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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 11:11:23 GMT -5
Please explain in further detail what in the heck you mean that adult child encounters are not traumatic at the time! I have to disagree somewhat.....esp. when we're talking about within the 2x2 system, because the child has been "groomed" and is reminded "not to tell" or there would be some kind of negative repercussions....the child would live in fear that he would say something that would be like telling or the child is so confused that he wants someone to tell him what happened is expected to be normal, etc......I remember at the age of 13-14 yrs old that I had conflicting emotions about what happened and the way my body reacted to the assault.....I had no idea what to do about it. OF course we're talking about over 50 yrs ago and no one would have dared report anybody much less an adult within the fellowship, esp. a worker.....so I had to live with that way up until I got married and past.....tnen did I come to the understanding what that assault was all about and it wasn't about sex! I can see you did not read the studies that are in support if that claim nor the article outlining how political correctness can distort fact based research. I will re-post the abstract: AbstractMany lay persons and professionals believe that child sexual abuse (CSA) causes intense harm, regardless of gender, pervasively in the general population. The authors examined this belief by reviewing 59 studies based on college samples. Meta-analyses revealed that students with CSA were, on average, slightly less well adjusted than controls. However, this poorer adjustment could not be attributed to CSA because family environment (FE) was consistently confounded with CSA, FE explained considerably more adjustment variance than CSA, and CSA-adjustment relations generally became nonsignificant when studies controlled for FE. Self-reported reactions to and effects from CSA indicated that negative effects were neither pervasive nor typically intense, and that men reacted much less negatively than women. The college data were completely consistent with data from national samples. Basic beliefs about CSA in the general population were not supported. |
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jscc1
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Post by jscc1 on May 28, 2014 17:03:05 GMT -5
Dear whyisitso ,A bit rude you think? Well I thought as a worker was commiting criminal sexual abuses on me that was real rude and painfull. Some one recently of 2x2s said satin was attacking the truth. Yes satin represented by wolves in sheeps clothing called workers,attacking their own. To protect the kids of today if I sound a bit rude,so be it.Criminal csa is rude and sickening.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2014 17:49:06 GMT -5
Please explain in further detail what in the heck you mean that adult child encounters are not traumatic at the time! I have to disagree somewhat.....esp. when we're talking about within the 2x2 system, because the child has been "groomed" and is reminded "not to tell" or there would be some kind of negative repercussions....the child would live in fear that he would say something that would be like telling or the child is so confused that he wants someone to tell him what happened is expected to be normal, etc......I remember at the age of 13-14 yrs old that I had conflicting emotions about what happened and the way my body reacted to the assault.....I had no idea what to do about it. OF course we're talking about over 50 yrs ago and no one would have dared report anybody much less an adult within the fellowship, esp. a worker.....so I had to live with that way up until I got married and past.....tnen did I come to the understanding what that assault was all about and it wasn't about sex! I can see you did not read the studies that are in support if that claim nor the article outlining how political correctness can distort fact based research. I will re-post the abstract: AbstractMany lay persons and professionals believe that child sexual abuse (CSA) causes intense harm, regardless of gender, pervasively in the general population. The authors examined this belief by reviewing 59 studies based on college samples. Meta-analyses revealed that students with CSA were, on average, slightly less well adjusted than controls. However, this poorer adjustment could not be attributed to CSA because family environment (FE) was consistently confounded with CSA, FE explained considerably more adjustment variance than CSA, and CSA-adjustment relations generally became nonsignificant when studies controlled for FE. Self-reported reactions to and effects from CSA indicated that negative effects were neither pervasive nor typically intense, and that men reacted much less negatively than women. The college data were completely consistent with data from national samples. Basic beliefs about CSA in the general population were not supported.I would like to see this broken down to make it meaningful: 1. What ages were the victims and perpetrators? 2. What was the abuse e.g. was the victim brutally raped or was the abuse limited to showing her pornography? 3. Has any allowance been made in the consideration of this data for the victims who have not made it to college? e.g. those who have spiralled into promiscuity and failed relationships, psychological disorders like depression and bi-polar, inability to concentrate on study, self harm and suicide? Is this the best data you can come up with to support your case? |
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2014 17:50:57 GMT -5
Dear whyisitso ,A bit rude you think? Well I thought as a worker was commiting criminal sexual abuses on me that was real rude and painfull. Some one recently of 2x2s said satin was attacking the truth. Yes satin represented by wolves in sheeps clothing called workers,attacking their own. To protect the kids of today if I sound a bit rude,so be it.Criminal csa is rude and sickening. Is the perpetrator and those shielding him/her dead now? |
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 18:17:53 GMT -5
I would like to see this broken down to make it meaningful: Download the PDF and read the whole report. Read Clancy's book. Read about the impact that political correctness has on research that goes against what people believe. Remember that there are people who still believe that supplying condoms to high school students will get them thinking about sex. Omit the condoms and those kids will not ever have a sexual thought! A range of ages were covered. It was 50+ published reports that involved around 35,000 people so you will simply have to read the report to see what detail they included. In the number of people interviewed you can expect a wide range of incidents. Just for the record, most young children are not brutally raped. The data from the study coincides with the data regarding the general population. There was an attempt to discredit the data and the methodology by groups, just as you are doing, and when referred to the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) they said they there was no reason to doubt the peer reviewed results that were published. Since the whole report is available perhaps you would like to conduct your own research to see if there are errors in methodology. It is the data that I have come up with. From multiple sources. Published in a peer reviewed journal. This is not my case. It is the data provided from research. If you think it is not true you should make your case. I believe at least two of the three researchers are still active. BTW - do you have any data at all? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 19:11:27 GMT -5
Outcomes of sexual abuse"By far the most common effect of sexual abuse is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Symptoms can extend far into adulthood and can include withdrawn behavior, reenactment of the traumatic event, avoidance of circumstances that remind one of the event, and physiological hyper-reactivity. Another legacy of sexual abuse is that children abused at any early age often become hyper-sexualized or sexually reactive. Issues with promiscuity and poor self-esteem are unfortunately common reactions to early sexual abuse. Substance abuse is a common outcome of sexual abuse. In fact, according to the AAETS, “specialists in the addiction field (alcohol, drugs and eating disorders) estimate that up to 90 percent of their patients have a known history of some form of abuse.” " Susanne Babbel, Ph.D., M.F.T., is a psychologist specializing in trauma and depression.www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201303/trauma-childhood-sexual-abuse
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 19:30:37 GMT -5
The Traumatic Impact of Child Sexual Abuse: A Conceptualizationby David Finkelhor, Ph.D., and Angela Browne, Ph.D. Family Violence Research Program, University of New Hampshire, Durham "Four traumagenic dynamics – traumatic sexualization, betrayal, stigmatization, and powerlessness – are identified as the core of the psychological injury inflicted by abuse." lilt.ilstu.edu/mjreese/psy331/CSA%20articles/Finkelhor%20and%20Browne%201985.pdf
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 19:35:19 GMT -5
Impact of child sexual abuse: A review of the research.Browne, Angela; Finkelhor, David Psychological Bulletin, Vol 99(1), Jan 1986, 66-77. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.99.1.66 Abstract Reviews studies that have tried to empirically confirm the effects of child sexual abuse cited in the clinical literature. In regard to initial effects, empirical studies have indicated reactions—in at least some portion of the victim population—of fear, anxiety, depression, anger and hostility, aggression, and sexually inappropriate behavior. Frequently reported long-term effects include depression and self-destructive behavior, anxiety, feelings of isolation and stigma, poor self-esteem, difficulty in trusting others, a tendency toward revictimization, substance abuse, and sexual maladjustment. The kinds of abuse that appear to be most damaging are experiences involving father figures, genital contact, and force. The effects of duration and frequency of abuse, age at onset, the child's reporting of the offense, parental reaction, and institutional response are also considered. The controversy over the impact of child sexual abuse is discussed. (49 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved) psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/99/1/66/
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 20:52:22 GMT -5
Outcomes of sexual abuse"By far the most common effect of sexual abuse is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Symptoms can extend far into adulthood and can include withdrawn behavior, reenactment of the traumatic event, avoidance of circumstances that remind one of the event, and physiological hyper-reactivity. Another legacy of sexual abuse is that children abused at any early age often become hyper-sexualized or sexually reactive. Issues with promiscuity and poor self-esteem are unfortunately common reactions to early sexual abuse. Substance abuse is a common outcome of sexual abuse. In fact, according to the AAETS, “specialists in the addiction field (alcohol, drugs and eating disorders) estimate that up to 90 percent of their patients have a known history of some form of abuse.” " Susanne Babbel, Ph.D., M.F.T., is a psychologist specializing in trauma and depression.www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201303/trauma-childhood-sexual-abuse Is there a source for Babbel's statements or is it based on people who came to her seeking help for their symptoms? These conclusions would be expected from a group seeking help for their emotional problems. If this is what the therapist believes there is a high probability it will be reflected in the 'recovered' memories. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 20:58:29 GMT -5
Outcomes of sexual abuse"By far the most common effect of sexual abuse is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Symptoms can extend far into adulthood and can include withdrawn behavior, reenactment of the traumatic event, avoidance of circumstances that remind one of the event, and physiological hyper-reactivity. Another legacy of sexual abuse is that children abused at any early age often become hyper-sexualized or sexually reactive. Issues with promiscuity and poor self-esteem are unfortunately common reactions to early sexual abuse. Substance abuse is a common outcome of sexual abuse. In fact, according to the AAETS, “specialists in the addiction field (alcohol, drugs and eating disorders) estimate that up to 90 percent of their patients have a known history of some form of abuse.” " Susanne Babbel, Ph.D., M.F.T., is a psychologist specializing in trauma and depression.www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201303/trauma-childhood-sexual-abuse Is there a source for Babbel's statements or is it based on people who came to her seeking help for their symptoms? These conclusions would be expected from a group seeking help for their emotional problems. If this is what the therapist believes there is a high probability it will be reflected in the 'recovered' memories. Most PhD's source their information from academic studies found in their education. Ms.Babbel has been practicing in San Francisco for a long time so she would definitely have a huge amount of professional experience in the subject. Further she is informed by her involvement with the following organizations: Trauma & PTSD Organizations: European Society for Trauma and Dissociation, www.estd.orgNational Center for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, www.nsvrc.orgNational Center for PTSD, www.ptsd.va.govInternational Critical Incident Stress Foundation, www.icisf.orgInternational Society for the Study of Dissociation, www.isst-d.orghe International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies, www.istss.orgSidran Foundation, www.traumacenter.org/resources/links.php |
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 21:27:48 GMT -5
Impact of child sexual abuse: A review of the research.Browne, Angela; Finkelhor, David Psychological Bulletin, Vol 99(1), Jan 1986, 66-77. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.99.1.66 Abstract Reviews studies that have tried to empirically confirm the effects of child sexual abuse cited in the clinical literature. In regard to initial effects, empirical studies have indicated reactions—in at least some portion of the victim population—of fear, anxiety, depression, anger and hostility, aggression, and sexually inappropriate behavior. Frequently reported long-term effects include depression and self-destructive behavior, anxiety, feelings of isolation and stigma, poor self-esteem, difficulty in trusting others, a tendency toward revictimization, substance abuse, and sexual maladjustment. The kinds of abuse that appear to be most damaging are experiences involving father figures, genital contact, and force. The effects of duration and frequency of abuse, age at onset, the child's reporting of the offense, parental reaction, and institutional response are also considered. The controversy over the impact of child sexual abuse is discussed. (49 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved) psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/99/1/66/ In the body of this work it was noted that in children and adults who had been sexually abused that serious psychopathology was seen only in a minority by clinicians. They also noted that community samples of sexually abused persons tended to be either normal or only slightly impaired based on psychological measures. This was not made clear in the abstract. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 21:36:53 GMT -5
Impact of child sexual abuse: A review of the research.Browne, Angela; Finkelhor, David Psychological Bulletin, Vol 99(1), Jan 1986, 66-77. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.99.1.66 Abstract Reviews studies that have tried to empirically confirm the effects of child sexual abuse cited in the clinical literature. In regard to initial effects, empirical studies have indicated reactions—in at least some portion of the victim population—of fear, anxiety, depression, anger and hostility, aggression, and sexually inappropriate behavior. Frequently reported long-term effects include depression and self-destructive behavior, anxiety, feelings of isolation and stigma, poor self-esteem, difficulty in trusting others, a tendency toward revictimization, substance abuse, and sexual maladjustment. The kinds of abuse that appear to be most damaging are experiences involving father figures, genital contact, and force. The effects of duration and frequency of abuse, age at onset, the child's reporting of the offense, parental reaction, and institutional response are also considered. The controversy over the impact of child sexual abuse is discussed. (49 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved) psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/99/1/66/ In the body of this work it was noted that in children and adults who had been sexually abused that serious psychopathology was seen only in a minority by clinicians. They also noted that community samples of sexually abused persons tended to be either normal or only slightly impaired based on psychological measures. This was not made clear in the abstract. Yes, I realize that CSA is considered a minor problem by some analysts. The Raelians think it is beneficial for the child. Thanks for the reminder. |
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 21:53:39 GMT -5
Is there a source for Babbel's statements or is it based on people who came to her seeking help for their symptoms? These conclusions would be expected from a group seeking help for their emotional problems. If this is what the therapist believes there is a high probability it will be reflected in the 'recovered' memories. Most PhD's source their information from academic studies found in their education. Ms.Babbel has been practicing in San Francisco for a long time so she would definitely have a huge amount of professional experience in the subject. Further she is informed by her involvement with the following organizations: Trauma & PTSD Organizations: European Society for Trauma and Dissociation, www.estd.orgNational Center for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, www.nsvrc.orgNational Center for PTSD, www.ptsd.va.govInternational Critical Incident Stress Foundation, www.icisf.orgInternational Society for the Study of Dissociation, www.isst-d.orghe International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies, www.istss.orgSidran Foundation, www.traumacenter.org/resources/links.phpShe cited none of the organizations as sources, she provided no verifying data for her statements, and published her results on a blog that is not noted as being peer reviewed. While it is true that she has had a clinical practice this also means that her experience has been with patients seeking help, certainly providing a strong selection bias for any type of research. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 22:08:49 GMT -5
Most PhD's source their information from academic studies found in their education. Ms.Babbel has been practicing in San Francisco for a long time so she would definitely have a huge amount of professional experience in the subject. Further she is informed by her involvement with the following organizations: Trauma & PTSD Organizations: European Society for Trauma and Dissociation, www.estd.orgNational Center for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, www.nsvrc.orgNational Center for PTSD, www.ptsd.va.govInternational Critical Incident Stress Foundation, www.icisf.orgInternational Society for the Study of Dissociation, www.isst-d.orghe International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies, www.istss.orgSidran Foundation, www.traumacenter.org/resources/links.phpShe cited none of the organizations as sources, she provided no verifying data for her statements, and published her results on a blog that is not noted as being peer reviewed. While it is true that she has had a clinical practice this also means that her experience has been with patients seeking help, certainly providing a strong selection bias for any type of research. Selection bias is irrelevant. She actually deals with a lot of trauma from CSA, something that is denied by some analysts. Some analysts state that trauma, both physical and psychological, is rare in CSA abuses. 20 years ago, we had a worker staying with us, and the phone was ringing off the hook from victims of CSA seeking her help for the trauma they experienced long ago. Of course, she would have selection bias in her views of CSA too. According to the Raelians, CSA is beneficial to children so they are probably without selection bias since they have the right conclusion to the matter. |
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 22:09:31 GMT -5
In the body of this work it was noted that in children and adults who had been sexually abused that serious psychopathology was seen only in a minority by clinicians. They also noted that community samples of sexually abused persons tended to be either normal or only slightly impaired based on psychological measures. This was not made clear in the abstract. Yes, I realize that CSA is considered a minor problem by some analysts. The Raelians think it is beneficial for the child. Thanks for the reminder. It was in the article you referenced. Sometimes the abstract doesn't tell the complete story. |
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Post by rational on May 28, 2014 22:25:52 GMT -5
Selection bias is irrelevant. You are claiming that some of what she wrote in her blog was from her experience as a psychologist. The selection of the people she based her blog on were all patients seeking treatment. No one has claimed that there are never long term consequences from CAS.Again, no one has denied that there is never trauma. It doesn't appear that you have read the book.And what researchers are you quoting? From the article you posted?If she looked at only the people who called her for help and reached the conclusion that they represented the universe of victims of CSA then yes, that would be selection bias.I will take your word for it. I only posted a review they wrote. But in their defense, at least they read the book before they started commenting on it. It is available here as a PDF file. |
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Post by whyisitso on May 28, 2014 23:05:26 GMT -5
Dear whyisitso ,A bit rude you think? Well I thought as a worker was commiting criminal sexual abuses on me that was real rude and painfull. Some one recently of 2x2s said satin was attacking the truth. Yes satin represented by wolves in sheeps clothing called workers,attacking their own. To protect the kids of today if I sound a bit rude,so be it.Criminal csa is rude and sickening. Jscc1 we're talking about two different things.i was saying that you referring to everyone on this board or thread as 'a horrid sick lot' as being a bit rude. I don't think you can judge and put all in the same basket when you don't know most people on this board. I don't believe we've ever met ..... Anyway, this is not what the thread's about so I'm happy to drop it. I agree with your words above that they're attacking themselves. It's kind of uncomfortable to watch it happen! I'm sorry for what you've been through at the hands of the workers. Have you ever had any counseling for what you've been dealing with? |
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Post by fixit on May 29, 2014 1:27:01 GMT -5
To get a true picture of the destruction caused by child sexual abuse you'd need to understand ALL of the victims including those who are:
1. Substance abuse addicts
2. In destructive relationships
3. Unable to talk about the abuse they suffered
4. In prison
5. Dead prematurely
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 6:49:31 GMT -5
I doubt that there are many readers here who are falling for the promotion here that trauma from CSA is rare or that CSA is beneficial to children, but here is a good reminder of the traumatic effects of CSA on children: Trauma responses in childrenAuthor: South Eastern CASA This article is written for women and assumes a male offender, however SECASA acknowledges that both men and women can be survivors of sexual abuse and that offenders can be male and female. It can often be very difficult to recognise whether or not a child is being abused, both for parents and for professionals. Children respond to sexual assault in many different ways according to their age, gender, personality and family circumstances. Their behaviour will always reflect how they feel as children tend to communicate through their behaviour. Children frequently find it extremely hard to talk about what is happening to them, especially when they've been told to keep it a secret or have been subjected to coercion, bribery or threats. Children very rarely lie about sexual abuse. They may underplay the effects of the abuse or change the identity of the perpetrator in an attempt to protect the family, but they have not been found to lie about the occurrence of the abuse itself. Generally speaking there are two main behavioural indicators of trauma following sexual abuse. Regression to an earlier developmental stage or loss of developmental tasks previously achieved and failure to learn or distortion of new developmental tasks. Signs Of Trauma Responses In Preschoolers (ages 2- 5) They may become anxious and clingy, not wanting to separate from their parents at day care or the baby-sitters house. They may seem to take a backward step in development, sucking their thumbs, wetting their beds, refusing to go to sleep, or waking at night when they passed those stages long ago. They may become aggressive in their play with other children, with their parents, or with their own toys. They may play the same game over and over, like piling blocks and knocking them down, dropping toys behind furniture and retrieving them, or crashing the same two cars over and over again. They may express 'magical' ideas about what happened to them which alters their behaviour.("Bad things happen if I get too happy") Though they say they are having fun in an activity, they may look sullen, angry, intense in a way that to an adult doesn't look like they are having fun. Signs Of Trauma Responses In School Age Children They may revert to developmentally earlier coping mechanisms, such as an ego-centred view (i.e. thinking that someone died because they had bad thoughts about the person). They may compensate for feeling helpless during the crisis of the abuse by blaming themselves for what happened. Thinking that they caused the event gives children a sense of power and control while helplessness painfully reminds them of being young and totally dependent. Their lack of control over the abuse may make them feel that their future is unsure, which can lead some children to act recklessly. They may experience a significant change in school performance. It's not uncommon for children to have great difficulty concentrating and performing in school following trauma. On the other hand, they may become intensely focussed on schoolwork to the exclusion of other activities in an effort to cope. They may test rules about bedtime, homework, or chores. School age children believe in rules. When something bad happens even if they obeyed the rules they become oppositional and testy. They may have interruptions in their friendships. They may experience sleep disturbances, nightmares and difficulty falling asleep. They may engage in reckless play. Where the preschool child will crash their truck a hundred times, the school age child might physically engage in dangerous games as a way of exhibiting a sense of control that was lost during the abuse. Signs Of Trauma Responses In Teenagers (13 -18) They often feel that no one can understand what they are going through and there is a marked shift in relationships with parents and peers. They may get involved in risky behaviours, such as experimenting with drugs, sexual activity, or school refusing as a way of handling anxiety and countering feelings of helplessness. They feel their future is limited and may believe they are damaged for good by the abuse so planning for the future is pointless. They develop a negative self image because they were not able to avoid or alter what happened to them. They are likely to engage in revenge fantasises against the person or people responsible for the abuse and then feel guilty about their vengeful feelings. They may experience a shift (either an intensification or withdrawal) in the normal developmental tasks of their age, such as dating, friendships, or sense of autonomy. They may isolate themselves, be depressed and at risk of suicide. Some More Specific Behaviours Of Children Following Sexual Assault. Wetting/soiling Many young children lose bladder/bowel control following sexual assault. It can be frustrating for parents and cause extra work. It can be humiliating and embarrassing for children. It is easy for adults and children to focus on the consequences of wetting and soiling eg. changing sheets/clothes, washing, rather than the reasons why it happens. All children bed wet from time to time when they are sick, stressed or anxious. Children who have been sexually assaulted will often bed wet every night and sometimes more than once a night. Bedwetting can be linked to feelings and may be a result of nightmares. Extreme fear can cause loss of bladder control and may serve the purpose of waking a child from a terrifying dream. Bedwetting can also result from feelings of helplessness when children feel a loss of ownership and power over their body when it has been used by someone more powerful than they are. Bedwetting can be a reflection of children regressing in many ways, following sexual assault, when they lose a number of skills they previously had. Children may regress to a younger state to try and get their needs met. Bedwetting and soiling may also occur because a child separates from their genital/urinary/anal areas. They may lose the ability to respond to their body cues and therefore become less able to regulate their toilet habits. Sometimes children may be scared to actually go to the toilet. They may have experienced sexual assault in a bathroom or their fears may focus on the toilet itself. Nightmares All children have bad dreams from time to time but children who have experienced sexual assault often have nightmares every night sometimes more than once. They may have recurring dreams which are all the more frightening because they know what is coming. Nightmares can make children terrified of the dark and bed time leading to difficult behaviours. Their dreams are likely to reflect their fears and their sense of lack of control. Looking at the content of their dreams can help them to talk about what has happened. Persistent Pains Lots of children develop aches and pains that have no physical cause. These will often have a connection to an aspect of the assault. Sometimes if a child has experienced physical pain during the assaults their body can retain the memory of this pain, for example, one child who had been tied up continued to have tingling in his hands; another child had severe stomach pains after vaginal penetration. Another boy had blinding headaches because he felt he could not get the offender out of his head. Children may also think that something is broken inside of them. Repeated pain can also be a way for children to gain the extra love and attention they need at the time. Sometimes emotions manifest themselves physically for children because they do not have the ability to put it in to words. Clingyness A clingy child can test the patience of a saint! This behaviour which is so common after sexual assault is a communication of a real need to be reassured of being lovable and of being secure. Children are attempting to rebuild a sense of safety and trust through their relationships with close adults. They are trying to restore a sense of good touch by demanding affection and cuddles. In essence, they are trying to heal their wounds. Constant physical and verbal demands can be difficult for parents but can be modified by identifying what the child needs and putting limits on when and how they are met. Clinginess can also reflect fears which can be reduced by talking about them. Aggression Aggression in children after sexual assault tends to be related to fear and anger. It can be a direct communication that states "I am never going to be hurt again". Anger is a healthy response and a necessary part of the recovery process from any trauma. It needs to be expressed in a safe and constructive way with firm limits against hurting yourself or others. To do this, anger needs to be acknowledged and recognised by the child and the adult. A child needs opportunities to discharge their anger. If this, for whatever reason, does not happen then anger is likely to come out through aggression. This causes the child more problems as their aggression prevents other people seeing or understanding the child's needs. Aggression also stems from fear and a need to protect themselves from further hurt. This can be evident in boys who may believe they were weak because they did not fight off the offender. Sometimes they can make themselves feel more powerful by hurting other children or animals. Being aggressive can also cause a child to punish themselves and confirm their low self esteem because they have no friends and are always in trouble. Sexualised Behaviour When children are sexually assaulted their sense of what is right and wrong becomes distorted. What they had previously learnt about bodies and sexual activity becomes invalid. If a child was shown how to light a fire, for example, it is likely that the child will attempt to repeat what they saw. If children have learnt that they get attention by being sexual with one person they may well repeat the behaviour with another person. If children have experienced sexual feelings, which is common in children who have been sexually assaulted, they are likely to try and recreate those reactions. They may begin to sexually act out with other children to try and make sense of what has happened to them. Their curiosity about sexual matters may have been activated years before they develop the intellectual ability to understand. Children may want to sexually act out on other children to make them feel less vulnerable in the same way they may be aggressive. The trouble they may get into as a result of this behaviour then confirms their view of themselves as dirty and bad. Sexual acting out by children needs to be distinct from what is natural curiosity. Sexual acting out usually involves a difference in power between the children and may involve coercion/force or blackmail and a repetition of an adult sexual activity. Normal sexual activity between children is about exploration not gratification (Martinson 1991 in Hunter 1996). Up to the age of 5, children are interested in touching their private parts and looking and touching the private parts of others if they have the opportunity. From 6 to 10 children have learnt that sexual activity should be hidden and will masturbate secretly. They may create situations with their peers that involve looking and possibly touching. (Attempted or actual penetration and activities using force are not normal). They are likely to be curious about adult bodies. Early adolescents will masturbate and begin to develop relationships that involve a range of touching. Sexual acting out in children who have been assaulted will involve either the child repeating what has been done to them on other children or getting other children to do to them what the offender did. It can also involve children approaching adults in a sexual way. It does not mean that the child automatically becomes an offender but it is an indication that professional help is needed. Triggers & Recovery Everyone who has suffered a trauma will react when they are reminded of it. The things that remind us can be called 'triggers' and they cause similar feelings to those experienced during the trauma. Very often these 'triggers' are not known to the adult because they relate to an aspect of the assault the parent may not know about. Some examples include the smell of beer or smoke; the smell of engine oil for a girl assaulted by a mechanic; the feel of a beard; the colour of a car; someone resembling the offender; a song or a game. Some are obvious, others are not. One girl was triggered by the Port Arthur massacre because her fear was that the offender would shoot her. Often children can be triggered by unrelated things going wrong because that triggers their feelings of helplessness. When children are triggered then their behaviour tends to reflect the fact that they are experiencing similar feelings to the ones they felt during the assaults. Parents should be encouraged to discuss with the child what sort of things trigger them, so they are all aware of situations when it may occur. The behaviours that children exhibit after sexual assault do tend to pass in time as children regain a sense of safety and self control. When the feelings that drive the behaviour are explored, they become less powerful and the behaviour becomes more manageable. Establishing a link between the feeling and the behaviour is important as it gives you an understanding of what is happening. Children can and do recover from sexual assault. The long term effects of sexual assault are often caused by secrecy, fear and denial of feelings. The more open and honest you can be about what happened the easier it is for children to be the same and the quicker the recovery. www.secasa.com.au/pages/trauma-responses-in-children/ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 6:58:48 GMT -5
To get a true picture of the destruction caused by child sexual abuse you'd need to understand ALL of the victims including those who are: 1. Substance abuse addicts 2. In destructive relationships 3. Unable to talk about the abuse they suffered 4. In prison 5. Dead prematurely To get the really big picture, you would also have to understand that not all traumatized victims exhibit the effects of their experience and may appear "well adjusted" in a meta-analysis study. Meta-analysis often produces misleading results and unwarranted conclusions, leading to dangerous consequences such as the acceptance of CSA as rarely traumatic. CSA victims often consider they are coping by not exhibiting symptoms and signs of their trauma. This is behaviour that is widely common among CSA victims. |
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jscc1
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Post by jscc1 on May 29, 2014 8:12:08 GMT -5
Dear whyisitso, How could you read I was embracing everyone in my comments? Sadly many people would rather argue over side issues,that is frustrating. In 1940s & 50s who counselled who? It was still an era, (as we see still in other cultures eg rape victims stoned to death,rapest free),not that bad, but you became the unclean and even rejected.This particularly amongst the holier than thou sects and sections of society,and I was in a little country town.Man with boy you were instantly branded from that moment. It is not revenge either to fight for justice for victims,as the exclusive non biblical supposed celibate sect has and is still infiltrated with sexual predaters sadly including those with the uncurable pedophilia disorder,a disorder medically very very hard to control. Our era just lived with it,again some found it easier not to live at all. Chris Chandlers history was known to some as he entered their lot.
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Post by rational on May 29, 2014 9:22:16 GMT -5
Dear whyisitso, How could you read I was embracing everyone in my comments? Sadly many people would rather argue over side issues,that is frustrating. In 1940s & 50s who counselled who? It was still an era, (as we see still in other cultures eg rape victims stoned to death,rapest free),not that bad, but you became the unclean and even rejected.This particularly amongst the holier than thou sects and sections of society,and I was in a little country town.Man with boy you were instantly branded from that moment. It is not revenge either to fight for justice for victims,as the exclusive non biblical supposed celibate sect has and is still infiltrated with sexual predaters sadly including those with the uncurable pedophilia disorder,a disorder medically very very hard to control. Our era just lived with it,again some found it easier not to live at all. Chris Chandlers history was known to some as he entered their lot. What do you feel would be justice for victims? Is there any justice. Identifying the criminal and bringing them to the authorities does not really provide justice but it is one of the few ways that prevents additional abuse from the same criminal. Some victims do not want to press legal charges and go through the ordeal of a trial. In many cases the investigation and attempts to 'resolve the issue' can be as damaging as the original incident. There needs to be an effort made to somehow remove the stigma associated with having been victimized and place the blame squarely where it belongs - on the criminal. Of course, given the legal systems in most countries this will not happen. The accused will do everything they can to avoid prison or even being found guilty. |
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Post by rational on May 29, 2014 9:40:24 GMT -5
To get a true picture of the destruction caused by child sexual abuse you'd need to understand ALL of the victims including those who are: 1. Substance abuse addicts 2. In destructive relationships 3. Unable to talk about the abuse they suffered 4. In prison 5. Dead prematurely To get the really big picture, you would also have to understand that not all traumatized victims exhibit the effects of their experience and may appear "well adjusted" in a meta-analysis study. Meta-analysis often produces misleading results and unwarranted conclusions, leading to dangerous consequences such as the acceptance of CSA as rarely traumatic. CSA victims often consider they are coping by not exhibiting symptoms and signs of their trauma. This is behaviour that is widely common among CSA victims. Avoiding misleading results and unwarranted conclusions is why publications have articles peer reviewed so errors in methodology and unsupported claims are not disseminated as well founded facts. And even with the peer review process in place some errors do slide through. Sadly this is not always a speedy process. It took the The Lancet 12 years to fully retract Andrew Wakefield’s article about a possible connection between the mumps-measles-rubella vaccine and autism spectrum disorder. In the meantime thousands of children have not been vaccinated because of the erroneous and even fraudulent research. Given that over 150,000 die each year from measles, a disease that is largely preventable by vaccination, this is a cause for concern. Given the ease with which a web site or blog can be created, one must use care when seeking information. |
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Post by SharonArnold on May 29, 2014 17:23:07 GMT -5
To get the really big picture, you would also have to understand that not all traumatized victims exhibit the effects of their experience and may appear "well adjusted" in a meta-analysis study. Meta-analysis often produces misleading results and unwarranted conclusions, leading to dangerous consequences such as the acceptance of CSA as rarely traumatic. CSA victims often consider they are coping by not exhibiting symptoms and signs of their trauma. This is behaviour that is widely common among CSA victims. Avoiding misleading results and unwarranted conclusions is why publications have articles peer reviewed so errors in methodology and unsupported claims are not disseminated as well founded facts. And even with the peer review process in place some errors do slide through. Sadly this is not always a speedy process. It took the The Lancet 12 years to fully retract Andrew Wakefield’s article about a possible connection between the mumps-measles-rubella vaccine and autism spectrum disorder. In the meantime thousands of children have not been vaccinated because of the erroneous and even fraudulent research. Given that over 150,000 die each year from measles, a disease that is largely preventable by vaccination, this is a cause for concern. Given the ease with which a web site or blog can be created, one must use care when seeking information. Rat, I'm curious. Just what is your intention here? Is that something you are able/willing to articulate? I have a strong scientific background. I know how easy it is to lie with statistics - peer reviewed or not. Indeed, (at the time, unwittingly) I have done it myself. What really disturbs me on this thread is the conspicuous absence of input from (otherwise articulate) CSA victims who are normally active participants on this bulletin board. Why? Is it because what happened to them is "no biggie"? I somehow doubt that. Maya Angelou, an American icon, died a couple of days ago. Here is part of what was written up about her: "As an African American, Angelou experienced firsthand racial prejudices and discrimination in Arkansas. She also suffered at the hands of a family associate around the age of 7: During a visit with her mother, Angelou was raped by her mother's boyfriend. Then, as vengeance for the sexual assault, Angelou's uncles killed the boyfriend. So traumatized by the experience, Angelou stopped talking. She returned to Arkansas and spent years as a virtual mute." Now, do you suppose that her mute years resulted from an incident, that to her, was "no biggie"? I could give a s&^t about any "meta-analysis" or any peer reviews. (I have begun to develop a scorn for scientific journals in MY field of expertise - and until the money is taken out of politics, I do not see this changing any time soon.) I only need to hear an account from Maya (or any other victim of CSA) and I am humbled and know that I really have nothing to say. Again, I repeat: Just what is your intention here? Is it something you are able/willing to articulate? |
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Post by matisse on May 29, 2014 18:33:06 GMT -5
Avoiding misleading results and unwarranted conclusions is why publications have articles peer reviewed so errors in methodology and unsupported claims are not disseminated as well founded facts. And even with the peer review process in place some errors do slide through. Sadly this is not always a speedy process. It took the The Lancet 12 years to fully retract Andrew Wakefield’s article about a possible connection between the mumps-measles-rubella vaccine and autism spectrum disorder. In the meantime thousands of children have not been vaccinated because of the erroneous and even fraudulent research. Given that over 150,000 die each year from measles, a disease that is largely preventable by vaccination, this is a cause for concern. Given the ease with which a web site or blog can be created, one must use care when seeking information. Rat, I'm curious. Just what is your intention here? Is that something you are able/willing to articulate? I have a strong scientific background. I know how easy it is to lie with statistics - peer reviewed or not. Indeed, (at the time, unwittingly) I have done it myself. What really disturbs me on this thread is the conspicuous absence of input from (otherwise articulate) CSA victims who are normally active participants on this bulletin board. Why? Is it because what happened to them is "no biggie"? I somehow doubt that. Maya Angelou, an American icon, died a couple of days ago. Here is part of what was written up about her: "As an African American, Angelou experienced firsthand racial prejudices and discrimination in Arkansas. She also suffered at the hands of a family associate around the age of 7: During a visit with her mother, Angelou was raped by her mother's boyfriend. Then, as vengeance for the sexual assault, Angelou's uncles killed the boyfriend. So traumatized by the experience, Angelou stopped talking. She returned to Arkansas and spent years as a virtual mute." Now, do you suppose that her mute years resulted from an incident, that to her, was "no biggie"? I could give a s&^t about any "meta-analysis" or any peer reviews. (I have begun to develop a scorn for scientific journals in MY field of expertise - and until the money is taken out of politics, I do not see this changing any time soon.) I only need to hear an account from Maya (or any other victim of CSA) and I am humbled and know that I really have nothing to say. Again, I repeat: Just what is your intention here? Is it something you are able/willing to articulate? No one here has claimed that CSA is never without consequences, some of them significant. I don't think that anyone here has claimed that an adult messing sexually with a child is ever ok. I don't feel like exposing the details of an experience I had when I was underage with someone much older than I was, but I think it is relevant to mention it here. This person was not professing and not related to me. He wasn't even known by anyone else in my family. Technically, what happened was criminal on the part of this older perpetrator - I think he could have gone to jail for it. At the time, I was a willing participant, and the relationship continued over the course of a number years. It was only later when my niece was born that I saw the situation differently; it upset me to think of someone doing the same to my niece when she hit her mid-teens. But as far as my experience went, I was ok and I am still ok. The situation was twisted...I mean, it would have been nice to discover some of the things I discovered with someone my own age. But back then, my life was twisted (2x2 related) and dating someone my own age was not going to happen. I don't regret what happened, I never hated the "perpetrator." I would like to have had a conversation with him those years later when my niece was born. I had lost touch with him. Unfortunately, I went looking for him only to find that he had died. What this guy did to me was not ok. I do not condone it. In my case (I speak only for myself), I do not have lasting scars. I don't feel robbed. I have never even felt like a victim. I have felt more robbed by the weird 2x2 circumstances of my life back then. If I had been following a normal progression through my teens, I would have had more normal opportunities. I described this experience in therapy, and wondered if I might be repressing anger, since I didn't seem to feel any. I think I was lucky to have a therapist who didn't try to force something that wasn't there. Again, I speak only for my own circumstance. There are heart-rending stories of sexual abuse that people have suffered as children (and adults). I don't intend to diminish the impact of these. My story, however, is one example of a situation that clearly qualified as CSA that did not have lasting and devastating effects on the victim. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 19:26:58 GMT -5
I would be inclined to agree with any statement that says consensual (non-legal) sexual activity from age 14 and up is not always traumatic. In fact, it may even be reasonable to say that it is "not frequently" traumatic or damaging. Ages 12 to 16 was long a grey area for legal consent until about 1920 and a lot of jurisdictions were then moving to 16 and higher.
When I was about 11, I had a 20 year old man attempt to grope me. Yeah, it was traumatic, and he didn't even get his hand on the target! At the time and for years later, I attempted to bury the memory as the means to cope, but that probably made the trauma more long lasting. By age 14 though, the idea of sex with a 20+ year old woman was a rather attractive prospect..... although I have no experience to report on that.
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Post by rational on May 29, 2014 20:12:27 GMT -5
Rat, I'm curious. Just what is your intention here? I intended to make it known that there has been research that contradicts what most people believe to be true about the long term effects of child abuse. There is even research that points to the fact that well meaning people trying to 'help' victims may be causing more harm than good. Child abuse, physical, emotional, psychological, and sexual is not something any child should have to endure. There are many well meaning people who are available to help the abused but if they are operating under false information their work may, in some cases, actually cause the victim more suffering. Introducing as much factual information as possible can only make the situation better. Great. There are a number of people who post here that are well versed in science and/or mathematics.One of the benefits of the internet, indeed one of the primary purposes for developing hyperlinks and universal record locators, was to enable the sharing of data. I made the complete book Clancy published and the research paper that followed the abstract I posted. Have you read either? Do you have concerns about any of the data or methodology that was presented? You are implying that the statistics they used were designed to mislead - lie. Since it is all outlined in detail in the 50+ pages if there are errors I am sure the authors would want to know. Do you know all of the CSA victims on this message board? One of the points made was that CSA does not always have an effect as negative as is widely believed. Anyone posting here could be a victim. You would have to ask the people you are wondering about. Again, you would have to ask them. Perhaps to some it is not as big a deal as it is to others. People process events in their lives differently. Soldiers go to battle and some return and suffer PTSD. Others, with the same set of experiences, do not. Personally I think child abuse is always a big deal and although it may not always have the long term persistent effects that some believe. I think the perpetrators need to be reported to the authorities in any case. Again, you would have to ask the individuals. Well, first of all, no one but you has suggested that such an experience was "no biggy". It is clear that you are forming knee jerk reactions to books and research journals that you have not actually read. For example, you have mentioned that these incidents are viewed as "no biggy" when all of the information I have posted have stated the opposite. Abuse is always bad. It is harmful to the victim. But the research showed that not every victim suffered from long term events. And the sample size was not small. It was 30,000+ people. And that comes across clearly with your uninformed response regarding the topic at hand. Since you don't care about any of the data that is available, on what do you base your conclusions? Anecdotal stories? Emotion? Self projection?I have no knowledge of what your particular area of expertise is but clearly it does not involve looking at information presented without the distortion of emotion. Oddly enough, I do not see you railing against the blog reference that CD presented. Do you find that blogs provide more reliable information or is it simply that you agree with what the blog contained?And you are not required to say anything if that is your wish. I have presented a few research papers and the data they are based on. No one is required to believe it. You can simply reject it without comment and without even bothering to read it. But ignoring facts has a price. There are still people who do not have children vaccinated because of an article published by Wakefield in The Lancet more that 15 years ago (since retracted) that linked the MMR vaccine to autism. It has been soundly disproved but as a result many children die from diseases like measles. The more that is learned about child abuse, its causes and the effect on the victims, the better people will be able to prevent the abuse and minimize the collateral damage. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 0:46:09 GMT -5
What really disturbs me on this thread is the conspicuous absence of input from (otherwise articulate) CSA victims who are normally active participants on this bulletin board. Why? Is it because what happened to them is "no biggie"? I somehow doubt that. It's pretty simple. Victims of CSA reject Clancy's conclusions as ridiculous and not worth the response......just as the best academics of Harvard University did....essentially unanimously. Victims here reject it similarly. Interviewer: You write that you’ve experienced quite a backlash from your work on child abuse when you were at Harvard. Was it really that bad?
Clancy: It’s bad enough I moved to Nicaragua. When I was at Harvard — the peak of my career, at the university you want to be, surrounded by all the people who were the titans in the field — there was just so much bullsh- going on. People focused on a type of abuse that affects maybe 2 percent of the population, millions of dollars for funding that doesn’t apply to most victims, bestselling books written by therapists misportraying sexual abuse. I would try to tell the truth. I would be attacked. Grad students wouldn’t talk to me.
Professors would tell me to leave for other fields. I just felt disillusioned. I got this opportunity from the World Bank to do cross-cultural research on how sexual abuse is understood in Latin America. I came down to Central America, and I’ve stayed.It's not only the brightest in the world who have rejected her conclusions, it is also the victims who know she is wrong. And now she is playing the victim. |
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