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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 5, 2020 17:57:44 GMT -5
I'm not saying its not weird. But it's not NZ that is weird. The Labour Party makes its own rules I assure you, I don't think there's anything weird about NZ or NZers. I think you don't understand your own electoral system. This sounds more like what REALLY happens: No mention of 40-40-20 or labor movement. Fixit is correct. The leader of the Labour party is chosen the way he describes. Labour may not necessarily be the govt. but the leader is still chosen that way. You are kind of correct that the party members are the caucus. There is some dialogue between party branch chairpersons etc when a change is imminent. The National Party seems to choose its leader at caucus. They have had three this year.
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Post by rational on Sept 5, 2020 21:09:55 GMT -5
...that when he presented his grandmother (the Admiral's wife) with the flag (the one that was draped over "the Admiral's" coffin) as is customary, she, at grave side at the Arlington National Cemetary and with camera's rolling, walked over to the coffin, it being still partly open, rumaged around in the inside breast pocket of the jacket "the Admiral" was wearing... It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead.
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Post by nathan on Sept 5, 2020 21:25:19 GMT -5
...that when he presented his grandmother (the Admiral's wife) with the flag (the one that was draped over "the Admiral's" coffin) as is customary, she, at grave side at the Arlington National Cemetary and with camera's rolling, walked over to the coffin, it being still partly open, rumaged around in the inside breast pocket of the jacket "the Admiral" was wearing... It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead. You have been misinformed or led you astray.... I know a lot about Harley Byrd... I did some digging where and what he had been doing.... working for the Navy top secret elite sector, after he left the Blue book project in 1960s. He is telling the TRUTH that he is indeed the Grandson of Admiral Byrd and Harley B. father was a captain in the Navy, during the Operation HighJump in 1947, the son of Admiral Byrd.
Harley's father KNEW about Admiral Byrd journey into the Hollow earth 1947 and the conversation with inner earth beings.
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Post by rational on Sept 5, 2020 22:06:18 GMT -5
It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead. You have been misinformed or led you astray.... I know a lot about Harley Byrd... I did some digging where and what he had been doing.... working for the Navy top secret elite sector, after he left the Blue book project in 1960s. He is telling the TRUTH that he is indeed the Grandson of Admiral Byrd and Harley B. father was a captain in the Navy, during the Operation HighJump in 1947, the son of Admiral Byrd.
Harley's father KNEW about Admiral Byrd journey into the Hollow earth 1947 and the conversation with inner earth beings.
Who was Harley's father. As Admiral Byrd's grandson his father or mother should show up on the family tree. Wouldn't Harley's father or mother be Admiral Byrd's children? Can you show where? You keep claiming to have this data but you never show it. I posted several sources that contained the Byrd family history and no Harley. In fact, no person at all that could have been Harley. What is his educational background? There must be records at the institutions he attended. You, so far, have not presented any primary sources to support your claims. Family tree - No HarleyRichard Evelyn Byrd Admiral Born 25 October 1888 - Winchester, Frederick Co., VA Deceased 11 March 1957 - Boston, Suffolk Co., MA, aged 68 years old Buried - Arlington National Cem., Arlington, VA Parents Richard Evelyn Byrd 1860-1925 Eleanor Bolling Flood 1868- Spouses, children and grandchildren Married 20 January 1915 to Marie Donaldson with M Richard Evelyn Byrd 1920-1988 With ? ? with M Richard Byrd M Leverett S. Byrd M Ames Byrd M Harry Flood Byrd F Evelyn Bolling Byrd With X Clarke with F Evelyn Byrde Clarke F Marie Ames Clarke F Eleanor Clarke M Richard Byrd Clarke F Catherine Agnes Byrd With X Breyer with M Robert Byrd Breyer F Katherine Ames Breyer F Helen Byrd With X Stabler with M David Stabler F Ann Blanchard Stabler
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Post by fixit on Sept 5, 2020 22:11:00 GMT -5
I assure you, I don't think there's anything weird about NZ or NZers. I think you don't understand your own electoral system. This sounds more like what REALLY happens: No mention of 40-40-20 or labor movement. Fixit is correct. The leader of the Labour party is chosen the way he describes. Labour may not necessarily be the govt. but the leader is still chosen that way. You are kind of correct that the party members are the caucus. There is some dialogue between party branch chairpersons etc when a change is imminent. The National Party seems to choose its leader at caucus. They have had three this year. Caucus is members of parliament - a very small subset of party members. Since Helen Clark and John Key were PM and Opposition leader (2008): National: 4 leaders Labour: 6 leaders
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 5, 2020 22:11:24 GMT -5
I assure you, I don't think there's anything weird about NZ or NZers. I think you don't understand your own electoral system. This sounds more like what REALLY happens: No mention of 40-40-20 or labor movement. Fixit is correct. The leader of the Labour party is chosen the way he describes. Labour may not necessarily be the govt. but the leader is still chosen that way. You are kind of correct that the party members are the caucus. There is some dialogue between party branch chairpersons etc when a change is imminent. The National Party seems to choose its leader at caucus. They have had three this year. I get it -- it's an intra-party matter rather than a prime minister selection matter. THAT makes sense. The 40-40-20 deal makes him/her the leader of the party, not the prime minister. Whoever is selected, still has to get elected along with enough other people to give him/her a chance to be appointed prime minister. Right? Yes -- the word caucus is also used for that some would call a party convention to choose the party leader.
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Post by fixit on Sept 5, 2020 22:18:40 GMT -5
I'm not saying its not weird. But it's not NZ that is weird. The Labour Party makes its own rules I assure you, I don't think there's anything weird about NZ or NZers. I think you don't understand your own electoral system. This sounds more like what REALLY happens: No mention of 40-40-20 or labor movement. In practice, the position typically falls to an MP who is the parliamentary leader of the largest political party among those forming the government. It's the 40/40/20 vote that determines the parliamentary Labour Party leader. It's a Labour Party internal matter - nothing to do with the Governor General or the General Election.
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Post by fixit on Sept 5, 2020 22:20:39 GMT -5
Fixit is correct. The leader of the Labour party is chosen the way he describes. Labour may not necessarily be the govt. but the leader is still chosen that way. You are kind of correct that the party members are the caucus. There is some dialogue between party branch chairpersons etc when a change is imminent. The National Party seems to choose its leader at caucus. They have had three this year. I get it -- it's an intra-party matter rather than a prime minister selection matter. THAT makes sense. The 40-40-20 deal makes him/her the leader of the party, not the prime minister. Whoever is selected, still has to get elected along with enough other people to give him/her a chance to be appointed prime minister. Right? Yes -- the word caucus is also used for that some would call a party convention to choose the party leader. You've got it. Yes, we use the word caucus differently in NZ.
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Post by nathan on Sept 5, 2020 22:22:22 GMT -5
You have been misinformed or led you astray.... I know a lot about Harley Byrd... I did some digging where and what he had been doing.... working for the Navy top secret elite sector, after he left the Blue book project in 1960s. He is telling the TRUTH that he is indeed the Grandson of Admiral Byrd and Harley B. father was a captain in the Navy, during the Operation HighJump in 1947, the son of Admiral Byrd.
Harley's father KNEW about Admiral Byrd journey into the Hollow earth 1947 and the conversation with inner earth beings.
Who was Harley's father. As Admiral Byrd's grandson his father should show up on the family tree. Wouldn't Harley's father/mother be Admiral Byrd's sibling? Can you show where? You keep claiming to have this data but you never show it. I posted several sources that contained the Byrd family history and no Harley. In fact, no person at all that could have been Harley. What is his educational background? There must be records at the institutions he attended. You, so far, have not presented any primary sources to support your claims. I showed to you before many times! in the past and it seems you don't remember it... We have been on this subject so many times in the past... Here we go again!~~ Nathan: Here is Harley Andrew Byrd testimony LIVE the Art Bell Radio show Harley Byrd InterviewOctober 19th, 1995 On this page you will find various postings to the Hollow Earth list about the interview with Harley Byrd by Art Bell on his radio show which was broadcast, Thursday evening, October 19th. Harley Byrd claims to be Admiral Byrd's grandson. I recall in a UFO magazine in California, seeing a listing for Harley Byrd and his interest in UFOs and the Hollow Earth. From there as Art got progressively more and more freaked out Harley went on to tell about the mysterious death of his father, his family last seeing him as he left the family home on his way to address a National Geographic Society group on certain aspects of *the story* ... how he was found a few days later in a warehouse dead, seemingly having suffered dehydration and malnourishment ?!! www.v-j-enterprises.com/byrdgson.htmlRichard Evelyn Byrd III was Harley Byrd's father.
Richard Evelyn Byrd III (February 19, 1920 – c. October 3, 1988) was a United States naval officer, Antarctic explorer, and the son of Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd. Early life[edit] Richard Evelyn Byrd III (usually referred to as Richard E. Byrd, Jr.) was born on February 19, 1920[1] to famed naval aviator and explorer Richard Evelyn Byrd Jr. and his wife, Marie Donaldson Ames. The younger Richard was a graduate of Milton Academy and Harvard College.[2] Military career[edit] During World War II he was commissioned an ensign in the Naval Reserve on April 6, 1942 and was promoted to lieutenant (junior grade) on January 1, 1944. He was promoted to lieutenant by the war's end and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant commander in the Naval Reserve after the war. He accompanied his father on Operation Highjump to explore Antarctica in 1946.
Personal life[edit] In 1948, he married Emily Saltonstall (d. 2006), the daughter of longtime Massachusetts Senator Leverett Saltonstall. They divorced in 1960. He had five children and six grandchildren. He worked as a financial advisor with Morgan Stanley. Death[edit] He died on or about October 3, 1988, at the age of 68. His body was found in a warehouse in Baltimore, Maryland. He had gone missing on September 13, 1988, after being placed on a train in Boston bound for Washington, D.C. Byrd was supposed to attend a National Geographic Society event honoring the 100th anniversary of his father's birth, but never arrived.[2]The cause of his death was dehydration and malnutrition which resulted from Alzheimer's disease.[3] He was buried, near his father Ricard E. Byrd the Admiral, in Arlington National Cemetery.[1][4]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Evelyn_Byrd_III ~~ Nathan: Harley Byrd's father is Richard E. Byrd III and his father was Richard E. Byrd the Admiral. Harley Byrd is the grandson of Richard E. Byrd the Admiral.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 5, 2020 22:28:18 GMT -5
I assure you, I don't think there's anything weird about NZ or NZers. I think you don't understand your own electoral system. This sounds more like what REALLY happens: No mention of 40-40-20 or labor movement. In practice, the position typically falls to an MP who is the parliamentary leader of the largest political party among those forming the government. It's the 40/40/20 vote that determines the parliamentary Labour Party leader. It's a Labour Party internal matter - nothing to do with the Governor General or the General Election. I realize that now. You didn't tell me you were talking about how the party leader was selected. The union, I understand, does not enter into discussions with the governor general before appointing the prime minister.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 5, 2020 22:31:52 GMT -5
I get it -- it's an intra-party matter rather than a prime minister selection matter. THAT makes sense. The 40-40-20 deal makes him/her the leader of the party, not the prime minister. Whoever is selected, still has to get elected along with enough other people to give him/her a chance to be appointed prime minister. Right? Yes -- the word caucus is also used for that some would call a party convention to choose the party leader. You've got it. Yes, we use the word caucus differently in NZ. We use the word caucus that way here in the US also, but it is strictly for selecting a party leader, not a prime minister/speaker of the house. Got it all. Thanks
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Post by fixit on Sept 6, 2020 1:35:18 GMT -5
You've got it. Yes, we use the word caucus differently in NZ. We use the word caucus that way here in the US also, but it is strictly for selecting a party leader, not a prime minister/speaker of the house. Got it all. Thanks Our speak is different to yours as well. He/she is like a ref, maintaining order in the house. They have to power to expel a member from the house for bad behaviour, but that's about the limit of it. I presume the Canadian system is quite like ours?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 2:15:19 GMT -5
Basically New Zealand. Australia and Canada have followed the Westminster system. Probably works fairly well. We enjoy stable Government, and there has been a great shift to middle ground. That seems to be the best place to be.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2020 3:16:21 GMT -5
We use the word caucus that way here in the US also, but it is strictly for selecting a party leader, not a prime minister/speaker of the house. Got it all. Thanks Our speak is different to yours as well. He/she is like a ref, maintaining order in the house. They have to power to expel a member from the house for bad behaviour, but that's about the limit of it. I presume the Canadian system is quite like ours?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 6, 2020 3:33:47 GMT -5
Our speak is different to yours as well. He/she is like a ref, maintaining order in the house. They have to power to expel a member from the house for bad behaviour, but that's about the limit of it. I presume the Canadian system is quite like ours? Yes, the Canadian system is virtually the same as yours, with a few adjustments for sure. The parliamentary system of government is generally more representative in pluralistic societies and more responsible to the general voting public. Also, their election laws make it so that you don't have to be filthy rich to get elected to parliament.
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Post by mountain on Sept 6, 2020 5:00:00 GMT -5
...that when he presented his grandmother (the Admiral's wife) with the flag (the one that was draped over "the Admiral's" coffin) as is customary, she, at grave side at the Arlington National Cemetary and with camera's rolling, walked over to the coffin, it being still partly open, rumaged around in the inside breast pocket of the jacket "the Admiral" was wearing... It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead. Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this!
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Dorothy
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Me (left) with Sister Rose
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Post by Dorothy on Sept 6, 2020 14:25:26 GMT -5
It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead. Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this! Ah yes. There were many people who write on this blog who refuse to believe my mother even existed. Even letters and photos would not convince them.
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Post by rational on Sept 6, 2020 15:14:04 GMT -5
It simply didn't happen. There would be film. People would have noted it in accounts of the service. There is no person listed in the Byrd family that could be Harley. It is a fabrication. Some have pointed to a person known for creating stories like this. Caskets are not opened (or reopened) at the graveside so someone can go through the pockets of the dead. Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this! There is a grain of truth in what you say but nathan said that Harley's father was a Navy officer. And the fact that it is claimed he was at the funeral would indicate that his birth and parentage was acknowledged. But there is no mention of it anywhere. No school records, no military records, nothing. Anyway, on this page the writer (?Harley?) claims to be the nephew to the late Rear Admiral Richard R.E. Byrd. If his uncle was the Admiral how could the Admiral's wife be his grandmother? The story just keeps getting more and more holes.
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Post by mountain on Sept 6, 2020 17:49:49 GMT -5
Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this! There is a grain of truth in what you say but nathan said that Harley's father was a Navy officer. And the fact that it is claimed he was at the funeral would indicate that his birth and parentage was acknowledged. But there is no mention of it anywhere. No school records, no military records, nothing. Anyway, on this page the writer (?Harley?) claims to be the nephew to the late Rear Admiral Richard R.E. Byrd. If his uncle was the Admiral how could the Admiral's wife be his grandmother? The story just keeps getting more and more holes.
Are you suggesting that Nathan is presenting yet more 'hollow' arguments?
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Post by mountain on Sept 6, 2020 17:52:10 GMT -5
Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this! Ah yes. There were many people who write on this blog who refuse to believe my mother even existed. Even letters and photos would not convince them. At last the voice of reason! Yet Nathan will continue to falsely state that I am the poster Dorothy.
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Post by joanna on Sept 6, 2020 19:34:24 GMT -5
openingact34 Christians overwhelmingly refer to Jesus as benign and kind. Yet this is in complete contrast to the biblical accounts. Not until gentle Jesus, meek and mild, are you told if you don’t make the right propitiations you can depart into everlasting fire. One of the most wicked ideas ever preached and one that has ruined the lives and peace of mind of many, many children…preached to them by vicious, child-hating old men and women in the name of this ghastly cult. - Christopher Hitchens
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Post by rational on Sept 6, 2020 19:40:12 GMT -5
There is a grain of truth in what you say but nathan said that Harley's father was a Navy officer. And the fact that it is claimed he was at the funeral would indicate that his birth and parentage was acknowledged. But there is no mention of it anywhere. No school records, no military records, nothing. Anyway, on this page the writer (?Harley?) claims to be the nephew to the late Rear Admiral Richard R.E. Byrd. If his uncle was the Admiral how could the Admiral's wife be his grandmother? The story just keeps getting more and more holes.
Are you suggesting that Nathan is presenting yet more 'hollow' arguments? I wish I had said that...
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Post by rational on Sept 6, 2020 19:43:28 GMT -5
Ah yes. There were many people who write on this blog who refuse to believe my mother even existed. Even letters and photos would not convince them. At last the voice of reason! Yet Nathan will continue to falsely state that I am the poster Dorothy. There are no so deaf as those who do not read. Or is it - There are none so blind as those who cannot hear. It must be something.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 20:06:09 GMT -5
At last the voice of reason! Yet Nathan will continue to falsely state that I am the poster Dorothy. There are no so deaf as those who do not read. Or is it - There are none so blind as those who cannot hear. It must be something. Brilliant
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Post by nathan on Sept 6, 2020 21:42:45 GMT -5
Regarding the highlighted sentence above, I would not put too much importance on that. Some claimed that Willian Irvine did not have a sister called Dorothy merely on account there is no historical record of this! There is a grain of truth in what you say but nathan said that Harley's father was a Navy officer. And the fact that it is claimed he was at the funeral would indicate that his birth and parentage was acknowledged. But there is no mention of it anywhere. No school records, no military records, nothing. Anyway, on this page the writer (?Harley?) claims to be the nephew to the late Rear Admiral Richard R.E. Byrd. If his uncle was the Admiral how could the Admiral's wife be his grandmother? The story just keeps getting more and more holes. That page came from Frank Stranges Book. It was Frank Stranges who made the mistake and thought he was the Nephew of Admiral Byrd. Harley said it on the Radio with Art Bell that he is the GRANDSON not a Nephew of Admiral Byrd. ~~ Nathan: Here is Harley Andrew Byrd testimony LIVE the Art Bell Radio show Harley Byrd Interview
October 19th, 1995 On this page you will find various postings to the Hollow Earth list about the interview with Harley Byrd by Art Bell on his radio show which was broadcast, Thursday evening, October 19th. Harley Byrd claims to be Admiral Byrd's grandson. I recall in a UFO magazine in California, seeing a listing for Harley Byrd and his interest in UFOs and the Hollow Earth. From there as Art got progressively more and more freaked out Harley went on to tell about the mysterious death of his father, his family last seeing him as he left the family home on his way to address a National Geographic Society group on certain aspects of *the story* ... how he was found a few days later in a warehouse dead, seemingly having suffered dehydration and malnourishment ?!! www.v-j-enterprises.com/byrdgson.htmlRichard Evelyn Byrd III was Harley Byrd's father.Richard Evelyn Byrd III (February 19, 1920 – c. October 3, 1988) was a United States naval officer, Antarctic explorer, and the son of Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd. Early life[edit] Richard Evelyn Byrd III (usually referred to as Richard E. Byrd, Jr.) was born on February 19, 1920[1] to famed naval aviator and explorer Richard Evelyn Byrd Jr. and his wife, Marie Donaldson Ames. The younger Richard was a graduate of Milton Academy and Harvard College.[2]Military career[edit] During World War II he was commissioned an ensign in the Naval Reserve on April 6, 1942 and was promoted to lieutenant (junior grade) on January 1, 1944. He was promoted to lieutenant by the war's end and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant commander in the Naval Reserve after the war. He accompanied his father on Operation Highjump to explore Antarctica in 1946. Personal life[edit] In 1948, he married Emily Saltonstall (d. 2006), the daughter of longtime Massachusetts Senator Leverett Saltonstall. They divorced in 1960. He had five children and six grandchildren. He worked as a financial advisor with Morgan Stanley. Death[edit]
He died on or about October 3, 1988, at the age of 68. His body was found in a warehouse in Baltimore, Maryland. He had gone missing on September 13, 1988, after being placed on a train in Boston bound for Washington, D.C. Byrd was supposed to attend a National Geographic Society event honoring the 100th anniversary of his father's birth, but never arrived.[2]The cause of his death was dehydration and malnutrition which resulted from Alzheimer's disease.[3] He was buried, near his father Ricard E. Byrd the Admiral, in Arlington National Cemetery.[1][4] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Evelyn_Byrd_III ~~ Nathan: Harley Byrd's father is Richard E. Byrd III and his father was Richard E. Byrd the Admiral. Harley Byrd is the grandson of Richard E. Byrd the Admiral. Here are your own words, rational........ "There are no so deaf as those who do not read. Or is it - There are none so blind as those who cannot hear. It must be something."
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Post by nathan on Sept 6, 2020 22:00:42 GMT -5
openingact34 Christians overwhelmingly refer to Jesus as benign and kind. Yet this is in complete contrast to the biblical accounts. Not until gentle Jesus, meek and mild, are you told if you don’t make the right propitiations you can depart into everlasting fire. One of the most wicked ideas ever preached and one that has ruined the lives and peace of mind of many, many children…preached to them by vicious, child-hating old men and women in the name of this ghastly cult. - Christopher Hitchens The fallen human sinners were on their WAY to HELL for eternity! because of Adam and Eve horrible choice in the garden of Eden. The choice of choosing partaken the forbidden fruit separated them from entering heaven. Jesus came down from heaven/Venus to DIE for theirs and our sins to set ALL humans FREE from Satan hell holes in Hades/inner earth where theirs souls were/are staying.
The atheists and unbelievers on this board, BELIEVE God the Father sent Christ Jesus come to earth to sent people to HELL, that is further from the TRUTH. Christ came down from heaven NOT to send people to hell but take them HOME in heaven where they belong NOT in the Lake of Fire with Satan and the fallen angels.
If the human sinners and unbelievers want to join Satan in Hell/Lake of fire for eternity God will let them join Satan and his demonic angels.
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