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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 7:28:33 GMT -5
Every day many Boards Worker friends and ex,TMB ,Sites,etc are being followed. For the evidence reqired for Gov't Commission into CSA. Are you saying that the government will use unverified postings by unknown people as a source of its evidence?You seem to have a problem when questioned about the possible wrong use of a term as if that is somehow supporting one side or the other. Don't you think, in the midst of the high emotions, that some people should be actually looking at the facts of the case rather than possibly riding the crest of emotions to a false conclusion?I have never heard the term 'journo'. Does it have a special meaning? At first I thought it was a way to save typing journalist and saving 4 key-strokes but after looking at the the various uses in this thread it does really fit the description of a journalist. |
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Post by magpie on Apr 8, 2014 7:55:33 GMT -5
TO INVESTIGATION IT IS CALLED FOLLOWING ATTITUDE AND THEME.HELPS TO UNDERSTAND THE KNOWN "VERIFIEDS" PRESENT, IN HAND , AND FUTURE ITEM of VERIFIED SCOURCES.
IT WONT GO AWAY,SARCASM A HUGE WEAPON FOR DEPICTING ATTITUDE,AS WITH NIT PICKING OVER POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IN WORD MEANINGS. PEDOPHILIA & CSA HAS ONE MEANING EACH and associated, A MENTAL DISORDER WITH NON CONTROL OF THE CRIMINAL URGE TO ACT OUT THOSE URGES TOWARDS PRE PUBESANT CHILDREN,VULNERABLE TARGETS AND NON HUMAN PREY. CHRIS AND ERNIE BOTH 12 KNOWN VICTIMS. PS, JOURNO'S IS WHAT WE CALL EACH OTHER.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 8:41:17 GMT -5
TO INVESTIGATION IT IS CALLED FOLLOWING ATTITUDE AND THEME.HELPS TO UNDERSTAND THE KNOWN "VERIFIEDS" PRESENT, IN HAND , AND FUTURE ITEM of VERIFIED SCOURCES. IT WONT GO AWAY,SARCASM A HUGE WEAPON FOR DEPICTING ATTITUDE,AS WITH NIT PICKING OVER POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IN WORD MEANINGS. PEDOPHILIA & CSA HAS ONE MEANING EACH and associated, A MENTAL DISORDER WITH NON CONTROL OF THE CRIMINAL URGE TO ACT OUT THOSE URGES TOWARDS PRE PUBESANT CHILDREN,VULNERABLE TARGETS AND NON HUMAN PREY. CHRIS AND ERNIE BOTH 12 KNOWN VICTIMS. PS, JOURNO'S IS WHAT WE CALL EACH OTHER. I would agree with that. If I was investigating a group, I would certainly troll the boards on that group.....something is bound to come out of it and at least help make sense of the facts. |
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Post by jondough on Apr 8, 2014 9:42:05 GMT -5
Magpie,
I would suggest turning your caps lock off. Not sure if you mean to be shouting?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 12:42:16 GMT -5
PEDOPHILIA & CSA HAS ONE MEANING EACH and associated, A MENTAL DISORDER WITH NON CONTROL OF THE CRIMINAL URGE TO ACT OUT THOSE URGES TOWARDS PRE PUBESANT CHILDREN,VULNERABLE TARGETS AND NON HUMAN PREY. Using them incorrectly and imprecisely benefits no one and can only confuse the issue. CSA and pedophilia may or may not be the same but I am not sure where the non-human prey enters the picture. That would seem to be another issue. OK - and now could you provide the noun to which the pronoun 'we' refers.Ahh, I should have looked it up first - or have been British! I am surprised to learn that you are a journalist. Some CSA offenders do control the urge to act. Some diagnosed as pedophiles also have been successful in controlling their urges. And not all pedophiles are criminals. Some have been able to understand their problems and seek help before they had acted on their urges. And CSA offenders can cover a very wide range of people, many that are not associated with any mental disorder. |
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Post by faune on Apr 8, 2014 13:35:27 GMT -5
YOU FALSE PROTECTORS, YOU MAKE IT WORSE. YES HOW HUMOUROUS_ NO NOT REALLY THIS IS SERIOUS.IF YOU THINK YOU ARE PROTECTING CHRIS AND MINISTRY OF 2x2s REPUTATION YOU ARE IN REVERSE? WHY? IF HE IS NOT A "PAEDOPHILE","YOUR TRYING TO RELATE TO US" HE CANNOT USE THAT ,IN DEFENCE, AS A MENTAL HEALTH DISORDER HE HAS or HAD NO CONTROL OVER? "GOOD". HE THEN,A NORMAL MATURE ADULT(MANY APPEAR TO BE SAYING) TO DESTROY LITTLE CHILDRENS LIVES FOR SOME ANAMALISTIC SELF SEXUAL GRATIFACTION AND CRUEL ENOUGH TO PRETEND HE IS ONE OF NORMALITY SO THE LITTLE CHILDREN CAN CARRY AND SUFFER A CRUEL LIFETIME BURDEN? AS WITH ERNIE BARRY,JACK TRIGG AND "MANY,"YES MANY, MORE MEN AND WOMEN IN THAT PSUEDO GODS WAY,WITH A HISTORY OF HOMOSEXUALLITY,LESBIANISM,ADULTRY AND CRIMINAL CHILD SEX ABUSE,CAUSING MENTAL TRAUMA,BREAKDOWNS AND SUICIDES--AMONGST VICTIMS AND FAMILIES. AND REMEMBER THOSE WHO MENTION OR COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM OR ANOTHER,CAN BE PUT OUT OF FELLOWSHIP,AS TROUBLE MAKERS OR AN UNWILLING. IN OTHERWORDS IN KEEPING WITH THE WILLIAM IRVINE THEOLOGY YOU WILL GO TO "HELL". SO IF YOU THINK YOU ARE HELPING DONT SHUT UP (IT HELPS US),THE REAL TRUTH MAY ACTUALLY MAY BE REVEALED,AT LAST,WE EX "VICTIMS" LOVE TO SEE YOU TRIP OVER YOURSELVES TRYING TO AVOID WHAT GOD WOULD WANT? SUFFER LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME? SO TO CRIMINALLY ASSAULT,RAPE,MOLEST ONE OF HIS LITTLE CHILDREN BECAUSE "SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN",SO YOU HAVE DONE IT ALSO TO "GODS HEAVEN?" YET STILL SUPPORTING CSA PERPETRATORS? AS YOUR $$$ ALSO $$$ SUPPORTED ERNIE BARRY? HIRING AN EXPENSIVE CRIMINAL FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST WHO SEVERAL OF OUR UNDERWORLD FIGURES USE,d AND BRIBE LOCAL JOURNALISTS TO GO EASY ON REPORTING TO HAVE HIS JAIL SENTENCE SUSPENDED. AT WHAT POINT DID YOU DISREGARD BARRY'S VICTIMS TO ALLOW THIS. WE VICTIMS ESPECIALLY THOSE 12 KNOWN(YES 12) VICTIMS OF BARRY,HOW DOES IT AFFECT THEM TO SEE JUSTICE OVERTURNED TO SAVE FACE FOR A COMPASSIONLESS PASTORLESS SECT. WE WORKER VICTIMS,ME DECADES AGO,GET SICKENED BY ALL THE HYPERTHETICAL INSENSITIVE CRAPP YOU GO ON WITH. GO JOIN THE MARCHERS IN THE STREETS WHO ARE FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE FOR RAPE ABUSE VICTIMS,SURE GOD WOULD RATHER DO THIS THAN PROTECT AN EXPOSED SECT WITH A TERRIBLE SEX CRIME HISTORY BEING EXPOSED WORLD WIDE? victim Dennis ~ I believe "Magpie's" sentiments are shared by most of us who find CSA totally appalling and a serious criminal offense against the young and innocent among us. Thanks for sharing his words with us. My heart goes out to victims like her who have tasted this abuse personally and know how it feels to live with such guilt for the rest of their lives. Hopefully, those who read here will agree that it's truly a severe criminal offense that deserves to be punished regardless if some workers just happen to be the predators here. 
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Post by faune on Apr 8, 2014 13:43:56 GMT -5
Here's an interesting Time Line on the 2x2's which gives an accounting of some of the occurrences of CSA since William Irvine started this group in 1897:
www.2x2ministry.org/2x2_timeline.php
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 13:44:18 GMT -5
Dennis ~ I believe "Magpie's" sentiments are shared by most of us who find CSA totally appalling and a serious criminal offense against the young and innocent among us. Thanks for sharing her words with us. My heart goes out to victims like her who have tasted this abuse personally and know how it feels to live with such guilt for the rest of their lives. Hopefully, those who read here will agree that it's truly a severe criminal offense that deserves to be punished regardless if some workers just happen to be the predators here. :P
According to magpie's profile the masculine pronoun would be a better fit. |
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rs
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Post by rs on Apr 8, 2014 13:55:41 GMT -5
"an accounting of the all the occurrences of sexual offenses since William Irvine started the group in 1897"
!!!!!!!!
I think not
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Post by faune on Apr 8, 2014 14:44:08 GMT -5
Dennis ~ I believe "Magpie's" sentiments are shared by most of us who find CSA totally appalling and a serious criminal offense against the young and innocent among us. Thanks for sharing her words with us. My heart goes out to victims like her who have tasted this abuse personally and know how it feels to live with such guilt for the rest of their lives. Hopefully, those who read here will agree that it's truly a severe criminal offense that deserves to be punished regardless if some workers just happen to be the predators here.
According to magpie's profile the masculine pronoun would be a better fit. Thanks for that update Rational. I just went back and corrected the original due to your keen eye for detail.  |
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Post by faune on Apr 8, 2014 14:46:52 GMT -5
"an accounting of the all some of the occurrences of sexual offenses since William Irvine started the group in 1897" !!!!!!!! I think not ~ Good point! I went back and re-phased my opening paragraph to reflect "some" of the occurrences of CSA since William Irvine started the group in 1897. Thanks for pointing that out to me! I'm sure it does not reflect all cases ~ especially those which probably went unreported over the years or currently under investigation. The ones listed are those workers who received convictions for CSA within the 2x2's over the years. It also includes mention of an overseer and worker who were charged for not mandatory reporting these offenses to proper authorities. |
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 15:01:04 GMT -5
According to magpie's profile the masculine pronoun would be a better fit. Thanks for that update Rational. I just went back and corrected the original due to your keen eye for detail. ;) It is not a keen eye for detail. It is simply reading the post, all of the words. |
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Post by magpie on Apr 8, 2014 19:38:46 GMT -5
I am Magpie, Left school early teens. Sorry to confuse,last time I noticed I was male. Journo's should have read - Journalists would say, we call each other Journ's. No, I am not one. Re Capitals, I think such serious life destroying sins and crimes amongst a non-biblical celibate sect,NEEDS EMPHASIS !.And the noting af printed attitudes,YES,a group of people to date showing non or little remorse,compassion (to victims and families),non acceptance of reality of word and sujestions,would rather pick a hole in a grammatical error than accept or rationally debate the context of a posting. This of course will have a great bearing on final studies the researchers hand the commission. As said one Journo said. We can pick those who have drunk from the poison chalice. Thanks Faune for your input..As an ex victim of a crime called worker CSA by more than one,and more than once,my grammar might be a bit off the rails,I would like the freedom of speach,thanks.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2014 19:58:12 GMT -5
I am Magpie, Left school early teens. Sorry to confuse,last time I noticed I was male. Journo's should have read - Journalists would say, we call each other Journ's. No, I am not one. Re Capitals, I think such serious life destroying sins and crimes amongst a non-biblical celibate sect,NEEDS EMPHASIS !.And the noting af printed attitudes,YES,a group of people to date showing non or little remorse,compassion (to victims and families),non acceptance of reality of word and sujestions,would rather pick a hole in a grammatical error than accept or rationally debate the context of a posting. This of course will have a great bearing on final studies the researchers hand the commission. As said one Journo said. We can pick those who have drunk from the poison chalice. Thanks Faune for your input..As an ex victim of a crime called worker CSA by more than one,and more than once,my grammar might be a bit off the rails,I would like the freedom of speach,thanks. You have the freedom of speech. And others have the freedom of speech as well. Generally grammar is not the issue but factual errors are probably going to raise questions. I question people who are willing, and want, to discuss the big issue, the context, but do not see the importance of correcting the underlying points, in essence the foundation on which the case is built. Any journalist worth reading will first look at all of the facts before voicing an opinion. |
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Post by magpie on Apr 8, 2014 20:11:51 GMT -5
Me again? Dont forget in the Chandler,Barry State of Victoria,1950/60s a small Morris truck kept at the Dandenong Convention grounds was registered/licenced in the name "Christian Assemblies", .That is the same donated grounds that 3x families donated for Convention use. In the mid 1970s when this was Auctioned as a development acreage ,the 3x families were ignored,and Auctioned in the name of Christian Assemblies (of Australia) reg'd. It at the time was a huge amount of money. Enough to purchase around 12/14 good residential homes,a lot of money. They relied on a crooked lawyer,he lost some, so it was in the media. OH no it is not us "we dont have a name", but they still preached and decieved so many. Also the 3x families who should have fully benefited from their generous ancestors ESTATES,"IGNORED"theft by deception??? Ask a few workers where the Christian Assemblies fortune finished up? You will get varied answers? Most common is "I am not really conversant with it you would need to speak to someone else about that". I up to that time I thought Bernie Manning was intelligent, that was his reply to me,then I changed my mind and realised he was an evasive dill as the others,cause their answers were similar. Never did find one to tell the truth as to where the 2x2s fortune ended up. But Bernie and his co's went on their merry way,preaching WE have no name or property? No I supposed they had just sold the property,but still had the TRUCK?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Apr 9, 2014 22:52:38 GMT -5
Hi Magpie, what you mention regarding the sale of the convention grounds in Victoria has come up numerous times in various places, but nobody has ever been able to get any reliable answers from anywhere as to how much money was involved and where it went (surprise, surprise). Wouldn't we all love to know how much is hiding in the bank accounts of those who claim to be penniless. I suspect, though, that the workers keep it out of their own names and put it into the names of trusted elders (or in joint accounts). Calling themselves the "Truth" is one of the greatest misnomers of all time.
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Post by magpie on Apr 10, 2014 17:06:07 GMT -5
HI, We are Re-sale of Dandenong talking a lot of money. Mid 70s value would equal many $millions today. How can you believe it vanished? And so did a truthfull answer?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 23:57:05 GMT -5
Oh yep, there is definitely fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 6:43:16 GMT -5
The problem with the money system:
The practices of managing it are at high risk of abuse, fraud and embezzlement.
The reason why it won't ever get fixed:
The overseers don't want people to know that they control large sums of money. Maintaining the appearance of having little or no money under their control is far more important than managing it with good stewardship practices. Sound stewardship would require, among other things, disclosure.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Apr 11, 2014 6:48:48 GMT -5
NathanB, workers having & using money for their needs/health/ministry work is not the issue, as Ross has mentioned.
This is the issue:
"We don't take collections" (they just take money every other way).
The workers pretend that money doesn't exist. They claim they don't take it, they don't need it, they don't account for it - "because God supplies all our needs".
Except that it does exist. They do take money, they do need it, they do use it - but still don't account for it or admit they have it. It is just another symptom of the pyramid of pretense that this whole system is built on.
ie.
"We weren't started by any man - we just go forth the same as the NT ministry, as it always has" (let's pretend WIrvine didn't exist)
"We don't take collections" (here's how to give us money on a regular basis, here's how to leave your estate to us)
"We don't have any rules" (if you don't know how to wear your hair or what to do you have the wrong spirit)
"Our doctrine is the Bible" (Actually the Bible is no good unless interpreted by a worker)
The workers claim one thing and do another. And then ridicule other churches for doing all the same things they do, but OTHER CHURCHES HOLD THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE BY DOING THESE THINGS IN THE LIGHT, NOT IN DARKNESS.
I know how much money is in my church's bank account. I know what they plan to spend it on this year. I know what they spent it on last year. I know how much my minister earns. We have a treasurer. We have financial records and reports. We have an external, independent auditor. I'm sure that all this accountability is "worldly" and not worthy of the attention of the highly spiritual workings of the Way. But you should certainly stop calling it "the truth".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 14:28:37 GMT -5
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Post by magpie on Apr 11, 2014 17:48:23 GMT -5
We are talking in todays money $$$$$MILLIONS. Every ministry survives on members generousity? BUT? A fortune $$$$$=MILLIONS Hyperticals dont fit this issue "WHERE DID IT GO"? Our local church makes available tatements of recieved and expenditure,every quarter..
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Post by magpie on Apr 11, 2014 22:44:56 GMT -5
Nathan $ MILLIONS IN ONE LUMP SUM. If followers dont donate enough stiff,,but do you see maintainence on property,sheds,etc where todays value would be $millions? Where is it? Medicare looks after a great deal of human cost. People give them free board and lodgings.ONE LUMP SUM,A FORTUNE?
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Post by magpie on Apr 11, 2014 22:53:36 GMT -5
Nathan, Once again? This was happening well prior to the "DANDENONG MILLIONS",and since? Come on GIVE ME THE HONEST ANSWER YOU FIND OUT ABOUT A MISSPLACED COVERED UP "FORTUNE". HUGE DEVELOPEMENT PIECE OF LAND AND SOME PURCHASED FOR FREEWAY? As I said your costs dont add up near this. And the excuse not giving it to the donating families Cristian Assemblies of Australia said they could not find the original deeds of trust?
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Post by faune on Apr 11, 2014 23:16:11 GMT -5
Wobblyboot ~ Was that a worker sticking his head in the sand or one of the friends who feel workers can do no wrong in that first link?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 23:54:54 GMT -5
Most likely one of the friends. Workers usually know what garden path they are on.
The second link represents the people that have seen the light but are frustrated by the huge amount of sand.
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Post by reallyandtruly on Apr 12, 2014 0:24:40 GMT -5
The problem with the money system: The practices of managing it are at high risk of abuse, fraud and embezzlement. The reason why it won't ever get fixed: The overseers don't want people to know that they control large sums of money. Maintaining the appearance of having little or no money under their control is far more important than managing it with good stewardship practices. Sound stewardship would require, among other things, disclosure. Clearday- give us credit for a little intelligence. Of course we know that the overseers handle large amounts of money. how else would things get paid for. I have total trust in our overseer to handle that money wisely. But if he doesn't at the end of the day he and all of us have to answer to God and that's all that matters really. You can get very caught up with all the things that people 'might do' and end up trusting no one. |
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Post by rational on Apr 12, 2014 0:35:09 GMT -5
Nathan $ MILLIONS IN ONE LUMP SUM. If followers dont donate enough stiff,,but do you see maintainence on property,sheds,etc where todays value would be $millions? Easily. Millions would be required for maintenance. Think of the number of convention grounds. Trust funds? Bank accounts? Certificates of deposit? Medicare is only available for people who are in their 60's and who have been sorking and paying into social security. And even then the plan only pays 80%. You seem to be overly concerned about the money. If money/property is donated it belongs to the group it was given to. If you gave someone a car and they decided to sell it years later do they owe you anything? |
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