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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2014 11:49:57 GMT -5
Clearday wholesome appearance is very very clearly a rubber issue ... When I see the 2x2 appearence ... it DOES NOT ring 'wholesome' to me. It rings hypocrisy and self-righteousness. I also know that this is not true for everyone 'with the appearance' but the appearance in itself doesn't not ring 'wholesome' for the vast majority of people in our society at least -- and I know that even in Canada it rings somewhat false amongst many people - but it does raise eyebrows. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was an attempt to express individuality but I know it is just a cheaper attempt to express conformity with 2x2 doctrine. I know that it is a taught and enforced 'appearance' that although membership claim is their own wish, most exes leave it behind quite quickly. Here is a link to a before and after pix of my wife. Do a 'wholesome' judgement on this!! As I mentioned, wholesomeness is subjective so a "judgement" isn't possible, it's only what people read into the meaning of appearances and varies between times and cultures. In the 2104 and in our culture, "Before" would be generally viewed as extreme appearance. "After" would be generally viewed as wholesome appearance. In 1914, the view might have been the opposite. In Saudi Arabia, both would probably be considered extreme and unwholesome. Either way, outward appearances don't speak to the whole person and I think most people understand that. Just because someone looks wholesome, ie healthy and balanced, it doesn't guarantee that they are, hence the impossibility of a judgement. Ted Bundy was a good example of that wasn't he. He was said to look like the wholesome, good looking 'boy next door' and look at what was under that appearance!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:53:02 GMT -5
As I mentioned, wholesomeness is subjective so a "judgement" isn't possible, it's only what people read into the meaning of appearances and varies between times and cultures. In the 2104 and in our culture, "Before" would be generally viewed as extreme appearance. "After" would be generally viewed as wholesome appearance. In 1914, the view might have been the opposite. In Saudi Arabia, both would probably be considered extreme and unwholesome. Either way, outward appearances don't speak to the whole person and I think most people understand that. Just because someone looks wholesome, ie healthy and balanced, it doesn't guarantee that they are, hence the impossibility of a judgement. Ted Bundy was a good example of that wasn't he. He was said to look like the wholesome, good looking 'boy next door' and look at what was under that appearance! Definitely. It is an old and popular saying that "you can't judge a book by its cover."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 14:36:58 GMT -5
Ted Bundy was a good example of that wasn't he. He was said to look like the wholesome, good looking 'boy next door' and look at what was under that appearance! Definitely. It is an old and popular saying that "you can't judge a book by its cover." Yet judging by appearance is one of the most widely understod trademarks of 2x2ism in many ways --- And it is encouraged in its membership by the very top of the organization.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 7, 2014 15:58:07 GMT -5
Definitely. It is an old and popular saying that "you can't judge a book by its cover." Yet judging by appearance is one of the most widely understod trademarks of 2x2ism in many ways --- And it is encouraged in its membership by the very top of the organization. People are rather prideful of recognizing friends on the street when they are thousands of miles from home. Ironically, the dowdier the woman looks the more apt one is to properly identify her as "professing".
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 7, 2014 16:16:50 GMT -5
I grew up during the 60's and 70's in the Northeast US hearing "If you can't do it in a skirt, don't do it at all." In spite of this, women and girls wore warm pants for ice skating get-togethers among the Friends. I'm not aware of the workers ever bothering anyone for it. More recently, I heard from a reliable source that last year a sister worker spoke from the platform (Milford? Altamont?) about how women should wear whatever is appropriate for the activity at hand, even if that means wearing pants (my paraphrase). Did anyone hear this in person? That would be cool if a sister worker said that. I was at one of those conventions and didn't hear it. I do know an older sister gave a talk in the dorms about dress. She said that as long as women's bathrooms are designated by a picture of a skirted woman, professing females are supposed to continue to wear skirts. She also said that it's up to woman and girls to dress in a way that keeps the brother workers on the straight and narrow.Maybe this talk was intended to get everyone back on track after what the other worker said? That is an old excuse used by some men to make the woman feel that she is the guilty one and she is the responsible one for the actions of men.
Obviously that poor sister worker must have lapped it up with all the other controlling doctrine taught by the "brother" workers.
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Post by findingtruth on Jul 8, 2014 0:12:03 GMT -5
Yet judging by appearance is one of the most widely understod trademarks of 2x2ism in many ways --- And it is encouraged in its membership by the very top of the organization. People are rather prideful of recognizing friends on the street when they are thousands of miles from home. Ironically, the dowdier the woman looks the more apt one is to properly identify her as "professing". EXACTLY!! Obviously has to be outward as you surely couldn't be certain based on the "spirit" of an individual. Of course there are other religions outside of the 2x2 religion that appear similar (Mennonites, apostolic etc). I was once told that the way to determine if they were part of the 2x2 religion, after determining that the outward appearance fit the bill was to ask them if they knew who George Walker was.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 8, 2014 0:44:56 GMT -5
People are rather prideful of recognizing friends on the street when they are thousands of miles from home. Ironically, the dowdier the woman looks the more apt one is to properly identify her as "professing". EXACTLY!! Obviously has to be outward as you surely couldn't be certain based on the "spirit" of an individual. Of course there are other religions outside of the 2x2 religion that appear similar (Mennonites, apostolic etc). I was once told that the way to determine if they were part of the 2x2 religion, after determining that the outward appearance fit the bill was to ask them if they knew who George Walker was. And when one stranger was asked that question, she gruffly replied, "No, we're Mennonites."
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Post by mdm on Jul 8, 2014 4:10:02 GMT -5
I find the underlined part revolting. BW's are surely not feeble-minded creatures that have to be "kept on the straight and narrow" by making sure there is nothing to tempt them. Surely they have personal conviction and the help of the Holy Spirit to guide and strengthen??? Besides, if someone doesn't have the gift of celibacy, they should follow Paul's advice and get married, not blame their problems on women and how they dress. A senior worker recently commented jokingly to our friends that he has trouble keeping his eyes off of women's legs (revealed by short skirts) and that they will drive him crazy. I don't see a married man joking like this. Sexual repression with it's basis in religion is interesting. I have read many reports of men who are in the justice system that have raped and killed women and their background was a family that taught stringent rules and information on sexuality. They get such a warped and perverted view on sexuality that they feel guilty about even their thoughts if they are filled with attraction to a woman. Enjoying looking at the body of the sex that attracts you is not wrong. In the general society just because a man likes the looks of a woman, it doesn't mean that they will need to follow through on that. The male workers shouldn't be any different. However, keeping them celibate is a crazy idea and I can see how it would be hard for them. Human nature is perverse in that we want what we can't have. It makes no sense to me that priests and workers can't marry and have a normal life and still be just as 'spiritually pure' as someone that is celibate. One more stupid rule Paul decided upon that has caused no end of grief. I am glad he did allow them to get married at a 'last resort' if they were so weak. How many try to uphold that standard and feel that getting married would be a show of weakness and unrighteousness? Control over sexual urges is a whole different thing from sexual repression. One is normal the other leads to some very horrific activities. I can't really blame Paul here. I think it's a Catholic and 2x2 (current - not from its inception) interpretation. Eastern Orthodox priests marry, and of course Protestant preachers marry. In fact, one can't even be a Protestant preacher without being married! The worker my husband and I professed through had a married couple for his first companions. He called those "the grand old times." When my husband and I professed in 1997, this worker expressed hope that we would go into the work. Apparently, he hadn't gotten the memo that married workers are not allowed any more!
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Post by mdm on Jul 8, 2014 4:19:45 GMT -5
I find the underlined part revolting. BW's are surely not feeble-minded creatures that have to be "kept on the straight and narrow" by making sure there is nothing to tempt them. Surely they have personal conviction and the help of the Holy Spirit to guide and strengthen??? Besides, if someone doesn't have the gift of celibacy, they should follow Paul's advice and get married, not blame their problems on women and how they dress. A senior worker recently commented jokingly to our friends that he has trouble keeping his eyes off of women's legs (revealed by short skirts) and that they will drive him crazy. I don't see a married man joking like this. Absolutely. I find it revolting too. I wasn't actually present for the talk, but the points listed above were quoted to me at least 3 times by three different women after the fact. The last one got an earful about victim blaming and rape culture. I also mentioned that brother workers of all ages tend to have their own computers and bedrooms. They can and do look at a lot more than cleavage and short skirts. Given recent CSA events, I find it distasteful that a sister worker would promote the "what was she wearing?" attitude in regards to a worker's immorality or criminal behavior. To me, that's what the talk was all about. That was the take away message for the women I spoke with.
Have to admit that a year ago I possibly would not have found that talk revolting, because I didn't know about the underlying issues - that those who have committed immorality (even repeatedly) or CSA are allowed to remain in the ministry, while the blame is put on the woman or the child. In my conversations with several sister workers about these issues, it was obvious that they put the blame on the alleged victim, or don't even want to know about issues (doesn't concern them). The reputation of brother workers and their decisions should not be questioned, so the blame has to fall on the woman. There are sister (and brother) workers who don't see things this way, but such was my experience with sister workers I spoke to in my home.
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Post by applesandbacon on Jul 8, 2014 9:24:05 GMT -5
Absolutely. I find it revolting too. I wasn't actually present for the talk, but the points listed above were quoted to me at least 3 times by three different women after the fact. The last one got an earful about victim blaming and rape culture. I also mentioned that brother workers of all ages tend to have their own computers and bedrooms. They can and do look at a lot more than cleavage and short skirts. Given recent CSA events, I find it distasteful that a sister worker would promote the "what was she wearing?" attitude in regards to a worker's immorality or criminal behavior. To me, that's what the talk was all about. That was the take away message for the women I spoke with.
Have to admit that a year ago I possibly would not have found that talk revolting, because I didn't know about the underlying issues - that those who have committed immorality (even repeatedly) or CSA are allowed to remain in the ministry, while the blame is put on the woman or the child. In my conversations with several sister workers about these issues, it was obvious that they put the blame on the alleged victim, or don't even want to know about issues (doesn't concern them). The reputation of brother workers and their decisions should not be questioned, so the blame has to fall on the woman. There are sister (and brother) workers who don't see things this way, but such was my experience with sister workers I spoke to in my home. I have had personal experience with conflicts and disputes in the fellowship surrounding sexual, family and abuse issues (not CSA). I have observed some of the criminal cases unfolding in the Midwest, and am well aware of the emerging ones. One thing I have noticed is that the higher ranking person in any dispute will almost always be believed and exonerated, regardless of the facts, by the majority of the friends and workers. That rank could be position in the work, eldership, connections among the workers, respected ex-worker status, connections to some of the more popular professing families, and, all other things being equal, age and gender. Regardless of the outcome of a trial, custody case, or the testimony of many witnesses, the initial reaction of the friends and workers is the most lasting. When the prominent CSA cases in the US were first discussed with us, the child victims and reporters were portrayed as troublemakers, the perpetrators were portrayed as having an unfortunate lapse in judgment, and the overseers were rallied around as victims for having to deal with all of it. This continues to be the attitude of many, even after trials, convictions and jail time.
The weakest person will almost always be blamed, because they have no recourse or support system that could cause problems for the fellowship if crossed. This is further complicated by the doublespeak that is characteristic of the fellowship. Those with the most power are referred to as "servants" and "the least in the kingdom" and "humble". This is how people can reconcile victim blaming and lies, is by convincing themselves that right is wrong and wrong is right.
Forgiveness is the privilege of the victim, not the perpetrator. Among the friends and workers, however, forgiveness of even the most vile affront is the right of the perpetrator, not just eventually, but immediately. And forgiveness, as was explained to us by professing relatives, elders and workers, is defined as forgetting completely, and trusting that person completely again, even accepting that you may be victimized again.
All in all, a very unsafe environment for those who are truly Jesus' "little ones" (NOT those who affect humility through tears and Truthisms).
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Post by mdm on Jul 8, 2014 9:53:45 GMT -5
Have to admit that a year ago I possibly would not have found that talk revolting, because I didn't know about the underlying issues - that those who have committed immorality (even repeatedly) or CSA are allowed to remain in the ministry, while the blame is put on the woman or the child. In my conversations with several sister workers about these issues, it was obvious that they put the blame on the alleged victim, or don't even want to know about issues (doesn't concern them). The reputation of brother workers and their decisions should not be questioned, so the blame has to fall on the woman. There are sister (and brother) workers who don't see things this way, but such was my experience with sister workers I spoke to in my home. I have had personal experience with conflicts and disputes in the fellowship surrounding sexual, family and abuse issues (not CSA). I have observed some of the criminal cases unfolding in the Midwest, and am well aware of the emerging ones. One thing I have noticed is that the higher ranking person in any dispute will almost always be believed and exonerated, regardless of the facts, by the majority of the friends and workers. That rank could be position in the work, eldership, connections among the workers, respected ex-worker status, connections to some of the more popular professing families, and, all other things being equal, age and gender. Regardless of the outcome of a trial, custody case, or the testimony of many witnesses, the initial reaction of the friends and workers is the most lasting. When the prominent CSA cases in the US were first discussed with us, the child victims and reporters were portrayed as troublemakers, the perpetrators were portrayed as having an unfortunate lapse in judgment, and the overseers were rallied around as victims for having to deal with all of it. This continues to be the attitude of many, even after trials, convictions and jail time.
The weakest person will almost always be blamed, because they have no recourse or support system that could cause problems for the fellowship if crossed. This is further complicated by the doublespeak that is characteristic of the fellowship. Those with the most power are referred to as "servants" and "the least in the kingdom" and "humble". This is how people can reconcile victim blaming and lies, is by convincing themselves that right is wrong and wrong is right.
Forgiveness is the privilege of the victim, not the perpetrator. Among the friends and workers, however, forgiveness of even the most vile affront is the right of the perpetrator, not just eventually, but immediately. And forgiveness, as was explained to us by professing relatives, elders and workers, is defined as forgetting completely, and trusting that person completely again, even accepting that you may be victimized again.
All in all, a very unsafe environment for those who are truly Jesus' "little ones" (NOT those who affect humility through tears and Truthisms).
Sounds like you have seen a lot and can describe it very well. Some friends who have seen a lot like you (only on the West coast), have told us that the workers "always take the side of the perpetrator." Some of this became apparent as we discussed and tried to understand the case of a certain worker against whom many allegations (not CSA) are known. His reputation is being protected by senior workers, the victims who spoke up are vilified as liars and "troubled," and some other victims are afraid to come forward for fear of being disbelieved and vilified themselves. No, it's not a safe environment.
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Post by snow on Jul 8, 2014 14:28:37 GMT -5
Sexual repression with it's basis in religion is interesting. I have read many reports of men who are in the justice system that have raped and killed women and their background was a family that taught stringent rules and information on sexuality. They get such a warped and perverted view on sexuality that they feel guilty about even their thoughts if they are filled with attraction to a woman. Enjoying looking at the body of the sex that attracts you is not wrong. In the general society just because a man likes the looks of a woman, it doesn't mean that they will need to follow through on that. The male workers shouldn't be any different. However, keeping them celibate is a crazy idea and I can see how it would be hard for them. Human nature is perverse in that we want what we can't have. It makes no sense to me that priests and workers can't marry and have a normal life and still be just as 'spiritually pure' as someone that is celibate. One more stupid rule Paul decided upon that has caused no end of grief. I am glad he did allow them to get married at a 'last resort' if they were so weak. How many try to uphold that standard and feel that getting married would be a show of weakness and unrighteousness? Control over sexual urges is a whole different thing from sexual repression. One is normal the other leads to some very horrific activities. I can't really blame Paul here. I think it's a Catholic and 2x2 (current - not from its inception) interpretation. Eastern Orthodox priests marry, and of course Protestant preachers marry. In fact, one can't even be a Protestant preacher without being married! The worker my husband and I professed through had a married couple for his first companions. He called those "the grand old times." When my husband and I professed in 1997, this worker expressed hope that we would go into the work. Apparently, he hadn't gotten the memo that married workers are not allowed any more! The reason I picked on Paul was his statement that you should remain celibate and unmarried unless you were 'burning with lust'. Then you were reluctantly supposed to get married. Yes there were married workers. I remember a married set John and Anna that were in Greece. In the beginning it looked like quite a few were married. Interesting they went away from it.
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Post by snow on Jul 8, 2014 14:31:43 GMT -5
Have to admit that a year ago I possibly would not have found that talk revolting, because I didn't know about the underlying issues - that those who have committed immorality (even repeatedly) or CSA are allowed to remain in the ministry, while the blame is put on the woman or the child. In my conversations with several sister workers about these issues, it was obvious that they put the blame on the alleged victim, or don't even want to know about issues (doesn't concern them). The reputation of brother workers and their decisions should not be questioned, so the blame has to fall on the woman. There are sister (and brother) workers who don't see things this way, but such was my experience with sister workers I spoke to in my home. I have had personal experience with conflicts and disputes in the fellowship surrounding sexual, family and abuse issues (not CSA). I have observed some of the criminal cases unfolding in the Midwest, and am well aware of the emerging ones. One thing I have noticed is that the higher ranking person in any dispute will almost always be believed and exonerated, regardless of the facts, by the majority of the friends and workers. That rank could be position in the work, eldership, connections among the workers, respected ex-worker status, connections to some of the more popular professing families, and, all other things being equal, age and gender. Regardless of the outcome of a trial, custody case, or the testimony of many witnesses, the initial reaction of the friends and workers is the most lasting. When the prominent CSA cases in the US were first discussed with us, the child victims and reporters were portrayed as troublemakers, the perpetrators were portrayed as having an unfortunate lapse in judgment, and the overseers were rallied around as victims for having to deal with all of it. This continues to be the attitude of many, even after trials, convictions and jail time.
The weakest person will almost always be blamed, because they have no recourse or support system that could cause problems for the fellowship if crossed. This is further complicated by the doublespeak that is characteristic of the fellowship. Those with the most power are referred to as "servants" and "the least in the kingdom" and "humble". This is how people can reconcile victim blaming and lies, is by convincing themselves that right is wrong and wrong is right.
Forgiveness is the privilege of the victim, not the perpetrator. Among the friends and workers, however, forgiveness of even the most vile affront is the right of the perpetrator, not just eventually, but immediately. And forgiveness, as was explained to us by professing relatives, elders and workers, is defined as forgetting completely, and trusting that person completely again, even accepting that you may be victimized again.
All in all, a very unsafe environment for those who are truly Jesus' "little ones" (NOT those who affect humility through tears and Truthisms).
They sound a lot like bullies don't they.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 14:39:22 GMT -5
There is a certain logic behind believing the higher ranking person. (note I said "logic", not that it is right). The logic is that the people in the higher ranks got there because they have already convinced others of their righteousness. So they have already been vetted in the minds of most people, and considered more righteous and less likely to do wrong than those in lower ranks. It's just an automatic assumption because nobody can believe that everyone missed how despicable a person the higher ranking person really is. It's a sort of self-blinding mechanism in those kind of group dynamics.
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Post by mdm on Jul 8, 2014 15:07:29 GMT -5
There is a certain logic behind believing the higher ranking person. (note I said "logic", not that it is right). The logic is that the people in the higher ranks got there because they have already convinced others of their righteousness. So they have already been vetted in the minds of most people, and considered more righteous and less likely to do wrong than those in lower ranks. It's just an automatic assumption because nobody can believe that everyone missed how despicable a person the higher ranking person really is. It's a sort of self-blinding mechanism in those kind of group dynamics. Yes, and when we asked why those higher ranking people would not deal with the immoral and CSA offenders, the answer we heard twice was that "they are so holy that they can't even understand that something like that could happen."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 16:15:37 GMT -5
Liars seem to me to nearly always have the advantage over an honest person, for they often can and do say and spin what people usually want to hear. Remembering when a highly educated, wealthy and politically popular "2&2 elder" and convention owner entered Ylva's basement guest bedroom in his home one night crudely verbalizing what he was going to do to her. Fortunately he was not successful, when she asked him what if he had his way with her over her objections and she should bear a child? His response, "have you not heard of Dr. (now deceased) Wally Baldwin."
Later when he disovered we intended to marry and he feared his wickedness might be exposed, he went to workers, created all kinds of lies about me, resulting in highly placed workers on two continents going to Ylva's folks directing them to insist Ylva return to Sweden without marrying me. Only when they attempted to do that, did I put it all together, and Ylva truthfully told her parents all the details, and that we both knew lies were being spread about me, and I had finally figured out why. We were able to convince her parents that every thing was a lie! Then I called the original wicked promoter of the false reports telling him every detail I had discovered advising him to cease and desist or else face the consequences.
Guess what his response was? You will never guess. He began blaming Ylva to me threatening to destroy her reputation. Only when he became aware that I would end life as he knew it by physically beating him senseless and face the consequences for doing so, did he stand down, knowing I did not, (and still do not) make idle threats. Being a bully and a coward, when he found out the extent I was willing to go for the woman then the love of my life, his own perfidious activity caught up with him. Even so workers began to elevate that man! Unbelievable, no? It was for us. Now such accounts are becoming common, and still devote believers in that system defend such wickedness by willful blindness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 18:45:37 GMT -5
Liars seem to me to nearly always have the advantage over an honest person, for they often can and do say and spin what people usually want to hear. Remembering when a highly educated, wealthy and politically popular "2&2 elder" and convention owner entered Ylva's basement guest bedroom in his home one night crudely verbalizing what he was going to do to her. Fortunately he was not successful, when she asked him what if he had his way with her over her objections and she should bear a child? His response, "have you not heard of Dr. (now deceased) Wally Baldwin."
Later when he disovered we intended to marry and he feared his wickedness might be exposed, he went to workers, created all kinds of lies about me, resulting in highly placed workers on two continents going to Ylva's folks directing them to insist Ylva return to Sweden without marrying me. Only when they attempted to do that, did I put it all together, and Ylva truthfully told her parents all the details, and that we both knew lies were being spread about me, and I had finally figured out why. We were able to convince her parents that every thing was a lie! Then I called the original wicked promoter of the false reports telling him every detail I had discovered advising him to cease and desist or else face the consequences.
Guess what his response was? You will never guess. He began blaming Ylva to me threatening to destroy her reputation. Only when he became aware that I would end life as he knew it by physically beating him senseless and face the consequences for doing so, did he stand down, knowing I did not, (and still do not) make idle threats. Being a bully and a coward, when he found out the extent I was willing to go for the woman then the love of my life, his own perfidious activity caught up with him. Even so workers began to elevate that man! Unbelievable, no? It was for us. Now such accounts are becoming common, and still devote believers in that system defend such wickedness by willful blindness. but as you well know Dennis you have one in heaven who will avenge wrong doing that was done to yourself and wife such is the frailty of man and those who have caused you this pain will recieve the reward of their actions just because they are labled elder and workers don't mean a thing, just tares amongst the wheat i feel really sorry for this happening and pray to God that you can be comforted in the knowledge that God your God knows
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 21:54:24 GMT -5
Virgo, do you really expect me to think you offer true Godly advice, comfort, cousel? Really? Personally I believe you are soo brainwashed by 2&2 worker indoctrination that you would make excuse for any ungodly, unChristian act and behavior by fellow 2&2ers and some of us have begun to think most people reading here have no more respect such an attitude than myself.
A powerful worker ruling over thousands once advised me of this concept. "A guy somewhere stated 'if there is a God, let Him strike me down!' So the fellow standing by clobbered him, knocking him down. The guy demanded 'what did you do THAT for?'"
Are you capable of even getting the point? .
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Post by déjà vu on Jul 8, 2014 22:17:07 GMT -5
If you don't know GOD, don't make stupid remarks!
A young Canadian paratrooper was taking some college courses between
assignments. He had completed 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan. One of the
courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the
Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA).
One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "GOD, if you are real, then I want
you to knock me off this platform... I'll give you exactly 15 min."
The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am GOD, I'm still waiting."
It got down to the last couple of minutes when the soldier got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him clean off the platform.
The professor was out cold.
The young soldier went back to his seat and sat there, silently.
The other students were shocked and stunned, and sat there looking on in silence.
The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the soldier and asked, "What in the world is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"
The young soldier stood up and calmly replied, "GOD was too busy today protecting soldiers, who are protecting your right to say stupid sh- and act like an idiot. So He sent me."
The classroom erupted in cheers!
THIS IS GOOD
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 22:28:15 GMT -5
Virgo, do you really expect me to think you offer true Godly advice, comfort, cousel? Really? Personally I believe you are soo brainwashed by 2&2 worker indoctrination that you would make excuse for any ungodly, unChristian act and behavior by fellow 2&2ers and some of us have begun to think most people reading here have no more respect such an attitude than myself.
A powerful worker ruling over thousands once advised me of this concept. "A guy somewhere stated 'if there is a God, let Him strike me down!' So the fellow standing by clobbered him, knocking him down. The guy demanded 'what did you do THAT for?'"
Are you capable of even getting the point?. now you are showing bitterness :'(pity one day you will find out that what i said was genuine and that will be that day to late, but even now after what you have posted i don't change a dot of what i posted hope some day you will find forgiveness in your heart
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 8, 2014 23:12:11 GMT -5
If you don't know GOD, don't make stupid remarks! A young Canadian paratrooper was taking some college courses between assignments. He had completed 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA). One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform... I'll give you exactly 15 min." The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am GOD, I'm still waiting." It got down to the last couple of minutes when the soldier got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him clean off the platform. The professor was out cold. The young soldier went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned, and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the soldier and asked, "What in the world is the matter with you? Why did you do that?" The young soldier stood up and calmly replied, "GOD was too busy today protecting soldiers, who are protecting your right to say stupid sh- and act like an idiot. So He sent me." The classroom erupted in cheers! THIS IS GOOD That is stupid.
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Post by mdm on Jul 9, 2014 3:54:46 GMT -5
Virgo, do you really expect me to think you offer true Godly advice, comfort, cousel? Really? Personally I believe you are soo brainwashed by 2&2 worker indoctrination that you would make excuse for any ungodly, unChristian act and behavior by fellow 2&2ers and some of us have begun to think most people reading here have no more respect such an attitude than myself.
A powerful worker ruling over thousands once advised me of this concept. "A guy somewhere stated 'if there is a God, let Him strike me down!' So the fellow standing by clobbered him, knocking him down. The guy demanded 'what did you do THAT for?'"
Are you capable of even getting the point?. now you are showing bitterness :'(pity one day you will find out that what i said was genuine and that will be that day to late, but even now after what you have posted i don't change a dot of what i posted hope some day you will find forgiveness in your heart Virgo, I believe what you said was genuine, from the heart. Here is the problem: those who are good and upright, when aware of wrongs committed by those in places of power, do not speak up and openly plead for justice and the downtrodden, they do not reprove/expose evil, but just preach forgiveness, acceptance of evil, and trusting in eternal justice. This is the doctrine that allows evil to continue in the church. Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed.Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.When this is allowed and promoted as the right doctrine in the church, injustices like what happened to Dennis could be rectified and future ones even minimized. I am not saying that you personally wouldn't openly speak up for what is right, but I know that most people wouldn't and don't.
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Post by Gene on Jul 9, 2014 5:30:04 GMT -5
Virgo, do you really expect me to think you offer true Godly advice, comfort, cousel? Really? Personally I believe you are soo brainwashed by 2&2 worker indoctrination that you would make excuse for any ungodly, unChristian act and behavior by fellow 2&2ers and some of us have begun to think most people reading here have no more respect such an attitude than myself.
A powerful worker ruling over thousands once advised me of this concept. "A guy somewhere stated 'if there is a God, let Him strike me down!' So the fellow standing by clobbered him, knocking him down. The guy demanded 'what did you do THAT for?'"
Are you capable of even getting the point?. Wow! Wasn't expecting that response, given that Virgo was expressing solidarity with you on the issue! You might go back and read Virgo's post again. Virgo wrote:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 8:38:26 GMT -5
Virgo, Gene, you are both right and I was wrong, though Maja correctly explained my state of mind. I am sorry I ever posted what I did.. No excuse for it.
Just now, crippled, disabled, unable to help in our situation, emotionally overwrought is no time to be attempting to comprehend the motives of anyone's comments. Again I am sorry for my unkind and likely untrue words and thinking.
The present situation with Katie often sad and weeping, has brought back buried memories. Unjust and unfair of me to lash out at anyone here, again I am sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:16:15 GMT -5
Virgo, Gene, you are both right and I was wrong, though Maja correctly explained my state of mind. I am sorry I ever posted what I did.. No excuse for it.
Just now, crippled, disabled, unable to help in our situation, emotionally overwrought is no time to be attempting to comprehend the motives of anyone's comments. Again I am sorry for my unkind and likely untrue words and thinking.
The present situation with Katie often sad and weeping, has brought back buried memories. Unjust and unfair of me to lash out at anyone here, again I am sorry. you and i know Dennis that we haven't always had a congeneal relationship but i am thankful that we have God who knows our infirmities and can draw together the most of unlikely charaters in spirit i have never disliked you but on the contry the opposite, and have often prayed that my attitude would be softer in my communication and feeling with one in your possition as far as the fellowship goes and the hurt that has been caused i do pray that God will give you the needed strength and grace to just hang in there and look forward to the day of His coming Cheers Alan
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:20:43 GMT -5
now you are showing bitterness :'(pity one day you will find out that what i said was genuine and that will be that day to late, but even now after what you have posted i don't change a dot of what i posted hope some day you will find forgiveness in your heart Virgo, I believe what you said was genuine, from the heart. Here is the problem: those who are good and upright, when aware of wrongs committed by those in places of power, do not speak up and openly plead for justice and the downtrodden, they do not reprove/expose evil, but just preach forgiveness, acceptance of evil, and trusting in eternal justice. This is the doctrine that allows evil to continue in the church. Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed.Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.When this is allowed and promoted as the right doctrine in the church, injustices like what happened to Dennis could be rectified and future ones even minimized. I am not saying that you personally wouldn't openly speak up for what is right, but I know that most people wouldn't and don't. the problem is with that is that is what God is wanting, to pray to Him to set things right, to trust in His judgements to which Jesus did and spoke of such, these need to be done in love otherwise they are contry to God
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 9, 2014 18:32:11 GMT -5
Virgo, Gene, you are both right and I was wrong, though Maja correctly explained my state of mind. I am sorry I ever posted what I did.. No excuse for it.
Just now, crippled, disabled, unable to help in our situation, emotionally overwrought is no time to be attempting to comprehend the motives of anyone's comments. Again I am sorry for my unkind and likely untrue words and thinking.
The present situation with Katie often sad and weeping, has brought back buried memories. Unjust and unfair of me to lash out at anyone here, again I am sorry. Dennis, you have been through so many disturbing problems.
Have you considered asking your doctor for some medicine for whatever, -anxiety, depression?
Until you take some medicines you have no idea how much they help. For those that think they don't need medicine just remember they DON'T change your brain, they just restore it to work more like it is suppose to work in the first place.
Hope you accept this as a concern for your health by a nurse & isn't meant to be offensive in any way.
(Personally, I am not sure how well I could function without an anti-depression med. and I don't want to find out!)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:43:36 GMT -5
DMG, more than likely you are correct also. Just now in the heart of Texas, and in this situation, there is little opportunity for such medical work up and treatment. No, others have no fear of losing my friendship unless they chose to end it, and certainly not you.
My cousin Brian Jacobsen and his son are giving up a large portion of their summer vacation to fly down tomorrow and drive the much smaller truck home for us. He is my closest relative, and best friend at this stage of my life. He and his wife, Connie are real gems in life.
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