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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 8:33:44 GMT -5
Fanning those flames of torment! š Keeping the heat away from paradise. The heat, regrets, suffering came from the conscious of the mind. The rich man remember things of the past when he was living on the earth.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 8:35:41 GMT -5
The writers of the bible had quite an imagination. They didnāt have libraries and the internet! š Luke chapter 16 were the words and teachings of Jesus/God NOT from the writers, who had no experience of Life after death.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 8:47:31 GMT -5
They didnāt have libraries and the internet! š Luke chapter 16 were the words and teachings of Jesus/God NOT from the writers, who had no experience of Life after death.Considering that the parable was written a few years after Jesus had ascended, the parable likely is missing somethingās and added other things. Thatās just the way of humans and their memories and retelling.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 8:54:12 GMT -5
Luke chapter 16 were the words and teachings of Jesus/God NOT from the writers, who had no experience of Life after death. Considering that the parable was written a few years after Jesus had ascended, the parable likely is missing somethingās and added other things. Thatās just the way of humans and their memories and retelling. Jesus foretold the apostles and his disciples that the Holy Spirit will bring to your rememberance of His teachings. They came together and shared what they had remembered from Jesus teachings and they wrote the 4 gospels as best as they could.
Jesus said in John 14:26 "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 8:56:18 GMT -5
Yes, I do..... Jesus was given the Jews and believers in His days an understanding of Hades and Paradise where Abraham and believers souls go AFTER death before he paid the ransom price on Calvary's. If that parable has anything to do with sinners and saints, it has to do with a saint having gone STRAIGHT to heaven as post-Christ saints do. And the sinner is in the fiery pit of Judgment which is after .Judgement . The sinners in the fiery pit after Judgment Day are not going to know if their relatives are still alive or not, but theyāll worry about them as they last saw them. This is part of the eternal reward for sinners. Not knowing where your loved ones are. For a certainty, there IS a fixed gulf between heaven and the fiery pit and second death. The parable does not fit the graves of deathās prison.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 8:59:19 GMT -5
Considering that the parable was written a few years after Jesus had ascended, the parable likely is missing somethingās and added other things. Thatās just the way of humans and their memories and retelling. Jesus foretold the apostles and his disciples that the Holy Spirit will bring to your rememberance of His teachings. They came together and shared what they had remembered from Jesus teachings and they wrote the 4 gospels as best as they could.
Jesus said in John 14:26 "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."John is the only one known to have written his own gospel. The others were written by someone whoād heard the Apostles or heard from someone whoād heard the Apostles. Iām not saying thete isnāt truth in the Bible but we need to be more careful to avow something thatās fact thatās not spoken in the Bible. I have to watch myself all the time. Still err.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 9:01:44 GMT -5
So the rich man was a friend of Abraham? I didn't get that historical perspective from the text. The rich man was a Jew/unbeliever, he had read about Abraham from the scriptures when he was alive but had NEVER met him until in Hades.Lazarus the beggar was a Gentile, the rich Jews thought such beneath their notice.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 9:04:03 GMT -5
The rich man was a Jew/unbeliever, he had read about Abraham from the scriptures when he was alive but had NEVER met him until in Hades. Lazarus the beggar was a Gentile, the rich Jews thought such beneath their notice. Where in the world do you get that Lazarus was a Gentile in the story of Jesus. Is this your own opinion?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 10:40:14 GMT -5
Lazarus the beggar was a Gentile, the rich Jews thought such beneath their notice. Where in the world do you get that Lazarus was a Gentile in the story of Jesus. Is this your own opinion?No itās not my opinion! I sent two links earlier on the subject that explained what the parable was about. You didnāt bother to read them! The Rich man represents the Jews who thought as Godās chosen people that they were ārichā and above the notice of the strangers, the Gentiles. They would have nothing to do even with their own breed publicans and sinners. In this parable and the four before it, they all follow the Pharisees making a lot of to do about Jesus sitting and dining with the publicans and sinners. Jesus used these parables to show the Pharisees how they were going to lose out because of their self-righteousness and covetousness. The beggar represents the Gentiles who are āpoor in spirit ā and beneath the ānoticeā of the Jews. In Malachi, God said he was going to give salvation to the Gentiles to make them jealous. This parable was spoken by Jesus to do just that. To remind these rich Pharuses what God had already said!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 10:42:46 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 10:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2019 12:59:52 GMT -5
Would you be comfortable sitting in heaven viewing those who are in obvious pain and torment? no one goes to hell by accident, they made their choice....my grandpa had an NDE and said he saw the chasm and so many people on the wrong side but there was nothing he/they could do about it...in the new heaven and earth to come i doubt we will be seeing them although they might be able to see us.... I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe?
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -5
bible doesn't say if there is a wind or not.... The Bible does leave more to the imagination than anything else. And boy do they use it!! Imagination imagined to be divine revelation....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 13:27:58 GMT -5
The rich man was a Jew/unbeliever, he had read about Abraham from the scriptures when he was alive but had NEVER met him until in Hades. Lazarus the beggar was a Gentile malarky the bible doesn't say that.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 13:30:55 GMT -5
no one goes to hell by accident, they made their choice....my grandpa had an NDE and said he saw the chasm and so many people on the wrong side but there was nothing he/they could do about it...in the new heaven and earth to come i doubt we will be seeing them although they might be able to see us.... I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe? its not just 2x2's that believe that....i believe(no proof) that those kinds will be taken care of during the 1000 year reign
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 13:35:06 GMT -5
Lazarus the beggar was a Gentile malarky the bible doesn't say that..... It doesnāt say he was a saved Jew either. It doesnāt say whether it occurred before Jesusā death and resurrection or after to where the saved go immediately to Paradise on death if body. Jesus was making a parable about the reason that salvation had been taken from the self-righteous Jews and given to the Gentiles and to make the Jews jealous. It hadnāt worked yet . But that was the whole thing that God planned as far as the children of Israel are concerned. They were so self-righteous in their own eyes and so covetous of place and Gouda, they had no dealings with even their poor, the publicans and sinners.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 13:39:19 GMT -5
malarky the bible doesn't say that..... It doesnāt say he was a saved Jew either. It doesnāt say whether it occurred before Jesusā death and resurrection or after to where the saved go immediately to Paradise on death if body. Jesus was making a parable about the reason that salvation had been taken from the self-righteous Jews and given to the Gentiles and to make the Jews jealous. It hadnāt worked yet . But that was the whole thing that God planned as far as the children of Israel are concerned. They were so self-righteous in their own eyes and so covetous of place and Gouda, they had no dealings with even their poor, the publicans and sinners. since Jesus told it before his death/resurrection its likely that it happened before that, since lazarus went to abrahams bosom/paradise instead of heaven its likely it happened before Jesus death/resurrection...it wasn't a parable
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 13:43:30 GMT -5
I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe? its not just 2x2's that believe that....i believe(no proof) that those kinds will be taken care of during the 1000 year reign No Wally, once dead thatās it! The workers are not salvation or the only true ministry. God has the power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding; to use or raise of gospel repeaters wherever his elect may be. He doesnāt wait around til the workers decide they can do a bit of gospel worker in between conventions and soecial meetings! The prophets, Apostles, pastors, teachers, preachers, evangelists or laity that repeat the gospel story will be used by God so that his elect will hear the gospel message. I donāt see how you think workers are adequate gospel preachers if they canāt tell the Truth about Jesus being God! They may tell some of the truth but most of it is about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Two by twos have made their religion about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Sometimes speaking about thatās how Jesus did it. They miss out on teaching who really is our Saviour and the why his redemption price is enough since the Psalmist has said āno man can redeem his brother.ā The knowledge and understanding about who Jesus is is the primary part of the gospel story, in fact it IS THE gospel story!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 13:47:04 GMT -5
It doesnāt say he was a saved Jew either. It doesnāt say whether it occurred before Jesusā death and resurrection or after to where the saved go immediately to Paradise on death if body. Jesus was making a parable about the reason that salvation had been taken from the self-righteous Jews and given to the Gentiles and to make the Jews jealous. It hadnāt worked yet . But that was the whole thing that God planned as far as the children of Israel are concerned. They were so self-righteous in their own eyes and so covetous of place and Gouda, they had no dealings with even their poor, the publicans and sinners. since Jesus told it before his death/resurrection its likely that it happened before that, since lazarus went to abrahams bosom/paradise instead of heaven its likely it happened before Jesus death/resurrection...it wasn't a parable Abraham was saved by faith. It is him who God gave the promise of the Messiah to. It is Abrahamās bosom all go to in heaven on death of their physical bodies, because they also are saved through faith. Faith was what was counted to Abraham for righteousness. Thatās what saved him. Thatās what saved us. Not all Israel are of Godās Israel but all of those of God are of Israel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 13:49:29 GMT -5
its not just 2x2's that believe that....i believe(no proof) that those kinds will be taken care of during the 1000 year reign No Wally, once dead thatās it! The workers are not salvation or the only true ministry. God has the power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding; to use or raise of gospel repeaters wherever his elect may be. He doesnāt wait around til the workers decide they can do a bit of gospel worker in between conventions and soecial meetings! The prophets, Apostles, pastors, teachers, preachers, evangelists or laity that repeat the gospel story will be used by God so that his elect will hear the gospel message. I donāt see how you think workers are adequate gospel preachers if they canāt tell the Truth about Jesus being God! They may tell some of the truth but most of it is about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Two by twos have made their religion about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Sometimes speaking about thatās how Jesus did it. They miss out on teaching who really is our Saviour and the why his redemption price is enough since the Psalmist has said āno man can redeem his brother.ā The knowledge and understanding about who Jesus is is the primary part of the gospel story, in fact it IS THE gospel story! the only requirement i see is to believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and savior and obey God there is no where in the bible that says you must understand the trinity to be saved(i am a trinity believer) and i have no idea where you go t it from my post that i said the workers are salvation or the only true ministry....
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 31, 2019 14:03:54 GMT -5
So why did you like the request for their new denomination? Stop the condemning suggestions if you really want to know their answer. Help them to understand that they believe they have been set FREE from the 2x2s, which they believe is a Cult but have jumped into the BIGGER fire/cults and don't KNOW it.
They believe they were deliver from the 2x2 started by man William Irvine but what they don't get it that they gotten/tangled in a BIGGER MAZE of Satan's false spider webs of false religions, or the 40,000 plus forms denominations of Christianity.
Satan's web of deceit like a CRAZY MAZE there is ONLY one way out of it, there are so MANY ways which lead to a DEAD END roads. People just go round and round the merry go round. It takes the Holy Spirit to get people out of Satan's religious Maze.
It is difficult to believe that anyone has "jumped" into any possible "BIGGER fire/cult" than the science fiction theme you put forth, Nathan!
The idea of a "hollow earth" and "Jesus residing in Venus" is one of very CRAZY MAZES that I have ever seen!
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2019 14:15:13 GMT -5
I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe? its not just 2x2's that believe that....i believe(no proof) that those kinds will be taken care of during the 1000 year reign No they aren't. Very true. However, it's a 2x2 board so I didn't mention that Islam and those who believe in the trinity also sometimes think anyone who doesn't believe as they do are going to hell. That's been evident on here when ex 2x2's say that 2x2's aren't saved.
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2019 14:21:39 GMT -5
Help them to understand that they believe they have been set FREE from the 2x2s, which they believe is a Cult but have jumped into the BIGGER fire/cults and don't KNOW it.
They believe they were deliver from the 2x2 started by man William Irvine but what they don't get it that they gotten/tangled in a BIGGER MAZE of Satan's false spider webs of false religions, or the 40,000 plus forms denominations of Christianity.
Satan's web of deceit like a CRAZY MAZE there is ONLY one way out of it, there are so MANY ways which lead to a DEAD END roads. People just go round and round the merry go round. It takes the Holy Spirit to get people out of Satan's religious Maze.
It is difficult to believe that anyone has "jumped" into any possible "BIGGER fire/cult" than the science fiction theme you put forth, Nathan!
The idea of a "hollow earth" and "Jesus residing in Venus" is one of very CRAZY MAZES that I have ever seen!What I find interesting is that Nathan believes the hollow earth was the Garden of Eden, but in the next sentence he says it's where hell is. If it's the Garden of Eden, then how could anyone have visited the hollow earth? It's guarded according to Genesis so that no one can enter. Something very contradictory about the whole thing.... beyond the fact that the earth isn't hollow in the first place, I mean
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 31, 2019 14:29:30 GMT -5
no one goes to hell by accident, they made their choice....my grandpa had an NDE and said he saw the chasm and so many people on the wrong side but there was nothing he/they could do about it...in the new heaven and earth to come i doubt we will be seeing them although they might be able to see us.... I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe? The point you raise is why I am now an atheist. I asked several different workers how a good person such as a Native American, or Samoan or Maori or Aborigene would be treated upon death just because they were not in the right geographic area or born much too soon to hear the gospel. The silly answer was always the same. God knows his own and the spirit will lead people to gods servants. That started me thinking and asking more questions, initially about the Truth and whether I was worshipping in the right place but then it became questions about what I was worshipping. The god myth soon unravels with some honest searching.
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2019 14:55:28 GMT -5
I am sure there are many people that have died that were not professing or baptized in the church because they never knew it even existed. How is it their fault that they went to hell as some 2x2 believe? The point you raise is why I am now an atheist. I asked several different workers how a good person such as a Native American, or Samoan or Maori or Aborigene would be treated upon death just because they were not in the right geographic area or born much too soon to hear the gospel. The silly answer was always the same. God knows his own and the spirit will lead people to gods servants. That started me thinking and asking more questions, initially about the Truth and whether I was worshipping in the right place but then it became questions about what I was worshipping. The god myth soon unravels with some honest searching. Yes, one thing I hated and was distressed about before I quit professing was that many of my relatives weren't professing and therefore doomed to hell. They knew the 'Truth' as their mother and sister professed (my grandmother and mother), but the rest of the family including my grandfather never professed. I loved my aunts and my grandfather and all my cousins and I really wanted them to be in heaven with me. They were good people and I couldn't understand how they would be doomed to hell just because they weren't part of my parents religion. It seemed so wrong. Then I read the OT and God's commanding of the killing of a whole tribe except for the female virgins. I started to ask the workers questions and I got the same answer you did about my relatives. I didn't get much of an answer about the Amelekites and when I kept trying for answers so I could understand I definitely made some of the workers mad and I was told I had weak faith and I shouldn't question God's actions. This led to my quitting professing and eventually realizing that all religions and Gods were just mankind's hope for an afterlife.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 15:15:11 GMT -5
Where in the world do you get that Lazarus was a Gentile in the story of Jesus. Is this your own opinion? No itās not my opinion! I sent two links earlier on the subject that explained what the parable was about. You didnāt bother to read them! The Rich man represents the Jews who thought as Godās chosen people that they were ārichā and above the notice of the strangers, the Gentiles. They would have nothing to do even with their own breed publicans and sinners. In this parable and the four before it, they all follow the Pharisees making a lot of to do about Jesus sitting and dining with the publicans and sinners. Jesus used these parables to show the Pharisees how they were going to lose out because of their self-righteousness and covetousness. The beggar represents the Gentiles who are āpoor in spirit ā and beneath the ānoticeā of the Jews. In Malachi, God said he was going to give salvation to the Gentiles to make them jealous. This parable was spoken by Jesus to do just that. To remind these rich Pharuses what God had already said! ** That is someone interpretations of Luke 16. Jesus told the 12, 70 NOT to go to the Gentiles in Matt 10 and Luke 10. Jesus main mission was to save the Jews and to give them the first opportunity to hear the gospel.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2019 15:28:35 GMT -5
It is difficult to believe that anyone has "jumped" into any possibleĀ "BIGGER fire/cult" Ā than the science fiction theme you put forth,Ā Nathan!Ā
The idea of a "hollow earth" and "Jesus residing in Venus"Ā is one of very Ā CRAZY MAZES that I have ever seen! What I find interesting is that Nathan believes the hollow earth was the Garden of Eden, but in the next sentence he says it's where hell is. If it's the Garden of Eden, then how could anyone have visited the hollow earth? It's guarded according to Genesis so that no one can enter. Something very contradictory about the whole thing.... beyond the fact that the earth isn't hollow in the first place, I mean ** I posted the link from the ancient writing Zohar where they teach that the Garden of Eden is inside the hollow/inner earth. Satan and the fallen angels, the Nephilim, all sort of animals and beings live there. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the ground from the inner earth and after they had sinned against God, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden, to the surface of the earth. God sent an angel to guard certain spot where the Tree of life was planted so Adam and Eve could NOT eat the fruit from the tree of life and live in the SINFUL state FOREVER. Therefore, God cast them up the the surface, to wait for Christ to come down from heaven to Redeem them of their sins and their fallen human children sins.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 31, 2019 15:35:38 GMT -5
No Wally, once dead thatās it! The workers are not salvation or the only true ministry. God has the power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding; to use or raise of gospel repeaters wherever his elect may be. He doesnāt wait around til the workers decide they can do a bit of gospel worker in between conventions and soecial meetings! The prophets, Apostles, pastors, teachers, preachers, evangelists or laity that repeat the gospel story will be used by God so that his elect will hear the gospel message. I donāt see how you think workers are adequate gospel preachers if they canāt tell the Truth about Jesus being God! They may tell some of the truth but most of it is about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Two by twos have made their religion about the two by two itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. Sometimes speaking about thatās how Jesus did it. They miss out on teaching who really is our Saviour and the why his redemption price is enough since the Psalmist has said āno man can redeem his brother.ā The knowledge and understanding about who Jesus is is the primary part of the gospel story, in fact it IS THE gospel story! the only requirement i see is to believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and savior and obey God there is no where in the bible that says you must understand the trinity to be saved(i am a trinity believer) and i have no idea where you go t it from my post that i said the workers are salvation or the only true ministry.... You said that āthoseā kind would be taken care of during the thousand year reign. The conversation was about those who perished and no two by twos were known by them, and how fair was that they perished. I still say, that once dead, thatās it because since Jesus came crucified and resurrected, gospel has been preached to many but few are chosen. God will make sure his elect hears the gospel in their lifetime because their judgment will be in what theyāve done according to what they knew. I.e. the Bible says those who knew but didnāt do would suffer many stripes but those who didnāt know would suffer fewer stripes. Luke 12:47-48
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