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Post by quizzer on Mar 5, 2014 12:03:09 GMT -5
I tried this - by reaching out during some crisis in my area, trying to ensure that 2x2s were okay. Once, it back-fired so that I was the bad guy for receiving some positive feedback from those I contacted (got too much attention). Another time, a couple of hearty 2x2s returned the favor by asking me to fix several things that they found wrong in my life. Sooo....I learned my lesson. No good deed goes unpunished. Sometimes when we try to help we make people resentful, feel like they owe us, or feel because we saw a need we judged them and found them wanting. They usually respond by finding something wrong with us then or just plain getting upset. Since these were hearty 2x2s, I'm guessing that they thought I found a "lack" in them so they returned the favor with pointing out their perceptions of my "lacks." Ah, well...
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Post by bluejay on Mar 5, 2014 13:14:01 GMT -5
Thanks bluejay ,your link didn't come threw though. Maybe you could try again,a special song is like the wind beneath the wings and as you said keep us in check. In a previous field we did ask to be moved to another meeting just to discover that meetings will be meetings. If I want to see a chance in the meetings I will have to be that chance ! Hi again Pretoria, I guess I proved just how rusty I am in posting! Absolutely love your "wind beneath the wings" comparison. Very very true. Here goes my second attempt I'm still not sure how to create one of those autolink thingies, so I'll just post the URL. Hope this works for you. youtu.be/1_p3lDJJRWc
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 5, 2014 16:56:57 GMT -5
Now you have gone and thrown another kind of love in there Fixit, to confuse the issue What you wrote makes sense to me. Christ's message seems to be craft our meaning around loving one another, showing compassion. So, ideally, the purpose of any organisation would be to facillitate that process occurring. Unfortunately, whatever the original purpose, organisaions seem to quickly become focused on self-perpetuation. I have observed that continually in welfare organisations. The original purpose, to support individuals, is rapidly superseded by a new purpose: to survive and grow. The new purpose is justified on the basis that the organisation will be able to do a better job of the original purpose. In reality to do a good job of the new purpose a poor job is done of the original purpose. In Australia, for example, with the privatization of welfare great organisations like the Salvos have lost much of their compassion at a street level. Individuals within this organisation fight this trend, thus becoming at odds with the organisaion. It seems completely contradictory to what welfare should be about which is removing the need for its existence in the first place. I find it really hard to view 2by2 culture/organisation as having any other purpose than self-perpetuation. Thus, while the people within the group have an ideal of being loving and compassionate there is no real avenue for that to occur on an organisational basis. Yep. I attended a lecture a number of years ago, and there was a quote there that instantly embedded itself in my consciousness: "A Truth is a Truth until you build an organization around it. Then your loyalty is to the organization; not the Truth."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 12:13:11 GMT -5
Bluejay ,that was absolutely beautiful ,something worth striving for ,thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 0:37:54 GMT -5
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Post by lizzy on Mar 9, 2014 22:26:19 GMT -5
The more we love others, the more we feel their love. Our insecurities make us feel like we're on the outside looking in. It has taken me years to learn this and I'm glad I truly love people now regardless of their standing inside or outside of meeting. Life is much more pleasant when loving and not judging.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 13:50:07 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 13:50:42 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity.
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Post by Gene on Mar 10, 2014 15:24:29 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity.
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Post by snow on Mar 10, 2014 15:29:31 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity. Ettu, do you still profess? I haven't been able to determine that from your posts. Likely not paying attention. However, I joined TMB in 2010 and I would have to say that the exes and friends are getting along better now than they were then. I am an ex of about 40 years and agnostic. But I truly value the people on here, exes or not.
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 10, 2014 16:58:39 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity. I have been an ex for 18+ years now. I have participated in various 2x2-related internet forums (granted, at times, marginally) since that time. I have felt genuine love within the 2X2 community, online and off-line. I still feel it, when my path crosses that world, at funerals or with visits with family. Not from everyone, and though it is unquestionable from the real quality people - from others - to see the love, you have to sometimes kind of see things from their point of view. It is not always expressed in the best way, but it is there. There are very few where the love is lacking. I have felt genuine love from the ex community, and so many of them have been indispensible at helping me integrate my past experiences. I was very fortunate to become an ex, when there were lots of ex get-togethers. (I don't know if there are fewer now, or whether I am just no longer invited. Love is not always expressed in the best way, but it is there. There are very few where the love is lacking. I think the whole 2X2/ex-2X2 community that participates in internet forums has grown up HUGELY, particularly in the past few years. People seem more open to other points of view, less likely to say "you must believe thus-and-such" or you deserve to be marginalized and sent to that warmish-kind-of-place. OR "You must believe thus-and-such" or you are a total idiot. There are more people who do not see significance in "belief" - either this way or that way. For myself, I rarely feel the need to have others agree with me - but it can still sneak up on me at times. When I first started participating in these kinds of forums - I wanted that validation, even though it might have been pretty well disguised at times. I think we are all growing up (along with the rest of the world). It's a good thing.
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Post by emy on Mar 10, 2014 19:23:22 GMT -5
Sadly, I think that's true. Their voices often seem more "rational" but then one former (?) poster would say that's because there isn't much Christianity within the fellowship of F&W.
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Post by slowtosee on Mar 10, 2014 20:45:22 GMT -5
For myself, I have experienced and been shown lots of love and compassion from both the ex and in professing community . I have a feeling that even though I have experienced, what I perceive, as "shunning" from some "professing" people, it really is not always that they don't love me, it is just a reaction , even maybe involuntary , of dealing with a person or situation they cannot "controL' or understand . I am thankful , that I do not feel vengeful or" hatred " towards any innies' or outies , but more like the "man" said, " you don't have to like me, but you have to love me." A lady shared, on Sunday ,about her life. She was abused sexually from the age of 5. She worked in the sex trade and at 36 years old , "working" in Vancouver , for the first time in her life she questioned when, a person told her that , no, that is NOT the purpose of what women were born to do. She started a loooooong long path to recovery from drugs, alcohol, street life etc. etc. , and today at 50 years old, she said she can actually look at herself in a mirror for the first times in her life. At her first recovery meetings in a church, she slept in the back pews, and gradually kept moving forward and "slept" more to the front and one day she actually sat up and started listening. She went back to the community she had been so abused in and faced the man who started the whole "process" of pain and misery and despair , hopelessness, etc. She looked into his face and she saw the PAIN in his life, and she was soooooo thankful that she could actually participate in the new experience of feeling a compassion for someone who had hurt her so much. She told him she forgave him for the wrong he had done to her. Point being, she had a love for him, and he might not have deserved it either, but it freed her, and she did not want to be a captive any longer to the hatred and unforgiveness that had been so destructive in her life. hmmmm, where am I going, with this, no idea , jjust talking , I guess, but anyhow, we can still love someone , even if they don't deserve it, and WE are the beneficiary. Don't allow your "enemies" or those who hurt you to control you and doubly ruin your life, by being hateful and vengeful with no love for them. At the same time, it is correct and appropriate to understand and acknowledge that the wrong that was done was WRONG. Ironically, one cannot forgive anybody if , in yourself you try to "smooth" it over and say there was no problem and no wrong was done. It is not forgiveness to ignore a wrong and not talk about it , with an attitude like "oh, god will take care of everygthijng etc etc. I I surely appreciate "wrongs" that are exposed on these forums from people who do not feel vengeful or hatred towards those who "wronged" them , but simply stating facts and in the "process" of forgiveness , which btw, isn't always sa one time done deal, sometimes it's over and over and over again, struggling with it. Ok, enough "preaching to the choir", I need to practice it. Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 1:34:48 GMT -5
I relate well to other musicians and songwriters ;; well other writers period I guess ... Well it' s an art form really ... Some understand and some don't Hey , that sounds like a new song in the making .....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 9:59:13 GMT -5
Were you a loving kind professing person? I wasn't. I didn't KNOW how to love. I was cold, aloof (rated standoffish in a job evaluation), withdrawn, easily upset and a POOR COMMUNICATOR. My ancestors may have been this way which led them into the Truth, I can't say for sure. I didn't like to hug or be hugged. I would avoid people in the store if I wasn't in the mood. I couldn't run a conversation. I had panic attacks and felt threatened all the time. Thanks to finding VOT in 1997, my life changed for the better. I want to thank Doug Parker,Cherie Kropp, and many many more people. At first, I went to the earlier message boards to damn people into a lost eternity for leaving the meetings. Then my eyes were opened to see the folly of system/ministry worship. My life has never been the same since the Wed. night in 1997 that I did a YAHOO search of "Secret Sect". At Yellow Springs, a few year back, Arnold Brown blasted a book called the Secret Sect. I searched libraries far and near but wasn't able to find the book. After a 5 year search (a seeking soul will always find), I did a search and WOW...OUCH...VOT. I saw the group convention photo and knew that it was about the Truth. I remember reading so much...At first I couldn't leave my computer alone. I would go into a college dorm or the main library and would have the computer on VOT when I left the room. I saw things that before I hadn't seen. I think there are socially stunted people in "truth" who need to open their eyes and minds. Many of them spend so much time around the meetings especially ladies who have to wear the garb and work at home. Some professing folks withdraw from close relatives and hang mostly hang around the friends. Many of these people aren't bad people. Was I a bad person in 1994 when I thought everyone not professing would roast in a lost eternity? NO. I was socially isolated and stunted giving my devotion to a small closely knit group. It is refreshing to be around people and not try to figure out if they are a lost soul needing truth or not.
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Post by snow on Mar 13, 2014 11:28:49 GMT -5
Were you a loving kind professing person? I wasn't. I didn't KNOW how to love. I was cold, aloof (rated standoffish in a job evaluation), withdrawn, easily upset and a POOR COMMUNICATOR. My ancestors may have been this way which led them into the Truth, I can't say for sure. I didn't like to hug or be hugged. I would avoid people in the store if I wasn't in the mood. I couldn't run a conversation. I had panic attacks and felt threatened all the time. Thanks to finding VOT in 1997, my life changed for the better. I want to thank Doug Parker,Cherie Kropp, and many many more people. At first, I went to the earlier message boards to damn people into a lost eternity for leaving the meetings. Then my eyes were opened to see the folly of system/ministry worship. My life has never been the same since the Wed. night in 1997 that I did a YAHOO search of "Secret Sect". At Yellow Springs, a few year back, Arnold Brown blasted a book called the Secret Sect. I searched libraries far and near but wasn't able to find the book. After a 5 year search (a seeking soul will always find), I did a search and WOW...OUCH...VOT. I saw the group convention photo and knew that it was about the Truth. I remember reading so much...At first I couldn't leave my computer alone. I would go into a college dorm or the main library and would have the computer on VOT when I left the room. I saw things that before I hadn't seen. I think there are socially stunted people in "truth" who need to open their eyes and minds. Many of them spend so much time around the meetings especially ladies who have to wear the garb and work at home. Some professing folks withdraw from close relatives and hang mostly hang around the friends. Many of these people aren't bad people. Was I a bad person in 1994 when I thought everyone not professing would roast in a lost eternity? NO. I was socially isolated and stunted giving my devotion to a small closely knit group. It is refreshing to be around people and not try to figure out if they are a lost soul needing truth or not. Walker, did you find you have been able to be more open and not so aloof anymore? Did you feel you didn't love while a 2x2? It is a relief that's for sure. I agree. I was always told to watch everything I did, to be a proper role model etc. It was a huge responsibility for a young kid.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 13, 2014 15:57:09 GMT -5
Were you a loving kind professing person? I wasn't. I didn't KNOW how to love. I was cold, aloof (rated standoffish in a job evaluation), withdrawn, easily upset and a POOR COMMUNICATOR. My ancestors may have been this way which led them into the Truth, I can't say for sure. I didn't like to hug or be hugged. I would avoid people in the store if I wasn't in the mood. I couldn't run a conversation. I had panic attacks and felt threatened all the time. Thanks to finding VOT in 1997, my life changed for the better. I want to thank Doug Parker,Cherie Kropp, and many many more people. At first, I went to the earlier message boards to damn people into a lost eternity for leaving the meetings. Then my eyes were opened to see the folly of system/ministry worship. My life has never been the same since the Wed. night in 1997 that I did a YAHOO search of "Secret Sect". At Yellow Springs, a few year back, Arnold Brown blasted a book called the Secret Sect. I searched libraries far and near but wasn't able to find the book. After a 5 year search (a seeking soul will always find), I did a search and WOW...OUCH...VOT. I saw the group convention photo and knew that it was about the Truth. I remember reading so much...At first I couldn't leave my computer alone. I would go into a college dorm or the main library and would have the computer on VOT when I left the room. I saw things that before I hadn't seen. I think there are socially stunted people in "truth" who need to open their eyes and minds. Many of them spend so much time around the meetings especially ladies who have to wear the garb and work at home. Some professing folks withdraw from close relatives and hang mostly hang around the friends. Many of these people aren't bad people. Was I a bad person in 1994 when I thought everyone not professing would roast in a lost eternity? NO. I was socially isolated and stunted giving my devotion to a small closely knit group. It is refreshing to be around people and not try to figure out if they are a lost soul needing truth or not. One thing I did realize - most of us came from the original farming communities that the early workers pioneered. Needing a high level of social activity wouldn't have contributed to a solid farming lifestyle.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 21:59:34 GMT -5
The more we love others, the more we feel their love. Our insecurities make us feel like we're on the outside looking in. It has taken me years to learn this and I'm glad I truly love people now regardless of their standing inside or outside of meeting. Life is much more pleasant when loving and not judging. More Love. That's what it's all about. Tim O'Brien wrote a song by that very name that the Dixie Chicks recorded on their bluegrass album. Can't enough of Tim O'. He's the "pied piper" of bluegrass; one exposure and you are hooked good and royal. First time my sisters and I saw him live we just sort of fell in love...but what's really cool is we got to meet him face to face and shake hands. He's just regular guy, but so very very gifted. Tim O's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomZH3gUunA&feature=kpDixie Chick's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykJvUoQADaQ&feature=kp
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 22:08:38 GMT -5
MORE LOVE (lyrics)
I'm so close to you baby But I'm so far away There's a silence between us And there's so much to say
You're my strength, you're my weakness You're my faith, you're my doubt We gotta meet in the middle To work this thing out
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
We're afraid to be idle So we fill up the days We run on the treadmill Keep slavin' away
'Til there's no time for talkin' About trouble in mind And the doors are all closed Between your heart and mine
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
Just look out around us People fightin' their wars They think they'll be happy When they've settled their scores
Let's lay down our weapons That hold us apart Be still for just a minute Try to open our hearts
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love More love
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 22:24:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 23:11:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 8:05:57 GMT -5
I am more loving now than then. I didn't know any better. I didn't "fit in" with the "world" and I didn't fit in with the so called People of God. So I didn't fit in with many people. It was sad and lonely but I am so thankful for my eyes being opened! I want to thank people like Doug Parker and the early websites about the Truth.
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 17, 2014 11:59:47 GMT -5
I am I supposed to wonder if my brother and sister in the meeting loves me or would it be clear in there actions ? If it was for the lack of feeling loved in the meetings I would have quit going long time ago. I have been in the meetings for 40 plus years and as far as I can remember I have never felt any genuine love. I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity. ETTU I don't think your feelings are strange or odd. I will say that we sometimes reject a persons hand of fellowship based on someone Else's conditioning of our attitude. This is one possibility. I lived through it and find encouragement in many who believe a little different than I do. We are all part of the body some comely and some not so much ken
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 16:06:04 GMT -5
MORE LOVE (lyrics) I'm so close to you baby But I'm so far away There's a silence between us And there's so much to say
You're my strength, you're my weakness You're my faith, you're my doubt We gotta meet in the middle To work this thing out
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
We're afraid to be idle So we fill up the days We run on the treadmill Keep slavin' away
'Til there's no time for talkin' About trouble in mind And the doors are all closed Between your heart and mine
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
Just look out around us People fightin' their wars They think they'll be happy When they've settled their scores
Let's lay down our weapons That hold us apart Be still for just a minute Try to open our hearts
More love, I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love
I can hear our hearts cryin' More love, I know that's all we need More love to flow in between us To take us and hold us and lift us above If there's ever an answer, it's more love More loveA great song. A lot of truth there...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 17:29:56 GMT -5
I've been communicating with ex's here and elsewhere for something more than 16 years, and I haven't felt much, if any, love from most of them. I Have on the other hand endured a lot of anger, dislike, and outright hostility from the hands of ex's. There have been innumerable put downs, superior attitudes, and seemingly endless badgering. The list of wrongs and slights goes on and on, and easily includes ridicule, derision, pettiness, condescension, solicitous amusement (there's a big one from the now superior saints..), exclusion, secrecy, hypocrisy, double dealing, and even some maliciousness. Fruits of the spirit. Us vrs them is the undercurrent, if not main current this place has run on. I've been with other Christians and in other churches, and they are not like this. They are a lot more welcoming, confirming, and loving. They say things are better here now that they once were, and I'd have to say that it seems to be true. Interestingly, it seems to coincide with more and more voices now heard here, moving or moved beyond Christianity. I have been an ex for 18+ years now. I have participated in various 2x2-related internet forums (granted, at times, marginally) since that time. I have felt genuine love within the 2X2 community, online and off-line. I still feel it, when my path crosses that world, at funerals or with visits with family. Not from everyone, and though it is unquestionable from the real quality people - from others - to see the love, you have to sometimes kind of see things from their point of view. It is not always expressed in the best way, but it is there. There are very few where the love is lacking. I have felt genuine love from the ex community, and so many of them have been indispensible at helping me integrate my past experiences. I was very fortunate to become an ex, when there were lots of ex get-togethers. (I don't know if there are fewer now, or whether I am just no longer invited. Love is not always expressed in the best way, but it is there. There are very few where the love is lacking. I think the whole 2X2/ex-2X2 community that participates in internet forums has grown up HUGELY, particularly in the past few years. People seem more open to other points of view, less likely to say "you must believe thus-and-such" or you deserve to be marginalized and sent to that warmish-kind-of-place. OR "You must believe thus-and-such" or you are a total idiot. There are more people who do not see significance in "belief" - either this way or that way. For myself, I rarely feel the need to have others agree with me - but it can still sneak up on me at times. When I first started participating in these kinds of forums - I wanted that validation, even though it might have been pretty well disguised at times. I think we are all growing up (along with the rest of the world). It's a good thing. . ... .. . thx for sharing these thoughts .. a lot of truth and wisdom there .. yes, it's all about growing up in some ways , but being able to remain fresh and child-like in other ways .. i know an elderly lady; she's in her '80s now, but her SPIRIT is fresh and new .. how does she manage that .. yet, i sense that even though life has not always been kind and easy for her, she has somehow been able to maintain the spirit of a little child .. that's simply remarkable to me and when i am her age, i hope my spirit is as fresh and new as hers .. . there seems to be no bitterness, even though i know she has had enough things happen to her in life that could make her hard and bitter .. but there is a soft - ness there .. soft, soft , soft, yet, i don't get the feeling she is a pushover either .. SOOooo, what a combination ---what's her 'secret' ? music therapy, prayer, meditation ? balance? clarity? sweet justice? i don't know all the secrets .. i really don't, but i'm working on my own spirit .. hoping that bitterness won't take root and grow regardless of where that bitterness could originate from .. . but IF i do ever become bitter, i MUST take a look at the ORIGINS of the bitter -root (not the mountains) LOVE the bitterroot mountains as they 'birthed' something in me i am forever grateful for .. sitting in their SHADOW letting the music that was laying dormant come alive again after so many many years...................finding a home within my heart ..---
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 19:02:00 GMT -5
The more we love others, the more we feel their love. Our insecurities make us feel like we're on the outside looking in. It has taken me years to learn this and I'm glad I truly love people now regardless of their standing inside or outside of meeting. Life is much more pleasant when loving and not judging. More Love. That's what it's all about. Tim O'Brien wrote a song by that very name that the Dixie Chicks recorded on their bluegrass album. Can't enough of Tim O'. He's the "pied piper" of bluegrass; one exposure and you are hooked good and royal. First time my sisters and I saw him live we just sort of fell in love...but what's really cool is we got to meet him face to face and shake hands. He's just regular guy, but so very very gifted. Tim O's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomZH3gUunA&feature=kpDixie Chick's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykJvUoQADaQ&feature=kpTim O'Brien is one of those musicians/songwriters who can really do anything...any style of music, any instrument. Anything from traditional bluegrass, gospel, blues, even honky tonk and does it well. Yet, he seems quite humble and decent about all that talent. Pretty cool stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuUoKudZUIwww.youtube.com/watch?v=igdUPEHm5wk(remembering Doc Watson) fwiw-bop
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 20:27:03 GMT -5
More Love. That's what it's all about. Tim O'Brien wrote a song by that very name that the Dixie Chicks recorded on their bluegrass album. Can't enough of Tim O'. He's the "pied piper" of bluegrass; one exposure and you are hooked good and royal. First time my sisters and I saw him live we just sort of fell in love...but what's really cool is we got to meet him face to face and shake hands. He's just regular guy, but so very very gifted. Tim O's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomZH3gUunA&feature=kpDixie Chick's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykJvUoQADaQ&feature=kp Tim O'Brien is one of those musicians/songwriters who can really do anything...any style of music, any instrument. Anything from traditional bluegrass, gospel, blues, even honky tonk and does it well. Yet, he seems quite humble and decent about all that talent. Pretty cool stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuUoKudZUIwww.youtube.com/watch?v=igdUPEHm5wk(remembering Doc Watson) fwiw-bop Here is one of my favorite songs he wrote. He taught/talked about this in a songwriters' workshop of his and Darrel Scott a few years back that I attended. It's a pretty cool song. www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-pWsEiWAD8 Space Between The Lines
There’s a little sparrow singin’ in a ring around around the sun And I’m right here on the shoulder just stickin’ out my thumb No one tells a bird to fly, they just jump and spread their wings They fly south in the winter and then they come back in the spring
And I’m right back where I started in the space between the lines I come expecting nothing but what I find I don’t follow others’ footsteps, I’m the wind between the pines I only wish that I could stay here in the space between the lines
There’s an angel in the dessert and an island in the sand And I’m right here on the shoulder so I’ll get there when I can No one tells a bird to fly they just jump and spread their wings It was time for me to travel until I found my song to sing
And I’m right back where I started in the space between the lines I come expecting nothing but what I find I don’t follow other’s footsteps, I’m the wind between the pines I only wish that I could stay here in the space between the lines(By Tim O'Brien and Lucas Reynolds, Howdy Skies Music / Universal Music Corp, ASCAP / Songs of Universal, Inc / Music of Blue Merle, BMI)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 20:55:34 GMT -5
More Love. That's what it's all about. Tim O'Brien wrote a song by that very name that the Dixie Chicks recorded on their bluegrass album. Can't enough of Tim O'. He's the "pied piper" of bluegrass; one exposure and you are hooked good and royal. First time my sisters and I saw him live we just sort of fell in love...but what's really cool is we got to meet him face to face and shake hands. He's just regular guy, but so very very gifted. Tim O's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oomZH3gUunA&feature=kpDixie Chick's version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykJvUoQADaQ&feature=kp Tim O'Brien is one of those musicians/songwriters who can really do anything...any style of music, any instrument. Anything from traditional bluegrass, gospel, blues, even honky tonk and does it well. Yet, he seems quite humble and decent about all that talent. Pretty cool stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuUoKudZUIwww.youtube.com/watch?v=igdUPEHm5wk(remembering Doc Watson) fwiw-bop that takes me back to the days of my grandpa...good memories...
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