nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 14:28:42 GMT -5
I don't believe I can rectify my sins on my own, I have never ever said that, you keep making things up about me. I need God to help me and I can only do it through Christ Jesus. I can't overcome without God, satan is too strong for me. The wages of sin is death, but that's not literal death, that's being dead to God. Sin separates us from God thus making us dead to him. If you are buried in a natural grave, can you see the light of the outside world and what's above? Can you see the life? No, because you are dead in a grave. And that's the same spiritually in God, if you are dead to God then you are separated by the lusts of the flesh and the pleasures of this life, and you can't see his light and you can't see his life, because you are dead to him and that is the death that sin brings, you're alive in this world alright, but dead to God. For everything literal there is a spiritual and Jesus uses many things that are natural to make parables which have deeper spiritual meanings. Paul did the same. And, you have got me all wrong again. And I do believe that Jesus was a sacrifice, but he was a living sacrifice, sacrificing his whole life to bare witness to the truth and bring us the true way to follow back to God. And if you want to judge me as being unsaved because I don't believe that Jesus had to be murdered to save us, then go ahead. But remember this, as you judge me, God judges you and you don't know my life!
No judgement intended, just clarifying what you believe. You believe that God condemns murder, but Jesus prayed, "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). So it was obviously God's will that Jesus be sacrificed. Why do you suppose that was?
Sin not atoned for does equate to a literal spiritual death, and that was the purpose of Jesus death, he came as an offering for the sins of the world, he was God's own divine sacrificial lamb for all who believe in him. That ended the old covenant and replaced animal sacrifice once and for all.
The difference is that you assign a spiritual meaning to everything, but his crucifixion had a definitive purpose and was a necessity for the salvation of every sinner. Assigning some abstract spiritual significance to what Jesus physically and literally endured in order to blot out our sins really cheapens all that he suffered for our sake's.
Sin does separate us from God, and that's what Jesus rectified, his sacrifice was not in vain. That's the gift and unmerited favor (grace) the Savior brought, and its our faith in his redemptive power that saves all repentant believers.
Amen! To that. Jesus died a literal death on Calvary’s Cross to SAVE us from the literal Second Death/Speration from God’s presence forever after the judgment day, which will take place for those whose names are NOT written in the book of life. READ Rev. Rev.20:11-15. Therefore, while Jesus was preaching the gospel, he tried to share with the world his literal death on Calvary’s Cross lesson through using a Testament event had taken in Numbers 21:18; John 3: 14-21 As the children of Israel looked up the bronze serpent/God’s judgment against those who complaints of His provision, they shall live after bitten by the poisonous snakes, which God sent to punish of their sins. For the Jews and Gentiles sinners to escapes the SECOND death, all they have to do is to look and believe Jesus died/death on the Calvary’s to REDEEM them of their sins against the Godhead. If they don’t believe in His life and death, they will DIE for their own sins because all of their good works are filthy rags before him. God the Father ONLY accept the Precious blood of atonement from the Son of God and Man Christ Jesus and no man on earth or any angel in heaven are good enough to redeem the mortal sinners. Read Acts 4:10-12. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 14:31:13 GMT -5
Maryh, we have discussed this subject John 6: 53-58 eating his flesh and drinking his blood to be SAVED! in the past it seems you still don’t fully understand the awesome and wonderful meaning of it completely. Jesus wasn’t talking literally eating his flesh and drinking his own blood; it was a symbolic of His New Testament Covenant with the Jews and Gentiles Passover in Luke 22 like He did with the children of Israel in Exodus chapter 12. A memorial service of how God has saved them from Pharaoh and now Christ has saved us from Satan’s bondage and the Second death. Christ’s Passover/eating the bread/his flesh or apply the New Testament teachings in our lives and drinking his blood/the wine forgiveness of our sins in Luke 22; 19 I Cor. 11: 23-26 Sunday morning worship the Godhead tradition was to be kept to the time of Jesus 2nd coming. John the apostle explain it’s very important to partake the emblems in parking and be staying in the fellowship without it there is no forgiveness of sins or receiving the cleansing the blood from Jesus. READ IJohn 1:1-7. and Hebrews 10:25 NOT to give up meeting of ourselves together, as some in the habit of doing, but exhort one another. In John 4 Jesus told the Samaritan woman the day is coming God will establish a NEW covenant for His people to come together to worship the Godhead in Spirit and in Truth that is Christ’s Passover in Luke 22; I Cor. 11:23-26 an everlasting covenant of memorial services on earth and throughout eternity. Do you Cooneyites partake the emblem or Christ’s Passover in your Sunday morning meeting? If you do you are worshipping the Godhead/Triune God= God the Father, partake the emblems of life and death on Calvary’s Cross his shed blood of forgiveness for our sins daily. And give thanks for the Holy Spirit teachings, guidance, and daily protection. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 8, 2024 14:37:56 GMT -5
Practically speaking, a doctrine of atonement ameliorates the conflict of interest that potentially arises in an individual's quest for salvation. Exercised and or appropriated responsibly, the doctrine of atonement neutralizes bias from the science of salvation. Blimey, I'm a simple woman. Can you simplify that for me please? Thank you. I don't know what he is smoking, but I think we all need to smoke the same stuff in order to interpret his word salad. |
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Post by fixit on Oct 8, 2024 15:20:20 GMT -5
Practically speaking, a doctrine of atonement ameliorates the conflict of interest that potentially arises in an individual's quest for salvation. Exercised and or appropriated responsibly, the doctrine of atonement neutralizes bias from the science of salvation. Lee, some of us genuinely want to understand what you're saying here. Could you flesh it out a bit please? Say it a different way, ideally using a few more sentences? What you wrote is like trying to decipher the 400 year old English of the King James Bible! |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 20:22:16 GMT -5
Can you elaborate by what you mean? Please, don’t take the Fifth, please. I didn't take the fifth. I simply said I didn't do what you said/thought I did. Period. There is nothing more to be elaborated on than the FACT that I NEVER EVER believed your foolishness about the godhead. I did perfectly well with the workers without ever hearing about the godhead or the trinity. I also mean that everyone I knew in the 2x2's in 50 years never once talked about the trinity. When I prayed, I begged Jesus name to get the father's favor. That wasn't stupid -- even Leo taught you that. If you tell me different -- I'd not believe you. Anything else you want to know to demonstrate what I meant. NO means NO -- and you can't prove me wrong. You do enough damage when you LIE about me -- if you want to tell the workers I believe in the trinity, go ahead. There's nothing more they can do to me any more.  |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 20:27:40 GMT -5
Better yet, why was he sent back to California? The most egotistical worker who ever walked. Bragged to me once about his skill in excommunicating people. Leo Stancliff spent many years labor in the Philippines islands! He was a tough missionary, he went to open churches, where there are no friends like Guam, Ponape, and Saipan. The friends from the Philippines came to Guam to have opened home for the workers in 1960s. Another worker name Harry H. and other workers came from the States to join him to labored those 3 islands. They established churches on those islands, he stayed in those islands for 20 years mainly on the island of Guam, where I met Leo and Larry in 1978. I left the island of Guam in 1980 and I offered the work to him. I came to live Seattle, Washington after that he came back to California staff. I met him a few times back in the States until the time of his death in 2000s. Do you know something about Leo the reason he was called back to the States that I don’t know about?Leo was well loved by many, especially the young people, he took us students at the college out to McDonald after the Bible studies on campus. He was always available to us if we need questions we don’t understand from the Bible or family issues. My brother and I saw the workers and their batch 5 times week. You can’t do that in the States! You are lucky if they come to stay in your home 2 times a in a year. He is very skillful in dealing with people, his methods might be different to certain people, but he is very approachable and want to help the lambs and sheep. I follow his caring, feeding the Lams and sheep when I was in the work even after I left the work. I don't need to know a reason. I wasn't given a reason. But you have an interesting twist -- "he was called back to the States." The rest of the story is "Who asked for him to be called back?" |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 20:40:36 GMT -5
I know too much about where you got your training. It only gets more screwy the more I hear. I wouldn't use Leo Stancliff for a recommendation, either. Why was Stancliffe sent overseas? I'm not sure which happened first -- he spoke some Tagalog so was sent there. Or he followed his idol and volunteered for an Asian assignment. I'm a very good friend with his close friend from childhood. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 20:45:02 GMT -5
Can you elaborate by what you mean? Please, don’t take the Fifth, please. I didn't take the fifth. I simply said I didn't do what you said/thought I did. Period. There is nothing more to be elaborated on than the FACT that I NEVER EVER believed your foolishness about the godhead. I did perfectly well with the workers without ever hearing about the godhead or the trinity. I also mean that everyone I knew in the 2x2's in 50 years never once talked about the trinity. When I prayed, I begged Jesus name to get the father's favor. That wasn't stupid -- even Leo taught you that. If you tell me different -- I'd not believe you. Anything else you want to know to demonstrate what I meant. NO means NO -- and you can't prove me wrong. You do enough damage when you LIE about me -- if you want to tell the workers I believe in the trinity, go ahead. There's nothing more they can do to me any more. Well, Eldon T. Howard M. Tharold S. Willis P. Clearance N. the overseers in the West coast and Lead you astray by teachings you Trinity is pagans and the devil’s doctrines. For over 50 years you prayed to the Godhead and didn’t know or understand it.🤭 Leo Stancliff and many of his senior ranking workers learned it from the early days workers had been teachings the Trinity; Jesus is God and He is part of the Godhead. We/2x2s are worshipping, teaching, believing, and preaching the Triune God when the workers baptizing new converts using Matthew 28:16-20 |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 20:49:05 GMT -5
I didn't take the fifth. I simply said I didn't do what you said/thought I did. Period. There is nothing more to be elaborated on than the FACT that I NEVER EVER believed your foolishness about the godhead. I did perfectly well with the workers without ever hearing about the godhead or the trinity. I also mean that everyone I knew in the 2x2's in 50 years never once talked about the trinity. When I prayed, I begged Jesus name to get the father's favor. That wasn't stupid -- even Leo taught you that. If you tell me different -- I'd not believe you. Anything else you want to know to demonstrate what I meant. NO means NO -- and you can't prove me wrong. You do enough damage when you LIE about me -- if you want to tell the workers I believe in the trinity, go ahead. There's nothing more they can do to me any more. Well, Eldon T. Howard M. Tharold S. Willis P. Clearance N. the overseers in the West coast and Lead you astray by teachings you Trinity is pagans and the devil’s doctrines. For over 50 years you prayed to the Godhead and didn’t know or understand it.🤭 Leo Stancliff and many of his senior ranking workers learned it from the early days workers had been teachings the Trinity; Jesus is God and He is part of the Godhead. We/2x2s are worshipping, teaching, believing, and preaching the Triune God when the workers baptizing new converts using Matthew 28:16-20 BS |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 20:49:59 GMT -5
I didn't take the fifth. I simply said I didn't do what you said/thought I did. Period. There is nothing more to be elaborated on than the FACT that I NEVER EVER believed your foolishness about the godhead. I did perfectly well with the workers without ever hearing about the godhead or the trinity. I also mean that everyone I knew in the 2x2's in 50 years never once talked about the trinity. When I prayed, I begged Jesus name to get the father's favor. That wasn't stupid -- even Leo taught you that. If you tell me different -- I'd not believe you. Anything else you want to know to demonstrate what I meant. NO means NO -- and you can't prove me wrong. You do enough damage when you LIE about me -- if you want to tell the workers I believe in the trinity, go ahead. There's nothing more they can do to me any more. Well, Eldon T. Howard M. Tharold S. Willis P. Clearance N. the overseers in the West coast and Lead you astray by teachings you Trinity is pagans and the devil’s doctrines. For over 50 years you prayed to the Godhead and didn’t know or understand it.🤭 Leo Stancliff and many of his senior ranking workers learned it from the early days workers had been teachings the Trinity; Jesus is God and He is part of the Godhead since 1898-1960s. We/2x2s are worshipping, teaching, believing, and preaching the Triune God when the workers baptizing new converts using Matthew 28:16-20. We baptizing you in the Name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If you had been worshipping Triune God every Sunday morning for 50 years for the last 50 years, then how can you believe the Trinity is the devils doctrine? |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 20:55:14 GMT -5
Well, Eldon T. Howard M. Tharold S. Willis P. Clearance N. the overseers in the West coast and Lead you astray by teachings you Trinity is pagans and the devil’s doctrines. For over 50 years you prayed to the Godhead and didn’t know or understand it.🤭 Leo Stancliff and many of his senior ranking workers learned it from the early days workers had been teachings the Trinity; Jesus is God and He is part of the Godhead. We/2x2s are worshipping, teaching, believing, and preaching the Triune God when the workers baptizing new converts using Matthew 28:16-20 BS No, BS! I have documents from the early days workers sermons to prove it, even Cherie TTT website has an article written how and when the Anti-Trinity doctrine; Jesus is NOT God brought in by these overseers I mentioned in my post. Dennis Jacobsen, Truitt Oyler testified and they were excommunicated in 1970 and 1990s. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 21:05:22 GMT -5
Leo Stancliff spent many years labor in the Philippines islands! He was a tough missionary, he went to open churches, where there are no friends like Guam, Ponape, and Saipan. The friends from the Philippines came to Guam to have opened home for the workers in 1960s. Another worker name Harry H. and other workers came from the States to join him to labored those 3 islands. They established churches on those islands, he stayed in those islands for 20 years mainly on the island of Guam, where I met Leo and Larry in 1978. I left the island of Guam in 1980 and I offered the work to him. I came to live Seattle, Washington after that he came back to California staff. I met him a few times back in the States until the time of his death in 2000s. Do you know something about Leo the reason he was called back to the States that I don’t know about?Leo was well loved by many, especially the young people, he took us students at the college out to McDonald after the Bible studies on campus. He was always available to us if we need questions we don’t understand from the Bible or family issues. My brother and I saw the workers and their batch 5 times week. You can’t do that in the States! You are lucky if they come to stay in your home 2 times a in a year. He is very skillful in dealing with people, his methods might be different to certain people, but he is very approachable and want to help the lambs and sheep. I follow his caring, feeding the Lams and sheep when I was in the work even after I left the work. I don't need to know a reason. I wasn't given a reason. But you have an interesting twist -- "he was called back to the States." The rest of the story is "Who asked for him to be called back?" Eldon T. was the overseer in Calf, now we know he is on CSA list, Willis Prop, Dan Hilton names these guy promoted the Anti-Trinity doctrines on the friends and workers on their staff. So, tell us what was the reason that you hear about Leo Stancliff was called back to the States? I heard he spent over 20 years on Guam and too many years in the Philippines, now is the times for him to come home to USA. He was a POW in the Philippines and his health wasn’t all that great on Guam. He did continue preaching as a senior worker with younger companions for the next 25 years on California staff to the time of his death in 2005. A few years ago, a senior sister, who labored on the islands told me they called Leo back to the states because Eldon T. wanted younger workers out there on the islands. I had heard from you on TMB you and your family had a fall out with Leo S. for many years. You two were at odds with each others with your family situation. You told us on TMB how you caused a big stirred with R. Mata CSA case, when they tried not to do much about it, he was sent to prison and died in there. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 8, 2024 21:45:24 GMT -5
I thought Dennis was let go because of his health issues (mainly caused by a broken back, suffered in Sweden).
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 23:44:24 GMT -5
I thought Dennis was let go because of his health issues (mainly caused by a broken back, suffered in Sweden). Yes, it was his health issue and for preaching the Trinity and Jesus is God. I have the article where he mentioned this to me, which I posted many times on here |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 23:48:22 GMT -5
No, BS! I have documents from the early days workers sermons to prove it, even Cherie TTT website has an article written how and when the Anti-Trinity doctrine; Jesus is NOT God brought in by these overseers I mentioned in my post. Dennis Jacobsen, Truitt Oyler testified and they were excommunicated in 1970 and 1990s. So what do you want to convince me of? |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 23:50:16 GMT -5
I don't need to know a reason. I wasn't given a reason. But you have an interesting twist -- "he was called back to the States." The rest of the story is "Who asked for him to be called back?" Eldon T. was the overseer in Calf, now we know he is on CSA list, Willis Prop, Dan Hilton names these guy promoted the Anti-Trinity doctrines on the friends and workers on their staff. So, tell us what was the reason that you hear about Leo Stancliff was called back to the States? I heard he spent over 20 years on Guam and too many years in the Philippines, now is the times for him to come home to USA. He was a POW in the Philippines and his health wasn’t all that great on Guam. He did continue preaching as a senior worker with younger companions for the next 25 years on California staff to the time of his death in 2005. I had heard from you on TMB you and your family had a fall out with Leo S. for many years. You two were at odds with each others with your family situation. You told us on TMB how you caused a big stirred with R. Mata CSA case, when they tried not to do much about it, he was sent to prison and died in there. So what? I heard all that before. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 8, 2024 23:56:13 GMT -5
No, BS! I have documents from the early days workers sermons to prove it, even Cherie TTT website has an article written how and when the Anti-Trinity doctrine; Jesus is NOT God brought in by these overseers I mentioned in my post. Dennis Jacobsen, Truitt Oyler testified and they were excommunicated in 1970 and 1990s. So what do you want to convince me of? You have been taught incorrectly by the workers in Calf. Staff for over 50 years, you believe the Trinity and Triune God is from the devils and it started by pagans religion and started by the RCC in the 3rd century which are false. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 9, 2024 0:01:29 GMT -5
Eldon T. was the overseer in Calf, now we know he is on CSA list, Willis Prop, Dan Hilton names these guy promoted the Anti-Trinity doctrines on the friends and workers on their staff. So, tell us what was the reason that you hear about Leo Stancliff was called back to the States? I heard he spent over 20 years on Guam and too many years in the Philippines, now is the times for him to come home to USA. He was a POW in the Philippines and his health wasn’t all that great on Guam. He did continue preaching as a senior worker with younger companions for the next 25 years on California staff to the time of his death in 2005. I had heard from you on TMB you and your family had a fall out with Leo S. for many years. You two were at odds with each others with your family situation. You told us on TMB how you caused a big stirred with R. Mata CSA case, when they tried not to do much about it, he was sent to prison and died in there. So what? I heard all that before. A few years ago, a senior sister who labored on Guam, Saipan told me the reason why, the called Leo Stancliff back to the states because Eldon T. wanted younger workers/New blood to labor out on those islands. I didn’t hear any negative or bad of him coming back to the states to labor in California staff from 1980-2005. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2024 0:01:46 GMT -5
So what do you want to convince me of? You have been taught incorrectly by the workers in Calf. Staff for over 50 years, you believe the Trinity and Triune God is from the devils and it started by pagans religion and started by the RCC in the 3rd century which are false. No, I don't believe that. Don't try to tell me what I believe. Don't you get the point that I have no inclination whatsoever to adopt any belief from you -- for obvious reasons. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2024 0:03:03 GMT -5
So what? I heard all that before. A few years ago, a senior sister who labored on Guam, Saipan told me the reason why, the called Leo Stancliff back to the states because they want younger workers/New blood to labor out on those islands. I didn’t hear any negative or bad of him coming back to the states to labor in California staff from 1980-2005. Of course you didn't hear anything bad about him. That wouldn't trust you with that information. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 9, 2024 0:05:37 GMT -5
You have been taught incorrectly by the workers in Calf. Staff for over 50 years, you believe the Trinity and Triune God is from the devils and it started by pagans religion and started by the RCC in the 3rd century which are false. No, I don't believe that. Don't try to tell me what I believe. I Don't you get the point that I have no inclination whatsoever to adopt any belief from you -- for obvious reasons. You mentioned what you believed on TMB for years what you think of the Trinity and is came from pagans religions and the RCC started this doctrine. |
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 9, 2024 0:07:37 GMT -5
A few years ago, a senior sister who labored on Guam, Saipan told me the reason why, the called Leo Stancliff back to the states because they want younger workers/New blood to labor out on those islands. I didn’t hear any negative or bad of him coming back to the states to labor in California staff from 1980-2005. Of course you didn't hear anything bad about him. That wouldn't trust you with that information. If you hear something bad about Leo Stancliff let me and those on TMB KNOW about it with proof, OK. Nobody wants to hear gossips, rumors or innuendoes and so on to tarnish someone’s character and testimony. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2024 0:19:57 GMT -5
No, I don't believe that. Don't try to tell me what I believe. I Don't you get the point that I have no inclination whatsoever to adopt any belief from you -- for obvious reasons. You mentioned what you believed on TMB for years what you think of the Trinity and is came from pagans religions and the RCC started this doctrine. Of course. But now I'm talking about who introduced it to Christianity. No wonder you think I'm slippery - you don't read well. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2024 0:23:44 GMT -5
Of course you didn't hear anything bad about him. That wouldn't trust you with that information. If you hear something bad about Leo Stancliff let me and those on TMB KNOW about it with proof, OK. Nobody wants to hear gossips, rumors or innuendoes and so on to tarnish someone’s character and testimony. I already told you something bad about Leo Stancliff and you haven't stopped begging for more. I don't like having conversations with you. |
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 9, 2024 0:32:45 GMT -5
If you hear something bad about Leo Stancliff let me and those on TMB KNOW about it with proof, OK. Nobody wants to hear gossips, rumors or innuendoes and so on to tarnish someone’s character and testimony. I already told you something bad about Leo Stancliff and you haven't stopped begging for more. I don't like having conversations with you. There are 3 sides to every story, your side, Leo’s side and God’s side. I only hear your side of the story so, I hesitate to draw my own conclusion, what really taken place between him and you back in those days. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 9, 2024 1:40:16 GMT -5
I already told you something bad about Leo Stancliff and you haven't stopped begging for more. I don't like having conversations with you. There are 3 sides to every story, your side, Leo’s side and God’s side. I only hear your side of the story so, I hesitate to draw my own conclusion, what really taken place between him and you back in those days. I have to live with my own side of the story -- the other sides are what other people want to believe. If you don't believe my side of the story, don't ask me to give you another side - - I'm not going to lie about myself. BS. If you hesitate to draw conclusions, why do you blast away so much at people on here. |
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Post by maryhig on Oct 9, 2024 2:25:48 GMT -5
I don't believe I can rectify my sins on my own, I have never ever said that, you keep making things up about me. I need God to help me and I can only do it through Christ Jesus. I can't overcome without God, satan is too strong for me. The wages of sin is death, but that's not literal death, that's being dead to God. Sin separates us from God thus making us dead to him. If you are buried in a natural grave, can you see the light of the outside world and what's above? Can you see the life? No, because you are dead in a grave. And that's the same spiritually in God, if you are dead to God then you are separated by the lusts of the flesh and the pleasures of this life, and you can't see his light and you can't see his life, because you are dead to him and that is the death that sin brings, you're alive in this world alright, but dead to God. For everything literal there is a spiritual and Jesus uses many things that are natural to make parables which have deeper spiritual meanings. Paul did the same. And, you have got me all wrong again. And I do believe that Jesus was a sacrifice, but he was a living sacrifice, sacrificing his whole life to bare witness to the truth and bring us the true way to follow back to God. And if you want to judge me as being unsaved because I don't believe that Jesus had to be murdered to save us, then go ahead. But remember this, as you judge me, God judges you and you don't know my life!
No judgement intended, just clarifying what you believe. You believe that God condemns murder, but Jesus prayed, "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). So it was obviously God's will that Jesus be sacrificed. Why do you suppose that was?
Sin not atoned for does equate to a literal spiritual death, and that was the purpose of Jesus death, he came as an offering for the sins of the world, he was God's own divine sacrificial lamb for all who believe in him. That ended the old covenant and replaced animal sacrifice once and for all.
The difference is that you assign a spiritual meaning to everything, but his crucifixion had a definitive purpose and was a necessity for the salvation of every sinner. Assigning some abstract spiritual significance to what Jesus physically and literally endured in order to blot out our sins really cheapens all that he suffered for our sake's.
Sin does separate us from God, and that's what Jesus rectified, his sacrifice was not in vain. That's the gift and unmerited favor (grace) the Savior brought, and its our faith in his redemptive power that saves all repentant believers.
You are kidding me, so Jesus dying on the cross covers all your sins? I don't think so! Do you believe like the mainstream Christians do, that they can do as they please and they are still saved regardless because Jesus died for them? Your sin separates you from God full stop, Paul was preaching this after the death of Jesus. Carry on wilfully sinning and we separate ourselves from God, we must truly repent and turn from that sin, Jesus didn't say your sins are forgiven, carry on, he said your sins are forgiven go sin by more. Repent is the key word, we don't carry on wilfully sinning once we truly repent. And once we truly repent we don't need death to save us, because the life of Christ has saved those who truly repent and follow him. Jesus didn't preach "repent, believe in me dying on the cross and you will be saved" did he? No he just preached "repent, the kingdom of God is at hand" no death needed. And you did judge me, you said you doubt that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus dying on the cross can be saved. I don't judge anyone like that, and I don't see salvation in this lifetime the way you do. I can't believe that people judge others' eternal salvation on their own beliefs. I just speak the truth and leave judgement and who receives eternal salvation to God, as many could have a better heart than me. I want you all with me IF I get there, but again I leave that in God's hands. Death death death, cross cross cross is all I hear from you people.... How about life life life, Jesus is the life, why do you only speak about his death, teach his life and love. Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, bless those that curse you and pray for those that despitefully use you. Love is the key to salvation, and Jesus showed us the way. The gospel is what Jesus peached, and he didn't preach that we have to believe in his death to be saved. He taught us to repent, turn from sin and live by the will of God. And I follow him. |
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 5,258
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Post by nathan2 on Oct 9, 2024 4:27:47 GMT -5
There are 3 sides to every story, your side, Leo’s side and God’s side. I only hear your side of the story so, I hesitate to draw my own conclusion, what really taken place between him and you back in those days. I have to live with my own side of the story -- the other sides are what other people want to believe. If you don't believe my side of the story, don't ask me to give you another side - - I'm not going to lie about myself, BS. If you hesitate to draw conclusions, why do you blast away so much at people on here. I am NOT a blasting on anyone, just sharing Jesus Christ New Testament teachings, doing what He has asked us to do in Matthew 28: 16-20, the Great commission, that is all. You tell present your side of the scriptures understanding or stories and I present mine side, and let the readers make up their own minds, who they want to believe in telling the truth. Just like in the days of Jesus, he preached the Truth of God, but the Pharisees kept on imposing him every direction but he told them you are NOT MY sheep because MY sheep hear my voice and accept me and follow me. Hey, it’s your choice if you don’t believe what I am doing is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ and true apostles teachings just skip my posts or rebuttal it in a mature manners. |
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