (traditions of men) is a boiling pot of hypocrisy.
I've dealt with a lot of poor people, but have observed that many are needy because they're just lazy. I've offered a few of them jobs, but they prefer a handout. Many are not poor helpless widows or indigent, but simply try to walk around a simple requirement, "The worker deserves his wages." (1 Timothy 5:18). Government stimulus usually consist of taking from those who work and giving it to those who won't work, and these programs often don't differentiate between healthy lazy people who won't work from people who can't work.
The best way government can stimulate an economy is to stay out of the way of those who create prosperity (capitalism). jmo
Were you creating "prosperity" for the woman you just fired? When was the last time she went on vacation?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 18:36:36 GMT -5
this is where discernment comes in...i suspect you need some... Thank you! You have just confirmed that the bible is not so black and white after all. actually the bible is pretty black and white your ability to discern that may be what is lacking
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 18:42:44 GMT -5
Simple math. Cares Act spending 2 trillion One time $1,200 check went to those families with an adjusted gross income of less than 75K of which there are about 100 million such families. 2T divided by 100M is $20,000 per family! BUT these families only got from 6% -12% of that money. The other 94% was diverted to companies. If you were laid off you had it better than being unemployed or retired. ummm at least some of the money that went to the corporations and small business's went to the families too through the PPP didn't it?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 18:53:33 GMT -5
Wally you are far off. But you have the form, alright. The workers have been warning us for awhile about just having the form. That’s not enough. No WONDER Jesus said to his own people that the publicans and the harlots would make it heaven before us. Such staunch belief in their ancestors and one another but completely ignorant of the Christ. I’m not wavering at all from my belief in Jesus. it’s just that you’re not understanding. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Ignorance is bliss. by their fruits you shall know them...wavering is wavering no rocket science here to determine that.... The good old 2x2 clichés. "Wavering". Much the same as "They are Weak". But of course when anybody got one of those labels you avoided them like Covid-19, just set them aside. No attempt was made to help and ease their burden. We will have to start a thread of 2x2 clichés, you tend to forget them after 50 years witch probably is a good thing, they were irrelevant.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 18, 2020 18:57:17 GMT -5
Thank you! You have just confirmed that the bible is not so black and white after all. actually the bible is pretty black and white your ability to discern that may be what is lacking There's a word for people who only see black and white.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 18:59:33 GMT -5
Dumb.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 18, 2020 19:00:27 GMT -5
]ummm at least some of the money that went to the corporations and small business's went to the families too through the PPP didn't it? No one is overseeing the program. How many votes does PPP count for?
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Post by xna on May 18, 2020 19:31:14 GMT -5
Simple math. Cares Act spending 2 trillion One time $1,200 check went to those families with an adjusted gross income of less than 75K of which there are about 100 million such families. 2T divided by 100M is $20,000 per family! BUT these families only got from 6% -12% of that money. The other 94% was diverted to companies. If you were laid off you had it better than being unemployed or retired. ummm at least some of the money that went to the corporations and small business's went to the families too through the PPP didn't it? Yes. Some money went to one man companies, but I see too much went to big corporations. I think it would have been better to give the money to the individual tax payers only. If they did it this way then 1T would have been enough. Simple system the IRS already knows how to send you money. Nothing for you to apply, for or do. If you make less than 75K per year you can surely live on 10k for two months. No? For those who don’t pay taxes or very little taxes then increase support for those with low income, not give handouts to the top. The minimum annual wage idea is catching on. A company which can’t cut costs to the bone and not have enough money to last 2 months is not likely not going to make it in the long term anyway. Hard times have always weeded our weak companies. For a few large employers and some businesses which are in the national interest we want not to fail, the government should step in like they did with GM. Funny how republicans have turned into socialists overnight. They have no problem sticking the next few generations with their corporate handout tab. One sure way to start inflation is by printing more money. JMT
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2020 20:15:04 GMT -5
One sure way to start inflation is by printing more money. JMT Of course, these days they create money electronically. Either way, increasing the money supply makes those with assets wealthier, and for those without assets its harder for them to get ahead. We're seeing Venezuela 2.0 played out all around the developed world. It will inevitably lead to poorly performing economies and widespread social unrest.
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Post by xna on May 18, 2020 20:42:29 GMT -5
One sure way to start inflation is by printing more money. JMT Of course, these days they create money electronically. Either way, increasing the money supply makes those with assets wealthier, and for those without assets its harder for them to get ahead. We're seeing Venezuela 2.0 played out all around the developed world. It will inevitably lead to poorly performing economies and widespread social unrest. More money chasing the same number of goods leads to inflation. I learned to live within my means because I didn't enjoy the alternative. With slow and steady inflation, I can arrange assets to at least keep up with inflation. I see globalization (writ large as China) as the main driver of deflation pressures. Not sure how to handle deflation. The USA has become addicted to imported low cost goods, all the while China has been prospering from productivity increases. As the USA becomes more of a service economy, the more the USA requires peace with China. I don't think trump understands this. Now he wants negative interest rates too. Japan hasn't figured a way out of that hole yet. A focus only on short term results isn't the way to run a country. A multinational can move among countries, but a country doesn't have that option. There is lots of things about money I don't understand. I find it's best to invest only in things I understand. For example the U.S. 10 Year Treasury Note is 0.7%, but I-bond has a annual composite rate of 1.06%
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 20:56:20 GMT -5
actually the bible is pretty black and white your ability to discern that may be what is lacking There's a word for people who only see black and white. confident, predictable, sure, unambiguous, straight laced, clear, steady, unshakable...
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 20:59:06 GMT -5
ummm at least some of the money that went to the corporations and small business's went to the families too through the PPP didn't it? Yes. Some money went to one man companies, but I see too much went to big corporations. I think it would have been better to give the money to the individual tax payers only. If they did it this way then 1T would have been enough. Simple system the IRS already knows how to send you money. Nothing for you to apply, for or do. If you make less than 75K per year you can surely live on 10k for two months. No? For those who don’t pay taxes or very little taxes then increase support for those with low income, not give handouts to the top. The minimum annual wage idea is catching on. A company which can’t cut costs to the bone and not have enough money to last 2 months is not likely not going to make it in the long term anyway. Hard times have always weeded our weak companies. For a few large employers and some businesses which are in the national interest we want not to fail, the government should step in like they did with GM. Funny how republicans have turned into socialists overnight. They have no problem sticking the next few generations with their corporate handout tab. One sure way to start inflation is by printing more money. JMT yeah but when it went to the big companies that was to ensure pay checks for employees, correct?
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Post by xna on May 18, 2020 21:11:12 GMT -5
Yes. Some money went to one man companies, but I see too much went to big corporations. I think it would have been better to give the money to the individual tax payers only. If they did it this way then 1T would have been enough. Simple system the IRS already knows how to send you money. Nothing for you to apply, for or do. If you make less than 75K per year you can surely live on 10k for two months. No? For those who don’t pay taxes or very little taxes then increase support for those with low income, not give handouts to the top. The minimum annual wage idea is catching on. A company which can’t cut costs to the bone and not have enough money to last 2 months is not likely not going to make it in the long term anyway. Hard times have always weeded our weak companies. For a few large employers and some businesses which are in the national interest we want not to fail, the government should step in like they did with GM. Funny how republicans have turned into socialists overnight. They have no problem sticking the next few generations with their corporate handout tab. One sure way to start inflation is by printing more money. JMT yeah but when it went to the big companies that was to ensure pay checks for employees, correct? Yes, I understand these loans turn into a gift if they don't fire the employee. Running the money thru a bank, then an employer adds risk of fraud. Who is going to audit all those employers and banks? Anytime you add links to a supply chain it costs money, slows things down, and increases the chances of errors and fraud.
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