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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 1:34:00 GMT -5
The public declaration was not what saved them. Do you really think they all decided right at the point of their public declaration. Case in point. This woman knew before her public declaration. Her Faith in Christ saved her. She knew she was a sinner before!, she knew Jesus canceled her debt before!, She trusted that he had before. Do you really think she did all this so she could be saved from her public declaration of love?. When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table.A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. - Luke 7:36-37 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” - Luke 7:50 They made a public declaration when they left what they were doing before others and followed Him. Rubbish. The story of Naaman says other wise. You have no idea what this woman did after that day.
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 1:41:39 GMT -5
So her faith happened at what point.? I say before she even saw Jesus. Why else did she go. The one with the bigger debt loves more. She loved Jesus before she even saw him, she knew the debt had been cancled Hence her motives and reactions. Not after Jesus said she was saved. but the debt had not been canceled yet when she came forward he had not died on the cross nor risen from the grave..but i see where your trying to go...everyone gets to heaven...that ain't biblical...oprah preaches that though maybe you should join her instead of the 2x2's... So she wasnt saved then if the debt had not been cancled. Do you even think about these things or just rattle off what ever fits 2x2 doctrine. This just flys in the face of what Jesus said about the 2 debitors and the love this woman showed Jesus. Ahh so Oprah cant be saved as well. Im not suprised. How about it she performed a few 2x2 rituals, that should seal the deal right?. After all the 2x2 rituals put the finishing touches on Christ's work. Not sure were I indicated everyone is saved?. That's not up to me.
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 1:58:03 GMT -5
Seems Jesus didnt dissaprove of alcohol... and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom asideand said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” - John 2:9-10 And didn't mind drinking it also.... with sinners...... But Jesus was sinless and he drank alcohol hmmmmmm...... 33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ - Luke 7:33-34 Seems the disciples liked the odd beverage as well.... Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! - Acts 2:14-15 Jesus frequented the temple and synagogue..... I think Jesus would approve of TV's as it would keep those nosey 2x2 zealots preoccupied instead of being in everyone else's business. This guilt trip stunt you are pulling "would Jesus do this", "what would Jesus say", again its a typical worker/zealot stunt and is spiritual abuse. What about the rest you posted? KJV bible only No Tv's No movies No music No internet No dancing No motor cars No jewelry No short hair (women) Dress code No alcohol No smoking No drugs No sex outside marriage No radios No going to other chruches I see nothing in the bible that abstaining from these things diminishes the finished work of Christ. Where does Jesus say anything makes his sacrifice ineffecftive?.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 2:27:16 GMT -5
Concerning Review, I liked to push his buttons, but it became increasingly apparent that the confrontational tone on TMB was winding him a bit too tight. I've heard that one or more well meaning tmb members contacted his boss, expressing concern for his wellbeing.
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 3:17:18 GMT -5
IF we need to go through “the public”. (In this case , the workers ) to receive salvation , then we just gave “the public” the right and the power to also remove it. This is what the 2x2 church would teach . You need mans approval , to stay on “ the list “ “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”- Jesus Alvin Ps - of course , a private individual decision to follow Jesus will not prevent you from sharing it publicly , like these guys singing m.youtube.com/watch?v=rnLrYU7oauE Exactly. But all the zealots hear when trying to explain this is. Professing is bad period. Meetings are bad period. Missions are bad period. ect ect ect. I don't believe anyone has said that once. How they arrive at this conclusion parralels with how they read the scriptures. Critical thinking is not applied.
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 3:33:29 GMT -5
It is the way you live your life, and relate to all other people. Standing up for one minute, does not bring that about.James 4:17 declares, "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." What James refers to here is the public declaration of faith. If we live exclaiming to everyone that we're Christians, but our actions do not in any way back up our claims, it comes to show that our public declarations mean nothing to us. A life lived conforming to accepted moral standards is much more important than a one minute ritual. its a given that there are people who will make the declaration and then turn around and do whatever they want but that doesn't cover those who do take their declaration seriously and serve God.... Christ talks about them here: Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Haha I love how everyone who quotes these verses removes themselves from the equation and it's always talking about someone else.
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Post by speak on Mar 24, 2020 4:12:45 GMT -5
Why do words have to be swapped is that not adding to and taking away? To help you understand that your practicing and condoning rituals for salvation. I mean I can see why you won't do it, its quite confronting to realise you have been doing something for a lifetime thats Dung as Paul would say. Im so glad the 2x2 God is not like the Goddess Cybele. Some of those rituals make me shudder. I'm starting to see that you a know all and that nobody else knows anything, that smacks of selfrighteousness. Oh well time to stop communicating with you, thanks but no thanks.
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 4:48:23 GMT -5
To help you understand that your practicing and condoning rituals for salvation. I mean I can see why you won't do it, its quite confronting to realise you have been doing something for a lifetime thats Dung as Paul would say. Im so glad the 2x2 God is not like the Goddess Cybele. Some of those rituals make me shudder. I'm starting to see that you a know all and that nobody else knows anything, that smacks of selfrighteousness. Oh well time to stop communicating with you, thanks but no thanks. And thinking you can do what you think the blood of Christ cannot is not self righteous?. Give me a break. Have a good day 😉. Remember Romans 4. Circumcision/professing. Heres a snippet. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! - Romans 4:10
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Post by iam on Mar 24, 2020 4:56:37 GMT -5
Well except the bible does encourage women to have long hair and a dress code(ie, not to wear costly apparel), and the bible does indicate baptism is necessary, and as far as sex outside of marriage, from a female perspective that is just plain SAFE for spiritual and mental health. But I really appreciate that you challenge the thinking of everyday 2&2s. Comon put your thinking cap on. Just about every 2x2 woman today would be be wearing costly apparel in comparison to the women you are using to justify a dress code. Some of the 2x2 problem is we just do not grasp the opression these people were living under. We are not living in poverty. The worst dressed 2x2 women is still probably hardly comparible. If your going to hold to the long hair tradition you may wanna check every other tradition, what about women should shut there mouths? gonna hold to that one?. They do not apply literally in the 21st centuary. Did the thief get baptized?. I love the thief on the cross, he puts the spotlight on all sorts of made up rot. How about the sinner woman?. Or others that Jesus healed. No mention of baptism and a it being a manditory requirement for salvation. Sure sex outside of marriage can be destructive. What did Jesus say? "neither do I condemn you". When was the only time Jesus said "your going to hell"?. That's right, Chuck. But I do feel the bible is still the right example to follow. The costly apparel...that kinda turns my stomach. Whether we're living in poverty or not isn't the issue. And there are some that WERE living in poverty that don't come to meetings anymore because they don't fit in to OUR standards. The hair thing...some women can't have long hair. Too difficult for their abilities. I've cut my hair to make it more manageable but I feel best in line with scriptures when I have long hair. But like the scriptures say, if any be CONTENTIOUS, we have no such customs. So in other words do what the scriptures say yourself but if anyone else has a problem with it, no big deal. It doesn't bother me at all if a women comes to meetings with short hair or makeup and nail polish. They're doing it all the time. It's not the example I want to follow due to scriptures but their choice is not mine and although it causes separation because I may not appear as attractive and therefore approved by THEM that does not matter to me. It's just not about this life. Baptism...Jesus was baptised. John baptised. Baptism is fulfilling scriptures. The thief on the cross had the right desire. He didn't need to he baptized because no doubt he would have been willing for it had he had the opportunity. But then, he was right there on the cross with Jesus. What a powerful influence for repentance. I don't see much of Jesus in the church today. No wonder there would be resistance to baptism. The sinner woman...Jesus did not justify the sin, he justified the woman by forgiving her. Jesus never ever lived or taught that sin was acceptable. It was forgiveable. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin NO MORE. Many many women are so damaged today because of their sins and there's no disciples like Jesus left here on earth to be of any help. We have such little influence of Jesus in the church today that there's no compassion for these souls anymore. Just tons of lip service. Same as here. Everywhere really.
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Post by iam on Mar 24, 2020 5:07:14 GMT -5
Thank you Chuck for your thought provoking and tradition challenging posts. So good to see. I have a question for you about not doing anything for our salvation...from what Jesus taught, it seems there is something we MUST do for our salvation. Would appreciate your thoughts on this... Matthew 25:40-41 KJV And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. [41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: I would first ask, Where does it suggest we must do something to complete the already finished work of Christ?. I think your reading with the mindset that salvation has not been completed. If you read this thinking salvation is not complete than I can see why one would assume works salvation. I read this as, if you overlook those in need, lookout or you will find yourself standing on the left hand side. See the grace granted to you and let it flow onto others. This in no way suggests one will lose his salvation because you cant assume he is talking to only true believers and in no way suggests you must look after the needy to earn salvation. Well that's not exactly what the scriptures say but that's definitely what MANY believe. Many there be that go that way. Yes, our salvation according to scriptures, IS dependent on how we treat a brother that is in a bad situation. Sometimes you can't help because they won't let you. But how we do our "works" today is pretty much every man for himself. Faith without works is dead. I think people don't understand what works really means. SALVATION has been completed. But we have a work to do in order to attain salvation. It's all about relationships. It's not about money, natural works, looking good, looking after our own family and neglecting God's family. But it seems no one gets it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 5:57:23 GMT -5
but the debt had not been canceled yet when she came forward he had not died on the cross nor risen from the grave..but i see where your trying to go...everyone gets to heaven...that ain't biblical...oprah preaches that though maybe you should join her instead of the 2x2's... So she wasnt saved then if the debt had not been cancled. Do you even think about these things or just rattle off what ever fits 2x2 doctrine. you might heed your own post on that some of the stuff you spout is preposterous...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 6:03:41 GMT -5
its a given that there are people who will make the declaration and then turn around and do whatever they want but that doesn't cover those who do take their declaration seriously and serve God.... Christ talks about them here: Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Haha I love how everyone who quotes these verses removes themselves from the equation and it's always talking about someone else. who said i am going to 100% make it?
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Post by chuck on Mar 24, 2020 7:04:45 GMT -5
Haha I love how everyone who quotes these verses removes themselves from the equation and it's always talking about someone else. who said i am going to 100% make it? Geez Wally. Read what you just wrote. You fully believe you can save yourself. Please please consider what Jesus say's about his yoke is easy and his burden is light. He is saying the burden of ritual and performace is too much. What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. - Romans 4:1-5 How much more will one love Christ when they see he has already saved us! 100%. Picture the women washing Jesus's feet and his words of those who could not pay the debt, particularly the larger debt. The reaction is a living faith!. Its so much better than you can imagine wally.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 7:19:45 GMT -5
who said i am going to 100% make it? Geez Wally. Read what you just wrote. You fully believe you can save yourself. Please please consider what Jesus say's about his yoke is easy and his burden is light. He is saying the burden of ritual and performace is too much. What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. - Romans 4:1-5 How much more will one love Christ when they see he has already saved us! 100%. Picture the women washing Jesus's feet and his words of those who could not pay the debt, particularly the larger debt. The reaction is a living faith!. Its so much better than you can imagine wally. thats not what i said i said you must make a public stand for Christ to be saved....nice try though if someone hands you a gift its not really yours until you take it into your hands..the same goes for the gift of salvation from Christ its not yours until you make your stand/hand wave/alter call/born again/verbal commitment....etc...etc
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 12:25:15 GMT -5
I wonder what happened that he was so nasty on here? I have never heard a worker talk like he did. I was shocked to be honest. Not like I remembered them. Review must have been before my time on here. Which is recent. I think I would be delighted to get to know him. Sounds like he must have gone AGAINST the flow. Jesus did the same. The Pharisees went against the flow.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 13:15:51 GMT -5
Thoughts expressed on this thread led me to consider the following...
Hebrews 6:3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—
6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
7 When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing.
8 But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it.
9 Dear friends, even though we are talking this way, we really don’t believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.
10 For God is not unjust. He will not forget how hard you have worked for him and how you have shown your love to him by caring for other believers, as you still do.
11 Our great desire is that you will keep on loving others as long as life lasts, in order to make certain that what you hope for will come true.
12 Then you will not become spiritually dull and indifferent. Instead, you will follow the example of those who are going to inherit God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.
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Post by iam on Mar 24, 2020 14:16:07 GMT -5
Review must have been before my time on here. Which is recent. I think I would be delighted to get to know him. Sounds like he must have gone AGAINST the flow. Jesus did the same. The Pharisees went against the flow. How did the Pharisees go against the flow? The WERE the flow. Jesus stood against them. They hated that.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 14:26:28 GMT -5
The Pharisees went against the flow. How did the Pharisees go against the flow? The WERE the flow. Jesus stood against them. They hated that. It depends on how you define "the flow". The Sadducees ran the Temple and Jewish religious system and supported Hellenisation. The Pharisees opposed them and were the "back to the bible" people of their day.
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Post by iam on Mar 24, 2020 15:00:38 GMT -5
How did the Pharisees go against the flow? The WERE the flow. Jesus stood against them. They hated that. It depends on how you define "the flow". The Sadducees ran the Temple and Jewish religious system and supported Hellenisation. The Pharisees opposed them and were the "back to the bible" people of their day. The Sadducees and the Pharisees and the hypocrites and the CHIEF PRIESTS and the ELDERS and the rulers of GOD'S PEOPLE all went against the flow of One, only One. Jesus. That speaks loud and clear to me for today.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 15:13:25 GMT -5
It depends on how you define "the flow". The Sadducees ran the Temple and Jewish religious system and supported Hellenisation. The Pharisees opposed them and were the "back to the bible" people of their day. The Sadducees and the Pharisees and the hypocrites and the CHIEF PRIESTS and the ELDERS and the rulers of GOD'S PEOPLE all went against the flow of One, only One. Jesus. That speaks loud and clear to me for today. True. In the same way today, few are willing to go against the flow to stand with the lowly Jesus. Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 17:05:26 GMT -5
The Sadducees and the Pharisees and the hypocrites and the CHIEF PRIESTS and the ELDERS and the rulers of GOD'S PEOPLE all went against the flow of One, only One. Jesus. That speaks loud and clear to me for today. True. In the same way today, few are willing to go against the flow to stand with the lowly Jesus. Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know...
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Post by nathan on Mar 24, 2020 17:34:28 GMT -5
True. In the same way today, few are willing to go against the flow to stand with the lowly Jesus. Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know... And Try to ban that brother and those like him from posting on TMB because they disagree with his view on certain doctrine, belief, and events and so on.... Why, stoop that low. What happens to freedom of speech? You speak your belief and I speak on my belief and let the readers decide for themselves.
I see the atheists and others posted all kind of topics on the main board and I don't see him jump on them for posting these things on the main page, at all.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 18:32:56 GMT -5
True. In the same way today, few are willing to go against the flow to stand with the lowly Jesus. Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know... You haven't answered my question... Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? Why I ask is because I think his outspokenness was towards religious fundamentalists and religious abusers rather than unbelievers.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 18:45:40 GMT -5
is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know... And Try to ban that brother and those like him from posting on TMB because they disagree with his view on certain doctrine, belief, and events and so on.... Why, stoop that low. What happens to freedom of speech? You speak your belief and I speak on my belief and let the readers decide for themselves.
I see the atheists and others posted all kind of topics on the main board and I don't see him jump on them for posting these things on the main page, at all.
I can't imagine me complaining to admin on the grounds that someone disagrees with me. That's another false accusation Nathan. If I laid a complaint it would be around abusive or disruptive behaviour. Typically I would post my concerns on the open board rather than going to admin. I don't care what you do off of the TMB main board.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 18:48:54 GMT -5
is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know... You haven't answered my question... Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? Why I ask is because I think his outspokenness was towards religious fundamentalists and religious abusers rather than unbelievers. there is no record of Jesus even meeting with an atheist or a witch(that should tell you something right there) there is a record of a soothsayer/diviner pestering Paul though and what did he do? he cast the spirit out of her he did not take her side or enabler her or coddled her something that Jesus would probably have done the same...now answer mine....
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Post by nathan on Mar 24, 2020 19:03:13 GMT -5
And Try to ban that brother and those like him from posting on TMB because they disagree with his view on certain doctrine, belief, and events and so on.... Why, stoop that low. What happens to freedom of speech? You speak your belief and I speak on my belief and let the readers decide for themselves.
I see the atheists and others posted all kind of topics on the main board and I don't see him jump on them for posting these things on the main page, at all.
I can't imagine me complaining to admin on the grounds that someone disagrees with me. That's another false accusation Nathan. If I laid a complaint it would be around abusive or disruptive behaviour. Typically I would post my concerns on the open board rather than going to admin. I don't care what you do off of the TMB main board. You KNEW and I told the readers NOT to mention the STUFF on the main board because the Admin. has asked us NOT to do it. You and your cronies keep on bring it back, when I replied their posts then you and them jump on the band wagon and cry to the Admin. about me for disrupting the board.
You and your cronies called it Science fiction, but there are topics mention on the Main board talks about science fiction and I don't see you and your cronies raise your concern about it or get them off or ban from posting.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 20:00:10 GMT -5
True. In the same way today, few are willing to go against the flow to stand with the lowly Jesus. Did Jesus beat up on Atheists and witches? is there an example where Jesus took the side of an atheist or a witch over a brother? is there even an example where Jesus enabled an atheist or a witch to continue doing their sin unchallenged? curious minds want to know... Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.” Jesus was not afraid to rebuke a brother who was wrong.
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Post by fixit on Mar 24, 2020 20:04:39 GMT -5
I can't imagine me complaining to admin on the grounds that someone disagrees with me. That's another false accusation Nathan. If I laid a complaint it would be around abusive or disruptive behaviour. Typically I would post my concerns on the open board rather than going to admin. I don't care what you do off of the TMB main board. You KNEW and I told the readers NOT to mention the STUFF on the main board because the Admin. has asked us NOT to do it. You and your cronies keep on bring it back, when I replied their posts then you and them jump on the band wagon and cry to the Admin. about me for disrupting the board.
You and your cronies called it Science fiction, but there are topics mention on the Main board talks about science fiction and I don't see you and your cronies raise your concern about it or get them off or ban from posting.
You asked me to let it die, which was actually one of your better ideas.
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