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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:38:20 GMT -5
benar . Yes, i have not read any of the books about the 2x2's as the aim of most of these books ( i understand there are exceptions) seems to fall strategically short of what should be a broader & objective analysis, so the writers can protect their own version of christianity. If only the individuals who have written negatively about the 2x2 grp would have an epiphany and realise the criteria they are using to discredit the 2x2's can be applied to all faiths. You would enjoy Bob's latest book then. "I Will Disentangle Myself". Well written but not advocating for another church instead. |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:45:09 GMT -5
I thought the only ones theists really really hate are atheists. Interesting point. There aren't any atheist written books or websites specifically focused on 2x2s, in part, because there don't need to be. Maybe the top names should be Darwin, Galileo, and Copernicus. I heard so much mocking of science and reason while growing up. Well one reason why there are no books written by atheists about the 2x2's is because we realize they are just one small group in a very large group that are, imo, deceiving. |
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muse2
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Post by muse2 on Apr 29, 2019 14:00:58 GMT -5
The subject of enemies and hatred is a deep and dark subject. Why not think on better things. Here is a song I wrote for that very purpose. Interestingly enough while I know some workers and friends consider me their enemy and one even condemned me to hell, I don't feel that way at all. I feel more pity than anger and I am certainly not their enemy. If one was in trouble I would help them, not because I count them as an enemy and Jesus commanded us to be good to our enemies, but because I understand them and can still find love for them within me. I hope someone will enjoy this song.
Our Father's Throne
Think on our Father's throne.
And through our faith we see
Our Father strong and round him throng
His creatures in harmony.
Think on our Father's throne.
Seven lamps before him shine
His perfect spirit burns with life
Guiding to truth divine.
Think on our Father's throne.
The morning star did strive.
His thoughts are pure, his faith was tried
Untouched by death he's alive.
Think on our Father's throne.
His flaming eyes so keen.
We see him pass with feet of brass
His robe forever clean.
Think on our Father's throne.
Four seraphim do cry
With crowns in hand the elders fall
All honor is thine they reply.
Think on our Father's throne.
Repentant souls made true.
On a chrystal sea upright they stand
His people transformed anew.
Recommended melody (This is Our Father's World)
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 14:11:39 GMT -5
In the book I wrote I specifically stated that I would never tell anyone to leave the 2x2's. Does that help? If your goal is a low ranking on the enemies list, yes it helps. I want to be FIRST and SOMETHING. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 14:13:50 GMT -5
Forget. Where did you get the notion that I would have to forget anything? I've forgiven everyone. But I'm not forgetting . . . I thought forgiving was more virtuous than being forgetful. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 14:15:40 GMT -5
In the book I wrote I specifically stated that I would never tell anyone to leave the 2x2's. Does that help?
I don't need the threat of God's disapproval to tell the truth, you realize. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 14:25:49 GMT -5
Wow, Cherie at #1!!! I guess there is some debate after all. I see the point that Telling The Truth has reached the most people. But here's my argument: Without either Parker or Trimble, the workers probably could have gotten away with the lies about the history, and could have covered William Irvine up for decades or maybe even a century more if not indefinitely. Without the Impartial Reporter, Parker probably would have still found and interviewed witnesses to the early days of 2x2ism. Without Parker, Cherie or others probably still would have found the Impartial Reporter articles. But without newspaper articles and too late for primary source witnesses, we still might be waiting for the first clues to emerge! One of the workers (maybe George Walker?) once said something to the effect of "we almost got away with it undiscovered". Trimble and Parker also get extra credit for their more inflamatory writings, whereas Cherie has been less sensational, even turning down ownership of VOT There are always those who try to deceive and those who uncover the deceit. There are always going to be those who don't believe those who uncover the truth about what those who are trying to deceive really think. I remember one pope telling it like it is. Pope Leo X said: "What profit hath not that fable of Christ brought us". When he became pope on March 9, 1513 Leo X rejoiced. He is reported to have said to his brother Giuliano "Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it". Hear is another quote from Synesius, Bishop of Alexandria in the 4th Century "In my capacity as bishop of the church I shall continue to disseminate the fables of our religion: but in my private capacity I shall remain a philosopher to the end".And Augustine: "There are many things that are true which it is not useful for the vulgar crowd to know; and certain things which although they are false it is expedient for the people to believe otherwise". (Civ. Dei, Lib. IV Cap. XXXI)So it wasn't just the First workers that sought to deceive the 'masses' with their fables, the RCC earliest church fathers did also. Makes you wonder what the real truth about the Christian 'Christos' really is doesn't it. You're right on the mark. Augustine made no apology for using Pagan theology to attract Pagans into the church. He also acknowledged that he could not justify the concept of "christ" with Jewish tradition or theology. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 14:36:52 GMT -5
Despite Nathan's huffing and puffing about Cherie, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find anything she has ever said publicly about the group that is negative. Her website is extremely neutral; the documents and letters speak for themselves. Funny how the truth hurts (I think more than a double entendre there). one only has to read this page to see that it's not "extremely neutral" www.tellingthetruth.info/history_articles/hearfrom.phpTruthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 15:09:07 GMT -5
Truthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. you didn't read the page did you. i wasn't commenting on the quotes other people said i was commenting on cheries questions, comments and critics that are throughout the articles on that page that are anything but neutral... |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 17:50:33 GMT -5
Truthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. you didn't read the page did you. i wasn't commenting on the quotes other people said i was commenting on cheries questions, comments and critics that are throughout the articles on that page that are anything but neutral... I was commenting on the same things you were commenting on. Astute literacy, man! |
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 29, 2019 17:53:19 GMT -5
Most disliked workers on TMB:
G. Walker
E.Tenniswood
W. Propp
J Frandle
J Knipe
I Hobbs
L White
A. Kitto
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 19:03:13 GMT -5
What is this thread hoping to achieve? I think we have established folk don’t use the word hate for a start.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 29, 2019 19:13:19 GMT -5
Truthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. I hope you do not expect Nathan, Wally and co to understand that concept. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 19:20:25 GMT -5
I am with you on that Olea, hate is a terrible thing, it can lead to tragic consequences. People with hatred toward others only destroy themselves, nobody else. And I know that the people on that list do not show hatred toward anybody, they just want to share their story with others, and that may help them in their life. No harm in that, and I know that sensible "Truth" church members are not phased by it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 19:23:58 GMT -5
Helps me often
“To thyself be true ...then thou canst fool no man ( or woman)’. Must get off here & get going on my 3 hr trip
Cheers
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Post by joanna on Apr 29, 2019 19:55:35 GMT -5
elizabethcoleman To remain neutral about a subject means you do not have opinions either for or against it. To be neutral is to be impartial; unbiased; non-partisan. These definitions need to be included as it appears you do not understand the meaning of neutrality. The person who is motivated to run a site designed to 'tell the truth' and oppose the alleged deception in a christian sect is not neutral & the statement "her website is extremely neutral" is ironic given its' deception.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 20:30:06 GMT -5
As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn’t leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I’d still be in prison.
—Nelson Mandela
I think most ex's would feel the same, they are so glad to be liberated and enjoy their freedom from bondage. They only have regret and compassion for those still trapped by the great deception.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 21:52:53 GMT -5
Truthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. I hope you do not expect Nathan, Wally and co to understand that concept. Yes. I keep forgetting, don't I? |
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Post by joanna on Apr 29, 2019 22:07:02 GMT -5
@redback .
Do you recognise that all those who have faith in that which has not and cannot be proven are 'trapped by great deception'.
Anyone who has even a skerrick of lateral thinking skills, and who identifies the 2x2 workers claim that they preach 'the Truth' and the origins of their belief are from the beginning as being a 'great deception', must simultaneously accept that Christianity is founded on even greater deception.
After all all roads lead to Rome, and every christian sect, from RC through to the CofE, amish, mormons - the entire >30,000 of them, base their belief on biblical miracles.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 22:07:27 GMT -5
you didn't read the page did you. i wasn't commenting on the quotes other people said i was commenting on cheries questions, comments and critics that are throughout the articles on that page that are anything but neutral... I was commenting on the same things you were commenting on. Astute literacy, man! sorry we are not on the same page...nice try though... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 22:10:22 GMT -5
Truthful quotations of what 2x2's say is NOT an indication of bias. Suppressing negative statements is actually bias IN FAVOR of the 2x2's. Quoting ANYONE does not mean the quoter agrees with the quote . . . first rule of thumb for more astute literacy. I hope you do not expect Nathan, Wally and co to understand that concept. i doubt a useful idiot such as yourself would understand anything really.... |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 22:14:28 GMT -5
I was commenting on the same things you were commenting on. Astute literacy, man! sorry we are not on the same page...nice try though... Thanks |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2019 22:15:17 GMT -5
I hope you do not expect Nathan, Wally and co to understand that concept. i doubt a useful idiot such as yourself would understand anything really.... I'm sure you do.  |
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Apr 29, 2019 22:26:42 GMT -5
elizabethcoleman To remain neutral about a subject means you do not have opinions either for or against it. To be neutral is to be impartial; unbiased; non-partisan. These definitions need to be included as it appears you do not understand the meaning of neutrality. The person who is motivated to run a site designed to 'tell the truth' and oppose the alleged deception in a christian sect is not neutral & the statement "her website is extremely neutral" is ironic given its' deception. So... You refer to "alleged deception" of the 2x2s, but "its' [sic] deception" of the TTT website. Hmmm. I'm sure you came to that conclusion based on careful investigation of all the available research. But nevermind, Nathan likes your post. I think that pretty much sums it up. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 22:38:03 GMT -5
What is this thread hoping to achieve? I think we have established folk don’t use the word hate for a start. its just meant to set people at odds with each other in my estimation.... |
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Post by nathan on Apr 29, 2019 22:39:50 GMT -5
elizabethcoleman To remain neutral about a subject means you do not have opinions either for or against it. To be neutral is to be impartial; unbiased; non-partisan. These definitions need to be included as it appears you do not understand the meaning of neutrality. The person who is motivated to run a site designed to 'tell the truth' and oppose the alleged deception in a christian sect is not neutral & the statement "her website is extremely neutral" is ironic given its' deception. So... You refer to "alleged deception" of the 2x2s, but "its' [sic] deception" of the TTT website. Hmmm. I'm sure you came to that conclusion based on careful investigation of all the available research. But nevermind, Nathan likes your post. I think that pretty much sums it up.
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Post by Dennis J on Apr 29, 2019 23:10:55 GMT -5
As a young child first reading my Bible to receive something from the Holy Spirit, I read of the seven things the Lord hates and resolved it would be so for me also, whether found in me or another. And sometimes, to my shame, one of them (or more) has been revealed by THAT Holy Spirit as being found in me.
In extreme remorse the Holy Spirit has reminded me of other more encouraging portions of scripture, “no temptation has befallen you that is not common to man, “ and, “My Grace is sufficient.” Thus it remains. I am to despise those things the Lord Himself hates, tempered with His Grace.
So how many posters here even can relate those seven things without having to look them up? Yes, I wonder... People frequently say, “God didn’t create any garbage” somehow justifying themselves. Personally, I agree, yet it is “recreate” not “create.” Garbage IS what my un-recreated being was, corrupted by the enemy of my soul, and then by my fleshly lusts. But, By God? Absolutely not!
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Post by christiansburg on Apr 30, 2019 0:02:41 GMT -5
TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists. I miss the lists. So let's consider a few questions: - Who would you rank as the 10 most hated enemies of The Truth (from the 2x2's perspective), and in what order?
- Will anyone ever surpass Doug Parker?
- How high up the list does Ross Bowden climb thanks to his performance on 60 Minutes?
Here's my list: 1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them. 2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later. 3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list. 4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them. 5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized 6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward 7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid 8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others. At the top of this list should actually be the Roman Catholic Church. AKA the exposure of a spiritual fraud. It begins to evolve in the 2nd century. 9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion 10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company. Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman Brad Lewis Scott Ross Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh Jeanie and Sam Dudley Edgar Massey |
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