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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 2:51:29 GMT -5
Nathan just stop and think for awhile, instead of shooting your mouth off. Most of the content on TTT has come from sources within the"Truth" church. Cherie did not write it, she just so expertly compiled it so as it is preserved for all time. The resource is used by people both within and outside the Church. What a wonderful resource, and one that only a person like Cherie could achieve. And it is a resource that the Church neglected to keep. Rather than criticise Cherie, you should be forever grateful that such information has been preserved.
Seeing that most of the information has come from sources within the "Truth" Church" you should be proud of the history. Why would you want to suppress it, and say it is evil. That does not make sense to me, and any common sense person. Time for the real truths to be exposed.
Nathan go back to sleep, we need a rest.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 29, 2019 3:29:20 GMT -5
To change the tone a bit .( maybe a bit off topic) .. I have to say, I was impressed with a N.Z. Worker, Stan Chamberlain speaking at the funeral of a young husband, father of 4 tragically killed in an accident. I think they weren’t in the church anymore but his words had the spirit of love and non-judgement and so humbly spoken. Well done Stan. This is what wins souls, not the nonsense that continually is preached on this site by the same old people. Stan's a good bloke. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 29, 2019 3:30:11 GMT -5
Nathan just stop and think for awhile, instead of shooting your mouth off. Most of the content on TTT has come from sources within the"Truth" church. Cherie did not write it, she just so expertly compiled it so as it is preserved for all time. The resource is used by people both within and outside the Church. What a wonderful resource, and one that only a person like Cherie could achieve. And it is a resource that the Church neglected to keep. Rather than criticise Cherie, you should be forever grateful that such information has been preserved. Seeing that most of the information has come from sources within the "Truth" Church" you should be proud of the history. Why would you want to suppress it, and say it is evil. That does not make sense to me, and any common sense person. Time for the real truths to be exposed. Nathan go back to sleep, we need a rest. The enemies of truth never sleep. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 29, 2019 4:02:47 GMT -5
To change the tone a bit .( maybe a bit off topic) .. I have to say, I was impressed with a N.Z. Worker, Stan Chamberlain speaking at the funeral of a young husband, father of 4 tragically killed in an accident. I think they weren’t in the church anymore but his words had the spirit of love and non-judgement and so humbly spoken. Well done Stan. This is what wins souls, not the nonsense that continually is preached on this site by the same old people. Stan's a good bloke. He is. I have a lot of respect for him. |
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Post by speak on Apr 29, 2019 4:09:14 GMT -5
To change the tone a bit .( maybe a bit off topic) .. I have to say, I was impressed with a N.Z. Worker, Stan Chamberlain speaking at the funeral of a young husband, father of 4 tragically killed in an accident. I think they weren’t in the church anymore but his words had the spirit of love and non-judgement and so humbly spoken. Well done Stan. This is what wins souls, not the nonsense that continually is preached on this site by the same old people. Love my cuzz. |
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Post by joanna on Apr 29, 2019 5:10:49 GMT -5
Revealing the history of the 2x2 grp only scrapes a minor and thin surface of a far greater mass.
It seems that until you are completely freed from having faith in that which cannot be proven, that only then are you able to discern the inconsistent attitude of christians who apply one rule to others, whilst following another rule themselves.
How does knowing the physical history of the 2x2 group assist individuals to find 'the Truth' when there is a concurrent disregard for evidencing the history of Christianity and the principles this faith is founded on?
Why do the false claims of one minor christian sect matter to the ex 2x2 still-christian given these individuals continue to accept the many false claims of the bible?
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Post by benar on Apr 29, 2019 5:28:34 GMT -5
Revealing the history of the 2x2 grp only scrapes a minor and thin surface of a far greater mass. It seems that until you are completely freed from having faith in that which cannot be proven, that only then are you able to discern the inconsistent attitude of christians who apply one rule to others, whilst following another rule themselves. How does knowing the physical history of the 2x2 group assist individuals to find 'the Truth' when there is a concurrent disregard for evidencing the history of Christianity and the principles this faith is founded on? Why do the false claims of one minor christian sect matter to the ex 2x2 still-christian given these individuals continue to accept the many false claims of the bible? These are exactly the questions I had after reading Elizabeth Coleman's book. I wanted to ask her "The logic you used to discern the 2x2 group was not correct; why could you not apply that same logic to see that Christianity as a whole is not correct?" |
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Post by joanna on Apr 29, 2019 5:46:29 GMT -5
benar . Yes, i have not read any of the books about the 2x2's as the aim of most of these books ( i understand there are exceptions) seems to fall strategically short of what should be a broader & objective analysis, so the writers can protect their own version of christianity. If only the individuals who have written negatively about the 2x2 grp would have an epiphany and realise the criteria they are using to discredit the 2x2's can be applied to all faiths.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 29, 2019 6:05:02 GMT -5
I KNOW This... the angels of God has been WATCHING people earth and keep records since the days of Adam and Eve.... even to this day! getting ready all the records in order for the judgment day. The Guardian human angels KNOW what I am doing on TMB.  It wasn't by accident that some of the professing people are posting on tmb. We had helped from above.
1) Cherie TTT websites. Does the most damage to the 2x2s.
2) The secret sect book did some damages.
The rest of anti-2x2s books and websites out there didn't harm the 2x2 very much....
You had better watch out if the angel is watching you Nathan, bet she/ he’s given up writing the records on the Venus fabrication, Thor etc etc She’s probably cross -eyed by now and reaching for a stiff whiskey. 1. Nathan and..... ( review in the past) does the most damage to the 2x2’s online . I’m not so sure friends and workers want association with you, well your posts. Hard pill to swallow but time to reflect mate. 2. The secret sect addressed reality. Yes @seventy I think you are right, nathan does more harm to the the 2x2 church than good. Imagine the F&W reading about JC living in Venus and nathan saying the HS told him that is where JC lives !! |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 29, 2019 6:36:32 GMT -5
Let's try to stay on topic: "Who are the 10 most hated enemies of the 2x2s?"
Page 3 and still not a decent attempt at a list by anyone else ... very disappointing. My dreams of arguing Top 10 rankings on ESPN 'TruthCenter' are fading fast.
I bet Alan Kitto would be happy to put together an enemies list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 6:52:10 GMT -5
Nathan just stop and think for awhile, instead of shooting your mouth off. Most of the content on TTT has come from sources within the"Truth" church. Cherie did not write it, she just so expertly compiled it so as it is preserved for all time. The resource is used by people both within and outside the Church. What a wonderful resource, and one that only a person like Cherie could achieve. And it is a resource that the Church neglected to keep. Rather than criticise Cherie, you should be forever grateful that such information has been preserved. Seeing that most of the information has come from sources within the "Truth" Church" you should be proud of the history. Why would you want to suppress it, and say it is evil. That does not make sense to me, and any common sense person. Time for the real truths to be exposed. Nathan go back to sleep, we need a rest. ummm that would not be entirely true she does have her own comments on the site that she wrote... |
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 29, 2019 7:30:50 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Apr 29, 2019 8:01:41 GMT -5
Nathan just stop and think for awhile, instead of shooting your mouth off. Most of the content on TTT has come from sources within the"Truth" church. Cherie did not write it, she just so expertly compiled it so as it is preserved for all time. The resource is used by people both within and outside the Church. What a wonderful resource, and one that only a person like Cherie could achieve. And it is a resource that the Church neglected to keep. Rather than criticise Cherie, you should be forever grateful that such information has been preserved. Seeing that most of the information has come from sources within the "Truth" Church" you should be proud of the history. Why would you want to suppress it, and say it is evil. That does not make sense to me, and any common sense person. Time for the real truths to be exposed. Nathan go back to sleep, we need a rest. ummm that would not be entirely true she does have her own comments on the site that she wrote...
Cherie k. should have just posted the information and allow the readers read the 2x2 history as on its own and leave her own opinions, belief out of it because she takes the history to a different path! Her rabbits path to deceive, lead others astray, and AWAY! from believing in the 2x2s apostolic ministry and fellowship. We all have seen the results! TMB is one of the best evidences.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Apr 29, 2019 8:11:09 GMT -5
I imagine the angels enjoy visiting your website and learning from it. If they asked you for a list of the top enemies of truth, who would be on it and in what order?
1) Cherie TTT websites. Does the most damage to the 2x2s.
2) The secret sect book did some damages.
The rest of anti-2x2s books and websites out there didn't harm the 2x2 very much....
Despite Nathan's huffing and puffing about Cherie, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find anything she has ever said publicly about the group that is negative. Her website is extremely neutral; the documents and letters speak for themselves. Funny how the truth hurts (I think more than a double entendre there). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 8:22:49 GMT -5
I KNOW This... the angels of God has been WATCHING people earth and keep records since the days of Adam and Eve.... even to this day! getting ready all the records in order for the judgment day. The Guardian human angels KNOW what I am doing on TMB. It wasn't by accident that some of the professing people are posting on tmb. We had helped from above.
1) Cherie TTT websites. Does the most damage to the 2x2s.
2) The secret sect book did some damages.
The rest of anti-2x2s books and websites out there didn't harm the 2x2 very much....
Despite Nathan's huffing and puffing about Cherie, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find anything she has ever said publicly about the group that is negative. Her website is extremely neutral; the documents and letters speak for themselves. Funny how the truth hurts (I think more than a double entendre there). one only has to read this page to see that it's not "extremely neutral" www.tellingthetruth.info/history_articles/hearfrom.php |
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Post by matisse on Apr 29, 2019 8:30:00 GMT -5
Despite Nathan's huffing and puffing about Cherie, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find anything she has ever said publicly about the group that is negative. Her website is extremely neutral; the documents and letters speak for themselves. Funny how the truth hurts (I think more than a double entendre there). one only has to read this page to see that it's not "extremely neutral" www.tellingthetruth.info/history_articles/hearfrom.phpI don't see a problem. Would you please elaborate? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 8:34:39 GMT -5
I don't see a problem. Would you please elaborate? her personal comments, questions and critics are all over the page and lead people away from the various origin stories...thats not neutral in any sense of the word.... |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 29, 2019 9:04:07 GMT -5
What is the case for ilylo to be ranked so high? He isn't even mentioned in your write-up. From what I remember, rules a private Christian-exes-only forum and owns The Lying Truth website. Any significant activity beyond that? |
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 29, 2019 9:10:28 GMT -5
Must have been before your time on TMB...
For years, Ilylo was a serious thorn in the flesh to many TMBers! Especially, Nate, Bert, Todd, et al
His direct one line comments cut to the heart of many posts and laid them bare.
Yes, he owns The Liberty Connection Forum (on which I am one of the moderators) and The Lying Truth website, but that wasn't why he was hated so much.
He had 7,127 posts to his credit when he left TMB for good. Check them out.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 29, 2019 11:25:26 GMT -5
Must have been before your time on TMB... For years, Ilylo was a serious thorn in the flesh to many TMBers! Especially, Nate, Bert, Todd, et al His direct one line comments cut to the heart of many posts and laid them bare. Yes, he owns The Liberty Connection Forum (on which I am one of the moderators) and The Lying Truth website, but that wasn't why he was hated so much. He had 7,127 posts to his credit when he left TMB for good. Check them out. I've seen the old posts, just not really impressed with them. I don't get the sense there was much real-world impact. Plus, it's tough to respect someone who retreats into their own echo chamber. He doesn't come close to matching your influence IMO. If I had to name a Lion of the TMB, I'd go with rational. |
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Post by doginfog on Apr 29, 2019 12:08:47 GMT -5
~~ God keeps all kinds of lists, names to sentence the ones who fight against him to send them to the everlasting lake of fire.... Anyone of us on TMB will wish and hope that none of us will be on God's KILLING fields list.
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Heb. 10:10-11 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
Nathan,
I don't know everyone on this list but the ones I do know may have an opinion but they also have the facts to back that opinion up. I personally beleive that God calls us all to tell the truth and I beleive that they have.
You can cry bias but just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are biased. If they have well researched facts to back it up, its not a bias it's wisdom. If some of the 2x2 history involves evil or ignorance.... well its not evil or biased to point that out.
I usually lurk but will also take this opportunity to express my gratitude to Sandy (not mentioned by name in this thread but the founder of the VOT) and Cherie. And one comment on Cherie's timeline.
I was living in Washington State for the second half of 1983, and only heard tiny whispers of the whole mid-80s blowup that was centered in WA State, but then I was young and on my way out. I knew nothing about any of this until I discovered VOT not long its inception. (Thank you Internet). So I rank the internet as a huge enemy of the 2x2's because it shines light. I know there were earlier Exodi prompted by letter campaigns or personal contact but the internet made information much more accessible (for better or for worse.)
And I'm back to lurkerdom.
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 12:51:06 GMT -5
TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists. I miss the lists. So let's consider a few questions: - Who would you rank as the 10 most hated enemies of The Truth (from the 2x2's perspective), and in what order?
- Will anyone ever surpass Doug Parker?
- How high up the list does Ross Bowden climb thanks to his performance on 60 Minutes?
Here's my list: 1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them. 2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later. 3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list. 4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them. 5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized 6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward 7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid 8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others. 9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion 10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company. Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman Brad Lewis Scott Ross Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh Jeanie and Sam Dudley Edgar Massey I thought the only ones theists really really hate are atheists. These guys are still Christians. Is it allowed to hate another Christian? |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 12:52:34 GMT -5
God KNOWS people hearts and their motives for doing all these things. According to them, they are doing God's works. Well, God will be their Judge because HE KNOWS ALL sides and about people hearts and motives. I would NOT want to be in their shoes in the DAY of Judgment, to find out they had been fighting against God just like the RCC has been doing it against God's truth, way and people on the earth for almost 2000 yrs. Saul persecuted and killed God's people, he believed he was doing God's will by eliminate Jesus followers from the face of the earth. Jesus had mercy on Saul and appeared to him in His glorious God formed and opened His understanding and he REPENTED from his sins. Why why why is it that the first thing theists go to is threaten others with hell? Do you think it endears others to your god when all you do is threaten them with his wrath? |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:10:06 GMT -5
I don't think God would trivialise by keepings lists. Not unless God has an Angel with a Laptop. Nah, his lists are written in stone using his pinkie... |
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:18:37 GMT -5
Forget. Where did you get the notion that I would have to forget anything? Forgiving does not require forgetting. |
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 29, 2019 13:24:45 GMT -5
I thought the only ones theists really really hate are atheists. Interesting point. There aren't any atheist written books or websites specifically focused on 2x2s, in part, because there don't need to be. Maybe the top names should be Darwin, Galileo, and Copernicus. I heard so much mocking of science and reason while growing up. |
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Post by mountain on Apr 29, 2019 13:32:36 GMT -5
One bit of advice. Always keep your toe in the water, otherwise you will be forgotten about. I used to feature regularly in Bert's lists, under one category or another.
I feel rejected and it's not nice.
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Post by snow on Apr 29, 2019 13:33:21 GMT -5
I KNOW This... the angels of God has been WATCHING people earth and keep records since the days of Adam and Eve.... even to this day! getting ready all the records in order for the judgment day. The Guardian human angels KNOW what I am doing on TMB. It wasn't by accident that some of the professing people are posting on tmb. We had helped from above.
1) Cherie TTT websites. Does the most damage to the 2x2s.
2) The secret sect book did some damages.
The rest of anti-2x2s books and websites out there didn't harm the 2x2 very much....
Wow, Cherie at #1!!! I guess there is some debate after all. I see the point that Telling The Truth has reached the most people. But here's my argument: Without either Parker or Trimble, the workers probably could have gotten away with the lies about the history, and could have covered William Irvine up for decades or maybe even a century more if not indefinitely. Without the Impartial Reporter, Parker probably would have still found and interviewed witnesses to the early days of 2x2ism. Without Parker, Cherie or others probably still would have found the Impartial Reporter articles. But without newspaper articles and too late for primary source witnesses, we still might be waiting for the first clues to emerge! One of the workers (maybe George Walker?) once said something to the effect of "we almost got away with it undiscovered". Trimble and Parker also get extra credit for their more inflamatory writings, whereas Cherie has been less sensational, even turning down ownership of VOT There are always those who try to deceive and those who uncover the deceit. There are always going to be those who don't believe those who uncover the truth about what those who are trying to deceive really think. I remember one pope telling it like it is. Pope Leo X said: "What profit hath not that fable of Christ brought us". When he became pope on March 9, 1513 Leo X rejoiced. He is reported to have said to his brother Giuliano "Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it". Hear is another quote from Synesius, Bishop of Alexandria in the 4th Century "In my capacity as bishop of the church I shall continue to disseminate the fables of our religion: but in my private capacity I shall remain a philosopher to the end".And Augustine: "There are many things that are true which it is not useful for the vulgar crowd to know; and certain things which although they are false it is expedient for the people to believe otherwise". (Civ. Dei, Lib. IV Cap. XXXI)So it wasn't just the First workers that sought to deceive the 'masses' with their fables, the RCC earliest church fathers did also. Makes you wonder what the real truth about the Christian 'Christos' really is doesn't it. |
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It wasn't by accident that some of the professing people are posting on tmb. We had helped from above.
