Overseers' CSA Guidelines

[Deleted]

For those who are interested in examining what overseers are issuing for CSA guidelines, you can read them here on WINGS: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/letters-to-friends-and-workers/


The older one is from 2006 by Dale Schultz from California who is considered the leading overseer of the Western Alliance.

A more recent one is written in 2012 by Alan Richardson from NZ, who is considered the most senior overseer of the Australasia area.

[magpie]

For 50 years of my fathers life he saught change. He would speak a lot to those on the 2x2 fringe,the ones outside the inner circle. They would complain and doll about poor preaching,those who ostracised or penalised a questioner,things must change they would say time and time again. No it didnt and wont.
I have known of the paedophile troubles dating 80 years. Personal experience x2 preachers 70 years. No things haven't and wont change. As in U.S and Australia,it is only the modern electronic communications and media that has revealed people and names of criminal sex acts,against children,vulnerables and young teens. Leading to revelations and thankfully charges. So they are saying they will do something about it? But what of those who say this? They also live an unnatural unbiblical life,scarey isnt it?. Still wonder why David Leitch went out of his way to protect Ernie Barry,and not allow the other 12 known victims get protection and justice? Barry's hold over Leitch? It is a big question who is asking it,"why Mr Leitch are you allowing young lives suffer more in your ungodly support of a mentally disordered paedophile deviant?

[Deleted]

magpie, your accusations are without foundation, only in your mind. Time to give up and get a life. Be a peacemaker, not a trouble maker.

[magpie]

Trouble maker? ME? My fight is to protect others,not me. Breakdowns of individuals and families,suicides,divorces ,adultries,ignorings by blind followers,ostracisms,gossipings,the nonbiblical demand for celibacy,causing people with doubts of their sexual being/minds to join (some with a genuine strong reason to try to control those sexual problems and urges),as with other celibate demanded priesthoods I am only one voice crying out to stop the suffering a weird sect and its men/woman paedophiles,homosexual,lesbian and adulterers,has put on individual and multipul lives for decades? WHY please ask did leitch arrange such expensive defence for Barry and nothing for the other 12 known victims? Ungodly dishonest injustice. Some folk choose to help others of various needs they suffer,I choose to warn parents to be more vigilant as they mix with those of unatural unbiblical demanded lifestyle. 1 Cor,9,vs 5/6 just a little sample of those they claim to be as?

[Deleted]

Magpie,this is only a small percentage of 2x2 members. Most of them are good and decent people. The percentage is the same as the general human race, and you or I will never change that. You keep refering to EB and CC. They have been dealt with by law, so lets move on. The decision of the court is final, and we have to respect that.

Don't let the topic become an obsession, and you miss the better things in life.

[Mary]

The majority of 2x2s have been denying it exists among the workers and have blamed the victims. Many still don't believe it. Those who speak out about it have been like one crying in the wilderness. Most workers who have been in charge have just moved the offender so he can do it again. It is only the last couple of years since people like Magpie have been speaking out on this board and the police becoming involved have they even bothered to do anything. The workers have had little empathy for the victims who they would have preferred to have moved on so they can forget the mess. The victims have had no voice until this board.

[Deleted]

Sadly, some people have become paranoid about it, and their concerns are unfounded. The whole situation has become a little exaggerated. There are greater problems out there, and always will be. Just be wise and careful.

[magpie]

HI Mary, Redback spends to much time on the toilet seat ? Troublemaker,paronoid,exagerated,greater problems out there,just be wise and careful,etc he (redback says of me)I know what paronoia is as a kid ^&*scared of worker"s",yes bigger troubles out there,BUT we are talking about SAVING little children from the clutches of a worldwide cancerous paedophile section that for decades have made children later as adults become so damaged that,ostracisms,causing mental health issues to pop up including suicides. CLEAN THIS UP?,NO IT WONT HAPPEN BECAUSE WITHIN THERE IS TO MUCH AND A VOICE WITHIN WILL REVEAL SO MANY MORE-WORLDWIDE.So redback if you want to avoid this covered up crime problem as the Roman Catholics take it on your heart and soul-you must support them if you dont try and stop or reveal more,or not support the young current victims,last 2 Victorian Bishpos havnt,"BUT" there is another additional story here.

[magpie]

Has redback ever thought about what this does to 2x2 parents and siblings of the perpetrators

[Deleted]

magpie, get a life, suck it up.

[snow]

Dec 8, 2014 19:05:02 GMT -5 @redback said:

magpie, get a life, suck it up.

This is totally uncalled for. Have you been sexually abused?

[Deleted]

The problem is that the more people wallow in it, the more mud you get.

[Roselyn T]

Redback, have you spoken to the children that were abused years ago & asked them how they feel ? As to things being exaggerated, well wow ! Open your eyes, look around & start talking to people ! You may find the so called perfect 2x2's are not so perfect after all, but it still doesn't stop then putting other churches down for what they do themselves !

So instead of telling Magpie to "suck it up" maybe YOU should do something pro-active by supporting those who want CSA to be dealt with by the Law & stop covering up for so called "servants of God "

[Deleted]

Roselyn, CSA is being dealt with by the Law, ie. EB and CC in Victoria. That is the right place for action not TMB. But don't as magpie has done label every other Worker in Victoria, and even the World in some of his posts. This is wrong, so wrong as much of his information is not correct.

[rational]

Dec 8, 2014 5:59:03 GMT -5 @redback said:

Sadly, some people have become paranoid about it, and their concerns are unfounded. The whole situation has become a little exaggerated. There are greater problems out there, and always will be. Just be wise and careful.

A situation like this is known as moral panic.
Moral panic related to sexual abuse.

[mdm]

Dec 9, 2014 4:20:56 GMT -5 @redback said:

Roselyn, CSA is being dealt with by the Law, ie. EB and CC in Victoria. That is the right place for action not TMB. But don't as magpie has done label every other Worker in Victoria, and even the World in some of his posts. This is wrong, so wrong as much of his information is not correct.

If it weren't for Wings and TMB, there are couple of sexual offenders (one of them CSA offender) who would probably still be in the work in the US. 
As far as Australia goes, does it concern you that one man has recently lost his place in the work because of expressing concerns over the handling of CSA issues on the part of the ministry? Does it concern you that Graham Thompson was criticized for saying that the response of the ministry in Victoria "has been inadequate"? 

If the workers in Victoria and elsewhere want to be seen as having integrity, they need to speak up for what is right, and not just watch in acquiescence as Steve Schultzes and Graham Thompsons are silenced and forced out of the ministry. I am eagerly waiting for that to happen.

[mdm]

Dec 9, 2014 3:06:40 GMT -5 Roselyn T said:

Redback, have you spoken to the children that were abused years ago & asked them how they feel ? As to things being exaggerated, well wow ! Open your eyes, look around & start talking to people ! You may find the so called perfect 2x2's are not so perfect after all, but it still doesn't stop then putting other churches down for what they do themselves !

So instead of telling Magpie to "suck it up" maybe YOU should do something pro-active by supporting those who want CSA to be dealt with by the Law & stop covering up for so called "servants of God "

A comment left on Wings:
"This monster is growing in part because so many are in denial and pretending that it doesn’t happen. The rest of us are dangerous. I don’t hold a lot of hope for the letter writers – I sent every worker on our staff and others a copy of Graham Thompson’s sermon. I heard not a word from our overseer, 3 or 4 responded from the dozens that I sent. The amazing part was that none of them had seen it until I sent it!
I do know that if every worker in our country goes wrong, there is no excuse for me. But I cannot keep quiet when children’s lives are at stake. Unfortunately, only the experienced know the devastation that goes on.
And so we need to continue to be open about the subject and have the courage to confront the issue. It’s hard…"

Or how about this one:
"This letter is really great. Unfortunately, my similar pleas rendered no result except an admonition that I could not return to the meetings until I had resolved the issue of my “hard heart”. So far, my heart is still hard against those who prey on children and those who protect them. I’ve found a lovely personal relationship with Jesus at my local church, and don’t plan on going back any time soon. May God move the hearts of the workers who receive this to right these wrongs."

We ourselves were advised to keep our eyes on Jesus, stop reading on the Internet about these issues, drop the issue, and just "trust" the ministry. Being "pro-active" on the fellowship level is acceptable. 

[mdm]

Dec 7, 2014 20:31:43 GMT -5 @redback said:

Magpie,this is only a small percentage of 2x2 members. Most of them are good and decent people. The percentage is the same as the general human race, and you or I will never change that. You keep refering to EB and CC. They have been dealt with by law, so lets move on. The decision of the court is final, and we have to respect that.

Don't let the topic become an obsession, and you miss the better things in life.

Goodness and decency should go beyond not doing what is wrong and include speaking out for those who have been harmed and against perpetrators and their enablers. 

Sadly, the doctrine of quiet obedience to the ministry and of turning a blind eye on wrongs puts a limit on goodness and decency, and creates out of "good" people accomplices and enablers.

[snow]

Dec 9, 2014 4:20:56 GMT -5 @redback said:

Roselyn, CSA is being dealt with by the Law, ie. EB and CC in Victoria. That is the right place for action not TMB. But don't as magpie has done label every other Worker in Victoria, and even the World in some of his posts. This is wrong, so wrong as much of his information is not correct.

while I agree he/she goes about it in an unfortunate way, if you have never been abused and damaged from that abuse, you really don't have a clue what it's like to be Magpie. It's pretty obvious that there was a lot of damage done and there is no time limit on when a person heals from that. I am a survivor of rape at age 17 and I still have issues and I'm now close to 60. Things do not just magically go away because it would be better for us or because we want them to. Have some compassion for magpie and quit trying to downplay the seriousness of what is happening or the damage that has been done, and from what I have seen on here, continues to be done to children.

Saying things like 'suck it up' are totally inappropriate imo. Yes they are likely missing the 'better things in life'. Do you really think it's just something you can turn off with the flick of a switch? They were abused, damaged from that abuse, and haven't been able to heal completely, or maybe not at all. If this was you, don't you think you would be trying to do everything you could to prevent this happening to another young child? They are trying to make sure other children can enjoy 'the better things in life'. What are you doing?

[Deleted]

Snow, you miss the point I have been trying to make. Just because of the transgressions of a few, you don't lash out at everybody. Magpie several times posted a list of Victorian Workers who were well known to me, and they were good and decent people. Thank God that Admin had the good sense to remove those posts. Many of those Workers are dead, and not able to defend their reputation. I find it very hurtful and offensive when good people are falsly accused.

We all have bad experiences in life, I have had a few, but to help others and ourselves, we have to suck it up.

[snow]

Dec 9, 2014 14:43:27 GMT -5 @redback said:

Snow, you miss the point I have been trying to make. Just because of the transgressions of a few, you don't lash out at everybody. Magpie several times posted a list of Victorian Workers who were well known to me, and they were good and decent people. Thank God that Admin had the good sense to remove those posts. Many of those Workers are dead, and not able to defend their reputation. I find it very hurtful and offensive when good people are falsly accused.

We all have bad experiences in life, I have had a few, but to help others and ourselves, we have to suck it up.

I do understand the concern, but unless you have had the experience Magpie has had, you are not in a position to judge him and tell him to 'suck it up'. That does more damage on top of what has already been done. Most people would understand that and make allowances. You really don't need to defend them if you really think about it. People are quite capable of forming their own opinions if they know them and if they don't, it really doesn't matter what they think, does it.

[magpie]

Hey I am O.K. I have taken on a campaign to "Protect the children of a sect followers". Some people from family tradition vote left wing or right wing,feel redback wont see ever why I make a noise?
The most radical ministery of an era,and it still crosses peoples thought barriers as radical 2000 years later WAS JESUS,He taught amongst/across, traditions,cultural,religious,gender,class,pharasee,false teachings,gods(idols) BARRIERS.He was/is radical,I could sit back and water down the true impact of the problems,as I mention,of a demanded celibate priesthoods and ministries an unatural unbiblical situation,NEVER have I embraced ALL as sexual paedophile deviants,NO,but if the turn a blind eye and realise they could be kicked out of their vocation as the young preacher in South Australia,if they try and push this problem,of an individual or a collective. Can they put themselves through the pain,gossip or shame placed on them as the South Australian worker faced. My christian life is strong that gives me strength to keep up this fight/campaign for child protection,it wont cease,until I do.

[Deleted]

Magpies are annoying when they warble too much. I have had them swoop me.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2014 19:48:53 GMT -5 magpie said:

For 50 years of my fathers life he saught change. He would speak a lot to those on the 2x2 fringe,the ones outside the inner circle.

I remember Father Magpie. Was very successful in the 50's, split the Church in half, in Victoria.

You say I don't know why you make a noise, but I do. Like Father, like Son.
I am glad that you are aware that it is only noise.

By the way, what happened to colac and jscc1. Did magpie kill them off??.

[rational]

Dec 9, 2014 17:22:38 GMT -5 magpie said:

Hey I am O.K. I have taken on a campaign to "Protect the children of a sect followers".

I have read your posts and I an unsure of your campaign. Exactly what is it that you are doing that you feel will be a solution?

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2014 17:22:38 GMT -5 magpie said:

Hey I am O.K. I have taken on a campaign to "Protect the children of a sect followers". Some people from family tradition vote left wing or right wing,feel redback wont see ever why I make a noise?
The most radical ministery of an era,and it still crosses peoples thought barriers as radical 2000 years later WAS JESUS,He taught amongst/across, traditions,cultural,religious,gender,class,pharasee,false teachings,gods(idols) BARRIERS.He was/is radical,I could sit back and water down the true impact of the problems,as I mention,of a demanded celibate priesthoods and ministries an unatural unbiblical situation,NEVER have I embraced ALL as sexual paedophile deviants,NO,but if the turn a blind eye and realise they could be kicked out of their vocation as the young preacher in South Australia,if they try and push this problem,of an individual or a collective. Can they put themselves through the pain,gossip or shame placed on them as the South Australian worker faced. My christian life is strong that gives me strength to keep up this fight/campaign for child protection,it wont cease,until I do.

you seem to keep suggesting celibacy equals pedophilia and that would be wrong... 

[rational]

Dec 9, 2014 21:32:39 GMT -5 @wally said:

you seem to keep suggesting celibacy equals pedophilia and that would be wrong... 

Or that there is a higher rate among the celibate. Or that there is a higher rate within the F&W.

None of these ideas are supported.

[magpie]

Wally & Rationale,,"NEVER ALL?" many go into priesthood and Irvinism type of situations believing they can do something for God,with RCCs it is often because of justice and welfare. NO not all BUT it is and proven a place to try and avoid or hide for those who feel they would like to be taken away from their sexual problems or fears,quite genuine in trying/hoping to avoid their unatural cravings,many it is hoped that their vows and promises before God keeps them strong and clean. But paedophelia is a mental disorder,takes a lot of support psychiatric,medical,counsilling to control often sadly to no avail As 2x2s have no internal counsilling/pastoring support many will just drop their early desire to refrain from their overiding inherent problem,and homosexuallity/lesbianism is NOT paedophilia,that is genetic. So dont tell me to get a life,I have good one, but just want to warn people bound to an unatural ministry demand to please be aware,of "POSSIBLE" criminal predaters,amongst them. Had you picked out any or suprised when nice blokes were charged,you can never tell them?