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Post by slowtosee on Oct 16, 2019 9:01:32 GMT -5
Why would you worry about others if that's not going to happen? Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263 The Exploitation of children and watching them crying and literally being scared about their future by “ climate change activists “ is a similarity imo Traumatizing Alvin
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 9:51:45 GMT -5
But that’s his business. It doesn’t pay to hit people over the head with it esp young children. If they want to know what happens if somebody’s bad then it’s time to tell them but not throw it at them in threatening words or use it to keep them obedient. It’s better to see a sermon then to hear it for any age. Yes, I know that the Bible says that but when people read that to take it in should be old enough by then to realize it’s like criminal behaviors carrying just repercussions. NO it was not "his business!"
It is "our business" to not be scared that when we die we will go to an everlasting lake of fire just because we haven't believed in all the rules doled out by someone who may have existed or may not have existed -but even if he did exist was later made into a of a mythical character to control every aspect of our lives.That’s the point of it being Christ’s business. If children learn God is love then their faith in his fair and just judgment grows with their understanding of him. Thus there is no real fear in knowing the Christ’s business will be fair and just. It’s about faith, Dmmcgood! And it ripens with understanding. Jesus is not into scaring the beewhilkers out of children. Fact is he’s taken extra care to let even his Apostles know that the little children are very important to him. His love for the little, young and innocent abounds in the Bible! One of my favorite verses says: “He shall feed his flock like a shepherd,: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosum, and shall gently lead those that are with young.” Isaiah 40:11 As children learn their parents aren’t into harming them though correcting often, so can children learn that Jesus really loves them and doesn’t seek to scare the living daylights out of them! Again, it’s humans that err in pushing the hardness of their thoughted reality and making it something it was never meant to be.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 9:54:52 GMT -5
I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. Of course, you are an adult. It is a gospel of love right up until it is a gospel of eternal damnation. Ever burning lakes of fire. He killed his son. You sugar coat it and present the killing of another human being as a loving concept. God killed his son. It has nothing to do with love except there would be fewer followers if it was told without the metaphors. A living human being was nailed to a cross and you say it was not horrific? The Romans did it because it was horrific. No one says "I love you with a crucifixion." One human does not have the right to "give" another human being as a sacrifice. Not only was there human sacrifice but the threat of missing out on heaven. More sugar coating. But the story is still not for children. The Father did not kill his Son, he resurrected him!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 10:01:10 GMT -5
I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. One should NEVER assume that life in one professing family is anything like life in another professing family, no matter how alike they appear to be. It seemed to me what the hellfire and damnation preaching that shows negative effects in children is when some parents used the preachers’ such teachings against the children to scare them into obedience whereas other children likely having heard the same preaching that are not negatively affected is because the parents kept the religious scare tactics out of their correcting their children. Just like I always was told that because God loved us is why he sent his only begotten Son to sacrifice for our sins. It was about love not about negative connotations.
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Post by Grant on Oct 16, 2019 10:15:24 GMT -5
Yes there are consequences, that's life. We will get hurt if we run out on to the road, go to jail if we steal, everything has a consequence, good or bad. Be tired next day if we stay up late, get sick if we eat too much wrong food, everything has a consequence.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 11:01:27 GMT -5
I don't know anymore. I used to think that it did. I have become more skeptical since being on here over the years. I think it definitely fits some, but not as many as I once thought I guess. Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves..." Updated for today, "For when the non-Christians, which do not believe in the religious system of Christianity, do by nature the things which Christ lived and taught, these, though not going to a Christian church, are Christians unto themselves" Did not Jesus say that there would be many people saved, yet surprised on the day of judgement, wondering when they ever did anything for and in the name of Jesus?
Ha, Christian by default, all because an atheist was kind, compassionate and loving! If that's the case there are going to be a lot of humanist atheists in heaven.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 12:05:30 GMT -5
I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. Of course, you are an adult. It is a gospel of love right up until it is a gospel of eternal damnation. Ever burning lakes of fire. He killed his son. You sugar coat it and present the killing of another human being as a loving concept. God killed his son. It has nothing to do with love except there would be fewer followers if it was told without the metaphors. A living human being was nailed to a cross and you say it was not horrific? The Romans did it because it was horrific. No one says "I love you with a crucifixion." One human does not have the right to "give" another human being as a sacrifice. Not only was there human sacrifice but the threat of missing out on heaven. More sugar coating. But the story is still not for children. It's all about love until it's not. I agree with you. If the bible was just about love and love in action then I wouldn't have a problem with it being told to children. But it's not. There is the enticement of reward and with that also comes the threat of eternal torment. It's not a kids story.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 12:11:52 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263 The Exploitation of children and watching them crying and literally being scared about their future by “ climate change activists “ is a similarity imo Traumatizing Alvin Is it? One is proven by science to be very real and the other has not been proven. And, we aren't preaching this to young kids. If we were doing that I would agree with you. That kind of scare tactic is never right for young children. There are enough things we need to teach them that are scary but necessary like not running out in the road for example. The science says that if we don't do something very soon it will be too late to deter a catastrophic sequence of natural events. Our solar system warms and cools all the time, but we have never happened this fast. We are definitely contributing because of the way carbon interacts with the environment. It's out of balance and some of it is by natural causes and some of it is brought on by us. People need to be aware of that or there is nothing we will do to try and prevent real problems. If the kids are reading the science that supports this and coming to their own conclusions then good for them. It's their world we are handing to them and they should have some say about it. But once again people ignore the science in favor of what they want to believe.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 12:13:14 GMT -5
Of course, you are an adult. It is a gospel of love right up until it is a gospel of eternal damnation. Ever burning lakes of fire. He killed his son. You sugar coat it and present the killing of another human being as a loving concept. God killed his son. It has nothing to do with love except there would be fewer followers if it was told without the metaphors. A living human being was nailed to a cross and you say it was not horrific? The Romans did it because it was horrific. No one says "I love you with a crucifixion." One human does not have the right to "give" another human being as a sacrifice. Not only was there human sacrifice but the threat of missing out on heaven. More sugar coating. But the story is still not for children. The Father did not kill his Son, he resurrected him! There is only one reason why someone would need to be resurrected. He was killed first or died of natural causes. Crucifixion is not natural causes.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 12:29:05 GMT -5
The Father did not kill his Son, he resurrected him! There is only one reason why someone would need to be resurrected. He was killed first or died of natural causes. Crucifixion is not natural causes. True! But that doesn’t change things.
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 12:37:31 GMT -5
There is only one reason why someone would need to be resurrected. He was killed first or died of natural causes. Crucifixion is not natural causes. True! But that doesn’t change things. Not sure what you mean by 'But that doesn't change things'? You said 'the father didn't kill his son, he resurrected him'. But he had to be killed first in order for God to resurrect him. Clearly he had to be killed first in order to do the other.
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Post by slowtosee on Oct 16, 2019 12:48:38 GMT -5
The Exploitation of children and watching them crying and literally being scared about their future by “ climate change activists “ is a similarity imo Traumatizing Alvin Is it? One is proven by science to be very real and the other has not been proven. And, we aren't preaching this to young kids. If we were doing that I would agree with you. That kind of scare tactic is never right for young children. There are enough things we need to teach them that are scary but necessary like not running out in the road for example. The science says that if we don't do something very soon it will be too late to deter a catastrophic sequence of natural events. Our solar system warms and cools all the time, but we have never happened this fast. We are definitely contributing because of the way carbon interacts with the environment. It's out of balance and some of it is by natural causes and some of it is brought on by us. People need to be aware of that or there is nothing we will do to try and prevent real problems. If the kids are reading the science that supports this and coming to their own conclusions then good for them. It's their world we are handing to them and they should have some say about it. But once again people ignore the science in favor of what they want to believe. Even if it were true , children should not be exploited Alvin Climatology has become a political party with totalitarian tendencies,” she charges. “If you don’t support the UN consensus on human-caused global warming, if you express the slightest skepticism, you are a ‘climate-change denier,’ a stooge of Donald Trump, a quasi-fascist who must be banned from the scientific community.” These days, the climatology mainstream accepts only data that reinforce its hypothesis that humanity is behind global warming. Those daring to take an interest in possible natural causes of climactic variation—such as solar shifts or the earth’s oscillations—aren’t well regarded in the scientific community, to put it mildly. The rhetoric of the alarmists, it’s worth noting, has increasingly moved from “global warming” to “climate change,” which can mean anything. That shift got its start back in 1992, when the UN widened its range of environmental concern to include every change that human activities might be causing in nature, casting a net so wide that few human actions could escape it. . www.city-journal.org/global-warming
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Post by snow on Oct 16, 2019 13:19:27 GMT -5
Is it? One is proven by science to be very real and the other has not been proven. And, we aren't preaching this to young kids. If we were doing that I would agree with you. That kind of scare tactic is never right for young children. There are enough things we need to teach them that are scary but necessary like not running out in the road for example. The science says that if we don't do something very soon it will be too late to deter a catastrophic sequence of natural events. Our solar system warms and cools all the time, but we have never happened this fast. We are definitely contributing because of the way carbon interacts with the environment. It's out of balance and some of it is by natural causes and some of it is brought on by us. People need to be aware of that or there is nothing we will do to try and prevent real problems. If the kids are reading the science that supports this and coming to their own conclusions then good for them. It's their world we are handing to them and they should have some say about it. But once again people ignore the science in favor of what they want to believe. Even if it were true , children should not be exploited Alvin Climatology has become a political party with totalitarian tendencies,” she charges. “If you don’t support the UN consensus on human-caused global warming, if you express the slightest skepticism, you are a ‘climate-change denier,’ a stooge of Donald Trump, a quasi-fascist who must be banned from the scientific community.” These days, the climatology mainstream accepts only data that reinforce its hypothesis that humanity is behind global warming. Those daring to take an interest in possible natural causes of climactic variation—such as solar shifts or the earth’s oscillations—aren’t well regarded in the scientific community, to put it mildly. The rhetoric of the alarmists, it’s worth noting, has increasingly moved from “global warming” to “climate change,” which can mean anything. That shift got its start back in 1992, when the UN widened its range of environmental concern to include every change that human activities might be causing in nature, casting a net so wide that few human actions could escape it. . www.city-journal.org/global-warmingThat's right. Isn't that what I said? The children in Jesus camp were between the ages of about 4 and 8. It was horrific to watch. And young children don't need to be preached at about global warming either. It's not necessary. So you don't think that we have reached a level in climate change where it's necessary to wake people up? If not now, when? When it's too late to stop. From the research I have seen, we aren't far away from a point of no return. It will be devastating for coastal cities and it's already starting to impact some of the smaller islands. Some islands have already started the evacuation of their citizens because of encroaching water and the knowledge that they can't stay there anymore. Is it fear mongering when the threat of what we continue doing are very real or are they necessary? I have benefited from the oil and gas industry all my life but we do need to make some changes. I see no benefit from short term gain if long term problems could be diverted by just acknowledging that if we can change some of how we use our oil and gas and use some alternative ways of making energy we could hopefully lesson the impact on our world for our children. www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/rising-seas-force-marshall-islands-relocate-elevate-artificial-islands/www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/three-islands-disappeared-past-year-climate-change-blame-ncna1015316www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 16, 2019 13:22:22 GMT -5
I was told nothing that made me decide to profess, I was moved to profess by Gods Holy Spirit. So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians? Sorry,- speak, -Did I miss your answer to my above post?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 16:41:28 GMT -5
True! But that doesn’t change things. Not sure what you mean by 'But that doesn't change things'? You said 'the father didn't kill his son, he resurrected him'. But he had to be killed first in order for God to resurrect him. Clearly he had to be killed first in order to do the other. It’s all about faith in the love of God. Jesus showed his Apostles he had the power of resurrection in resurrecting Lazarus after 4 days in the grave! It’s hard to believe a corruptioned body can be restored to incorruption. But then we do that to ourselves by doubting in the infinite power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding of the God of heaven. A lot of disbelief is caused by how you were brought up! And only God can undo that! And I pray he does! I find it comforting to know that God is from everlasting to everlasting. That he’s always there nevervasleep, never too tired or pressed like humans get with one another. As John said, God is love. We can’t be visualizing God in human terms because that defeats us as you’ve pointed out. God gave his only begotten Son because he loved the world. What mankind did to him is something that the power of God could change by giving him resurrection and eternal life. Otherwords, Jesus defeated Satan!s grip of death in mankind. Through his own death, resurrection and eternal presence!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 16:49:12 GMT -5
Is it? One is proven by science to be very real and the other has not been proven. And, we aren't preaching this to young kids. If we were doing that I would agree with you. That kind of scare tactic is never right for young children. There are enough things we need to teach them that are scary but necessary like not running out in the road for example. The science says that if we don't do something very soon it will be too late to deter a catastrophic sequence of natural events. Our solar system warms and cools all the time, but we have never happened this fast. We are definitely contributing because of the way carbon interacts with the environment. It's out of balance and some of it is by natural causes and some of it is brought on by us. People need to be aware of that or there is nothing we will do to try and prevent real problems. If the kids are reading the science that supports this and coming to their own conclusions then good for them. It's their world we are handing to them and they should have some say about it. But once again people ignore the science in favor of what they want to believe. Even if it were true , children should not be exploited Alvin Climatology has become a political party with totalitarian tendencies,” she charges. “If you don’t support the UN consensus on human-caused global warming, if you express the slightest skepticism, you are a ‘climate-change denier,’ a stooge of Donald Trump, a quasi-fascist who must be banned from the scientific community.” These days, the climatology mainstream accepts only data that reinforce its hypothesis that humanity is behind global warming. Those daring to take an interest in possible natural causes of climactic variation—such as solar shifts or the earth’s oscillations—aren’t well regarded in the scientific community, to put it mildly. The rhetoric of the alarmists, it’s worth noting, has increasingly moved from “global warming” to “climate change,” which can mean anything. That shift got its start back in 1992, when the UN widened its range of environmental concern to include every change that human activities might be causing in nature, casting a net so wide that few human actions could escape it. . www.city-journal.org/global-warmingChildren aren’t without ears and eyes. As parents and adults around them discuss or make changes in the normal way they’ve been living doing children pick up on that. It might cause some fear in some , others just stay observant and adapt as they see their adults adapt. And as they grow and mature they begin understanding what and the why’s. I remember a year long fearful stay in an orphanage at the age of 2. I couldn’t understand nor could I balance what was going on. Time brought changes and we were removed and taken to our maternal grandmother. I almost instantly began to accommodate the past trauma had passed and that the present was going to be okay and relied on my adults to figure out the short term future. I suppose , there are some deep layers of that childhood trauma but a strength developed from that set a path that I have a bit of control and a lot of ability to adapt!
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 16, 2019 18:42:13 GMT -5
Yes there are consequences, that's life. We will get hurt if we run out on to the road, go to jail if we steal, everything has a consequence, good or bad. Be tired next day if we stay up late, get sick if we eat too much wrong food, everything has a consequence. And Sant Claus won't come.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 19:04:19 GMT -5
Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves..." Updated for today, "For when the non-Christians, which do not believe in the religious system of Christianity, do by nature the things which Christ lived and taught, these, though not going to a Christian church, are Christians unto themselves" Did not Jesus say that there would be many people saved, yet surprised on the day of judgement, wondering when they ever did anything for and in the name of Jesus?
Ha, Christian by default, all because an atheist was kind, compassionate and loving! If that's the case there are going to be a lot of humanist atheists in heaven. Aww, but it says they have to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God for eternal salvation. Always a catch, you see! 😉
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 16, 2019 19:04:58 GMT -5
Yes there are consequences, that's life. We will get hurt if we run out on to the road, go to jail if we steal, everything has a consequence, good or bad. Be tired next day if we stay up late, get sick if we eat too much wrong food, everything has a consequence. And Sant Claus won't come. Did he ever? 😁
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 16, 2019 19:18:45 GMT -5
And Sant Claus won't come. Did he ever? 😁 Give time, we realized that one was a hoax.
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Post by speak on Oct 16, 2019 19:47:08 GMT -5
So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians? Sorry,- speak, -Did I miss your answer to my above post?
If you didn't already know I live in NZ and there is a time difference And I have been at work today so a little patience is a wonderful thing. I will answer you latter on.
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Post by snow on Oct 17, 2019 11:53:08 GMT -5
Ha, Christian by default, all because an atheist was kind, compassionate and loving! If that's the case there are going to be a lot of humanist atheists in heaven. Aww, but it says they have to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God for eternal salvation. Always a catch, you see! 😉 Yes with Gods there is always a catch. They're tricky like that!
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Post by speak on Oct 17, 2019 14:40:02 GMT -5
I was told nothing that made me decide to profess, I was moved to profess by Gods Holy Spirit. So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians?No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10.
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Post by snow on Oct 18, 2019 13:09:42 GMT -5
So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians? No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10. Wow! You got to decide if you could go to meetings or not at age 10. I wish. I had to go until I wrote my last exam in grade 12 and I left my province by midnight that night. Never went to a meeting again.
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Post by Grant on Oct 18, 2019 14:11:47 GMT -5
So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians? No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10. Did you have one parent who was not professing meaning was there someone at home to look after you while the others went to meeting?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 18, 2019 16:24:13 GMT -5
So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians? No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10. OK. Thanks, I didn't mean to be impatient or nosy, -I just couldn't understand.
So, at least, -you did hear all the Christian doctrine until the age of 10, like the rest of us.
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Post by speak on Oct 18, 2019 22:22:27 GMT -5
No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10. Wow! You got to decide if you could go to meetings or not at age 10. I wish. I had to go until I wrote my last exam in grade 12 and I left my province by midnight that night. Never went to a meeting again. My father asked if I wanted to go and I said no. I returned at the age of 28 from promptings of the Holy Spirit.
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Post by speak on Oct 18, 2019 22:24:01 GMT -5
No, I was raised in the fellowship but stopped going about the age of 10. Yes I did go to those meetings until the age of 10. Did you have one parent who was not professing meaning was there someone at home to look after you while the others went to meeting? Both my parents were professing, one of my elder brothers was at home.
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