nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 8:45:23 GMT -5
For crying out loud in a bucket, how many times does one need to refute this nonsense? The Vaudois Christians, also known as the Waldensians, are a Christian movement that emerged in the 12th century. They were founded by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant from Lyon, France, who renounced his wealth and began preaching a life of poverty and adherence to the Gospels. Evidence Against the Vaudois Christians Existing Since Paul: Historical Records: The earliest historical records of the Waldensians date back to the 12th century, with no evidence linking them to the apostolic age or to Paul. Historical documents, including those from the Roman Catholic Church and various secular sources, place their origins in the High Middle Ages. Peter Waldo: The founder of the Waldensians, Peter Waldo, lived in the 12th century. There is no historical connection between him and the early Christian communities established by Paul. Lack of Continuity: There is no continuous historical or doctrinal line connecting the early Christian communities established by Paul to the Waldensians. The early Christian Church went through many transformations and schisms, and the Waldensians represent one of the later reform movements rather than a direct continuation of Paul's ministry. Evidence For the Claim (Though Limited and Largely Disputed): Waldensian Claims: Some Waldensians have historically claimed that their beliefs and practices are a continuation of the original apostolic teachings. They argue that they preserved a purer form of Christianity that predated the corruption they perceived in the Roman Catholic Church. Reformation Era Writings: During the Protestant Reformation, some reformers and Waldensian leaders asserted that their movement was a continuation of an ancient and unbroken line of true Christian believers. These claims were part of a broader effort to legitimize their break from the Catholic Church by asserting historical continuity. Oral Traditions: Some oral traditions within the Waldensian community suggest a lineage dating back to early Christianity. However, these traditions are not substantiated by historical evidence and are often seen as part of the group's identity and self-understanding rather than factual history. In conclusion, the claim that Vaudois Christians have existed since the time of Paul lacks substantial historical evidence. The consensus among historians is that the Waldensian movement began in the 12th century with Peter Waldo and that their claims of ancient origins are more ideological than factual. Mad props to you for doing much more research into them and having a more solid mountain of evidence than I did! What is funny is that the claims made by the Vaudois/Waldensians about being "the original" are the same made by the 2x2s...and the Catholics...and all 3 groups couldn't be more wrong. Ahhh, humans! Both of you haven’t done enough of your research on the Vaudois and Waldenses! You have many pieces of the puzzle but NOT seeing the complete picture of it. You two came up with all kinds of half truth conclusion of things! It took me more than 40 years to study about the Vaudois and those like them for 2000 years. I have a lot of their teachings, belief, testimonies and historical documents saved up. I have historical document of the Vaudois/Waldenses from 67-1800 A.D. and to the time of the Faith Mission 2x2 in 1895 and 2x2 workers in 1898-2024.
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nathan2
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Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 8:46:13 GMT -5
So they are pastors not apostles/ evangelists. Jesus would roll over in his grave (so to speak) at some church started by Willian Irvine 125 years ago claiming to be the only true church. We are seeing the fruits of it and it's not good. It's hilarious some of the answers you come up with. You forget we were born and raised in the group. The apostles/workers are Preachers, teachers, Evangelists, pastors, ministers, missionaries, some workers have met gifts than others! To be apostles you must learn and know how to preach/teach and relay the message so the listeners can understand Salvation comes only through Jesus; it is Jesus who saves! After they have many converts they must learn to feed them and protect them as pastors! they appoint church elders the responsibilities to feed and cares for the lambs and sheep of God. Yes, many of you born and raise but don’t fully the understand the miracles of how Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and the fellowship work. It’s truly amazing because it designed by God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit before the foundation of the Universe was created! The Godhead plans the blood of the Lamb/Jesus the Christ/God saves the mortal sinners from the eternal lake of fire= Eternal separation from God’s presence forever/the Second Death.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 10:52:22 GMT -5
The claim that the Vaudois Christians make of having existed since Paul is a claim made by one of their preachers, Pastor Henri Arnaud...in the 17th century. There have been references that speak to their existence as far back as the early 1100s. So...either Paul lived for over a millennium, or the claim that they existed since then holds about as much water as the 2x2 church claiming the same thing. I mean, if you wait 1000-1900 years, you can make any claim you want because there is no way to refute it. Just saying "see, you can't prove my claim as false," does not automatically mean your claim is true. Lack of counter proof does not validate a wildly false claim. If it works like that, then: Unless anyone can show me verified and documented proof to the contrary, an advanced life form, far more developed than humans, colonized Jupiter in 1354 AD and have developed cloaking technology to hide from human's prying eyes. This isn't intended to be a personal attack. Just an observation that any current religious institutions claiming to go back "to Jesus" is just out to mislead people and coerce them to give the church leaders money. There is a very good website of the Vaudois/Waldenses Church history, belief, teachings, they practice Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry, going in pairs just like Jesus sent them out! sell all possessions for those go in the ministry. No seminary! The younger preacher joined and train by an older worker. The 2x2 early days workers teachings and the Vaudois are almost identical. You can google The Pilgrim Church by Broadbent chapter V. I have looked other websites on line also, I say the Pilgrim church book gives the reader a lot of information from 68-1800 A.D.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 10, 2024 13:38:25 GMT -5
The claim that the Vaudois Christians make of having existed since Paul is a claim made by one of their preachers, Pastor Henri Arnaud...in the 17th century. There have been references that speak to their existence as far back as the early 1100s. So...either Paul lived for over a millennium, or the claim that they existed since then holds about as much water as the 2x2 church claiming the same thing. I mean, if you wait 1000-1900 years, you can make any claim you want because there is no way to refute it. Just saying "see, you can't prove my claim as false," does not automatically mean your claim is true. Lack of counter proof does not validate a wildly false claim. If it works like that, then: Unless anyone can show me verified and documented proof to the contrary, an advanced life form, far more developed than humans, colonized Jupiter in 1354 AD and have developed cloaking technology to hide from human's prying eyes. This isn't intended to be a personal attack. Just an observation that any current religious institutions claiming to go back "to Jesus" is just out to mislead people and coerce them to give the church leaders money. For crying out loud in a bucket, how many times does one need to refute this nonsense? The Vaudois Christians, also known as the Waldensians, are a Christian movement that emerged in the 12th century. They were founded by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant from Lyon, France, who renounced his wealth and began preaching a life of poverty and adherence to the Gospels. Evidence Against the Vaudois Christians Existing Since Paul: Historical Records: The earliest historical records of the Waldensians date back to the 12th century, with no evidence linking them to the apostolic age or to Paul. Historical documents, including those from the Roman Catholic Church and various secular sources, place their origins in the High Middle Ages. Peter Waldo: The founder of the Waldensians, Peter Waldo, lived in the 12th century. There is no historical connection between him and the early Christian communities established by Paul. Lack of Continuity: There is no continuous historical or doctrinal line connecting the early Christian communities established by Paul to the Waldensians. The early Christian Church went through many transformations and schisms, and the Waldensians represent one of the later reform movements rather than a direct continuation of Paul's ministry. Evidence For the Claim (Though Limited and Largely Disputed): Waldensian Claims: Some Waldensians have historically claimed that their beliefs and practices are a continuation of the original apostolic teachings. They argue that they preserved a purer form of Christianity that predated the corruption they perceived in the Roman Catholic Church. Reformation Era Writings: During the Protestant Reformation, some reformers and Waldensian leaders asserted that their movement was a continuation of an ancient and unbroken line of true Christian believers. These claims were part of a broader effort to legitimize their break from the Catholic Church by asserting historical continuity. Oral Traditions: Some oral traditions within the Waldensian community suggest a lineage dating back to early Christianity. However, these traditions are not substantiated by historical evidence and are often seen as part of the group's identity and self-understanding rather than factual history. In conclusion, the claim that Vaudois Christians have existed since the time of Paul lacks substantial historical evidence. The consensus among historians is that the Waldensian movement began in the 12th century with Peter Waldo and that their claims of ancient origins are more ideological than factual. Years ago when Nathan first mentioned the Waldos I read up on them and came to the same conclusion. Unfortunately Nathan has very poor cognitive skills (he is not the only christian with this disability) accompanied by poor comprehension skills and mixed with lots of wishful thinking. The result is the usual christian mythology on steroids. It's a bit like making soup. Whatever flavour soup you want you start with an onion and keep adding this and that till you have the required taste. If the result makes you happy then you are the world champion soup maker untill someone else knocks you off your perch.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 13:56:29 GMT -5
For crying out loud in a bucket, how many times does one need to refute this nonsense? The Vaudois Christians, also known as the Waldensians, are a Christian movement that emerged in the 12th century. They were founded by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant from Lyon, France, who renounced his wealth and began preaching a life of poverty and adherence to the Gospels. Evidence Against the Vaudois Christians Existing Since Paul: Historical Records: The earliest historical records of the Waldensians date back to the 12th century, with no evidence linking them to the apostolic age or to Paul. Historical documents, including those from the Roman Catholic Church and various secular sources, place their origins in the High Middle Ages. Peter Waldo: The founder of the Waldensians, Peter Waldo, lived in the 12th century. There is no historical connection between him and the early Christian communities established by Paul. Lack of Continuity: There is no continuous historical or doctrinal line connecting the early Christian communities established by Paul to the Waldensians. The early Christian Church went through many transformations and schisms, and the Waldensians represent one of the later reform movements rather than a direct continuation of Paul's ministry. Evidence For the Claim (Though Limited and Largely Disputed): Waldensian Claims: Some Waldensians have historically claimed that their beliefs and practices are a continuation of the original apostolic teachings. They argue that they preserved a purer form of Christianity that predated the corruption they perceived in the Roman Catholic Church. Reformation Era Writings: During the Protestant Reformation, some reformers and Waldensian leaders asserted that their movement was a continuation of an ancient and unbroken line of true Christian believers. These claims were part of a broader effort to legitimize their break from the Catholic Church by asserting historical continuity. Oral Traditions: Some oral traditions within the Waldensian community suggest a lineage dating back to early Christianity. However, these traditions are not substantiated by historical evidence and are often seen as part of the group's identity and self-understanding rather than factual history. In conclusion, the claim that Vaudois Christians have existed since the time of Paul lacks substantial historical evidence. The consensus among historians is that the Waldensian movement began in the 12th century with Peter Waldo and that their claims of ancient origins are more ideological than factual. Years ago when Nathan first mentioned the Waldos I read up on them and came to the same conclusion. Unfortunately Nathan has very poor cognitive skills (he is not the only christian with this disability) accompanied by poor comprehension skills and mixed with lots of wishful thinking. The result is the usual christian mythology on steroids. It's a bit like making soup. Whatever flavour soup you want you start with an onion and keep adding this and that till you have the required taste. If the result makes you happy then you are the world champion soup maker untill someone else knocks you off your perch. 🤣😱🥱
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Post by Mary on Jul 10, 2024 15:19:30 GMT -5
So they are pastors not apostles/ evangelists. Jesus would roll over in his grave (so to speak) at some church started by Willian Irvine 125 years ago claiming to be the only true church. We are seeing the fruits of it and it's not good. It's hilarious some of the answers you come up with. You forget we were born and raised in the group. The apostles/workers are Preachers, teachers, Evangelists, pastors, ministers, missionaries, some workers have met gifts than others! To be apostles you must learn and know how to preach/teach and relay the message so the listeners can understand Salvation comes only through Jesus; it is Jesus who saves! After they have many converts they must learn to feed them and protect them as pastors! they appoint church elders the responsibilities to feed and cares for the lambs and sheep of God. Yes, many of you born and raise but don’t fully the understand the miracles of how it works. The workers are all pastors, all performing the same role. The Bible says, some are apostles, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers but the workers all perform the same roles. Another sign they are not the New Testament Church. Churches have their pastors, their missionaries, their evangelists, different people for different roles.
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Post by Mary on Jul 10, 2024 15:25:53 GMT -5
Mad props to you for doing much more research into them and having a more solid mountain of evidence than I did! What is funny is that the claims made by the Vaudois/Waldensians about being "the original" are the same made by the 2x2s...and the Catholics...and all 3 groups couldn't be more wrong. Ahhh, humans! Both of you haven’t done enough of your research on the Vaudois and Waldenses! You have many pieces of the puzzle but NOT seeing the complete picture of it. You two came up with all kinds of half truth conclusion of things! It took me more than 40 years to study about the Vaudois and those like them for 2000 years. I have a lot of their teachings, belief, testimonies and historical documents saved up. I have historical document of the Vaudois/Waldenses from 67-1800 A.D. and to the time of the Faith Mission 2x2 in 1895 and 2x2 workers in 1898-2024. Just as you do not have any 2x2 workers lists before 1900 those who claim the Waldensians or similar have no proof they existed before Peter Waldo. It's just wishful thinking.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 15:50:41 GMT -5
The apostles/workers are Preachers, teachers, Evangelists, pastors, ministers, missionaries, some workers have met gifts than others! To be apostles you must learn and know how to preach/teach and relay the message so the listeners can understand Salvation comes only through Jesus; it is Jesus who saves! After they have many converts they must learn to feed them and protect them as pastors! they appoint church elders the responsibilities to feed and cares for the lambs and sheep of God. Yes, many of you born and raise but don’t fully the understand the miracles of how it works. The workers are all pastors, all performing the same role. The Bible says, some are apostles, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers but the workers all perform the same roles. Another sign they are not the New Testament Church. Churches have their pastors, their missionaries, their evangelists, different people for different roles. You were 2x2 for many years and still don’t fully understanding the true inner amazing/miracles working of the 2x2 ministry workers. Therefore, you can’t see things or understand the great wonders of Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and the marvelous of the friends ministry to the world.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 16:01:08 GMT -5
Both of you haven’t done enough of your research on the Vaudois and Waldenses! You have many pieces of the puzzle but NOT seeing the complete picture of it. You two came up with all kinds of half truth conclusion of things! It took me more than 40 years to study about the Vaudois and those like them for 2000 years. I have a lot of their teachings, belief, testimonies and historical documents saved up. I have historical document of the Vaudois/Waldenses from 67-1800 A.D. and to the time of the Faith Mission 2x2 in 1895 and 2x2 workers in 1898-2024. Just as you do not have any 2x2 workers lists before 1900 those who claim the Waldensians or similar have no proof they existed before Peter Waldo. It's just wishful thinking. I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 10, 2024 16:04:27 GMT -5
Just as you do not have any 2x2 workers lists before 1900 those who claim the Waldensians or similar have no proof they existed before Peter Waldo. It's just wishful thinking. I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers. The 2x2's operated differently to the Faith Mission. Their purpose or aim was to encourage people to go to the church of their faith whatever that may be. They did not gather people to them to form a church. Irvine did that once he realized there was money to be made.
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Post by Mary on Jul 10, 2024 16:54:39 GMT -5
Just as you do not have any 2x2 workers lists before 1900 those who claim the Waldensians or similar have no proof they existed before Peter Waldo. It's just wishful thinking. I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers. So you can't show any workers list before Irvine started the 2x2s, only the Faith Missions. We know Irvine broke away from the Faith Mission and started his own church. You can't use another organization to prove your own. Of course every church can trace it's roots back to their previous church even as far back as Jesus, even the Catholics can do that. Breaking away from their previous church is how churches are formed, the 2x2s were no different.
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Post by Mary on Jul 10, 2024 17:01:49 GMT -5
The workers are all pastors, all performing the same role. The Bible says, some are apostles, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers but the workers all perform the same roles. Another sign they are not the New Testament Church. Churches have their pastors, their missionaries, their evangelists, different people for different roles. You were 2x2 for many years and still don’t fully understanding the true inner amazing/miracles working of the 2x2 ministry workers. Therefore, you can’t see things or understand the great wonders of Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and the marvelous of the friends ministry to the world. There is nothing marvelous or miraculous about it. It's men's works, works do not save. The fruit of workers of iniquity has been exposed for the world to see.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2024 18:59:46 GMT -5
To be apostles you must learn and know how to preach/teach and relay the message so the listeners can understand Salvation comes only through Jesus; it is Jesus who saves! The messengers also need to understand that Salvation comes only through Jesus; it is Jesus who saves!
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2024 19:09:05 GMT -5
Just as you do not have any 2x2 workers lists before 1900 those who claim the Waldensians or similar have no proof they existed before Peter Waldo. It's just wishful thinking. I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers. The Faith Mission was founded in 1886. My forebears came to New Zealand in 1842 and were faithful Christian people. What 2x2 church should they have joined?
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 19:31:29 GMT -5
I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers. The 2x2's operated differently to the Faith Mission. Their purpose or aim was to encourage people to go to the church of their faith whatever that may be. They did not gather people to them to form a church. Irvine did that once he realized there was money to be made. The early days 2x2s workers had a better understanding and God’s revelation than the Faith Mission group did! The 2x2 Matthew 10 Faith Mission group wanted William Irvine’s Faith Mission converts to go join the churches of their choice or become the Faith Mission group! William Irvine’s converts did NOT to go back the Protestant churches they came out of or Join the Faith Mission group because they didn’t baptize their converts or partake the Sunday/Christ’s Passover emblems in their services! The Faith Mission practiced Matthew 10, going in pairs in Faith God will provide their needs like Jesus had taught his apostles were God the Father plans how people would receive Salvation. Many of William ‘s converts went preaching on their own using the Faith Mission 2x2 going in Faith apostolic/workers patterns like Jesus sent out His apostles! It seemed they had the Godhead approval and gave the early days workers revelation to set up the Sunday morning worship of the Godhead= Father is God, Jesus is God like unto the Father and the Holy Spirit to commemorate the life, death and resurrection, to give thanks, adoration, praises to the Triune God.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 19:34:04 GMT -5
You were 2x2 for many years and still don’t fully understanding the true inner amazing/miracles working of the 2x2 ministry workers. Therefore, you can’t see things or understand the great wonders of Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and the marvelous of the friends ministry to the world. There is nothing marvelous or miraculous about it. It's men's works, works do not save. The fruit of workers of iniquity has been exposed for the world to see. You will NEVER get it with your half-baked understanding of God the Father and Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and the mystery of the fellowship of the Triune God.
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 19:45:38 GMT -5
I showed on TMB the 2x2 workers list before 1898 were the Faith Mission.., William Irvine and 4 Faith mission workers became 2x2 workers. The Faith Mission was founded in 1886. My forebears came to New Zealand in 1842 and were faithful Christian people. What 2x2 church should they have joined? They had to have Faith like Abraham…. It ‘s there and will come… look! You and perhaps your parents received it. In the book of Acts 1: 8-10 it was the Will of God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit that Jesus Truth and Way starting in the shores Galilee and it will spread to Jude’s, Samaria, Turkey, Rome, UK, England, Europe, France, Ireland, Scotland, Africa, United States, Russia, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, China, Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, Guam 😁 and so on… It has taken Jesus 2x2 Itinerant ministry almost 2000 years! To reach to many of these nations. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and witnessed to all nations then shall come the end of the Gentiles era. We are very close to the end of the Gentiles era! The gospel invitation of the marriage supper of the Lamb has been given to many Gentiles to enter, nearly 2000 years already! The time of given out the invitation will come to a closed soon. Christ will come back and rule and reign with those whom had accepted the invitation for 1000 years. After 1000 yrs are over there will be a celebration 🎉 of the marriage of the Lamb/Jesus and with the Bride/God’s people Read Rev. 19. After the marriage celebration then God, Christ and his Redeemed people will live in the heaven and earth in happiness forever Read Rev. 21-22.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2024 20:21:39 GMT -5
The Faith Mission was founded in 1886. My forebears came to New Zealand in 1842 and were faithful Christian people. What 2x2 church should they have joined? They had to have Faith like Abraham…. It ‘s there and will come… look! You and perhaps your parents received it. In the book of Acts 1: 8-10 it was the Will of God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit that Jesus Truth and Way starting in the shores Galilee and it will spread to Jude’s, Samaria, Turkey, Rome, UK, England, Europe, France, Ireland, Scotland, Africa, United States, Russia, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, China, Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, Guam 😁 and so on… It has taken Jesus 2x2 Itinerant ministry almost 2000 years! To reach to many of these nations. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and witnessed to all nations then shall come the end of the Gentiles era. We are very close to the end of the Gentiles era! The gospel invitation of the marriage supper of the Lamb has been given to many Gentiles to enter, nearly 2000 years already! The time of given out the invitation will come to a closed soon. Christ will come back and rule and reign with those whom had accepted the invitation for 1000 years. After 1000 yrs are over there will be a celebration 🎉 of the marriage of the Lamb/Jesus and with the Bride/God’s people Read Rev. 19. After the marriage celebration then God, Christ and his Redeemed people will live in the heaven and earth in happiness forever Read Rev. 21-22. My forebears heard the gospel in New Zealand long before the Faith Mission was established.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 10, 2024 20:44:50 GMT -5
For crying out loud in a bucket, how many times does one need to refute this nonsense? The Vaudois Christians, also known as the Waldensians, are a Christian movement that emerged in the 12th century. They were founded by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant from Lyon, France, who renounced his wealth and began preaching a life of poverty and adherence to the Gospels. Evidence Against the Vaudois Christians Existing Since Paul: Historical Records: The earliest historical records of the Waldensians date back to the 12th century, with no evidence linking them to the apostolic age or to Paul. Historical documents, including those from the Roman Catholic Church and various secular sources, place their origins in the High Middle Ages. Peter Waldo: The founder of the Waldensians, Peter Waldo, lived in the 12th century. There is no historical connection between him and the early Christian communities established by Paul. Lack of Continuity: There is no continuous historical or doctrinal line connecting the early Christian communities established by Paul to the Waldensians. The early Christian Church went through many transformations and schisms, and the Waldensians represent one of the later reform movements rather than a direct continuation of Paul's ministry. Evidence For the Claim (Though Limited and Largely Disputed): Waldensian Claims: Some Waldensians have historically claimed that their beliefs and practices are a continuation of the original apostolic teachings. They argue that they preserved a purer form of Christianity that predated the corruption they perceived in the Roman Catholic Church. Reformation Era Writings: During the Protestant Reformation, some reformers and Waldensian leaders asserted that their movement was a continuation of an ancient and unbroken line of true Christian believers. These claims were part of a broader effort to legitimize their break from the Catholic Church by asserting historical continuity. Oral Traditions: Some oral traditions within the Waldensian community suggest a lineage dating back to early Christianity. However, these traditions are not substantiated by historical evidence and are often seen as part of the group's identity and self-understanding rather than factual history. In conclusion, the claim that Vaudois Christians have existed since the time of Paul lacks substantial historical evidence. The consensus among historians is that the Waldensian movement began in the 12th century with Peter Waldo and that their claims of ancient origins are more ideological than factual. Mad props to you for doing much more research into them and having a more solid mountain of evidence than I did! What is funny is that the claims made by the Vaudois/Waldensians about being "the original" are the same made by the 2x2s...and the Catholics...and all 3 groups couldn't be more wrong. Ahhh, humans! This claim is basically the "Gospel according to Nathan".
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 21:22:55 GMT -5
They had to have Faith like Abraham…. It ‘s there and will come… look! You and perhaps your parents received it. In the book of Acts 1: 8-10 it was the Will of God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit that Jesus Truth and Way starting in the shores Galilee and it will spread to Jude’s, Samaria, Turkey, Rome, UK, England, Europe, France, Ireland, Scotland, Africa, United States, Russia, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, China, Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, Guam 😁 and so on… It has taken Jesus 2x2 Itinerant ministry almost 2000 years! To reach to many of these nations. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and witnessed to all nations then shall come the end of the Gentiles era. We are very close to the end of the Gentiles era! The gospel invitation of the marriage supper of the Lamb has been given to many Gentiles to enter, nearly 2000 years already! The time of given out the invitation will come to a closed soon. Christ will come back and rule and reign with those whom had accepted the invitation for 1000 years. After 1000 yrs are over there will be a celebration 🎉 of the marriage of the Lamb/Jesus and with the Bride/God’s people Read Rev. 19. After the marriage celebration then God, Christ and his Redeemed people will live in the heaven and earth in happiness forever Read Rev. 21-22. My forebears heard the gospel in New Zealand long before the Faith Mission was established. Which denomination? Did they hear it from.
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Post by fixit on Jul 10, 2024 22:11:47 GMT -5
My forebears heard the gospel in New Zealand long before the Faith Mission was established. Which denomination? Did they hear it from. Who cares? Psalm 19:1 The heavens are telling the glory of God, and the firmament proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; 4 yet their voice goes out through all the earth and their words to the end of the world.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 10, 2024 22:43:06 GMT -5
Which denomination? Did they hear it from. Who cares? Psalm 19:1 The heavens are telling the glory of God, and the firmament proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; 4 yet their voice goes out through all the earth and their words to the end of the world. Then Why? are you ashamed of the church they were apart of?
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Post by chuck on Jul 10, 2024 23:54:29 GMT -5
I have stayed in the homes of friends many times. Does that make me an apostle? Did you give up all of your Possesion like Jesus and the apostles to follow Jesus as an itinerant preacher without owing a home for yourself. If you haven’t done that then you are NOT an apostle. It’s nothing wrong for you to stay in the friends homes as a visitor. That's not what "give up all" means. It means to set aside all your selfish agendas, which in this case would be your selfish religous agenda of going to this utopian place called heaven that has wildly been misconstrued as a place somewhere one day after you die...... Undestand it in original context not a western religous context.
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Post by fixit on Jul 11, 2024 0:54:44 GMT -5
Who cares? Psalm 19:1 The heavens are telling the glory of God, and the firmament proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; 4 yet their voice goes out through all the earth and their words to the end of the world. Then Why? are you ashamed of the church they were apart of? Where did you get the idea that I was ashamed of a church?
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Post by Dan on Jul 11, 2024 1:14:24 GMT -5
Logically, any itinerant preacher traveling from place to place and house to house couldn't very well drag a spouse along. Even if a married couple both preached, any children would need a permanent place to attend school and all. So the practicality of being single with no distractions would make sense. Considering all the hardships that Paul experienced, its no wonder he said that it was better to remain single.
In that case shouldn't Paul have had it easier than some of the others?
Paul got a lot more done than any other apostle, he was more mobile & less cumbersome. When ship wrecked, he didn't need to worry about a wife and kids, when imprisoned his wife would have been on her own, etc. When Peter went to jail, who took care of his wife, what happened to her after Peter was killed? Paul didn't have it easier, he was just more efficient and less distracted by not having the responsibility of a family. Most of the apostles didn't write any epistles, probably too busy playing with their kids or servicing their wives. Paul didn't burn with passion or fleshly lust, spiritual passion dominated his time and energy. That made him more productive and a useful vessel for God.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 11, 2024 1:15:09 GMT -5
Then Why? are you ashamed of the church they were apart of? Where did you get the idea that I was ashamed of a church? Then tell us, which church did they hear the gospel from?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 11, 2024 1:17:10 GMT -5
In that case shouldn't Paul have had it easier than some of the others?
Paul got a lot more done than any other apostle, he was more mobile & less cumbersome. When ship wrecked, he didn't need to worry about a wife and kids, when imprisoned his wife would have been on her own, etc. When Peter went to jail, who took care of his wife, what happened to her after Peter was killed? Paul didn't have it easier, he was just more efficient and less distracted by not having the responsibility of a family. Most of the apostles didn't write any epistles, probably too busy playing with their kids or servicing their wives. Paul didn't burn with passion or fleshly lust, spiritual passion dominated his time and energy. That made him more productive and a useful vessel for God.
www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350340094/church-believed-girl-would-rise-diabetes-death-court-hearsHere's another case of religious idiots causing the death of an innocent child. You have a lot to be proud of Dan. Not.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Jul 11, 2024 1:19:56 GMT -5
In that case shouldn't Paul have had it easier than some of the others?
Paul got a lot more done than any other apostle, he was more mobile & less cumbersome. When ship wrecked, he didn't need to worry about a wife and kids, when imprisoned his wife would have been on her own, etc.
When Peter went to jail, who took care of his wife, what happened to her after Peter was killed? Paul didn't have it easier, he was just more efficient and less distracted by not having the responsibility of a family. Most of the apostles didn't write any epistles, probably too busy playing with their kids or servicing their wives.
Paul didn't burn with passion or fleshly lust, spiritual passion dominated his time and energy. That made him more productive and a useful vessel for God.
Dan, how do you understand like the married workers and single workers feel about these things? It is from your own observation from what you read in the scriptures? Very good observation I say.👍
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