tom
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by tom on Jul 26, 2014 15:18:31 GMT -5
Exactely. You and I would report abuse, but those who have been indoctrinated to not report a brother, especially a worker, would first go to an overseer... who might then tell them to just forgive. You have to change the culture in the church first. That's why guidelines are necessary - to change the culture and open up the subject. And, I don't mean guidelines that are given only to the workers, but are kept secret from the Friends. Everybody has to be involved and informed, and overseers need to be accountable to the flock whom they say they are serving. I am NOT excusing the overseers at all, but just a thought: You say that people have been indoctrinated not to report a brother and to forgive. Haven't the overseers been brought up listening to exactly the same messages? Haven't they also have been told not to report a brother and to forgive? Maybe they were abused as children and cant face the dramas etc.. we dont know. Why should the church members be excused for not reporting to the authorities ( which is still covering up) but not the overseers. They shouldn't even be put in the position of having to make that decision. The changes in 'the culture' must come from the bottom through people being proactive and taking resposibility. Too many people have sat back, done nothing and then blamed the person at the top for not getting it right. |
|
|
|
Post by faune on Jul 26, 2014 15:44:02 GMT -5
All these problems of covering up could be avoided if EVERYONE who had knowledge of someone being involved in CSA/sexual assult/abuse went directly to the police. The guilty would be dealt with by the courts and there could be no cover up. The people who go to the workers expecting them to sort it out are just as much to blame as the workers who do nothing. If a teacher sexually abused your child you wouldnt expect the headmaster to sort the problem, you would go to the police. Why is this even anything to do with the overseers?? A person found guilty of CSA and jailed ( as they usually are) can hardly remain in the work! The following was shared on Wings site and illustrates one aspect of why reporting a worker may be hard for a professing person: "The other day I was thinking about the comments some people make in regards to reporting crimes committed by workers/overseers or in regards to making people aware of those crimes so that they can be better able to protect themselves.
They say that they can't do anything against "God's anointed".
This might bother many victims and prevent them from speaking out but the thought came so clearly to me as if from God himself..."God didn't anoint that man to rape you, He didn't anoint any of the others to do the evil they have done.
I thanked God for that thought and the comfort that it brought to me." Read more: wingsbts.proboards.com/thread/284/gods-anointed?page=1&scrollTo=1670#ixzz38aEyVIyuAs long as the issue of CSA or any other kind of abuse is a taboo among F&W's and the workers are being exalted as "God's anointed," victims may fear loss of reputation and place, even salvation, as a result of reporting. This has a lot to do with overseers and what they preach or tell behind closed doors. Another aspect of the problem is the statute of limitations, as victims often don't come forward with their report until the statute of limitations has past. How such situations are handled within the church has a lot to do with overseers also.
Maja ~ What you relayed above are all problems that need to be resolved in a new light today, since CSA is a criminal act and needs to be dealt with by proper authorities trained in this area. If there was a known sex offender in my 2x2 church meeting, I would have no problem at all reporting them to the proper authorities, since overseers for the most part have not been very proactive in this area.
However, it's still the parents' responsibility to protect their own children and accepting the status quo of a sex offender within one's Sunday morning meeting isn't exactly doing one's job as a parent. These perverted people have no business being around children whatsoever! Also, allowing somebody who has committed such acts to even participate in meeting also turns my stomach! These people have committed immoral acts against children and shouldn't be welcomed in gatherings with children; rather, they deserve to be excommunicated! Personally, there's something really wrong with any group that make a major issue over being divorced and remarried today, but put no sanctions on somebody who is a known child abuser.  |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 26, 2014 15:52:17 GMT -5
However, it's still the parents' responsibility to protect their own children and accepting the status quo of a sex offender within one's Sunday morning meeting isn't exactly doing one's job as a parent. How is this not doing one's job as a parent? Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting. |
|
|
|
Post by faune on Jul 26, 2014 16:29:50 GMT -5
However, it's still the parents' responsibility to protect their own children and accepting the status quo of a sex offender within one's Sunday morning meeting isn't exactly doing one's job as a parent. How is this not doing one's job as a parent? Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting. Rational ~ Are you serious? Personally, I feel keeping your children away from potential harm is the job of any parent. Also, CSA can have lasting affects upon a child's psyche into adulthood. Therefore, avoiding that scenario of a known CSA offender within my meeting would be upmost in my mind as a parent, especially if it's a known fact to all in the meeting! Personally, I don't think it would be very wise to even expose a young child to such potential harm. These people seldom are cured and that's one reason why they are prohibited from being around young children in the first place ~ just common sense! I would feel like an enabler of a known CSA offender, if I said or done nothing about such a person allowed within a fellowship meeting with children.
What really bothers me is that some overseers have all these stipulations regarding divorce and remarriage within the 2x2's, yet prefer to overlook or gloss over lightly a much more serious offense within their midst!  Personally, I feel known CSA offenders should be excommunicated from the meetings due to such immoral behavior and the dangers associated with it. After all, people get kicked out of the 2x2's for minor offenses all the time, often associated with not following the workers' directives, but immoral behavior seems something they have no problem tolerating ~ especially when it involves workers or elders in the meeting? Something is definitely wrong with that picture and I wouldn't want to be in any fellowship where such behavior is actually tolerated.
Fixit shared and I agree...
|
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 26, 2014 16:30:16 GMT -5
The only time I think that groups can be of assistance is in watching out for others children if the parent is not there. As I've said before, most parents would move mountains to protect their children from CSA. Many parents are heart-broken that they've failed to protect their children adequately. However, sometimes parents themselves can be a big part of the problem. Parents can by their neglect or naivety be enablers of CSA or cover up for abuse. A parent can even be an abuser. The protection of children is everyone's responsibility.  Yes, that is a good point. I wish someone had stepped in for me. No CSA but physical and emotional. The workers could have done something. I was told my a lady later on when I was an adult that everyone knew that my father was too strict, but no one spoke up. |
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 26, 2014 18:47:18 GMT -5
As I've said before, most parents would move mountains to protect their children from CSA. Many parents are heart-broken that they've failed to protect their children adequately. However, sometimes parents themselves can be a big part of the problem. Parents can by their neglect or naivety be enablers of CSA or cover up for abuse. A parent can even be an abuser. The protection of children is everyone's responsibility. Yes, that is a good point. I wish someone had stepped in for me. No CSA but physical and emotional. The workers could have done something. I was told my a lady later on when I was an adult that everyone knew that my father was too strict, but no one spoke up. My wife to be and I, confronted her mother, for her frequent sever beating of the kids. I don't know of any broken bones, but there were always bruises and much emotional harm in that professing home. Both of us were under 17 then, and each was living with at our respective homes. We knew a confrontation had risks, and we were prepared to be homeless after our confrontation. The effect was, they did not know how to handle the confrontation. The beatings did slow down afterwords, but never stopped. The workers were aware of the beatings, but had no problem beating children we heard the "spare not the rod" talk. The workers only help was telling us to pray on the matter. Apart from the child beatings, insest was also a problem in this professing home. That's her story to tell, not mine. I don't think she ever will be able to face those memories in any forum. I never connected these life experiences with the 2x2, and it may never have been a 2x2 issue. But these stories do bring back sad childhood memories for my wife and I. It reminds us again why we never wanted to bring children into this world, to suffer like we did. For kids with good parents - go hug your parents and thank them. You are the lucky ones. For kids with bad parents - act if safe and able., Try not to just pray, and hope it goes away. JMT Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 26, 2014 19:04:00 GMT -5
Thanks for your post xna.
That's so sad.
These stories need to be told for those who deny that such things happen, or say that "children get over it".
|
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 26, 2014 19:54:40 GMT -5
Yes, that is a good point. I wish someone had stepped in for me. No CSA but physical and emotional. The workers could have done something. I was told my a lady later on when I was an adult that everyone knew that my father was too strict, but no one spoke up. My wife to be and I, confronted her mother, for her frequent sever beating of the kids. I don't know of any broken bones, but there were always bruises and much emotional harm in that professing home. Both of us were under 17 then, and each was living with at our respective homes. We knew a confrontation had risks, and we were prepared to be homeless after our confrontation. The effect was, they did not know how to handle the confrontation. The beatings did slow down afterwords, but never stopped. The workers were aware of the beatings, but had no problem beating children we heard the "spare not the rod" talk. The workers only help was telling us to pray on the matter. Apart from the child beatings, insest was also a problem in this professing home. That's her story to tell, not mine. I don't think she ever will be able to face those memories in any forum. I never connected these life experiences with the 2x2, and it may never have been a 2x2 issue. But these stories do bring back sad childhood memories for my wife and I. It reminds us again why we never wanted to bring children into this world, to suffer like we did. For kids with good parents - go hug your parents and thank them. You are the lucky ones. For kids with bad parents - act if safe and able., Try not to just pray, and hope it goes away. JMT That was brave of you. I used to protest, but it didn't do any good. I left home after writing my final exam in grade 12. Moved to another province. Was out of town by midnight that day. I did talk about it with my mother after my dad died. She had a whole different perspective of one of the worst ones. He was on me slamming my head against the cement side walk and her take was I was slamming my head against the side walk and he was trying to stop me from hurting myself. My boyfriend at the time was there and he pulled my dad off me. But that is just an example of what being in denial can be like and not able to accept that something like that was happening. I was amazed when she said that because I remember it as one of the worst ones and I remember her standing on the front step and not stopping him. Now I know why. |
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 26, 2014 20:00:29 GMT -5
My wife to be and I, confronted her mother, for her frequent sever beating of the kids. I don't know of any broken bones, but there were always bruises and much emotional harm in that professing home. Both of us were under 17 then, and each was living with at our respective homes. We knew a confrontation had risks, and we were prepared to be homeless after our confrontation. The effect was, they did not know how to handle the confrontation. The beatings did slow down afterwords, but never stopped. The workers were aware of the beatings, but had no problem beating children we heard the "spare not the rod" talk. The workers only help was telling us to pray on the matter. Apart from the child beatings, insest was also a problem in this professing home. That's her story to tell, not mine. I don't think she ever will be able to face those memories in any forum. I never connected these life experiences with the 2x2, and it may never have been a 2x2 issue. But these stories do bring back sad childhood memories for my wife and I. It reminds us again why we never wanted to bring children into this world, to suffer like we did. For kids with good parents - go hug your parents and thank them. You are the lucky ones. For kids with bad parents - act if safe and able., Try not to just pray, and hope it goes away. JMT That was brave of you. I used to protest, but it didn't do any good. I left home after writing my final exam in grade 12. Moved to another province. Was out of town by midnight that day. I did talk about it with my mother after my dad died. She had a whole different perspective of one of the worst ones. He was on me slamming my head against the cement side walk and her take was I was slamming my head against the side walk and he was trying to stop me from hurting myself. My boyfriend at the time was there and he pulled my dad off me. But that is just an example of what being in denial can be like and not able to accept that something like that was happening. I was amazed when she said that because I remember it as one of the worst ones and I remember her standing on the front step and not stopping him. Now I know why. I'm sorry for your mistreatment Snow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 26, 2014 20:35:22 GMT -5
That was brave of you. I used to protest, but it didn't do any good. I left home after writing my final exam in grade 12. Moved to another province. Was out of town by midnight that day. I did talk about it with my mother after my dad died. She had a whole different perspective of one of the worst ones. He was on me slamming my head against the cement side walk and her take was I was slamming my head against the side walk and he was trying to stop me from hurting myself. My boyfriend at the time was there and he pulled my dad off me. But that is just an example of what being in denial can be like and not able to accept that something like that was happening. I was amazed when she said that because I remember it as one of the worst ones and I remember her standing on the front step and not stopping him. Now I know why. I'm sorry for your mistreatment Snow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's okay xna. I have left the bitter feelings behind a long time ago. It's just an example, as your's was, of parents not always being the best ones to protect their children. I feel pretty at peace with it now. |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 26, 2014 23:31:04 GMT -5
How is this not doing one's job as a parent? Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting. Rational ~ Are you serious? :o Personally, I feel keeping your children away from potential harm is the job of any parent. OK I read that now perhaps you could answer the question: Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting.Where is there the potential harm in a Sunday morning meeting? This sounds like an emotional response.Do you fear he will stand up in the middle of the meeting and snatch a child?Who are 'these people'?Perhaps I misunderstood. What, exactly, are you going to enable him to do? The children's parents will not be attending meeting? Yes it is. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 26, 2014 23:40:22 GMT -5
Um Rational. those last two quotes above look like what I said. And, I wasn't talking about meeting but life in general? However, I did have it pointed out to me that parents weren't always a good way of protecting children either, and I do see that point too. So it all boils down to my last quote. The protection of children is everyone's responsibility. If one fails, hopefully someone will see that and step up to the responsibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 26, 2014 23:47:42 GMT -5
Yes, that is a good point. I wish someone had stepped in for me. No CSA but physical and emotional. The workers could have done something. I was told my a lady later on when I was an adult that everyone knew that my father was too strict, but no one spoke up. My wife to be and I, confronted her mother, for her frequent sever beating of the kids. I don't know of any broken bones, but there were always bruises and much emotional harm in that professing home. Both of us were under 17 then, and each was living with at our respective homes. We knew a confrontation had risks, and we were prepared to be homeless after our confrontation. The effect was, they did not know how to handle the confrontation. The beatings did slow down afterwords, but never stopped. The workers were aware of the beatings, but had no problem beating children we heard the "spare not the rod" talk. The workers only help was telling us to pray on the matter. Apart from the child beatings, insest was also a problem in this professing home. That's her story to tell, not mine. I don't think she ever will be able to face those memories in any forum. I never connected these life experiences with the 2x2, and it may never have been a 2x2 issue. But these stories do bring back sad childhood memories for my wife and I. It reminds us again why we never wanted to bring children into this world, to suffer like we did. For kids with good parents - go hug your parents and thank them. You are the lucky ones. For kids with bad parents - act if safe and able., Try not to just pray, and hope it goes away. JMT
I couldn't pull up your attachment for some reason. |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 26, 2014 23:49:27 GMT -5
Um Rational. those last two quotes above look like what I said. And, I wasn't talking about meeting but life in general? However, I did have it pointed out to me that parents weren't always a good way of protecting children either, and I do see that point too. So it all boils down to my last quote. The protection of children is everyone's responsibility. If one fails, hopefully someone will see that and step up to the responsibility. I don't know snow. I have a difficult time sorting out the code in fawn's posts and am often confused as to what part is being quoted and what part is original. No, in real life parents are not a good protection against child abuse because the majority of child abuse is at the hands of parents. Even if only one parent is the offender it is not likely that the other one will report abuse to the authorities. The real solution to this is education on all levels and a slow twisting of the values held by society to stop the harm to children and for each adult to take responsibility for not only their actions but the harmful actions of others. |
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2014 2:57:22 GMT -5
Exactely. You and I would report abuse, but those who have been indoctrinated to not report a brother, especially a worker, would first go to an overseer... who might then tell them to just forgive. You have to change the culture in the church first. That's why guidelines are necessary - to change the culture and open up the subject. And, I don't mean guidelines that are given only to the workers, but are kept secret from the Friends. Everybody has to be involved and informed, and overseers need to be accountable to the flock whom they say they are serving. I am NOT excusing the overseers at all, but just a thought: You say that people have been indoctrinated not to report a brother and to forgive. Haven't the overseers been brought up listening to exactly the same messages? Haven't they also have been told not to report a brother and to forgive? Maybe they were abused as children and cant face the dramas etc.. we dont know. Why should the church members be excused for not reporting to the authorities ( which is still covering up) but not the overseers. They shouldn't even be put in the position of having to make that decision. The changes in 'the culture' must come from the bottom through people being proactive and taking resposibility. Too many people have sat back, done nothing and then blamed the person at the top for not getting it right. Who has sat back and only criticized without being proactive and taking responsibility? Anybody on this board? Where does that observation come from? My husband and I have tried to change that culture from the bottom (we are at the bottom  ), but with no results. Maybe the change will come, but not as fast as we are comfortable with. If you are professing, what is your suggestion for changing the culture surrounding this issue, especially in countries with no mandatory reporting laws and in countries outside of English speaking zone where there is no internet exposure of these issues? Edited to add what I sad in another post: I don't see this responsibility (to protect children) as a hot potato to be thrown back and forth (between parents and church leaders), but as something that should be in everybody's interest and hearts. Sure, I can protect my children, but if the organization doesn't want to take responsibility for their part, I can't trust it enough to be part of it. |
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2014 3:20:32 GMT -5
The following was shared on Wings site and illustrates one aspect of why reporting a worker may be hard for a professing person: "The other day I was thinking about the comments some people make in regards to reporting crimes committed by workers/overseers or in regards to making people aware of those crimes so that they can be better able to protect themselves.
They say that they can't do anything against "God's anointed".
This might bother many victims and prevent them from speaking out but the thought came so clearly to me as if from God himself..."God didn't anoint that man to rape you, He didn't anoint any of the others to do the evil they have done.
I thanked God for that thought and the comfort that it brought to me." Read more: wingsbts.proboards.com/thread/284/gods-anointed?page=1&scrollTo=1670#ixzz38aEyVIyuAs long as the issue of CSA or any other kind of abuse is a taboo among F&W's and the workers are being exalted as "God's anointed," victims may fear loss of reputation and place, even salvation, as a result of reporting. This has a lot to do with overseers and what they preach or tell behind closed doors. Another aspect of the problem is the statute of limitations, as victims often don't come forward with their report until the statute of limitations has past. How such situations are handled within the church has a lot to do with overseers also.
Maja ~ What you relayed above are all problems that need to be resolved in a new light today, since CSA is a criminal act and needs to be dealt with by proper authorities trained in this area. If there was a known sex offender in my 2x2 church meeting, I would have no problem at all reporting them to the proper authorities, since overseers for the most part have not been very proactive in this area.
However, it's still the parents' responsibility to protect their own children and accepting the status quo of a sex offender within one's Sunday morning meeting isn't exactly doing one's job as a parent. These perverted people have no business being around children whatsoever! Also, allowing somebody who has committed such acts to even participate in meeting also turns my stomach! These people have committed immoral acts against children and shouldn't be welcomed in gatherings with children; rather, they deserve to be excommunicated! Personally, there's something really wrong with any group that make a major issue over being divorced and remarried today, but put no sanctions on somebody who is a known child abuser. Regarding the underlined part: it churns my stomach too, but I'd like to think that if they confess and repent, AND accept consequences (legal consequences/meeting and convention restrictions), go through appropriate therapy, they can have a new start. Really, no church bans CSA offenders from their gatherings or shuts them out from any hope for healing/restoration/salvation. They just restrict their access to children. That doesn't mean that parents don't have any responsibility in protecting their children. And, that parents have responsibility for protecting their children doesn't mean that organizations don't have the same responsibility! I don't see this responsibility as a hot potato to be thrown back and forth, but as something that should be in everybody's interest and hearts. Sure, I can protect my children, but if the organization doesn't want to take responsibility for their part, I can't trust it enough to be part of it. |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 27, 2014 8:30:33 GMT -5
Who has sat back and only criticized without being proactive and taking responsibility? Anybody on this board? Where does that observation come from? In a number of historical posts people have commented that the indiscretions of the workers had been widely known for years. Posts have been made after workers have been convicted that people people knew of others who had been abused. When asked why reports were not made earlier the silence was deafening. The problem is that you are not trying to change the attitude of just a small group but society in general. Someone who understands the meaning of parents being ultimately responsible for the safety of their children. |
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Jul 27, 2014 8:52:48 GMT -5
Who has sat back and only criticized without being proactive and taking responsibility? Anybody on this board? Where does that observation come from? In a number of historical posts people have commented that the indiscretions of the workers had been widely known for years. Posts have been made after workers have been convicted that people people knew of others who had been abused. When asked why reports were not made earlier the silence was deafening. The problem is that you are not trying to change the attitude of just a small group but society in general. Someone who understands the meaning of parents being ultimately responsible for the safety of their children. It's possible that the silence was deafening because the posters have never been in the situation themselves where they could have reported abuse but failed to. The fact that other churches have child protection guidelines shows that 2x2 church is lagging behind the society in this regard. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 27, 2014 10:57:10 GMT -5
Um Rational. those last two quotes above look like what I said. And, I wasn't talking about meeting but life in general? However, I did have it pointed out to me that parents weren't always a good way of protecting children either, and I do see that point too. So it all boils down to my last quote. The protection of children is everyone's responsibility. If one fails, hopefully someone will see that and step up to the responsibility. I don't know snow. I have a difficult time sorting out the code in fawn's posts and am often confused as to what part is being quoted and what part is original. No, in real life parents are not a good protection against child abuse because the majority of child abuse is at the hands of parents. Even if only one parent is the offender it is not likely that the other one will report abuse to the authorities. The real solution to this is education on all levels and a slow twisting of the values held by society to stop the harm to children and for each adult to take responsibility for not only their actions but the harmful actions of others. Not a problem, just thought I'd point it out. Quoting gets so messed up sometimes. I agree, education and each adult taking responsibility will hopefully increase awareness and the number of abuse situations reduced because of it. |
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 27, 2014 11:19:49 GMT -5
My wife to be and I, confronted her mother, for her frequent sever beating of the kids. I don't know of any broken bones, but there were always bruises and much emotional harm in that professing home. Both of us were under 17 then, and each was living with at our respective homes. We knew a confrontation had risks, and we were prepared to be homeless after our confrontation. The effect was, they did not know how to handle the confrontation. The beatings did slow down afterwords, but never stopped. The workers were aware of the beatings, but had no problem beating children we heard the "spare not the rod" talk. The workers only help was telling us to pray on the matter. Apart from the child beatings, insest was also a problem in this professing home. That's her story to tell, not mine. I don't think she ever will be able to face those memories in any forum. I never connected these life experiences with the 2x2, and it may never have been a 2x2 issue. But these stories do bring back sad childhood memories for my wife and I. It reminds us again why we never wanted to bring children into this world, to suffer like we did. For kids with good parents - go hug your parents and thank them. You are the lucky ones. For kids with bad parents - act if safe and able., Try not to just pray, and hope it goes away. JMT
I couldn't pull up your attachment for some reason.2nd try on the attachment Attachments:
|
|
rs
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by rs on Jul 27, 2014 14:26:23 GMT -5
Rational said - How is this not doing one's job as a parent? Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting.
I would NEVER sit in a meeting with my children if I was aware there was a CSA offender there - not for the literal protection of my children as the risk in that environment would be minimal - but I would not want that person even LOOKING at me children...
|
|
|
|
Post by stevnz on Jul 27, 2014 15:43:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jul 27, 2014 16:31:34 GMT -5
Rational said - How is this not doing one's job as a parent? Outline a hypothetical situation where a child would be in danger of sexual abuse because there is a convicted CSA offender attending the meeting. I would NEVER sit in a meeting with my children if I was aware there was a CSA offender there - not for the literal protection of my children as the risk in that environment would be minimal - but I would not want that person even LOOKING at me children... I find this to be a very sad statement. |
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 27, 2014 17:55:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2014 18:04:57 GMT -5
Who has sat back and only criticized without being proactive and taking responsibility? Anybody on this board? Where does that observation come from? My husband and I have tried to change that culture from the bottom (we are at the bottom ), but with no results. Maybe the change will come, but not as fast as we are comfortable with. In a number of historical posts people have commented that the indiscretions of the workers had been widely known for years. Posts have been made after workers have been convicted that people people knew of others who had been abused. When asked why reports were not made earlier the silence was deafening. Often the victim doesn't feel able to run the gauntlet of cross examination, skeptics, deniers, accusations that the victim asked for it, people who say they'll go to hell for lifting their hand against the Lord's anointed and people who say that child abuse is harmless. To force the victim to go through that is adding further abuse. |
|
|
|
Post by whyisitso on Jul 27, 2014 20:45:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 28, 2014 3:31:06 GMT -5
Yeah, here in civilized Australia, you can be convicted AND sentenced for sex crimes, but still not go to jail until you choose too... cool huh?
|
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 28, 2014 4:08:45 GMT -5
Maybe he has gone to jail as it may be safer for him....just sayin.
|
|
Personally, I feel known CSA offenders should be excommunicated from the meetings due to such immoral behavior and the dangers associated with it. After all, people get kicked out of the 2x2's for minor offenses all the time, often associated with not following the workers' directives, but immoral behavior seems something they have no problem tolerating ~ especially when it involves workers or elders in the meeting? 
), but with no results. Maybe the change will come, but not as fast as we are comfortable with.
