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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 21:24:09 GMT -5
You have no worries about that do you, as you have stated you don't believe so how can it affect you? Personally I am not worried about it but I do worry about the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs. And to make it worse they are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time. This is not a healthy environment for children. The christian religion teaches that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know. you just chewed up the salvation story but good there rational...might want to re-tell it....
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Post by speak on Oct 13, 2019 22:24:01 GMT -5
You have no worries about that do you, as you have stated you don't believe so how can it affect you? Personally I am not worried about it but I do worry about the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs. And to make it worse they are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time. This is not a healthy environment for children. The christian religion teaches that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know. Why would you worry about others if that's not going to happen?
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Post by snow on Oct 14, 2019 12:39:54 GMT -5
Sometimes it seems like religion is used to justify things that aren't moral. They don't want to give to the poor because 'the poor will always be with us' and 'did Jesus give to the poor', for example. It's also okay to tell everyone that isn't a Christian that they are going to hell because they are just doing God's work. It's also okay to say atheists are not worth anything because they don't believe in Gods. Some don't have compassion or love for everyone, just the ones that believe as they do. I know there are really good Christians out there, we see evidence of that on here. They are loving, compassionate and not just of those who believe as they do. That's what I used to think was what Christians did. What they were like. That they were like Jesus, turned the other cheek when it was hard to do so, and loved their enemies just as much as their friends. I was obviously naive. You are right and that is sad, Jesus never said don't give to the poor but encouraged them to do so. I don't believe it is right to tell anyone they aren't going to heaven, we are not to be judges. Jesus had compassion on many who were according to religious society not fit for the kingdom of God, but we see they were the ones He saved the thief on the cross for one, he could have been a murderer and Jesus would have still done the same thing. If we don't act with the same compassion and love as He did we won't be His. That's how I see it too speak. We have no idea what another's life is like or their circumstances. I found working in a halfway house that when you treated them with respect that they tended to live up to that level. They confided more often and it was very interesting to see how they viewed things. Many had viewpoints that you wouldn't expect because we label all those who commit crimes as immoral etc. It's just not true. We can't judge what we don't know and we never know what's in another's mind.
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Post by snow on Oct 14, 2019 12:45:57 GMT -5
Personally I am not worried about it but I do worry about the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs. And to make it worse they are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time. This is not a healthy environment for children. The christian religion teaches that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know. Why would you worry about others if that's not going to happen? Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263
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Post by speak on Oct 14, 2019 21:29:57 GMT -5
Why would you worry about others if that's not going to happen? Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 14, 2019 21:39:39 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. One should NEVER assume that life in one professing family is anything like life in another professing family, no matter how alike they appear to be.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 14, 2019 22:25:58 GMT -5
Personally I am not worried about it but I do worry about the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs. And to make it worse they are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time. This is not a healthy environment for children. The christian religion teaches that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know. you just chewed up the salvation story but good there rational...might want to re-tell it.... Just what part of the "salvation story" do you think was "chewed" up, Wally?
That "the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs." or they "are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time."
Or is it this; that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know.
Don't YOU believe any of those things, Wally?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 14, 2019 22:28:48 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 22:29:36 GMT -5
you just chewed up the salvation story but good there rational...might want to re-tell it.... Just what part of the "salvation story" do you think was "chewed" up, Wally?
That "the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs." or they "are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time."
Or is it this; that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know.
Don't YOU believe any of those things, Wally?
yes...but rational didn't mention any bit of the Love of God or the Love of Christ for us...etc...etc...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 14, 2019 23:38:11 GMT -5
Just what part of the "salvation story" do you think was "chewed" up, Wally?
That "the children being told that they may be relegated to eternal damnation unless they follow a set of beliefs." or they "are told the entity that is doing the judging is omnipresent and omniscient and is watching them all the time."
Or is it this; that we are all born evil. There is an all-powerful ever watching god who will punish us forever in hell -- but then he had his child tortured and killed to saved from that eternal torture. And humans can be saved if they are 'good'. And if they are not god will know.
Don't YOU believe any of those things, Wally?
yes...but rational didn't mention any bit of the Love of God or the Love of Christ for us...etc...etc... Ah, yes!
The CARROT!
The CARROT, God will love you!
But the STICK, - if you don't obey what the Lord God tells you to do you will feel the The STICK, and dwell in a lake fire forever.
Not much of choice is it?
Even if the Lord your God told you must kill every member of another tribe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 23:49:09 GMT -5
yes...but rational didn't mention any bit of the Love of God or the Love of Christ for us...etc...etc... Ah, yes!
The CARROT!
The CARROT, God will love you!
But the STICK, - if you don't obey what the Lord God tells you to do you will feel the The STICK, and dwell in a lake fire forever.
Not much of choice is it?
Even if the Lord your God told you must kill every member of another tribe.well you either tell the key component of the story or you keep quiet in my estimation....
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Post by speak on Oct 15, 2019 1:55:00 GMT -5
I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. One should NEVER assume that life in one professing family is anything like life in another professing family, no matter how alike they appear to be. Same goes for all families.
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Post by speak on Oct 15, 2019 1:55:57 GMT -5
I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess?I was told nothing but moved.
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Post by snow on Oct 15, 2019 13:44:23 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. Well I agree there are plenty of other things that are a problem for kids, besides what they did to those kids in Jesus Camp. But it's just one more thing that kids get taught that can be very traumatic. Why do we want to risk that. I got it drilled into my head over and over when I quit professing at 12. I was sure they were right and that wasn't a good place to be. We should not be risking kids mental health with such stories and condemnations. There is, like you state, enough other problems that we subject kids to out there. Never mind one that says you will be tortured forever if you don't believe in the right God. Did you watch Jesus Camp? Can you honestly say that it isn't a problem having kids that worked up about it?
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Post by rational on Oct 15, 2019 13:57:12 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. Then you just didn't work the belief through. Obey and follow god/jesus and all will be wonderful. Sin and you could be going to hell. Children are often very black/white in their understandings. "Jesus is always watching you." means just that to children. If you are 'bad' (not always well defined) there will be consequences. And then there is the often bloody display of a man on a cross. That is not really loving to children...
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 15, 2019 18:08:23 GMT -5
One should NEVER assume that life in one professing family is anything like life in another professing family, no matter how alike they appear to be. Same goes for all families. Isn't that what I meant?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 18:08:56 GMT -5
Oh, I think the description is accurate. But does the description fit? I don't know anymore. I used to think that it did. I have become more skeptical since being on here over the years. I think it definitely fits some, but not as many as I once thought I guess. Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves..."
Updated for today, "For when the non-Christians, which do not believe in the religious system of Christianity, do by nature the things which Christ lived and taught, these, though not going to a Christian church, are Christians unto themselves"
Did not Jesus say that there would be many people saved, yet surprised on the day of judgement, wondering when they ever did anything for and in the name of Jesus?
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Post by speak on Oct 15, 2019 20:01:24 GMT -5
Same goes for all families. Isn't that what I meant? No. I mean it for all human families
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 15, 2019 21:46:41 GMT -5
Well I can't answer for Rational, but for me I worry about the mental health of living individual, children, and how it will effect their lives. That is important to me because I believe they only have this one life to live and so I would hope it's not based on a belief that they could go to hell and that they were born sinners. I know there are different aspects to all this of course, some of them good. But I remember how afraid I was as a kid that if I didn't profess I was going to hell. So when I quit professing at 12 I was still convinced I was going to hell. That's not a good place for a kid to be. I cried when I watched the Jesus Camp. Watching very young children crying and asking Jesus to forgive them just tore me apart. vimeo.com/38531263I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. It came to me that it isn’t necessary to teach hellfire and damnation when preaching the gospel because it isn’t that kind of gospel! It is a gospel of love. It isn’t a gospel of permission but a gospel of forgiveness. I couldn’t help but sob because of the beauty of God’s love and grace and compassion for his adopted children by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I know some think Jesus’ Sacrifice is awful but it is a sacrifice of love. It wasn’t to be viewed as horrific but as love. Fact is John 3:16 says that God SO LOVED the world thAt he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. The reason it isn’t horrific is because Jesus is the first begotten of the eternal living! He doesn’t suffer any more whatever suffering might have been his. He’s in his kingdom he’s at the throne for ever and ever. All that is ours by and through him are gift after gift of eternal life in the future and strength and courage for this life and peace and joy knowing there is someone who loves us that much that they gave themselves so that we’d know life eternally!
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 15, 2019 22:54:09 GMT -5
Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess? I was told nothing but moved. Speak, How could you have been "told nothing?"
Didn't you hear something in either gospel meetings or convention?
How can anyone be "moved" to do anything without learning something as to why they were moved to do it?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 15, 2019 23:37:50 GMT -5
I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child. I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. It came to me that it isn’t necessary to teach hellfire and damnation when preaching the gospel because it isn’t that kind of gospel! It is a gospel of love. It isn’t a gospel of permission but a gospel of forgiveness. I couldn’t help but sob because of the beauty of God’s love and grace and compassion for his adopted children by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I know some think Jesus’ Sacrifice is awful but it is a sacrifice of love. It wasn’t to be viewed as horrific but as love. Fact is John 3:16 says that God SO LOVED the world thAt he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. The reason it isn’t horrific is because Jesus is the first begotten of the eternal living! He doesn’t suffer any more whatever suffering might have been his. He’s in his kingdom he’s at the throne for ever and ever. All that is ours by and through him are gift after gift of eternal life in the future and strength and courage for this life and peace and joy knowing there is someone who loves us that much that they gave themselves so that we’d know life eternally! That is all well & good, -because most of what Jesus advocated was love until the gospel comes to the place where it says that he would return and would divide people into sheep and goats and send the ones who were considered goats off to eternal damnation.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 15, 2019 23:48:31 GMT -5
I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. It came to me that it isn’t necessary to teach hellfire and damnation when preaching the gospel because it isn’t that kind of gospel! It is a gospel of love. It isn’t a gospel of permission but a gospel of forgiveness. I couldn’t help but sob because of the beauty of God’s love and grace and compassion for his adopted children by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I know some think Jesus’ Sacrifice is awful but it is a sacrifice of love. It wasn’t to be viewed as horrific but as love. Fact is John 3:16 says that God SO LOVED the world thAt he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. The reason it isn’t horrific is because Jesus is the first begotten of the eternal living! He doesn’t suffer any more whatever suffering might have been his. He’s in his kingdom he’s at the throne for ever and ever. All that is ours by and through him are gift after gift of eternal life in the future and strength and courage for this life and peace and joy knowing there is someone who loves us that much that they gave themselves so that we’d know life eternally! That is all well & good, -because most of what Jesus advocated was love until the gospel comes to the place where it says that he would return and would divide people into sheep and goats and send the ones who were considered goats off to eternal damnation.But that’s his business. It doesn’t pay to hit people over the head with it esp young children. If they want to know what happens if somebody’s bad then it’s time to tell them but not throw it at them in threatening words or use it to keep them obedient. It’s better to see a sermon then to hear it for any age. Yes, I know that the Bible says that but when people read that to take it in should be old enough by then to realize it’s like criminal behaviors carrying just repercussions.
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Post by speak on Oct 15, 2019 23:58:33 GMT -5
I was told nothing but moved. Speak, How could you have been "told nothing?"
Didn't you hear something in either gospel meetings or convention?
How can anyone be "moved" to do anything without learning something as to why they were moved to do it?
Go back and look at your question to me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 16, 2019 0:23:12 GMT -5
Speak, How could you have been "told nothing?"
Didn't you hear something in either gospel meetings or convention?
How can anyone be "moved" to do anything without learning something as to why they were moved to do it?
Go back and look at your question to me. Ok I have done so.Here is the conversation between us4 Oct 2019 at 22:28 dmmichgood said: 14 Oct 2019 at 21:29 speak said: I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child.Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess? I was told nothing but moved.
I don't understand by what you mean by saying you "was told nothing."
Maybe I am not making myself clear.
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Post by rational on Oct 16, 2019 0:29:46 GMT -5
I agree. I just read the first two chapters again in Ephesians. Of course, you are an adult. It is a gospel of love right up until it is a gospel of eternal damnation. Ever burning lakes of fire. He killed his son. You sugar coat it and present the killing of another human being as a loving concept. God killed his son. It has nothing to do with love except there would be fewer followers if it was told without the metaphors. A living human being was nailed to a cross and you say it was not horrific? The Romans did it because it was horrific. No one says "I love you with a crucifixion." One human does not have the right to "give" another human being as a sacrifice. Not only was there human sacrifice but the threat of missing out on heaven. More sugar coating. But the story is still not for children.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 16, 2019 1:17:21 GMT -5
That is all well & good, -because most of what Jesus advocated was love until the gospel comes to the place where it says that he would return and would divide people into sheep and goats and send the ones who were considered goats off to eternal damnation. But that’s his business. It doesn’t pay to hit people over the head with it esp young children. If they want to know what happens if somebody’s bad then it’s time to tell them but not throw it at them in threatening words or use it to keep them obedient. It’s better to see a sermon then to hear it for any age. Yes, I know that the Bible says that but when people read that to take it in should be old enough by then to realize it’s like criminal behaviors carrying just repercussions. NO it was not "his business!"
It is "our business" to not be scared that when we die we will go to an everlasting lake of fire just because we haven't believed in all the rules doled out by someone who may have existed or may not have existed -but even if he did exist was later made into a of a mythical character to control every aspect of our lives.
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Post by speak on Oct 16, 2019 3:22:20 GMT -5
Go back and look at your question to me. Ok I have done so.Here is the conversation between us4 Oct 2019 at 22:28 dmmichgood said: 14 Oct 2019 at 21:29 speak said: I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child.Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess? I was told nothing but moved.
I don't understand by what you mean by saying you "was told nothing."
Maybe I am not making myself clear.I was told nothing that made me decide to profess, I was moved to profess by Gods Holy Spirit.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 16, 2019 3:42:59 GMT -5
Ok I have done so.Here is the conversation between us4 Oct 2019 at 22:28 dmmichgood said: 14 Oct 2019 at 21:29 speak said: I think there is more harming children today. I never had the same problem as you and never heard any such thing preached as a child.Then, may I ask, Speak, -what were you told that made you decide to profess? I was told nothing but moved.
I don't understand by what you mean by saying you "was told nothing."
Maybe I am not making myself clear. I was told nothing that made me decide to profess, I was moved to profess by Gods Holy Spirit. So, are you saying that you WERE NOT reared in a 2x2 fellowship as so many of us were. Are you also saying that you never went to Sunday morning meetings, Wednesday evening bible studies, gospel meetings or conventions?
Then in what milieu were you raised? Were your parents NOT Christians?
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