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Post by magpie on Jan 6, 2015 16:25:36 GMT -5
"RATIONAL",Within a sect/cult where mind control is paramount,the victims would fear being persecuted to a point that they would believe they are going to miss heaven if they rock the boat. In other words they are scared stiff,of ministry.
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Post by rational on Jan 6, 2015 21:45:29 GMT -5
"RATIONAL",Within a sect/cult where mind control is paramount,the victims would fear being persecuted to a point that they would believe they are going to miss heaven if they rock the boat. In other words they are scared stiff,of ministry. And who should accept the responsibility for what people choose to believe? If you believe that criminal who abuses children or a criminal who hides the criminal behavior of other criminals controls whether you get to go to heaven or not isn't it time to step back and consider those beliefs in light of the reality of what has happened? If the group you belong to persecutes members isn't it time to reevaluate your allegiance to such a group? I believe we are speaking of adults who can think for themselves. Some say that people will stay in any situation as long as, in their mind, they are getting more by staying then it will 'cost' them to leave. There are cults that do deprive people of sleep, lock them in closets, physically prevent them from talking to people outside the group, etc. Which of these tactics have been applied by the F&W? |
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Post by magpie on Jan 6, 2015 23:05:44 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Jan 7, 2015 11:03:21 GMT -5
Quoting Bradly Lewis does not carry a lot of weight. However, even he was honest enough to include the following disclaimer: They probably exist in a very very few examples, but I have NEVER met a worker that I would regard a psychological sexual 'pervert' or as a clinical pedophile. Having said that, it would mean that his report was based on hearsay. Bradly Lewis also implies that being celibate increases the risk of sexual abuse yet offers little to support his claim or the fact that most men that abuse children are married. The old stereotypes need to be put to rest so that people can deal with facts and not myths. I don't think anyone is saying that there are not workers who abuse children but I believe many are caught up in the moral panic that surrounds the issue. |
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Post by magpie on Jan 8, 2015 16:48:08 GMT -5
And just a few CSA criminals amongst sect is O.K? "PANIC" they should,childrens innocence is at stake.
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Post by rational on Jan 8, 2015 19:52:39 GMT -5
And just a few CSA criminals amongst sect is O.K? "PANIC" they should,childrens innocence is at stake. And when they are discovered they need to be reported so they will not be able to abuse additional children. How do you think people can be educated to realize that criminals need to be dealt with by the authorities and not treated as having failed in some spiritual way? |
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Post by magpie on Jan 10, 2015 1:37:48 GMT -5
Rationale,you serious many of us 2x2 paedophile preacher victims go to the grave silent. Who does a child confide in? A risk=worker.? A parent of elder who worship workers as Gods rep's? Face abuse,gossip,rejection,judgement,branded as a kid with a weird imagination/making trouble to fight against the only true way and ministry, and put down so badly that over the next years often mental problems even suicide (as has been seen) can take you away from it? Secret sect they dont want to be bothered with such cries for help? How does an 11 year old boy or girl go to a police station on their own? You still try and lessen the enormity of this deviant problem.
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Post by rational on Jan 11, 2015 10:12:01 GMT -5
Rationale,you serious many of us 2x2 paedophile preacher victims go to the grave silent. This is sadly true. But everyone should realize that the times today are different and by victims not reporting the crimes continue.It would be nice if the answer could be "Their parents". But we have to be realistic and acknowledge that up until a short while ago reporting such events to parents was not possible and, if it were reported, the results were not always satisfactory.And it is because of beliefs like this that the members need to be educated so that this is not what a victim experiences when a crime is reported. It also points out the reason that crimes need to be reported to an external agency to be resolved.It is difficult to bring charges against this type of criminal. It is even more difficult when the victims will not come forth to testify.Unless they have the support of a responsible adult, they don't. Of course, once they reach their majority they can still press charges. In most places the statute of limitation does not start to expire until the victim is of age.I am not trying to lessen the problem. I am trying to put it into perspective. I feel it is important that the members realize that the leaders of the F&W and not above criminal acts and that they need to report crimes to the authorities. As long as anyone protects criminals the fight to eliminate/reduce abuse cannot be successful. The members, and the victims, have to understand that they have the power to stop the abuse, with or without the help/consent, of the leaders of the church. As long as the members empower the leaders to cover up their crimes the fight to reduce abuse will progress slowly. |
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Post by magpie on Jan 21, 2015 18:47:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 19:01:02 GMT -5
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Post by bubbles on Jan 22, 2015 1:23:02 GMT -5
Rational
I know you are trying to put this in the right perspective.
Magpies right. Its as he states.
Short of banging your head on a brick wall. The head workers have too much power. The people are a community in itself. Its like a family with secure walls. Except love isnt the motivator. Honesty and trust are not regarded here. Position. Power. Authority (the wrong kind). All play a part on the coverup. I ask myself with screaming frustration. Where are the advocates?
They are voices crying in the wilderness.
AR wrote about CSA on wings.
Wouldnt you think he would have made sure all of the people the workers shepherd had a copy?
Nope.
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Post by rational on Jan 25, 2015 8:14:13 GMT -5
Rational I know you are trying to put this in the right perspective. Magpies right. Its as he states. Short of banging your head on a brick wall. The head workers have too much power. The workers only have as much power as the members are willing to give them. I am not defending the workers or blaming them. I think people have to start accepting responsibility for their actions/inaction. |
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Post by Mary on Jan 25, 2015 15:20:09 GMT -5
Mind control is a powerful thing especially if it is from birth. It stops us thinking for ourselves. Back in those days no one would believe those who did speak out. The victims were revictimised if they went for help.
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Post by rational on Jan 25, 2015 21:42:30 GMT -5
Mind control is a powerful thing especially if it is from birth. It stops us thinking for ourselves. Back in those days no one would believe those who did speak out. The victims were revictimised if they went for help. A decade ago this may have been the case. Hopefully, as I mentioned, people will start accepting responsibility for their actions/inaction. By now, whether within the F&W or not, most people have heard that abuse needs to be reported directly to the authorities. |
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Post by rational on Jan 27, 2015 23:27:49 GMT -5
A decade ago this may have been the case. Hopefully, as I mentioned, people will start accepting responsibility for their actions/inaction. By now, whether within the F&W or not, most people have heard that abuse needs to be reported directly to the authorities. There have been many changes over the last century but change is not always progress. Just because a law is passed does not mean that people will follow it when they might end up paying a personal price for challenging people that they see as having authority over them. I agree it has nothing to do with a law being passed. But it is difficult for anyone to act on criminal behavior if the victims are unwilling to take action. People cannot be charged for offenses based on rumor, gossip, and unverified claims. If they see someone as having authority over them it is because they have given that person that authority. That is an action for which they have to accept responsibility. |
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Post by magpie on Jan 28, 2015 16:07:56 GMT -5
Look up Kris Vallottons 4 minute talk on sin and mistakes.Also--michaelhyatt.com/the-difference-between-a-sin-and-a-mistake.html
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Post by magpie on Jan 28, 2015 16:09:24 GMT -5
Look up Kris Vallottons 4 minute talk on sin and mistakes.Also-- michaelhyatt.com/the-difference-between-a-sin-and-a-mistake.html
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Post by magpie on Feb 4, 2015 23:06:16 GMT -5
Rationale,ON 22nd january you said "NO" re the registration papers of the victorian chapter of the supposed "NAMELESS" worldwide sect/cult founded by William Irvine? Why? Who would you be speaking of then? Apply in writting and see who the three administraters are,if it isnt a coincedence ,three same names as three bound in the workers grasps. Then you must be on the wrong site and speaking of another denomination,not the undenominational denomination, as lightheartedly refered to by media and many christian onlookers? Feel sorry that you got "Christian Conventions (formally Christian Assemblies)confused as another denomination".
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 4, 2015 23:19:28 GMT -5
Look up Kris Vallottons 4 minute talk on sin and mistakes.Also-- michaelhyatt.com/the-difference-between-a-sin-and-a-mistake.html
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Post by rational on Feb 5, 2015 11:51:44 GMT -5
Rationale,ON 22nd january you said "NO" re the registration papers of the victorian chapter of the supposed "NAMELESS" worldwide sect/cult founded by William Irvine? Why? Who would you be speaking of then? Apply in writting and see who the three administraters are,if it isnt a coincedence ,three same names as three bound in the workers grasps. Then you must be on the wrong site and speaking of another denomination,not the undenominational denomination, as lightheartedly refered to by media and many christian onlookers? Feel sorry that you got "Christian Conventions (formally Christian Assemblies)confused as another denomination". I think you need to go back to the response you are mentioning and see who posted the word "NO". You seem to be flailing. |
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Post by magpie on Feb 6, 2015 22:32:15 GMT -5
Sorry Rationale,People stopped me from writing in CAPITALS,don't sort of see as good as once,it was a rude bad mannered selfish request,but perhaps they couldn't read CAPS? I will be a bit more inclined to read twice,don't want to stop our discussions,it is healthy,I to often need to have one or two bits corrected. In Europe an Aussie lady sat at our table and said,"I HATE" Collingwood, you can't be a (Collingwood)Magpie supporter you have no missing teeth? I informed her,I wear a full set of dentures.. You know she never sat at our table again?
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Post by rational on Feb 7, 2015 0:45:20 GMT -5
Sorry Rationale,People stopped me from writing in CAPITALS,don't sort of see as good as once,it was a rude bad mannered selfish request,but perhaps they couldn't read CAPS? I will be a bit more inclined to read twice,don't want to stop our discussions,it is healthy,I to often need to have one or two bits corrected. In Europe an Aussie lady sat at our table and said,"I HATE" Collingwood, you can't be a (Collingwood)Magpie supporter you have no missing teeth? I informed her,I wear a full set of dentures.. You know she never sat at our table again? You could write with a larger font and then make normal use of upper and lower case characters. When you start to post click 'Preview' and then on 'Font Size' and select #5(18 point) and it will look like this.
You can also go into your profile and make Preview your default editing mode.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 7, 2015 2:16:02 GMT -5
Sorry Rationale,People stopped me from writing in CAPITALS,don't sort of see as good as once,it was a rude bad mannered selfish request,but perhaps they couldn't read CAPS? I will be a bit more inclined to read twice,don't want to stop our discussions,it is healthy,I to often need to have one or two bits corrected. In Europe an Aussie lady sat at our table and said,"I HATE" Collingwood, you can't be a (Collingwood)Magpie supporter you have no missing teeth? I informed her,I wear a full set of dentures.. You know she never sat at our table again?
1 Jan 2015 at 17:47 magpie said:
"This is who we are talking about isn't it? www.acnc.gov.au/AIS2013?ID=382D4ADA-A2DD-4034-AE45-EDB2E82DA629&noleft=1"
The person that answered "NO." was redback.
I understand your problem with your eyes . I have always had one eye that I have had trouble with all my life.
I had to start wearing glasses at 4 years old, at a time when they didn't put glasses on children.
That is the reason I bold everything & have it in blue.
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Post by xna on Oct 8, 2015 19:08:30 GMT -5
For those who are interested in examining what overseers are issuing for CSA guidelines, you can read them here on WINGS: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/letters-to-friends-and-workers/The older one is from 2006 by Dale Schultz from California who is considered the leading overseer of the Western Alliance. A more recent one is written in 2012 by Alan Richardson from NZ, who is considered the most senior overseer of the Australasia area.
Here is a resource which may help. SNAP www.snapnetwork.org/
It's not just for those abused by the RCC. This organization has more than 10,000 members and support groups meet in over 60 cities across the U.S. and the world. |
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