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Post by Hypothetical on May 29, 2007 9:34:01 GMT -5
What if the F&W's grew in such an enormous way in one area that they could not have meetings in a home because they were to small? People in the neighborhoods complained and the local ordnances did not allow for so many cars parked every morning at all these houses.
Would they the (F&W's) find a common place to have Sunday worship because the houses no longer could accommodate the many and was in direct violation of the local ordnances?
Would that common place (not being a house) be considered a church building?
hypothetical
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Post by Encourage on May 29, 2007 9:40:52 GMT -5
My guess would be they would rent a building. They would not refer to it as a church, but as a place of meeting.
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Post by no big deal on May 29, 2007 9:51:36 GMT -5
They would just add more meetings.
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Post by So Then on May 29, 2007 9:51:59 GMT -5
My guess would be they would rent a building. They would not refer to it as a church, but as a place of meeting. So then they (The F&W's) would be under financial bondage, (something they rail about in other churches) because they would need to come up with money to rent a place every Sunday? I fail to see the difference in renting a place for Every Sunday worship or any other Church for which the members donate for a regular place of worship?
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Post by The Context on May 29, 2007 9:54:55 GMT -5
They would just add more meetings. The context of the original post led me to believe that was not possible. If they did then say every 10 city blocks there would be a meeting. (just a made up number) Would this be considered a CELL CHURCH?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2007 10:32:46 GMT -5
I agree with the poster that meetings would simply be added. That's the beauty of the home church system, it can expand and contract with very little pain.
In a huge growth scenario, meetings would continue to stay small so that parking ordinances would not be a problem in almost all areas. If it were a problem, people would probably start carpooling or taking public transit. In areas where parking ordinances are very restrictive, public transit is usually very good.
I don't forsee the f&ws ever starting to get regular church services placed in special buildings.
The home church system has its inherent problems, but growth and contraction is typically not one of them.
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Post by Encourage on May 29, 2007 10:46:42 GMT -5
In our area, they have had Special Meetings in school buildings. I thought they probably had to pay for the rental. So just thought perhaps they would do the same if the number of folks became very large.
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Post by Boy on May 29, 2007 11:25:00 GMT -5
Say an entire city, such as New York (population nearly ten million,) was to profess. If there were 20 people per church service then I suppose you would have half a million home churches. It scales up and down wonderfully. At one stage such a scenario probably took place (ie 2nd and 3rd centuries AD.) That would sure make for a confusing union Sunday.
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Post by ngl on May 29, 2007 12:06:31 GMT -5
I think that the exact reverse of what is currently happening would happen.
When meetings get too small meetings consolidate. Some meetings are closed.
I'd guess if there was many people professing-more meetings would be added. Frankly, I think this senerio is a part of the "in your dreams category."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2007 12:25:53 GMT -5
I think that the exact reverse of what is currently happening would happen. When meetings get too small meetings consolidate. Some meetings are closed. I'd guess if there was many people professing-more meetings would be added. Frankly, I think this senerio is a part of the "in your dreams category." The convention system would be the most painful in either scenario, sudden growth or sudden decline. There is a huge investment tied up in convention facilities. Sudden growth would probably force the tradition of psuedofarms to end and go to rented facilities more like special meetings. Decline is not quite so painful. The buildings are just getting more empty but convention is still able to carry on just fine from an operational standpoint. As friends decline, convention becomes a bigger investment/capita of friends but a convention built for 1200 could still be used for 200 friends when the time comes. However, there would come a time when it would be obvious that the system is not working and the convention as we know it would have to be closed or modified for small numbers. It's much more difficult to combine conventions than it is to combine home church meetings. Conventions are typically quite far apart geographically so it becomes more of a strain for people to attend if the distances become too great.
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Post by dates on May 29, 2007 12:44:38 GMT -5
Say an entire city, such as New York (population nearly ten million,) was to profess. If there were 20 people per church service then I suppose you would have half a million home churches. It scales up and down wonderfully. At one stage such a scenario probably took place (ie 2nd and 3rd centuries AD.) It would have been in the 4 th century following Constantine's announcement of toleration of Christianity in the Edict of Milan in 313.
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Post by Doggie on May 29, 2007 13:00:25 GMT -5
There have been places where more than half the population were members of the workers church.
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Post by yea but on May 29, 2007 15:11:10 GMT -5
There have been places where more than half the population were members of the workers church. Yea but, there were only two families who lived in that town. One family had a child and the other did not. The grass huts worked just fine
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2007 21:26:18 GMT -5
quote - "I'd guess if there was many people professing-more meetings would be added. Frankly, I think this senerio is a part of the "in your dreams category." No, I wasn't "dreaming." I was just doing some hypothetical math. In New York I believe there are only two churches. I find that so strange.
www.churchangel.com/nycity.htmKarl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2007 21:36:51 GMT -5
Hey Karl.... er, are WE in that list?[/quot Beats me. Karl
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Post by to Nathan on May 30, 2007 2:15:20 GMT -5
What's the difference between 2X2 Christians and non-2X2 Christians?
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timber
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Post by timber on May 30, 2007 9:30:26 GMT -5
Thanks for your post Bert. Would you say that the itinerant ministry of today is an exact pattern of that found in the New Testament? Where does it record women going out 2x2? Where do we read of a bunch of those in the ministry getting together to preach to people for 4 days? Does the ministry in the New Testament, besides being evangelists, take on the role of elders? Today's elders in the 2x2 church are more like deacons, IMO. Were any of the ministry in the New Testament married?
Just a few questions and I look forward to your responses. Thanks.
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Post by Encourage on May 30, 2007 10:06:53 GMT -5
Bert, Reading your response to the difference between 2x2 Christians and non 2x2 Christians....the only difference is the fact of going out in 2s and the church bldg. Is that it?
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Post by Hummm on May 30, 2007 10:51:01 GMT -5
From bert
You are sure? Who else talked other then Jesus? Would this not be recorded in the Gospels? You are sure and you are very wrong.
This is how all of your justifications are. Pure speculation to support your beliefs. I don't expect you to respond to this. I do expect you to explore that one little statement. In it you will see that you are adding to the Gospels to support what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE and not Truth.
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Post by I Agree on May 30, 2007 10:57:13 GMT -5
1: And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2: And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying,,
It says He being (Jesus) not they.
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Post by ANDREW M on May 30, 2007 16:44:46 GMT -5
A reading of Acts of the Apostles suggests that out of all the believers who preached and taught the things of Jesus, those who went out in itinerant fashion, either by being called of God or sent out by their churches were in fact in the minority of those involved in overall preaching and teaching.
Many traditional churches are more akin in this respect to the NT ministry than the 2x2 church is. The 2x2 church only attempts to follow one part of the ministerial form.
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Post by not speculation on May 30, 2007 18:48:06 GMT -5
From bert You are sure? Who else talked other then Jesus? Would this not be recorded in the Gospels? You are sure and you are very wrong.This is how all of your justifications are. Pure speculation to support your beliefs. I don't expect you to respond to this. I do expect you to explore that one little statement. In it you will see that you are adding to the Gospels to support what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE and not Truth. And what did Jesus command His disciples to do? Go forth into all the world, teaching them ,preaching and baptising in MY NAME all those things I have commanded you..
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Post by not speculation on May 30, 2007 18:50:59 GMT -5
From bert You are sure? Who else talked other then Jesus? Would this not be recorded in the Gospels? You are sure and you are very wrong.This is how all of your justifications are. Pure speculation to support your beliefs. I don't expect you to respond to this. I do expect you to explore that one little statement. In it you will see that you are adding to the Gospels to support what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE and not Truth. [/quote And what did Jesus command His disciples to do? Go forth into all the world, teaching them ,preaching and baptising in MY NAME all those things I have commanded you..
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Post by Apples and Oranges on May 30, 2007 20:04:37 GMT -5
Bert was implying that Jesus let the Disciples teach when Jesus was on the Mount and the multitude followed him. The was a comparison to the workers and convention gathering. Jesus was the one teaching as He was also teaching his disciples. It was down the road a little in time before he sent his disciples out-first to the Jews and then upon Jesus preparing to go to the Father he instructed the now Apostles to go to all the world. These are two totally different situations. They do not equate to what insinuations Bert was trying to make. As always Berts thinking adds to the scripture to justify what he wants to believe.
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dont misread what bert wrote
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Post by dont misread what bert wrote on May 30, 2007 20:17:13 GMT -5
bert wasnt drawing any bow with the workers - he just wondered if the disciples helped Jesus preach does it say that Jesus did all the talking for 3 days? no, so dont say it is or isnt true
your attention to SOME bits of the holy word is impressive - but dont swat at knats and swallow camels
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Post by a believer on May 30, 2007 20:50:57 GMT -5
Not really. Some churches send out 2x2's, and some churches meet in homes. Its a lot more than that. And, some things leads to other things. If you build a church then you can't really have itinerant ministers, for instance. And if they are not itinerant, then they take on the form of priests. And priests can officiate between God and man. And you need money for all this. And seeing how you have created something not in the New Testament, why stop at just the priest and the temple? Who said if you have Church buildings you can't have itinerant ministers? Many people go out from churches preaching the Gospel. The ministers/pastors are over the existing church while missionaries and others go out as itinerant preachers. As the post above wrote, the workers church only has part of the ministry. The church has the stationary and itinerant preachers. The workers church only has the itinerant who in fact are stationary. There are no wandering workers, being appointed to go to a different area every year or two is not really wandering, itinerant preachers. They are stationary preachers who change area every couple of years.
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Post by no flying visits on May 30, 2007 21:09:17 GMT -5
didnt Paul stay in certain areas for a while? preaching and pastoral duties mean you cant stay a week, can it?
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Post by imnx2 on May 31, 2007 0:16:06 GMT -5
[quote author=timber board=general thread=1180449241 ~~~ N9: Peter and a few others apostles were married but most of them were NOT married just like Jesus. Scripture please on the "most of them were NOT married".
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