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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 16:29:20 GMT -5
well the greatest mercy i have ever heard of was God sending Christ to die for us on the cross that we might have eternal life instead of damnation. he did not say that life would be easy all of the time or even most of the time with that mercy being given. this verse comes to mind though: Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. "Hell & damnation" does not go with "great mercy". hell and damnation is the just punishment for sin. the great mercy would come long(or in some cases shortly) before that if accepted....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 16:38:19 GMT -5
HELL ISN’T AS popular as it used to be.
Over the last 20 years, the number of Americans who believe in the fiery down under has dropped from 71 percent to 58 percent. Heaven, by contrast, fares much better and, among Christians, remains an almost universally accepted concept.
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 16:40:37 GMT -5
"Hell & damnation" does not go with "great mercy". hell and damnation is the just punishment for sin. the great mercy would come long(or in some cases shortly) before that if accepted.... According to the Bible, hell and damnation was part of the plan. It was gods choice to add hell and damnation, just like it was his choice to put that tree in the garden of Eden. Great mercy doesn’t plant a poison tree in the kids garden.
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 16:45:19 GMT -5
HELL ISN’T AS popular as it used to be. Over the last 20 years, the number of Americans who believe in the fiery down under has dropped from 71 percent to 58 percent. Heaven, by contrast, fares much better and, among Christians, remains an almost universally accepted concept. I find hell and damnation to be biblically accurate, BUT if that story is true, it's doesn't make the christian god a nice guy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 16:47:48 GMT -5
HELL ISN’T AS popular as it used to be. Over the last 20 years, the number of Americans who believe in the fiery down under has dropped from 71 percent to 58 percent. Heaven, by contrast, fares much better and, among Christians, remains an almost universally accepted concept. guess what, those that don't think there is a hell are in for a helluva surprise when hell or later the fiery lake appears before them...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 16:51:10 GMT -5
hell and damnation is the just punishment for sin. the great mercy would come long(or in some cases shortly) before that if accepted.... According to the Bible, hell and damnation was part of the plan. It was gods choice to add hell and damnation, just like it was his choice to put that tree in the garden of Eden. Great mercy doesn’t plant a poison tree in the kids garden. is not choice(free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way?
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 16:58:43 GMT -5
According to the Bible, hell and damnation was part of the plan. It was gods choice to add hell and damnation, just like it was his choice to put that tree in the garden of Eden. Great mercy doesn’t plant a poison tree in the kids garden. is not choice(free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way? You are right, it's about a "choice". If I were a god, I could have designed a universe; without sin, hell and damnation. A universe where everyone goes to heaven. But the god of the bible "choose differently" where the many get hell and damnation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 17:04:26 GMT -5
is not choice(free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way? You are right, it's about a "choice". If I were a god, I could have designed a universe; without sin, hell and damnation. A universe where everyone goes to heaven. But the god of the bible "choose differently" where the many get hell and damnation. hmmm that would be a fairly robot like existence wouldn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 17:18:26 GMT -5
The Old Testament was full of sadism. It was a way of life. Christ tried to change that by teaching Humanism. Unfortunately it was to his own peril, the World was not ready for the change. The modern World is becoming less sadistic which has to be a good thing. Sadism is not good for the mind, causes depression. Pleasant happy thoughts are better for your health.
Sadists derive pleasure or enjoyment from another person's pain, yet new research shows that sadistic behavior ultimately deprives the sadists of happiness. People with sadistic personality traits tend to be aggressive, but only enjoy their aggressive acts if it harms their victims.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 13, 2021 17:20:18 GMT -5
According to the Bible, hell and damnation was part of the plan. It was gods choice to add hell and damnation, just like it was his choice to put that tree in the garden of Eden. Great mercy doesn’t plant a poison tree in the kids garden. is not choice (free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way? If wally you believe that "choice (free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way," -than why is it so difficult for you to realize that you are not showing any "mercy" to a woman who is pregnant if you force on her the way you think?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 17:23:47 GMT -5
is not choice (free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way? If wally you believe that "choice (free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way," -than why is it so difficult for you to realize that you are not showing any "mercy" to a woman who is pregnant if you force on her the way you think?so allowing free will means do nothing when murder occurs? interesting stance...NOT...
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 13, 2021 17:46:12 GMT -5
If wally you believe that "choice (free will) a form of mercy instead of forcing everyone to do it his way," -than why is it so difficult for you to realize that you are not showing any "mercy" to a woman who is pregnant if you force on her the way you think? so allowing free will means do nothing when murder occurs? interesting stance...NOT... Ah, but wally, it is you who keeps yelling abortion is "murder" and keep trying to force everyone else do it your way?
You have shown yourself to have not shown any "mercy."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 17:54:15 GMT -5
so allowing free will means do nothing when murder occurs? interesting stance...NOT... Ah, but wally, it is you who keeps yelling abortion is "murder" and keep trying to force everyone else do it your way?
You have shown yourself to have not shown any "mercy." then i suggest you start a serious public campaign to release all murders, rapists and violent types from prison starting tomorrow, we want to be "merciful" right?
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 17:55:24 GMT -5
You are right, it's about a "choice". If I were a god, I could have designed a universe; without sin, hell and damnation. A universe where everyone goes to heaven. But the god of the bible "choose differently" where the many get hell and damnation. hmmm that would be a fairly robot like existence wouldn't it? Supposedly god had total freedom to design any universe he wanted. He had a choice to not make a robot like existence. The "robot like existence" song. " Trust and obey, for there's no other way"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 18:01:23 GMT -5
hmmm that would be a fairly robot like existence wouldn't it? Supposedly god had total freedom to design any universe he wanted. He had a choice to not make a robot like existence. The "robot like existence" song. " Trust and obey, for there's no other way" the choice of "no free will" vs "free will" which do you think God wants and which do you think a human would choose?
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 18:12:24 GMT -5
the choice of "no free will" vs "free will" which do you think God wants and which do you think a human would choose? Since I don't believe there are any gods, I have to answer on what the bible says about this. I read god mainly watches the fight between good and evil, so he is for "free will" on earth and in heaven, but not for free will in hell. Most people like free will. The bigger question about free will is, did the god of the bible have free will to create a universe without evil? In a world without evil, humans could still have free will, and choose between the most good choice. Wouldn't a world with no evil and sin be a more perfect world? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
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Post by Gene on Feb 13, 2021 22:58:43 GMT -5
You are right, it's about a "choice". If I were a god, I could have designed a universe; without sin, hell and damnation. A universe where everyone goes to heaven. But the god of the bible "choose differently" where the many get hell and damnation. hmmm that would be a fairly robot like existence wouldn't it? Not any more so than what your existence in heaven will be like. Or do you think you'll still have free will in heaven?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:12:47 GMT -5
the choice of "no free will" vs "free will" which do you think God wants and which do you think a human would choose? Since I don't believe there are any gods, I have to answer on what the bible says about this. I read god mainly watches the fight between good and evil, so he is for "free will" on earth and in heaven, but not for free will in hell. Most people like free will. The bigger question about free will is, did the god of the bible have free will to create a universe without evil? In a world without evil, humans could still have free will, and choose between the most good choice. Wouldn't a world with no evil and sin be a more perfect world? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.i'm not so sure that we are understanding the real meaning for that verse. its to my understanding evil is simply the opposite of everything God is. so i am not so sure that it would be considered "created" in that sense. actually that evil free and sinless world will sorta happen at the end of time. evil will still exist but it will be locked up in the fiery lake never to be seen again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:13:32 GMT -5
hmmm that would be a fairly robot like existence wouldn't it? Not any more so than what your existence in heaven will be like. Or do you think you'll still have free will in heaven? i'm not sure i have an answer for that....
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Post by Dan on Feb 13, 2021 23:21:15 GMT -5
the choice of "no free will" vs "free will" which do you think God wants and which do you think a human would choose? The bigger question about free will is, did the god of the bible have free will to create a universe without evil? In a world without evil, humans could still have free will, and choose between the most good choice. Wouldn't a world with no evil and sin be a more perfect world?
God did create a universe without evil (Genesis 1:31).
Adam & Eve did have 'free will' in a world without evil, and they chose to know evil.
Evil is the result of sin, which is why this fallen world is far from perfect.
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 23:23:46 GMT -5
Not any more so than what your existence in heaven will be like. Or do you think you'll still have free will in heaven? i'm not sure i have an answer for that.... Doesn’t the Bible say the angels in heaven revolted and were cast out? Was it their choice, or was it gods choice?
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Post by xna on Feb 13, 2021 23:25:34 GMT -5
Since I don't believe there are any gods, I have to answer on what the bible says about this. I read god mainly watches the fight between good and evil, so he is for "free will" on earth and in heaven, but not for free will in hell. Most people like free will. The bigger question about free will is, did the god of the bible have free will to create a universe without evil? In a world without evil, humans could still have free will, and choose between the most good choice. Wouldn't a world with no evil and sin be a more perfect world? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.i'm not so sure that we are understanding the real meaning for that verse. its to my understanding evil is simply the opposite of everything God is. so i am not so sure that it would be considered "created" in that sense. actually that evil free and sinless world will sorta happen at the end of time. evil will still exist but it will be locked up in the fiery lake never to be seen again. Who then created those thing that are opposite to god?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:37:29 GMT -5
If it is good it was God, if it is evil it was the Devil. They have the answers to everything. Very creative to suit every situation. They don't have to think, an answer has been created for them, puts their minds at rest, saves brain power.
In any worthwhile story you must have a Good Guy and a Bad Guy. You can't have a Good Guy doing bad things, or a Bad Guy doing good things.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:50:18 GMT -5
i'm not sure i have an answer for that.... Doesn’t the Bible say the angels in heave revolted and were cast out? Was it their choice, or was it gods choice? its to my understanding that there are 3 heavens. there is the past heaven before Adam, there is the now heaven since Adam till the end of time, then there will be the new heaven new earth and new jerusalem for the future endless time. i can't say with any certainty that any of them are alike or operate in exactly the same way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:51:38 GMT -5
i'm not so sure that we are understanding the real meaning for that verse. its to my understanding evil is simply the opposite of everything God is. so i am not so sure that it would be considered "created" in that sense. actually that evil free and sinless world will sorta happen at the end of time. evil will still exist but it will be locked up in the fiery lake never to be seen again. Who then created those thing that are opposite to god? they may have always been....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 23:57:19 GMT -5
Wally will never admit like the rest of us that he has no idea, it is only guess work at best. Just comes up with evasive answers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 0:05:48 GMT -5
Wally will never admit like the rest of us that he has no idea, it is only guess work at best. Just comes up with evasive answers. wow! i just got done saying to someone else "i not sure i have an answer for that" and "i can't say with any certainty" just a few posts back...it must be past your bed time or you've lost some serious reading skills...
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 14, 2021 0:09:07 GMT -5
The bigger question about free will is, did the god of the bible have free will to create a universe without evil? In a world without evil, humans could still have free will, and choose between the most good choice. Wouldn't a world with no evil and sin be a more perfect world? God did create a universe without evil (Genesis 1:31).
Adam & Eve did have 'free will' in a world without evil, and they chose to know evil.
Evil is the result of sin, which is why this fallen world is far from perfect.
I may be wrong but I took xna's post to mean "did the god of the bible, HIMSELF, have free will to create a universe without evil?"
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