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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 3:01:19 GMT -5
Is Dale still the overseer of California?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 1, 2014 4:28:10 GMT -5
yes
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 4:48:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2014 19:57:42 GMT -5
Yes. After he had part in kicking a sister worker out of the work (I think Messrs Affleck and Atcheson carried it out), Dale was moved to California. Eldon Tenniswood and Dick Middleton passed away, so there was a need in California.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 1, 2014 20:14:05 GMT -5
And Dale S. and his bro. Lyle S. have been involved in the 2x2 split in Vietnam (see Vietnam thread).
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 1, 2014 20:23:50 GMT -5
And Dale S. and his bro. Lyle S. have been involved in the 2x2 split in Vietnam (see Vietnam thread). It sure seems that because of who has been placed in powered positions in the work that we should not expect any great changes in the way workers deal with people! But again, as Scott has said, after all it IS the workers' church....they may well end up with nothing more then the workership in the future, but then that's the way it began so what is that to say that that should be the way it goes?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 21:37:26 GMT -5
And Dale S. and his bro. Lyle S. have been involved in the 2x2 split in Vietnam (see Vietnam thread). And those 2 are overseers of the largest and richest states in the United States. It seems that being a hard liner is what the workers feel is necessary to save the fellowship. One thing to each of their credit, neither man is afraid to write down their non-Christian thoughts in promotion of keeping worker idolatry alive and well. If one were to write down a "greatest hits" of the most appalling and galling beliefs of the fellowship, one could begin with the letters of each of these men. Dale has written some doozies.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 1, 2014 22:28:59 GMT -5
And Dale S. and his bro. Lyle S. have been involved in the 2x2 split in Vietnam (see Vietnam thread). And those 2 are overseers of the largest and richest states in the United States. It seems that being a hard liner is what the workers feel is necessary to save the fellowship. One thing to each of their credit, neither man is afraid to write down their non-Christian thoughts in promotion of keeping worker idolatry alive and well. If one were to write down a "greatest hits" of the most appalling and galling beliefs of the fellowship, one could begin with the letters of each of these men. Dale has written some doozies. Where is Lyle Schultz overseer at, sacerdotal?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 22:36:02 GMT -5
And those 2 are overseers of the largest and richest states in the United States. It seems that being a hard liner is what the workers feel is necessary to save the fellowship. One thing to each of their credit, neither man is afraid to write down their non-Christian thoughts in promotion of keeping worker idolatry alive and well. If one were to write down a "greatest hits" of the most appalling and galling beliefs of the fellowship, one could begin with the letters of each of these men. Dale has written some doozies. Where is Lyle Schultz overseer at, sacerdotal? I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 1, 2014 22:58:02 GMT -5
Where is Lyle Schultz overseer at, sacerdotal? I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 23:23:34 GMT -5
I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. As the same kind of lies were told about me, and Marge Mallowan, Edgar, and many others, I find that kind of allegation (always after the fact and vague) against Brandon to be deploreable. How was Brandon acting/talking? How was his talking about his feeling that he had brothers and sisters in Christ in other denominations "being unruly"? We are talking about the same state that once had a child molester as an overseer, but who is still in good standing as a member of the fellowship. Brandon spoke about loving others in other denominations. The horror. He spoke about how some of our hymns were written by Methodists and folks of other denominations. Lyle made it plain in his letter to Brandon- if Brandon didn't believe in the "preachers without a home and a church in the home" then he wasn't welcome to speak in meetings. As I wrote in another thread, Christ isn't the Cornerstone of the 2x2 fellowship... the workers are the cornerstone that we, the professing, have to believe in... Lyle and Dale have made that very clear in their writings regarding the excommunications. Please enlighten us, what was it that Brandon did that was so unruly in the way that he allegedly acted and talked in meeting? Lyle didn't mention anything in his letter to Brandon about any unruly behavior and it sounded like Brandon would be welcomed back if he simply believed as "he used to believe".
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 23:35:12 GMT -5
As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. I choose to think that the fellowship belong to God, and that the wicked servants (wicked workers) will have to give an account for their beating and mistreating of the friends. Thankfully it is only a small few who are on their power trips. Unfortunately, there are also too many cowards and too many spiritually weak workers and friends who live in bondage to folks like Lyle or Dale. Where is the gentleness, the kindness, the loving of the so-called enemies, the mercy, the temperance, the patience, the long suffering in how the overseers handle trivial matters with the friends? One family who left the fellowship (a third generation, prominent family in the fellowship) told me that the overseer of the state had gotten upset with them because they didn't have a chair setup at the front of the meeting room for Sunday morning meeting. They didn't realize that he was coming, and hadn't put a chair out. So, when he came in right before meeting, he had to sit by the door in the back of the room. He got quite angry because he felt that they had done that on purpose to belittle him or his authority. He is one of the workers that feels that to question a worker is the same as questioning God.... Dale Schultz made a similar statement in a letter to the friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2014 23:38:10 GMT -5
I questioned Brandon extensively in some one-on-one exchanges and I couldn't get anything from him that sounded disruptive. We also have the tapes and the email exchanges with LyleS and I have difficulty understanding what would be disruptive to any reasonable individual. Of course his non-exclusivity came out but it didn't sound overly abrasive. So I am left with concluding that he was bounced for his beliefs, not for what he said or how he was saying it.
The way these sorts of things develop is that one or two influential and noisy friends get their shirt in a knot over something most people don't notice and then it escalates from there. The complainants spread their negatives until it gets enough people upset that the workers see it as "disruptive" and are forced to boot the person out. It's not easy to get someone booted out (to the credit of the workers in most places), but setting up a "disturbing the meeting" charge is one that does work.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 1, 2014 23:47:32 GMT -5
I questioned Brandon extensively in some one-on-one exchanges and I couldn't get anything from him that sounded disruptive. We also have the tapes and the email exchanges with LyleS and I have difficulty understanding what would be disruptive to any reasonable individual. Of course his non-exclusivity came out but it didn't sound overly abrasive. So I am left with concluding that he was bounced for his beliefs, not for what he said or how he was saying it. The way these sorts of things develop is that one or two influential and noisy friends get their shirt in a knot over something most people don't notice and then it escalates from there. The complainants spread their negatives until it gets enough people upset that the workers see it as "disruptive" and are forced to boot the person out. It's not easy to get someone booted out (to the credit of the workers in most places), but setting up a "disturbing the meeting" charge is one that does work. In my case, the overseer said that "I had too many kids and that it was causing the old people in the meeting to be nervous." When I asked to be moved to another meeting nearby that had younger folks, he replied that that meeting was full. When I asked about attending a meeting elsewhere in his state, he said that all of the meetings were full. I immediately called the elder of the meeting, he said that he never made any kind of comment or complaint like that and that he didn't know of anyone in the meeting that had an issue with my family. The truth was that the overseer was unhappy that I was posting on the TMB and got offended by what I was writing. Another overseer told me to ignore what the overseer had said and go on to that meeting anyway. The workers are just as much human as anyone else on the planet. It is high time that we acknowledge that simple and true fact.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 0:06:51 GMT -5
Where is Lyle Schultz overseer at, sacerdotal? I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. In case you're wondering why I'm familiar with the churches in my area, DS is the overseer of my state.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 2, 2014 0:12:42 GMT -5
I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. In case you're wondering why I'm familiar with the churches in my area, DS is the overseer of my state. I was just wanting confirmation that Dale was still the overseer of California. I knew that he had been, but didn't know if anything had changed since last I had heard. That was why I asked on this board.
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Post by gecko45 on Jan 2, 2014 0:28:44 GMT -5
Lyle was overseer in India but then went to Vietnam after D. T. had problems.
I was told by someone that the laws in India had changed and that foreign missionaries were no longer being granted visas. Lyle may well be a man without a country, it would be a real let down to having once been the "big man" and then be a "regular joe". He will be back in Canada for a "home visit" this spring, will be curious to see where he goes after that year is up.
Dale Shultz is going to be in South America for conventions, he may very well be down there now.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 2, 2014 1:26:11 GMT -5
Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. As the same kind of lies were told about me, and Marge Mallowan, Edgar, and many others, I find that kind of allegation (always after the fact and vague) against Brandon to be deploreable. How was Brandon acting/talking? How was his talking about his feeling that he had brothers and sisters in Christ in other denominations "being unruly"? We are talking about the same state that once had a child molester as an overseer, but who is still in good standing as a member of the fellowship. Brandon spoke about loving others in other denominations. The horror. He spoke about how some of our hymns were written by Methodists and folks of other denominations. Lyle made it plain in his letter to Brandon- if Brandon didn't believe in the "preachers without a home and a church in the home" then he wasn't welcome to speak in meetings. As I wrote in another thread, Christ isn't the Cornerstone of the 2x2 fellowship... the workers are the cornerstone that we, the professing, have to believe in... Lyle and Barry have made that very clear in their writings regarding the excommunications. Please enlighten us, what was it that Brandon did that was so unruly in the way that he allegedly acted and talked in meeting? Lyle didn't mention anything in his letter to Brandon about any unruly behavior and it sounded like Brandon would be welcomed back if he simply believed as "he used to believe". Enlighten you? Everything is recorded it seems, so it would be up to individuals to decide what they wish to believe. Brandon has most everything posted on-line I believe. skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=9F62A1BE39A55224!217&cid=9f62a1be39a55224&app=OneNote&wdo=2 From what I read, the elders were the ones that felt Brandon was disrupting the meetings, and therefore Lyle got involved. I don't have a dog in this fight. It isn't my church, and I would assume that if members of the church didn't like how it was being managed, then they would tell their overseers/local workers/elders, or simply find a church that was in line with their beliefs. I believe that is what Brandon ended up doing. If Brandon felt he was involved with a church that taught false doctrine (and it appears you do as well) then the best thing to do would be to find a church that teaches the truth as one believes it to be. I believe that is up to an individual to determine. I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to convince the leaders of a church that they were teaching false doctrine. I would simply leave.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jan 2, 2014 3:11:39 GMT -5
I don't have a dog in this fight. It isn't my church, and I would assume that if members of the church didn't like how it was being managed, then they would tell their overseers/local workers/elders, or simply find a church that was in line with their beliefs. I believe that is what Brandon ended up doing. If Brandon felt he was involved with a church that taught false doctrine (and it appears you do as well) then the best thing to do would be to find a church that teaches the truth as one believes it to be. I believe that is up to an individual to determine. I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to convince the leaders of a church that they were teaching false doctrine. I would simply leave. 1) So, was Brandon unruly in his talk and actions in meeting, as you first wrote, or wasn't he? 2) You wrote, " It isn't my church, and I would assume that if members of the church didn't like how it was being managed, then they would tell their overseers/local workers/elders" Right, and I have done this on multiple occasions, and with the exception of two overseers who behaved like jackasses, the good overseers were very helpful and responded with wisdom and love and meekness.
3) You wrote, " I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to convince the leaders of a church that they were teaching false doctrine. I would simply leave." You did indeed leave the fellowship. But, you continue to spend large amounts of your time on the TMB, even moderating it. Why?
As for myself, I stay in the fellowship because I enjoy the fellowship. Also, my guess (I think that you have written about this in the past), is that in your current church affiliation, if the preacher was a bad preacher or had bad doctrine- you wouldn't switch churches- you would fire the preacher. That is what most of the churches around here do. My companions used to say jokingly "the friends didn't hire me, so they can't fire me!" and everyone would laugh at the saying. It isn't funny anymore when there are workers who have no business being in the work and they are allowed to continue because no one has the balls to tell them to straighten up or get the hell out of Dodge. Based on what I have read in Dale's letters- the man should not be an overseer. Lyle showed himself to be weak by caving into the elders.
I can't fire the workers. But, I sure as heck can stand up for what I believe to be right and seek to be counted in with the loyal, the brave, and the true. Or, as the hymn also states, "May the Lord Depend on You?"
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Post by fixit on Jan 2, 2014 4:13:10 GMT -5
Enlighten you? Everything is recorded it seems, so it would be up to individuals to decide what they wish to believe. Brandon has most everything posted on-line I believe. skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=9F62A1BE39A55224!217&cid=9f62a1be39a55224&app=OneNote&wdo=2 Your link didn't work Scott, but the following link should. It takes a little while to load though - there's a lot there. Brandon's Story
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 9:47:32 GMT -5
I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to convince the leaders of a church that they were teaching false doctrine. I would simply leave. *** If I thought I could save someone's soul, I would do it. Many of these leaders have never had the opportunity to "think about" what they are teaching and believing. Many are simply happy to live in a cocoon and need to think about their beliefs and behaviors. I applaud Brandon's You Tube video and posting of the E Mails from Lyle Schober, overseer. Brandon had a 2 day visit with Clarence Mounce prior the axing from the TX elder. One point that is rarely mentioned is the fact that Lyle and the You Tube Elder are from the same state and about the same age. When you go against an elder and overseer on the same wavelength, you are screwed. Today's workers are more subtle about their only way belief so many some of the young people aren't picking up on it. Of course, they say you get it by a revelation.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 2, 2014 13:15:32 GMT -5
I don't have a dog in this fight. It isn't my church, and I would assume that if members of the church didn't like how it was being managed, then they would tell their overseers/local workers/elders, or simply find a church that was in line with their beliefs. I believe that is what Brandon ended up doing. If Brandon felt he was involved with a church that taught false doctrine (and it appears you do as well) then the best thing to do would be to find a church that teaches the truth as one believes it to be. I believe that is up to an individual to determine. I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to convince the leaders of a church that they were teaching false doctrine. I would simply leave. 1) So, was Brandon unruly in his talk and actions in meeting, as you first wrote, or wasn't he?I don't think I used the word 'unruly', nor did I mean to imply that he was. Disruptive is what I was referring to. So, you did as I would have done, and made your thoughts known. So far, taking such a stand hasn't gotten you booted out, so while you have made your thoughts clear, you haven't done so in a manner disruptive to meetings, but rather on a one-on-one situation with members/workers of your church. That is normally the correct way to handle such situations. I still have family and friends who are in the fellowship, and have ended up involved with WINGS. Moderating the TMB has been enjoyable for the most part, as I have gotten to know quite a few people by doing so. I usually enjoy the interactions with others in our dysfunctional TMB family. [/b][/quote] No. I wouldn't fire the pastor, the church would fire the pastor. This would be done after a meeting of the elders, discussion about the situation, talking with everyone involved in the reasons, and once a decision was made the decision would be given to the church. The church doesn't belong to the pastor, it is comprised of the members. The pastor serves the members. I agree with your statement: It isn't funny anymore when there are workers who have no business being in the work and they are allowed to continue because no one has the balls to tell them to straighten up or get the hell out of Dodge.That is great!
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Post by Sylvestra on Jan 2, 2014 13:46:37 GMT -5
I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. Scott, just a quick suggestion for clarification in place of "Brandon being disruptive in meetings". Brandon was saying things in his testimony that would have disrupted the workers' methods. I don't think he actually disrupted the meetings (which I think of as things like yelling out, "Hallelujah!"
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 2, 2014 14:10:06 GMT -5
I thought Cherie meant Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz's spiritual brother in Christ. That is who I was talking about, so thanks for clarifying that. And again, I find it interesting that Mr. Schober and Mr. Schultz, two men who aren't afraid to excommunicate any that question their authority, were made overseers of the two largest and richest states in the continental United States. Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. I didn't find Lyle's excommunication of Brandon to be of any more dirt then what normally happens when one's mtg. fellows speak to the workers and elders about one's testimony being far outside the marks of what the workers have taught most people....The workers have always just tolerated people who believed a bit strangely as long as their mtg. peers do not raise a question and say how disturbing the person is in their testimonies. So yes, Scott, Lyle did go along with Brandon for a year or more and likely for Lyle himself he'd just take Brandon's testimonies with a grain of salt and keep on...but when there became an uproar from his mtgs elders and peers, then Lyle is forced to do just what he did! I really can't blame Lyle even though I have to agree on some of the things that Brandon supposedly testified oF!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 14:18:27 GMT -5
Unless I misunderstand what overseers are like, I think any of them would consider exing those who disrupt the meetings. My understanding of Brandon getting the suggestion to find a place to worship where others believed as he did, wasn't because of how he thought, but rather about how he was acting/talking. A lot of people THINK as Brandon did, but they don't talk about it in their testimonies on Sunday morning, nor at convention. After all, Lyle Schober had an ongoing conversation/communication with Brandon for about a year if I remember right, and the issue was about Brandon being disruptive in meetings. As I have mentioned before, the fellowship does not belong to the people in it, but rather to the workers. That is the choice of the members of the church, as they allow the workers to call the shots. I didn't find Lyle's excommunication of Brandon to be of any more dirt then what normally happens when one's mtg. fellows speak to the workers and elders about one's testimony being far outside the marks of what the workers have taught most people....The workers have always just tolerated people who believed a bit strangely as long as their mtg. peers do not raise a question and say how disturbing the person is in their testimonies. So yes, Scott, Lyle did go along with Brandon for a year or more and likely for Lyle himself he'd just take Brandon's testimonies with a grain of salt and keep on...but when there became an uproar from his mtgs elders and peers, then Lyle is forced to do just what he did! I really can't blame Lyle even though I have to agree on some of the things that Brandon supposedly testified oF! That's pretty much how I see it too STR. However, it really wasn't so much Brandon that he tolerated for a year, it was the complaining friends that he tolerated for a year. When he could no longer tolerate their complaints, he acted against Brandon. That's actually a pretty common practice of "wisdom" among overseers. Keep hands off for a year and if it doesn't settle down in that time, rule in favour of the majority. It's very poor leadership skills but workers in general don't have any mediation training and development so only those who have those natural abilities are able reconcile people with any success. Mostly workers just try to suppress conflict in the hopes it will go away and if it continues, they remove the weakest side of the issue.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 2, 2014 14:18:32 GMT -5
Lyle was overseer in India but then went to Vietnam after D. T. had problems. I was told by someone that the laws in India had changed and that foreign missionaries were no longer being granted visas. Lyle may well be a man without a country, it would be a real let down to having once been the "big man" and then be a "regular joe". He will be back in Canada for a "home visit" this spring, will be curious to see where he goes after that year is up. Dale Shultz is going to be in South America for conventions, he may very well be down there now. If things make it to where lyle Shultz can no longer be in VN...then I wonder if he'll be sent home and be on "resting" status?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 2, 2014 14:22:38 GMT -5
I didn't find Lyle's excommunication of Brandon to be of any more dirt then what normally happens when one's mtg. fellows speak to the workers and elders about one's testimony being far outside the marks of what the workers have taught most people....The workers have always just tolerated people who believed a bit strangely as long as their mtg. peers do not raise a question and say how disturbing the person is in their testimonies. So yes, Scott, Lyle did go along with Brandon for a year or more and likely for Lyle himself he'd just take Brandon's testimonies with a grain of salt and keep on...but when there became an uproar from his mtgs elders and peers, then Lyle is forced to do just what he did! I really can't blame Lyle even though I have to agree on some of the things that Brandon supposedly testified oF! That's pretty much how I see it too STR. However, it really wasn't so much Brandon that he tolerated for a year, it was the complaining friends that he tolerated for a year. When he could no longer tolerate their complaints, he acted against Brandon. That's actually a pretty common practice of "wisdom" among overseers. Keep hands off for a year and if it doesn't settle down in that time, rule in favour of the majority. It's very poor leadership skills but workers in general don't have any mediation training and development so only those who have those natural abilities are able reconcile people with any success. Mostly workers just try to suppress conflict in the hopes it will go away and if it continues, they remove the weakest side of the issue. I wonder if the "year" situation came from the unfruitful tree...the master wanted to cut it down, but the gardener asked for another year...he would till the soil around it's roots and then dung it and then in another year's time if no fruit by then, down came the tree! It wouldn't surprise me that this is where they've gotten their year of just tolerating the problems then after that if it isn't settled down and all, the cut the offending member out.....that again is part and parcel of what Jesus said, that if our eye offended then we were to pluck out that eyem, etc....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 14:25:27 GMT -5
Lyle was overseer in India but then went to Vietnam after D. T. had problems. I was told by someone that the laws in India had changed and that foreign missionaries were no longer being granted visas. Lyle may well be a man without a country, it would be a real let down to having once been the "big man" and then be a "regular joe". He will be back in Canada for a "home visit" this spring, will be curious to see where he goes after that year is up. Dale Shultz is going to be in South America for conventions, he may very well be down there now. If things make it to where lyle Shultz can no longer be in VN...then I wonder if he'll be sent home and be on "resting" status? As long as LS is healthy, he won't be sent home as "resting". He will either be sent home for his "home visit" for a year as a regular worker there or found another country to fix. A third option is a world convention tour until he is found a country. I wouldn't be surprised that all foreign workers in VN are going have difficulty renewing any visas which are tourist visas if a list is given to the authorities.
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