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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 0:25:10 GMT -5
Who then created those thing that are opposite to god? they may have always been.... Sorry but that looks like an evasive answer to me. Am aware that I am not as clever as you Wally, but not completely non compos yet. Bit early for bed, still have evening chores to do. 3 hours of work before I turn in.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2021 0:29:24 GMT -5
Doesn’t the Bible say the angels in heave revolted and were cast out? Was it their choice, or was it gods choice? its to my understanding that there are 3 heavens. there is the past heaven before Adam, there is the now heaven since Adam till the end of time, then there will be the new heaven new earth and new jerusalem for the future endless time. i can't say with any certainty that any of them are alike or operate in exactly the same way. What about the 7th heaven?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 0:43:25 GMT -5
its to my understanding that there are 3 heavens. there is the past heaven before Adam, there is the now heaven since Adam till the end of time, then there will be the new heaven new earth and new jerusalem for the future endless time. i can't say with any certainty that any of them are alike or operate in exactly the same way. What about the 7th heaven? not in christianity, never mentioned in the OT even though some say judaism talks about it. its in isalm and hinduism though or are you talking about the TV show?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 0:49:01 GMT -5
The Old Testament was full of sadism. It was a way of life. Christ tried to change that by teaching Humanism. Unfortunately it was to his own peril, the World was not ready for the change. The modern World is becoming less sadistic which has to be a good thing. Sadism is not good for the mind, causes depression. Pleasant happy thoughts are better for your health. Sadists derive pleasure or enjoyment from another person's pain, yet new research shows that sadistic behavior ultimately deprives the sadists of happiness. People with sadistic personality traits tend to be aggressive, but only enjoy their aggressive acts if it harms their victims. Christ never taught atheistic humanism at the earliest atheistic humanism arrived around 1300/1400AD just a TAD late i believe...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 0:51:50 GMT -5
they may have always been.... Sorry but that looks like an evasive answer to me. Am aware that I am not as clever as you Wally, but not completely non compos yet. Bit early for bed, still have evening chores to do. 3 hours of work before I turn in. if you had looked at the post XNA was responding to my follow up answer would make a little more sense. so if its not a sleep issue it must be a reading issue...
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2021 0:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2021 1:13:41 GMT -5
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 6:07:47 GMT -5
God did create a universe without evil (Genesis 1:31).
Adam & Eve did have 'free will' in a world without evil, and they chose to know evil.
Evil is the result of sin, which is why this fallen world is far from perfect.
I may be wrong but I took xna's post to mean "did the god of the bible, HIMSELF, have free will to create a universe without evil?"
Correct
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Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2021 11:49:35 GMT -5
Doesn’t the Bible say the angels in heaven revolted and were cast out? Was it their choice, or was it gods choice?
Yes (Revelation 12:4)... It was the angels choice to rebel, it was God's choice to throw them out.
Who then created those thing that are opposite to god?
Nothing creates but God.. But free will allows opposition to God, who used that opposition to give us the choice between good and evil... That's how I see it.
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Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2021 12:00:40 GMT -5
I may be wrong but I took xna's post to mean "did the god of the bible, HIMSELF, have free will to create a universe without evil?"
Correct
Absolutely, God has the freedom to do whatever He wants, but in the big picture its always righteous, that's His character. Remember that what exist now was not God's original creation, He separated himself from sin and this fallen world. Evil emanated from sin (disobedience to God), its used to teach us good from bad & right from wrong.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 12:23:12 GMT -5
Absolutely, God has the freedom to do whatever He wants, but in the big picture its always righteous, that's His character. Remember that what exist now was not God's original creation, He separated himself from sin and this fallen world. Evil emanated from sin (disobedience to God), its used to teach us good from bad & right from wrong.
I would have thought an all powerful and all knowing god who is free to do as he liked would have made a universe free of evil. Genesis 6:5-6
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
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Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2021 12:53:52 GMT -5
Absolutely, God has the freedom to do whatever He wants, but in the big picture its always righteous, that's His character. Remember that what exist now was not God's original creation, He separated himself from sin and this fallen world. Evil emanated from sin (disobedience to God), its used to teach us good from bad & right from wrong.
I would have thought an all powerful and all knowing god would have made a universe free of evil. Genesis 6:5-6
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g; If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built. Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world" for a reason. His kingdom will come when His will is done, but that first requires separating the wheat from the chaff. That's when we'll be free of evil.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 13:05:33 GMT -5
I would have thought an all powerful and all knowing god would have made a universe free of evil. Genesis 6:5-6
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g; If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built. Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world" for a reason. His kingdom will come when His will is done, but that first requires separating the wheat from the chaff. That's when we'll be free of evil.
- An all powerful and all knowing god would have known the man he created would tear up the house, and so he could have not included that design flaw. - You are making a special case to exclude "sin" from "by him were all things created". Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
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Post by Dan on Feb 14, 2021 14:02:19 GMT -5
Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g; If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built. Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world" for a reason. His kingdom will come when His will is done, but that first requires separating the wheat from the chaff. That's when we'll be free of evil.
- An all powerful and all knowing god would have known the man he created would tear up the house, and so he could have not included that design flaw. - You are making a special case to exclude "sin" from "by him were all things created". Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Free moral agency would not exist if that design was removed, it was never a flaw.
When it comes to our 'free will', God is not omniscient.. "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." (Genesis 22:12). This suggest that God did not know whether Abraham would sacrifice Issac. And consider John 3:15, "whosoever believeth" is an open question. If God already knew who would believe and who would not, then this whole experiment in the flesh is an exercise in futility. Why not skip it and go straight to judgement?
As long as God is omnipotent, then what can be known is not set in stone. A living, active, and involved God can change what otherwise may have been.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 14:30:25 GMT -5
As long as God is omnipotent, then what can be known is not set in stone. A living, active, and involved God can change what otherwise may have been.
That makes god able but not will to prevent evil.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 16:07:39 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 14, 2021 16:14:52 GMT -5
I would have thought an all powerful and all knowing god would have made a universe free of evil. Genesis 6:5-6
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g;
If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built.
...but Dan!
Even if it were god who was the builder the "perfect house," (abode) -which was Eden, -it was not Adam or Eve who planted the tree!
The "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" - was placed there by "GOD! "
So it would be like the builder of this so called "perfect house" purposely built a flaw into it somewhere!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 17:27:02 GMT -5
Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g;
If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built.
...but Dan!
Even if it were god who was the builder the "perfect house," (abode) -which was Eden, -it was not Adam or Eve who planted the tree!
The "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil" - was placed there by "GOD! "
So it would be like the builder of this so called "perfect house" purposely built a flaw into it somewhere! well it could be said that there are a number of flaws built into a house like: 1. if you throw yourself through the front window you could get cut up pretty bad or even die. 2. if you go to an upper story and throw yourself off of it odd's are there is going to be some serious damage or even death. 3. if the house has a fireplace that can have some innate properties that could lead to everything burning down burning you out or even killing you etc etc. God never promised that the garden or elsewhere would be a comfy rubber room with no sharp edges.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2021 18:07:06 GMT -5
How LDS Church investment fund made $6 billion in pandemic What did the LDS Church do to earn that $6 billion? It came at the expense of the millions who didn't get to spend the money for themselves during the pandemic.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 18:22:42 GMT -5
How LDS Church investment fund made $6 billion in pandemic What did the LDS Church do to earn that $6 billion? It came at the expense of the millions who didn't get to spend the money for themselves during the pandemic. Not withstanding all the bad things with the LDS, it is impressive what they have built in UT. They seem to be a hard working lot. The Mormon Church reportedly also owns over 1 million acres in continental America. Tax free businesses have a big advantage.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2021 18:27:19 GMT -5
What did the LDS Church do to earn that $6 billion? It came at the expense of the millions who didn't get to spend the money for themselves during the pandemic. Not withstanding all the bad things with the LDS, it is impressive what they have built in UT. They seem to be a hard working lot. The Mormon Church reportedly also owns over 1 million acres in continental America. Tax free businesses have a big advantage. It's not so much about "stealing" other people's money as it is about "reserving the water supply" from those down-stream.
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Post by xna on Feb 14, 2021 18:40:47 GMT -5
Egypt Is struggling with how to engage with non Muslim ideas.
If you don’t think like us Muslims then you must be crazy. LOL
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Post by xna on Feb 15, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5
Follow the money
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Post by xna on Feb 15, 2021 10:28:06 GMT -5
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Post by xna on Feb 15, 2021 10:36:01 GMT -5
A little history
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Feb 15, 2021 19:54:11 GMT -5
What about the 7th heaven? not in christianity, never mentioned in the OT even though some say judaism talks about it. its in isalm and hinduism though or are you talking about the TV show? Christ was prophesied many times in the OT. OT concealed. NT revealed NT fullfillment of Christ prophecy Typolgy- NT is typology for OT. End of time typology happening now Jesus is returning Sabmyk has woken up ARe they connected?
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Post by shushy on Feb 15, 2021 20:27:05 GMT -5
I would have thought an all powerful and all knowing god would have made a universe free of evil. Genesis 6:5-6
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.Evil emanates from sin, and sin is the one thing that God never created. e.g; If someone built you a perfect house and you moved in and tore it up, its no refection on the good house that the builder built. Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world" for a reason. His kingdom will come when His will is done, but that first requires separating the wheat from the chaff. That's when we'll be free of evil.
wheat and chaff are being separated atm imo the evil is being removed from terra His Kingdom is within us
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Post by shushy on Feb 15, 2021 20:30:02 GMT -5
Biblically Three heavens. The first heaven is our atmosphere where we live and serve the Lord. It is where the Psalmist says, “the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches” (Psa. 104:12).
Within the spirit realm there are many dimensions
People(Christians non Christians) are freely speaking about this topic now
They weren't 20yrs ago
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